Author Topic: Muzzy, why does Windows rule?  (Read 11883 times)

jtpenrod

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Re: Muzzy, why does Windows rule?
« Reply #75 on: 3 May 2005, 23:01 »
Do you know what? I've never really thought about it, I just acepted that valves are more linear than transistors.

That is perfectly true: valves are more linear than transistors. However, all too many folks latch onto that one fact and forget all about that output transformer. Linear valve + Nonlinear transformer= Nonlinear output. Valves also are low gain devices, so that there is insufficient open loop gain to linearize the transformer with inverse feedback. So a whole folklore grows up around these misconceptions, the marketing guys get hold of that, and the hype is lapped up like antifreeze at a petting zoo.

Quote

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-- Alexander Pope (1688-1744)


Nonlinear BJT + Inverse feedback + No output transformer= Linear output. It's really that simple.

Having said that nothing beats traveling wave tubes, klystrons and magnetrons in low noise high powered VHF and microwave amplifier and oscilator applications.

True: that's where "hollow state" beats solid state: RF applications.
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piratePenguin

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Re: Muzzy, why does Windows rule?
« Reply #76 on: 3 May 2005, 23:10 »
I think it's time to get back on topic.


Windows is shit.
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Aloone_Jonez

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Re: Muzzy, why does Windows rule?
« Reply #77 on: 3 May 2005, 23:33 »
Quote from: jtpenrod
Do you know what? I've never really thought about it, I just acepted that valves are more linear than transistors.

That is perfectly true: valves are more linear than transistors. However, all too many folks latch onto that one fact and forget all about that output transformer. Linear valve + Nonlinear transformer= Nonlinear output. Valves also are low gain devices, so that there is insufficient open loop gain to linearize the transformer with inverse feedback. So a whole folklore grows up around these misconceptions, the marketing guys get hold of that, and the hype is lapped up like antifreeze at a petting zoo.


It's ok I understand I meant valve amplifiers in general, Valves alone are very linear, like you said it's lack of negative feedback due to their low gain and the output transformer being very non-linear that generally increases the distortion of valve amplifiers. Modern solid state amplifiers have a very high open gain despite the transistors are less linear than valves, the negitive  feedback caused by the high open loop gain reduces the distortion, and there's no output transformer to mess things up.

I'm sure a class B  valve amplifier (correct me if I'm wrong but valves lack crosover distortion so class AB isn't required) driving a high impedance loudspeaker for a load will have very low distortion, but it'd be bloody expensive and I bet you a cheaper modern solid state design could achieve similar performance.


Quote from: jtpenrod
Nonlinear BJT + Inverse feedback + No output transformer= Linear output. It's really that simple.


In fact the bigest non-linear element in modern audio systems is the loud speaker system, but these have improved a lot too.

Quote from: jtpenrod
Having said that nothing beats traveling wave tubes, klystrons and magnetrons in low noise high powered VHF and microwave amplifier and oscilator applications.

True: that's where "hollow state" beats solid state: RF applications.


I'd like to get my hands on some of these devices one day. :D
« Last Edit: 3 May 2005, 23:39 by Aloone_Jonez »
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jtpenrod

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Re: Muzzy, why does Windows rule?
« Reply #78 on: 4 May 2005, 20:40 »
I'm sure a class B valve amplifier (correct me if I'm wrong but valves lack crosover distortion so class AB isn't required) driving a high impedance loudspeaker for a load will have very low distortion, but it'd be bloody expensive and I bet you a cheaper modern solid state design could achieve similar performance.

That's another unfortunate misconception. All active amplifiers show considerable nonlinearity at low currents, so all Class B amps have crossover distortion. They did try high impedance speakers in the late 1930s, however, I don't know what ever became of that.
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Aloone_Jonez

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Re: Muzzy, why does Windows rule?
« Reply #79 on: 4 May 2005, 21:08 »
As I'm only 23 I've only covered transistor and op-amp amplifers in the courses I've taken so far - apart from RF vacuum tubes are considered to be obsolete. I've obviously also picked up many myths about valves and valve amplifiers in general.

Is there anywhere I can read about valves and valve amplifiers that will debunk the most common myths?
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FIREFOX4ME

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Re: Muzzy, why does Windows rule?
« Reply #80 on: 4 May 2005, 23:09 »
I never learned how to spell or think for myself.
« Last Edit: 5 May 2005, 03:34 by skyman8081 »

Simon

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Re: Muzzy, why does Windows rule?
« Reply #81 on: 4 May 2005, 23:29 »
Once again, I'm having trouble understanding what I assume is your native tongue. Which grade did you fail?
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Re: Muzzy, why does Windows rule?
« Reply #82 on: 5 May 2005, 00:03 »
I think its more "How ever did he pass?"

Simon

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Re: Muzzy, why does Windows rule?
« Reply #83 on: 5 May 2005, 00:38 »
I blame the schools.
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Aloone_Jonez

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Re: Muzzy, why does Windows rule?
« Reply #84 on: 5 May 2005, 01:34 »
Quote from: FIREFOX4ME
muzzy is a dick$uicing M$-WHORIiGb FUCKWatrd!


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« Last Edit: 5 May 2005, 01:37 by Aloone_Jonez »
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BobTheHob

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Re: Muzzy, why does Windows rule?
« Reply #85 on: 5 May 2005, 02:17 »
Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
FuCk yOu kInnTarriO$ annnnDDDD $iMon i Aggree$ wiV fReFOX4me MUz$zY i$ a Di$cK$uck M$-HoReIDF$.

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Kintaro

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Re: Muzzy, why does Windows rule?
« Reply #86 on: 5 May 2005, 04:39 »
i need a wank

BobTheHob

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Re: Muzzy, why does Windows rule?
« Reply #87 on: 5 May 2005, 04:59 »
Quote from: kintaro
i need a wank
That woman in ur sig looks ready and willing for some hand on cock action. Go for it man, let her light up ur life:thumbup:
« Last Edit: 5 May 2005, 05:41 by BobTheHob »
The meaning of my username "BobTheHob":
It is well known that "Bob" is a nickname for robert in modern times, a lesser known nickname for robert is that of "Hob". Hob is a nickname for robert from the "Middle English" dialect. This is the version of english spoken and written around the late middle ages. Thus my username can be percieved like "RobertTheRobert" which is redundant. As I always like to say "Simplicity in redundancy, and elegance in simplicity".

jtpenrod

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Re: Muzzy, why does Windows rule?
« Reply #88 on: 5 May 2005, 05:24 »
Is there anywhere I can read about valves and valve amplifiers that will debunk the most common myths?

Design of Power Amps. He takes a very good, no bullshit approach to the subject.

Also, pay close attention to: Science and Subjectivism in Audio.. Here, he really gets to the core of the matter: cutting through all the hype and ignorance and misunderstanding.
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Aloone_Jonez

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Re: Muzzy, why does Windows rule?
« Reply #89 on: 5 May 2005, 13:10 »
Thanks jtpenrod, I'll have a read.:thumbup:
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