Something for all you Europeans

[cahult]

Even an agnostic believes in something.

I

[Faust]

quote:
BTW Einstien married his own cousin.

I... did... not... know that.  thats like *wrong* texas style      

 

quote:
he MADE UP the Lambda
(greek letter looks like an "L" kinda)

We've all played half life / done lots of maths / physics we know what Lambda is.    

 

quote:
Einstien did have an emotional crutch, he believed in God and it hindered him,  He was not willing to believe that the universe was finite, because that would mean GOD was finite so he MADE UP the Lambda

You think the universe is finite???     holy hell how do you know?  if you get to the edge do you hit a brick wall or do you just stop?  Can you *see* the edge or is it invisible?  Maybe once you cross the edge you like "loop back" to the other side?  Thats an....  interesting.... theory you have there.    

 

quote:
I thought every one did    .........honestly

Theres a difference between "believe" which implies fervent faith and "think is the most likely explanation."  When asked whether he believes in life on other planets Carl Sagan (physics dude I "believe") says : I don't know.   There just isnt enough judgement at this time.
When asked what his "gut feeling" was he replied:"I have no gut feeling - as a scientist gut feelings are for other people, really its ok to reserve judgement until all the evidence is in."  See dude even really really smart guys arent afraid to say "i dont know" even when talking about their chosen field.      

edit: judgement in the above "just isnt enough judgement at this time."  should read "evidence."  Gods putting words in my head again...  Kill the unbelievers!  Smite the heathen!  Eh he he.

[ July 29, 2003: Message edited by: Faust ]

[Faust]

Cahult, "rock on."  

 

quote:
Belief is good, organised religion is bad

You can distinguish between the two?  SHOCK!  HORROR!  

 

quote:
god works in mysterious ways.........
web page

Nice, good example of scientific theory iteration.     God is with me i see.  (cue shaft of light from heavens...)

[suselinux]

I believe that there was a man named Jesus who lived
along time ago, and so the story goes...ever seen the life of Brian?    

this an agnostic/athiest group, their international
if yer interested.....

Take a look here

Canadian link

[Faust]

Cold dark matter (a current theory) is very similar to phlogiston btw.  Doesn't mean it's wrong, but it also doesn't mean it's likely to be right.
Scientists observed "too much" gravitational effect on a space probe - they knew it wasnt gas leaking or anything that was slowing the probe down so what was it?  Well they looked pretty stupid with lots of "i dont knows" for a while, and then proposed cold dark matter - obviosuly something with a mass was affecting the probe.  Since they couldnt see it it had to be cold and dark.  So, the theory of "cold dark" matter holds that there is a lot of crap in the universe that we just cant see.  Kinda like God no?  Eh he he...
If anyone thinks im cynical about a sudden proposal of a new kind of matter to "explain the unexplained" (and thus save face) they're right - but to scientists credit they are trying to find other unexplained gravitational effects they can attribute to it.  Heh heh, CD matter sounds like a "catch all for unexplained crap" at the moment for me.     Also for anyone who thinks science can explain all I would like you to describe particle motion at a quantum level - AAMOF, tell me where that meson near my left ear is going - and then tell me how much it weighs.  

[Faust]

quote:
I believe that there was a man named Jesus who lived
along time ago, and so the story goes...ever seen the life of Brian?

Yep, great movie.  Singing, shoes, a dude called biggus dikkus, fucking great.  
And I already have a whole shelf of my bookcase back home devoted to humanist literature, I know what it is.  

[flap]

quote:I... did... not... know that. thats like *wrong* texas style

No it isn't.

[Stryker]

quote:Originally posted by flap:


No it isn't.

isn't wrong or isn't texas style?

texas is actually a pretty cool place. arkansas or alabama though... there's a different story. (me and my sterotypical self, never been there but i have to trust my elderlies)

[flap]

Isn't wrong.

[Laukev7]

My god (pun intended), that's a lot of replies to answer to.

 

quote: Up until recently Newtons theories of gravitation were believed to be absolute

Well, as you said, scientists know better today.

 

quote: Then there *are* no hypothes' (stupid plurals...) by this definition then, for it is impossible to prove something absolutely.

This is why I said 'beyond reasonable doubt'. As in 'agreed upon, taking into account the knowledge at present', without necessarily being absolutely right. By defition, a theory can be falsified (I don't remember who said that, and I can't be bothered to open my school manuals to look this up). A hypothesis is a abstract of a theory, or, in other words, a lead to follow.

 

quote: And there WERE experiments carried out - people burned stuff and hey it got lighter! (these were experiments performed and _believed_ by accepted scientists.) so OBVIOUSLY something had to be leaving the substance, and that something had to be phlogiston - you could even see it in the form of flames.

Obviously, and as you should know, this experiment has been misconducted, and the conclusion clearly begs the question. Again, scientific rigour has evolved since then.

 

quote: A good scientist will *never* believe in an absolute truth, because there are too many examples of what eventually happens to a "proof" later on down the line.

I know that. But the layman is a different story.

 

quote: Yes - there are severe logic errors in any claim that God is a)perfect and b)wants you to believe. But it is only if you try and claim the last two that you fuck up, not by claiming the existence of God.

Again, it depends on what you believe. What I said above debunks most religions, but does not imply that God does not exist in an other form -- even if 'His' only role was to make the Big Bang happen.

 

quote:
One WHOLE english lesson? Holy shit! Like a whole 40 minutes? Wow...  

Sorry, I meant a semester.

[Laukev7]

quote: Even an agnostic believes in something.

He believes in his own incertitude. And agnosticism is not the same as atheism, in that an agnostic does not totally dismiss the existence of God, as opposed to the atheist.

 

quote: Belief is good, organised religion is bad.

AOL.

 

quote: These are my five pillars of good:

Freedom of speech: not only what you want but how you want, minorities like bretons and basques should be entitled to this on even terms.

Freedom to work: not the way China interprets this, but to work as it fits YOU, to work with whatever you like, if you are like me, at your best at nights, you should be allowed to work with what you want to at nights.

Freedom of belief: If you want to believe in a tea cup as the saviour, do so.

Freedom of responsibility: You are free to take your own blame for the things you

[flap]

quote:Yes it is.

Why?

[Laukev7]

quote: Why?

Oh, I see. So you're making a short, bold assertion absolutely devoid of any intelligent argument, and you ask me to prove my point?

[flap]

How can I possibly argue why there is an absence of wrong-ness? I can't explain why it's not "wrong" to drink coffee, beyond asserting that there's nothing I'm aware of to suggest it is wrong.

[Laukev7]

I guess you could argue that nothing is 'wrong' in itself, if that's your point. You could even say that smoking isn't 'wrong'. It only damages your and other peoples' health. There's nothing 'wrong' in killing other people, either; you're just depriving other people from their life. Wrong has no meaning outside of interpretation.

But one could also say that everything is wrong until proven right, so your argument is only correct where 'innocent until proven guilty' is generally agreed upon.

Anyway.

How about the simple and well-documented fact that  incest generally does very bad things to its offsprings?