Bane of the PC

[BobTheHob]

Have any of you ever thought about how the biggest problem with UNIX/Linux on the PC seems to be Hardware support and lack of proper drivers? I'm sure many of you have noticed but not given it any time in thinking. I myself have realized recently a controversial argument.

What if we shouldent even be expecting support from hardware manufactures, what if the PC should infact be running only Windows and no other OS? Don't get the wrong idea, I'm not saying leave UNIX/Linux, quite the reverse in fact, I'm saying leave the PC.

I have heard discussion before entailing the way Apple with MacOS is different because they control their hardware. What if this was not the fact, but in fact they were no different from every other OS company. Alas, if you think about it, every Platform has its own majority OS, a monopoly of sorts. MIPS has its IRIX, SPARC has Sun, PPC has MacOS. You don't see SGI driver support for NetBSD, Sun supporting drivers for FreeBSD, or even Apple for Yellow Dog.

I'm know all of you know all to well the monopoly charges against Microsoft. We all know Microsoft basically has free reign of hardware changes on the PC. What if this aspect was exactly how it is supossed to be, what if it is morally correct? Think about it, all the other Platforms are controlled by the OS makers. The OS makers on these platforms choose the availible hardware. Yes, I'm saying maybe Microsoft is not a monopoly in some ways (albeit not many), although I will still concur with you all that it is an evil corporation till the day i die.

Join me in the quest for the alternative platform. The cold hard truth is as far as the PC goes, Windows will always be the majority. Maybe we were all on the wrong platform. The PC is well known for being cheap, for price, but also quality. You all deserve better than the PC platform. The only pc i have left is a laptop, and today is the day I'm calling to finance a shiny new UltraSPARC laptop, that will be the latest to by expanding collection. I now have four HP-UX, and one SGI IRIX. I have to say I have never been happier.

What many don't realize is that by paying more for a workstation like a Sun or SGI pays out in the longrun. They will last you for year and years, still operating and performing useful tasks. Other platforms don't have hardware that is outdated in a mere six monthes. A purchase is well worth it. Using OS's that are so well funded that arent windows is possible on these other platforms. Sure games are lacking for IRIX, but if the game devs will port to other platforms, SGI's today could play with better graphics than any new PC in the next 3 years. Sure we are making efforts to run games on alternive OS's, but why waste the time when other platforms are better. Most of you that had PC's when you were little remember how expensive they back then, people can afford it, that shows it. Many of these expensive workstations are availible with very flexible payment options. With my laptop I have my choice of a lease or financing or rent to own, many options with each even.

Join me in the abandonment of the PC platform. Just using an alternitive OS is not enough. For even to build or buy a PC without using windows is still fueling the PC revelution, its an endless cycle. What is in motion stays in motion actually applys here although in merly a theoretical sense, the best that is microsoft will only be stopped by starvation.

[toadlife]

no thanks. I like cheap commodity hardware. It's possible to build high quality PC's that last upwards of 5-7 years using good brand name parts (ASUS/Kingston/Crucial/Seagate/Antec/Etc.).

[Aloone_Jonez]

Yes I agree look at this thread. I'm glad we're not all using Macs as things would be a lot worse. Microsoft don't have complete control over the hardware like Mac do. Imagine having only one choice of harware and software company that would be really fucked up at least we only have to put up with a software company being a monopoly.

[BobTheHob]

Yes I agree look at this thread. I'm glad we're not all using Macs as things would be a lot worse. Microsoft don't have complete control over the hardware like Mac do. Imagine having only one choice of harware and software company that would be really fucked up at least we only have to put up with a software company being a monopoly.

Macs arent the only other platform besides PC you know. I can think of several platforms that blows macs out the water. You seem to be missing the point though, mac is not the only one who does that. I mean come on, I wrote two whole paragraphs in there about that alone. You may not know it, but Microsoft does control the hardware for the most part albiet indirectly. You can bet if microsoft holds a conference stating that things need to be done this way, thats how it will be.

[piratePenguin]

If I had one of these not-Mac, not-PC computers... I'd more than likely want to get GNU/Linux on it.
Would that be a bad idea?

How much do these other computers cost anyhow?

[BobTheHob]

If I had one of these not-Mac, not-PC computers... I'd more than likely want to get GNU/Linux on it.
Would that be a bad idea?

How much do these other computers cost anyhow?

The most graphically inclined ones would be the SGI's (MIP's platform). GNU/Linux and even NetBSD is mostly out of the question on SGI MIPs depending on which architecture the processor is. For example, my SGI O2 has a R10k proc so its not supported by NetBSD, If I were to have chosen my O2 with a R5k proc I could have run it. Generally, anything R1xk and up is out of the question atm. I wouldent even worry about that though as IRIX is just about the best made OS imo.
A bottom of the line SGI Fuel workstation will run around $11,000, as for the other MIPS workstation model the Tezro, I dunno the price, SGI likes to keep its prices as hush hush as possible, I'll ask around and see.

 SGI's depreciate quickly so you can get nice ones on Ebay for very good prices. Fuels can be found on ebay for the price of a highend gaming PC.

The older you go back in models the more drastically they depreciate.
The thing with SGI's is that they are so incredibly powerful that they remain useful for a very long period of time. My O2 is a 97 or 98 model i think, it is still great for me. You have to remember these procs are 64-bit RISC, and they have alot of cache alot of times. My O2's proc is an R10k with 1MB L2 at a whopping 175mhz, don't let the speed fool you, they kick ass pretty damn well. I should be getting my hands on two nice R12k 300mhz with 4MB L2 soon, at which point i will put one in my O2 and be off and flying.

Now another great platform is Sun SPARC, Solaris being the OS. Before some of you come talking about how crappy Solaris is, I'm willing to bet you only have experiances on the x86 version, I'm sure you wouldent be if you used the SPARC version. The PC platform does have alot of hardware choices, and personally thats why x86 Solaris is crappy. Imo, the best way to ensure a flawless system is to have a controlled enviroment, like where hardware is heavily documented, something not possible on x86. SPARC platforms can be alot cheaper compared to SGI as far as the bottom end goes. I don't have any recent prices, and frankly there are a hell of alot more options than SGI.

[Siplus]

While I agree with some of your points, I think the success of Linux is primarily due to the fact that you can improve the usage of your computer _WITHOUT_ buying new hardware.

x86, while being technically inferior to the other mainstream architectures, has, in my opinion, a good cost/performance ratio.

I recently bought my first non-x86 computer. I can not determine the actual performance difference yet between x86 and G4 because there is the operating system barrier. When Fedora Core 4 comes out, I'll compare compile times or game benchmarks with 1.5ghz G4 vs 1.8ghz x86 (AMD Athlon 2600, actually). For now I do not trust the differences between SuSE 9.3 or FC3 and OS X.

The IT industry WILL NOT convert away from x86. there is too much investment in tact. If you want to strangle MS, you can't do it by cutting off x86; they can change processors just like Apple can (haha... please no extra comments. that's for another thread).

The only hope is either utter dominance by Apple, or incredible adoption of Linux (on x86). I'm not sure about the former, but I know the latter is happening

[Aloone_Jonez]

BobTheHob,
I take your point about MS controlling hardware as they've managed to add extra keys to the PC keyboard back in 1995.

[choasforages]

hence if you must go x86, go for the althon platform.....amd managed to license the dec alpha architecture.......now if only they mad a 3ghz dual core alpha...built from the ground up to be 64bit....wicked fast as well

[piratePenguin]

Next time I want/need a new computer, probably in about 3 years, I might look at these 'other' computers.
Although, I probably wouldn't want to spend too much on it. Seeing as I built this PC for

[Calum]

linux was originally designed to provide a *IX style system on hardware that, for once, was within the range of the average home user's budget.

i don't think it will leave that concept for a long time, even if it does branch out onto other hardware platforms.