Does this make me a criminal?

[Xeen]

I'm just wondering what people think...
Yesterday I went to see a new movie at the theaters. I paid a whole $10 for it. I liked the move and today I downloaded it to watch it again sometime because I think its not fair that I have to wait half a year or so before it's on DVD. Legally this makes me a criminal to the MPAA. But what about ethically? I did after all pay a ripoff price to see the movie.

[ November 02, 2003: Message edited by: xeen ]

[slave]

Copying published information is/should be a basic human right (in this case it may not be technically "published" but it is still open for public viewing, which fits the same moral criteria)  There is nothing wrong with it.  In fact it should be the cornerstone of law for any democratic society.  Corporations have no business telling you you can't copy this or that, on any basis.  Any damage they can calculate from such activity is false, because they are starting from false assumptions -- that they have the right to control aspects of your life that have no effect on them, and any attempt on your part to circumvent their control over you results in "losses" for them.  It is really the other way around.  You are the one whose rights are being infringed.  Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

[ November 02, 2003: Message edited by: Linux User #5225982375 ]

[Canadian Lover]

you're only a criminal if you sell the disc

[slave]

I'm a criminal because I watch encrypted DVD's on Linux... go figure.

[flap]

I'm afraid you stole that film. The film studio doesn't have it any more - why? Because it's in your house. I think you should give it back.

[slave]

quote:Originally posted by flap:
I'm afraid you stole that film. The film studio doesn't have it any more - why? Because it's in your house. I think you should give it back.

I also stole the Mona Lisa while on tour in France.  I have the negatives developing in my basement as we speak.

 

[Pissed_Macman]

quote:Originally posted by flap:
I'm afraid you stole that film. The film studio doesn't have it any more - why? Because it's in your house. I think you should give it back.

Exactly why this MPAA RIAA crap is bullshit.

[Laukev7]

quote:Originally posted by Linux User #5225982375:
Copying published information is/should be a basic human right (in this case it may not be technically "published" but it is still open for public viewing, which fits the same moral criteria)  There is nothing wrong with it.  In fact it should be the cornerstone of law for any democratic society.  Corporations have no business telling you you can't copy this or that, on any basis.  Any damage they can calculate from such activity is false, because they are starting from false assumptions -- that they have the right to control aspects of your life that have no effect on them, and any attempt on your part to circumvent their control over you results in "losses" for them.  It is really the other way around.  You are the one whose rights are being infringed.  Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

[ November 02, 2003: Message edited by: Linux User #5225982375 ]

For the last time, movies / music / paintings are NOT information. They are pieces of art. Don't compare apples and oranges.

[Xeen]

quote:Originally posted by Linux User #5225982375:
Copying published information is/should be a basic human right (in this case it may not be technically "published" but it is still open for public viewing, which fits the same moral criteria)  There is nothing wrong with it.  In fact it should be the cornerstone of law for any democratic society.  Corporations have no business telling you you can't copy this or that, on any basis.  Any damage they can calculate from such activity is false, because they are starting from false assumptions -- that they have the right to control aspects of your life that have no effect on them, and any attempt on your part to circumvent their control over you results in "losses" for them.  It is really the other way around.  You are the one whose rights are being infringed.  Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

If I want to see the movie that I paid for yesterday again, the MPAA expects me to go to the theater and pay again. So by downloading it, I'm not giving them the $10 that I would have otherwise. However, there are 2 flaws in this assumption:

1. Why should they assume that I would in fact go to the theater and see the movie a second time? Actually, I definately wouldn't. So they're not getting the money either way so I'm not imposing any financial damage on them.

2. What about when the DVD comes out? Say I go buy the DVD and loan it (loan, not copy) to some friend of mine. Then they are loosing the money that he/she would have otherwise paid to rent it. However it is not illegal to loan your possessions to your friends and they have no way of keeping you from doing so. So why should it be any different before the dvd is released?

And once again, how can they assume that my friend would even bother renting the dvd if I hadn't loaned it to him. Maybe he's poor and can't afford it. So again, they're not loosing any money. And actually in this case we're helping the MPAA by promoting a good movie. The more people who watch it, the more likely it is they will want to see a similar movie in the future.

[Xeen]

quote:Originally posted by Laukev7:


For the last time, movies / music / paintings are NOT information. They are pieces of art. Don't compare apples and oranges.

So what are you saying?

[flap]

quote:Originally posted by Laukev7:


For the last time, movies / music / paintings are NOT information. They are pieces of art. Don't compare apples and oranges.

They may not be functional in nature, but they still constitute information. But whether you call them 'information' or 'art' is irrelevant - the point still stands that they are all infintely replicable artefacts, and so (for non-commercial redistribution purposes at least) can be treated equally.

[slave]

quote:Originally posted by Laukev7:


For the last time, movies / music / paintings are NOT information. They are pieces of art. Don't compare apples and oranges.

From dictonary.reference.com:

in

[slave]

quote:Originally posted by flap:


They may not be functional in nature, but they still constitute information. But whether you call them 'information' or 'art' is irrelevant - the point still stands that they are all infintely replicable artefacts, and so (for non-commercial redistribution purposes at least) can be treated equally.

Good point, very true.  The fact that something is copy-able is the important thing to consider here.  If physical items were easily copied and there were laws against doing so, we would be having a discussion about that.

[slave]

quote:Originally posted by xeen:


If I want to see the movie that I paid for yesterday again, the MPAA expects me to go to the theater and pay again. So by downloading it, I'm not giving them the $10 that I would have otherwise. However, there are 2 flaws in this assumption:

1. Why should they assume that I would in fact go to the theater and see the movie a second time? Actually, I definately wouldn't. So they're not getting the money either way so I'm not imposing any financial damage on them.

2. What about when the DVD comes out? Say I go buy the DVD and loan it (loan, not copy) to some friend of mine. Then they are loosing the money that he/she would have otherwise paid to rent it. However it is not illegal to loan your possessions to your friends and they have no way of keeping you from doing so. So why should it be any different before the dvd is released?

And once again, how can they assume that my friend would even bother renting the dvd if I hadn't loaned it to him. Maybe he's poor and can't afford it. So again, they're not loosing any money. And actually in this case we're helping the MPAA by promoting a good movie. The more people who watch it, the more likely it is they will want to see a similar movie in the future.

All good points.  I especially like #2.  I'm glad you realize what brain-dead logic they use.  

[Laukev7]

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