Blast and Mushroom cloud reported over North Korea

[skyman8081]

Google News Link

Authorities are saying that there is a POSSIBLE nuclear explosion in North Korea.

Only a blast, and a mushroom cloud ~2 mi. in diameter have been confirmed.

Keep in mind there was a possible false alarm on a nuclear explosion in 1979 with a South African nuke:
The 1979 Vela Incident
Many people think that it was lightning, and the South African government has denied ever setting off a nuclear weapon.

[ September 12, 2004: Message edited by: Agent Sauron ]

[worker201]

Any country that feels the need to defend itself from atomically active countries ought to have the right to develop its own nuclear program.   We (US) have no one but ourselves to blame.

[mobrien_12]

The North Korean leaders would be smoking crack to do an above ground nuke test... spread radiation all over their tiny little country and kill many poor N. Korean people and damage their DNA.    

I hope that it is a huge chemical explosion.

[mobrien_12]

quote:Originally posted by worker201:
Any country that feels the need to defend itself from atomically active countries ought to have the right to develop its own nuclear program.   We (US) have no one but ourselves to blame.

I cannot agree with you.  Nuclear weapons are real fist-of-God stuff.  Simply "feeling the need to defend itself" doesn't give one the right to play with that kind of power.  By that criterion, any paranoid dictator has the right to develop nuclear weapons.

The US did have the right to develop Nuclear Weapons (NW) because Hitler was developing them and damned well WOULD have used them.

[worker201]

But


How is that situation any different?

 

quote: The US did have the right to develop Nuclear Weapons (NW) because Hitler was developing them and damned well WOULD have used them

Compare:

North Korea did have the right to develop Nuclear Weapons (NW) because the US was developing them and damned well WOULD have used them.

Not that we would (hopefully), but I get the impression that North Koreans are very afraid of the US.  Are we scary?  I don't think so, but I do think that all countries ought to have the right to defend themselves as they see fit.  If playing on a level field with one's percieved enemy is required, then so be it.  I don't personally agree, and I would prefer they fly planes into tall buildings than develop nuclear weapons.  But it's a complicated world.

[solarismka]

quote:Originally posted by M. O'Brien:


I cannot agree with you.  Nuclear weapons are real fist-of-God stuff.  Simply "feeling the need to defend itself" doesn't give one the right to play with that kind of power.  By that criterion, any paranoid dictator has the right to develop nuclear weapons.

The US did have the right to develop Nuclear Weapons (NW) because Hitler was developing them and damned well WOULD have used them.

First, is there any proof that Hitler was developing nukes?

Second, America DID develop and USED them.  Thus America is a known threat.  As long as america can hold such weapons so can other countries.

Especially now that this current american regime IS invading other countries that have no defence.

[Refalm]

quote:Sauron: Blast and Mushroom cloud reported over south korea

Either this is a typo, or you didn't understand that the blast was located in the upper north of North Korea, near the Chinese border.

[skyman8081]

noticed and fixed said typo.

thanks for noticing that r3fa1m

[KernelPanic]

quote:Originally posted by kn0wn / BOB:

First, is there any proof that Hitler was developing nukes?

Yes, he had a Heavy Water factory.

[Stilly]

quote:Originally posted by M. O'Brien:


I cannot agree with you.  Nuclear weapons are real fist-of-God stuff.  Simply "feeling the need to defend itself" doesn't give one the right to play with that kind of power.  By that criterion, any paranoid dictator has the right to develop nuclear weapons.

The US did have the right to develop Nuclear Weapons (NW) because Hitler was developing them and damned well WOULD have used them.

i agree with you completely. letting everyone develope nukes sounds like a fair idea but its just too dangerous to let whoever wants to have one.

i thought everyone here hated nukes anyway.

[Xeen]

First of all, let me just say that I don't think it was a nuke test...of course I'm not 100% sure, but I just don't think it is.

However if it is a nuclear test (and we all know they have nukes), who can blame them?

George W. did in fact begin a dangerous new arms race. In 2001-2002 (started BEFORE 9/11), Dubya's administration pushed Congress into withdrawing from at least half a dozen arms-related international treaties. I'm too lazy to look for links right now, but I'll tell you one of those treaties was the ABM treaty with Russia. The entire world, including Republicans in the US begged them not to do this, but they went ahead and did it anyway.

The reason for Bush withdrawing from all these treaties was primarily because 90% of his administration and family are members and CEOs of weapons manufacturing companies (such as Carlyle for one).

Well...finally Bush said the fuck with everyone and withdraw from the treaties. Then other countries, but most importantly Russia said "ok, if you're gonna go make new weapons then so will we". So the Bush adminsitration went ahead and spent 80 billion of taxpayer dollars on developing a 20 year old missile defense system (a toy) that is absolutely useless today. In the meantime, Russia has developed a new ultrasonic type of missile (and they're almost done with yet another one) that is completely involnerable to any defense technologies we have. The department of defense and the military early this summer were forced to admit that yeah, our 80 billion dollar toy can't do anything to it (or for that matter to any other modern missiles used today).

What's more is the chain of countries involved in the arms race. If we develop new weapons, then so does Russia (and hey, they just did!). If Russia develops new weapons then so does China. And if China does, then so does North Korea.

In the meantime, North Korea has gotten even more incentive to start arming themselves. See, in January 2002 Dubya declared Iraq, Iran, and North Korea as "evildoers" part of an Axis of Evil. Nobody thought that he would actually go in and attack one of them without just and provable cause but hey - he did!

So now imagine you're the crazy Kil Jon Il of North Korea. You see the US creating new weapons. You see Russia creating new weapons. Then you hear yourself declared as an evildoer by one of the countries making weapons. And finally you see one of the 3 countries Bush declared as evildoers checked off on his list. Wouldn't you start developing your own nuclear arsenal?

[skyman8081]

The US intelligence service does have a network of Satellites that monitor for Nuclear explosions:

Vela Satellites

They look for the trademark, "double flash" characteristic ONLY of a nuclear explosion.  Of course, many people think that they have had a supposed false alarm on September 22, 1979, with an explosion in the Indian Ocean, either it was South Africa, Israel, or both.

[ September 12, 2004: Message edited by: Agent Sauron ]

[worker201]

The bullshit goes way beyond nuclear weapons.  A few months ago, there was an American treaty to limit arms dealing in North, South, and Central America.  Every country in the western hemisphere signed it, all the from Canada to Cuba to Jamaica to Chile to Trinidad and Tobago.  Every country, that is, except the United States.  US corporations make millions of dollars selling cut-rate weapons to whoever can come up with the cash.  Drug dealers, communist guerillas, fascist dictators, and anybody else who pays.  It would not be in our best interest to not sell guns to everyone.  Parse that sentence, would ya, see if you find any logic in there.  Because I can't.

Don't check your newspaper archives, either.  This story never appeared in any US papers - not even the AP would touch it.  However, it was front page news for weeks in South America.  I read about it in a Peruvian newspaper, which I was cruising for another point of view.
My guess is that these stories get skipped in the US because they make the US look ethically bad, even if it is for the corporate good.

There was a movie released on the internet, featuring Bush's famous state of the union address all recut for humor.  There was a line in there "we are creating an environment of terrorism."  Oh yes he is...

[Xeen]

quote:Originally posted by worker201:
The bullshit goes way beyond nuclear weapons.  A few months ago, there was an American treaty to limit arms dealing in North, South, and Central America.  Every country in the western hemisphere signed it, all the from Canada to Cuba to Jamaica to Chile to Trinidad and Tobago.  Every country, that is, except the United States.  US corporations make millions of dollars selling cut-rate weapons to whoever can come up with the cash.  Drug dealers, communist guerillas, fascist dictators, and anybody else who pays.  It would not be in our best interest to not sell guns to everyone.  Parse that sentence, would ya, see if you find any logic in there.  Because I can't.

Don't check your newspaper archives, either.  This story never appeared in any US papers - not even the AP would touch it.  However, it was front page news for weeks in South America.  I read about it in a Peruvian newspaper, which I was cruising for another point of view.
My guess is that these stories get skipped in the US because they make the US look ethically bad, even if it is for the corporate good.

There was a movie released on the internet, featuring Bush's famous state of the union address all recut for humor.  There was a line in there "we are creating an environment of terrorism."  Oh yes he is...

can you please find some link to the story about the arms dealing treaty? A link from South America would do as long as its in English...

[worker201]

Working on that - searching online archives in Spanish is kinda hard.  Registering for a site in Spanish is kinda hard, too.