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frontpage: the choice of the KKK
bedouin:
Read my post again, you didn't get it.
Also read about the history of the KKK, then tell me it's as innocent as the Irish, Italian, or Polish club down the street. People feel animosity toward the KKK because their views simply can't lead anywhere good. It's not a 'white pride' club, it's a "we hate anyone who's not white" club, which has historically (not just in theory) used violence against other non-whites to prove their point.
No white person is going to have trouble hanging out at the Puerto Rican day parade; no black person will be harassed at a St. Patrick's day parade, however I doubt a black person is going to enjoy himself at the Klan rally. This isn't about denying anyone their 'pride.'
muzzy:
bedouin, How about you read the history of christianity, then tell me it's less innocent than KKK. The church isn't "jesus power" club, it's a "you're with us or you go to hell" club, which has historically (not just in theory) used violence against other non-believers to prove their point.
So, the problem is that blacks don't enjoy the Klan? This reminds me of a case in Sweden, where two muslims were removed from a flight because other passengers didn't feel secure about them being there. So, fear is the key issue in both cases, but are you going to blame those two muslims for the fear they caused in the rest of the passengers?
Does fear towards some people make them bad people, or does the assumption that they're bad people cause the fear? I'd say it's the latter, so the black man's racism is what makes him feel uneasy about the Klan. You can go dig the past of KKK and you'll find lots of violence, yeah, but that doesn't make any single unrelated klansman a bad person. If you say they're related by association the the Klan, then you're the racist here unless you have some more solid evidence. Go read the text behind Refalm's link. It's rather interesting stuff, and definitely makes me wonder about all this hate towards KKK.
bedouin:
--- Quote from: muzzy ---bedouin, How about you read the history of christianity, then tell me it's less innocent than KKK.
--- End quote ---
Certain manifestations of so-called Christianity are no less innocent than the KKK. Coincidentally, those contemporary manifestations tend to be share many of the KKK's ideologies with regards to race and cultural imperialism.
--- Quote ---So, the problem is that blacks don't enjoy the Klan?
--- End quote ---
Sigh. I hate to make the "you don't understand" statement, but frankly, you do not live in the US and understand the complexities of this. If you're a black man wandering in Mississippi Klan territory at 12 AM you're not just going to be handed some pamphlets and lectured on the merits of so-called white culture.
--- Quote ---Does fear towards some people make them bad people, or does the assumption that they're bad people cause the fear?
--- End quote ---
Why are you mixing two unrelated issues? Get back to the subject.
It would be unjust for me to fear a person of another skin color or religion, based on shaky stereotypes of what he/she believes. It would not be unjust for me to dislike a person who willfully joined a movement with an ideology that proclaims non-whites are subhuman.
--- Quote ---Go read the text behind Refalm's link. It's rather interesting stuff, and definitely makes me wonder about all this hate towards KKK.
--- End quote ---
I did read it -- the Klan understands public relations too. Someone who knows nothing about them might be gullible enough to believe it.
muzzy:
Right, I don't know situations in specific areas, I don't know how KKK operates, I don't know any single member of the klan. However, I'm not going to judge anyone just because they're members of some society. Further, I don't see anything bad about "White Pride". It sounds a lot like "Gay Pride" in some ways. To be proud of what you are, and there's nothing wrong with that.
You're making a strong assumption that KKK will, without doubt, harass the black upon sight. That's the only way I could be "mixing" unrelated issues, because that's the only way fear isn't the issue. I don't see this as "White Pride", harassment is always harassment, however I see it wrong to deny people their right to be proud of themselves, no matter what they are and who they are. Be it black, white, gay, pedo, whatever, everyone should have right to pride of who they are as long as they don't deny anyone else their rights. As of such, I believe there has to be good and fine people among KKK as well.
Refalm:
--- Quote from: muzzy ---As of such, I believe there has to be good and fine people among KKK as well.
--- End quote ---
Even if there are "good and fine" people among the KKK, they're still hateful towards people with other skin colours than themselves.
It's simply wrong to state that someone is better just because they where born with a certain skin colour.
And this is exactly what the KKK is preaching. I posted the link to show that members of the KKK are not monsters, they are psychologically deranged people.
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