All Things Microsoft > Microsoft Software
Muzzy, why does Windows rule?
Aloone_Jonez:
Qbasic was and still is a good newb language. I find it funney how everyone says assembly is so hard when I found it easier than C. perhaps Qbasic got me into lots of bad habits then when I tried C Qbasic had fucked with my brain! But as I'd been using assembly (MS-DOS debug.com) for some time in conjunction with Qbasic I didn't have that problem with assembly.
--- Quote ---Well I have a friend, I was in class with him last year when I was going to a "specialist school" which was filled with kids with no other school to goto, or just in need of more basic education. Mostly kids with no other school to goto however. I was there because of, well I was just sick of school and it was only part time. (Worst mistake ive ever made). Nonetheless the work was so damn easy I found myself helping my friend learn to read better (he was dyslexic as well), however he was a lot worse then you are.
--- End quote ---
I didn't go to a special school but I went to the reading centre on a daily basis, (a place in our town dedicated to helping children with dyslexia), and I had to have a classroom support. I did suffer some bullying though because this made me different to the other children.
jtpenrod:
Qbasic was and still is a good newb language.
An even better one is Python. Python has some advantages: it's object oriented, doesn't teach bad habits, can be learned quickly, like BASIC, it's interpreted so that you can see your mistakes right away. Furthermore, it's useful in its own right, not just something you learn on before moving onto something better.
I find it funney how everyone says assembly is so hard when I found it easier than C.
Good for you! Learning C/C++ is a real bitch if you aren't familiar with assembly. The big sticking point with C/C++ is pointers and references. It makes no sense if you have no idea what goes on "under the hood" when you do something like: int a= 10; Using indirection and aliases is done quite commonly in assembly, and becomes second nature, so that C isn't really that big of a deal.
perhaps Qbasic got me into lots of bad habits then when I tried C Qbasic had fucked with my brain!
It sure won't do much to prepare you for C. Again, Python does better in that regard, as its syntax is quite like that of C.
muzzy:
I personally find python to be an unholy language, not least because it uses indentation for flow control. Yea, and lisp constructs too. Some guys just can't learn a new language but have to submit patches to make it look like their favourite, and then some jerks don't have a vision over their language so they'll apply the said patches. Hmmmpphhhhh! Ohwell, at least we got python 3000, which will set things straight with expense of backwards compatibility.
Regarding C and C++, while pointers can be tough, they can be understood in the abstract sense without need to understand the lowlevel implementation. However, for debugging reasons it's always a good idea to understand how things are implemented, so strange bugs will make more sense. Anyway, in C++ you can code using only very little amount of pointers, so that's not quite a big as a stumbling block for a C++ programmer than it is to a C programmer.
I can't agree that python and C would be similar in any damn way. If you think the syntax is similar, you're smoking some stuff I'd like to try, too. Or perhaps you're writing your python code in strictly procedural fashion and referring to the paradigm? And ignoring very strongly present functional programming ideology that can "fuck with" the programmer's brain as well...
Anyway, I believe that every language that makes you think about programming differently is a good language, and as of such that includes QBasic as well.
muzzy:
--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez ---I often find myself reading posts several times before I understand them fully, this is worse for longer posts, and you're right I should have read your post a bit more carefully, perhaps because I find longer posts harder to read tend I concentrate more (some of muzzy's posts take nearly hour to read!) but I should also give short posts equal attention.
--- End quote ---
Ouch, I feel a little guilty about writing long posts now. Perhaps I should concentrate more to keep my posts short ;)
jtpenrod:
I personally find python to be an unholy language, not least because it uses indentation for flow control.
Python's use of white space for flow control has been controversial from day one. However, there is a plus side for the raw newbie. After using Python, he's more likely to write something like this:
--- Code: ---
for (int i= 0; i < SomeInt; i++)
{
/* Do Something */
/* Do Something */
/* Do Something */
/* Do Something */
}
--- End code ---
as opposed to something like this:
--- Code: ---
for (int i= 0; i < SomeInt; i++) {
/* Do Something */
/* Do Something */
/* Do Something */
/* Do Something */
/* Do Something */}
--- End code ---
Having gotten use to using sane indentation, he'll be more likely to produce more easily readable code.
--- Quote ---
Regarding C and C++, while pointers can be tough, they can be understood in the abstract sense without need to understand the lowlevel implementation. However, for debugging reasons it's always a good idea to understand how things are implemented, so strange bugs will make more sense. Anyway, in C++ you can code using only very little amount of pointers, so that's not quite a big as a stumbling block for a C++ programmer than it is to a C programmer.
--- End quote ---
Anything can be understood in an "abstract sense" if you work at it hard enough. However, every book on C/C++ has always introduced the subject of pointers and references with an apology, and an admonition to keep at it with the promise that he'll eventually "get it". It's a helluvalot easier if you've had some experience with assembly, and know how the various addressing modes work.
Still, there are plenty of occasions to use pointers in C++. That's especially true concerning objects and the infamous "this" pointer. Another good thing about Python is that Python class methods make explicit use of self referential pointers.
I can't agree that python and C would be similar in any damn way. If you think the syntax is similar, you're smoking some stuff I'd like to try, too.
Oh really? I'd say that this:
--- Code: ---
print "%s\n" % ("Hey there, dude!")
--- End code ---
is quite similar to this:
--- Code: ---
printf("%s\n", "Hey there, dude!");
--- End code ---
At least if one has seen the former, the latter won't look completely unfamiliar. Start with Python, and it will be easier to pick up C/C++. Jumping straight into C is not a good idea. It can be done, but not easily.
Or perhaps you're writing your python code in strictly procedural fashion and referring to the paradigm? And ignoring very strongly present functional programming ideology that can "fuck with" the programmer's brain as well...
I've used it both ways. Done the same with C++ as well. So?
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