Operating Systems > macOS
Development Intel Macs outperform G5s
bedouin:
Prime difference between OS X and Linux users being that OS X users will pay for software, so there's more incentive to develop for OS X. Also, with all its distributions, Linux is a support nightmare.
I don't think the marketshare thing is even worth debating until we actually have verifiable numbers, and we never will. The closest thing we had to that was Google's Zeitgeist, and even it seemed terribly off.
Judging from what I see in public though, I see far more Macs around than machines running Linux. Also, judging from a site I administer which is visited by generally educated folks the number of Linux hits are not even significant enough to show up in the Analog stats; one month IE on OS 9 showed up in the top 15 browser clients before anything Linux did. All of that information is relative though.
The type of person to install Linux on a desktop five years ago is the same as today: technically savvy, irritated by Windows, or unwilling/unable to pay for software. You rarely see Mac users move to Linux, unless its to make use of older hardware.
On the other hand, OS X adoption by geeks and Linux users has been steadily increasing over the past couple years -- Slashdot has illustrated that transformation quite clearly just in its user comments and coverage. As for the general population, you can find 19 year old girls slamming their Windows PC and says "My next computer will be a Mac." The iPod craze has put Apple back in people's mindshare.
I think the future of open source is going to take on a different path than what we predict, or desire. When an ideology or philosophy is adopted, it's rarely adopted in its pure form. The pure open source adoption would include Linux as the core OS, and no commercial software; there would be an anti-corporate stance. That way of seeing things will continue to have its adherents, and the existence of that community is extremely important -- just as important as a corporate presence is. The two extremes mesh and form a balance the general masses can agree upon. That said, it's important to remember that the pure OSS ideals have to remain in practice by a small, though sizable community; otherwise it becomes stagnant, powerless, and compromising.
On the other side of the fence you have corporate/capitalist interest. Face it, you need money to do R&D; that's why Linux has contributed absolutely nothing new to the desktop experience since its existence. You also need a certain amount of organization and standardization.
The future of OSS is not going to be absolute adoption. You're going to find people sticking to certain proprietary standards, and embracing certain open ones; you'll find people running OpenOffice, Apache, and Firefox, but on Windows or OS X. In the long run, you reach the same objective, because nobody can lock out the other without angering sizable amounts of their customer base.
The ones who will lose are those who don't get the paradigm shift (read Microsoft). Apple got it when they adopted BSD, Samba, Apache, and a handful of other OSS projects into their OS. Basically, let us provide you with a friendly experience, yet enough freedom to do as you like.
piratePenguin:
--- Quote from: bedouin ---with all its distributions, Linux is a support nightmare.
--- End quote ---
Firefox have their installer and it works on all distros I've tried.
--- Quote from: bedouin ---Judging from what I see in public though, I see far more Macs around than machines running Linux.
--- End quote ---
I've seen a grand total of zero non-Windows computers outside this house (even inside the house, except my computer (of course) and one of my brothers got a powerbook) in all my life. I've seen macs in stores though, just about (apple dont even have an apple store in Dublin. whats up with that?).
--- Quote from: bedouin ---The type of person to install Linux on a desktop five years ago is the same as today: technically savvy
--- End quote ---
That has changed (even take a look around these forums).
--- Quote from: bedouin ---irritated by Windows
--- End quote ---
Who the hell isn't?
--- Quote from: bedouin ---unwilling/unable to pay for software
--- End quote ---
Wouldn't most people just pirate? Even when I was on Windows, we payed for one win 98 and one win xp licence in all. Both were with the computers when we got them. Other than that, aside from the odd game or something (that someone else would get) no money left the house for software. And we had photoshop, macromedia studio mx, win 2k, winzip (who the hell would pay for that?), etc... Software isn;'t worth spending money on. Most of it is overpriced anyhow. It's just insane.
--- Quote from: bedouin ---On the other hand, OS X adoption by geeks and Linux users has been steadily increasing over the past couple years -- Slashdot has illustrated that transformation quite clearly just in its user comments and coverage. As for the general population, you can find 19 year old girls slamming their Windows PC and says "My next computer will be a Mac."
--- End quote ---
Or just dont get another computer for a long long long time and run GNU/Linux perfectly for a few years.
Noone knows about GNU/Linux, but that's definetly changing.
--- Quote from: bedouin ---The iPod craze has put Apple back in people's mindshare.
--- End quote ---
yep.. definetly.
--- Quote from: bedouin ---The pure open source adoption would include Linux as the core OS, and no commercial software; there would be an anti-corporate stance.
--- End quote ---
Right now, nobody (hardware and software vendors) supports our OS. That is kinda changing. Slowly but surely. And I dont see much "anti-corporate stance" even now... I feel it in me and that's about all :p
--- Quote from: bedouin ---That way of seeing things will continue to have its adherents, and the existence of that community is extremely important -- just as important as a corporate presence
--- End quote ---
Far more important. Look what a great OS we already have WITHOUT this "corporate presence". Who created it? The community.
--- Quote from: bedouin ---The two extremes mesh and form a balance the general masses can agree upon. That said, it's important to remember that the pure OSS ideals have to remain in practice by a small, though sizable community; otherwise it becomes stagnant, powerless, and compromising.
--- End quote ---
Already is pretty small... I dont think theres any danger of GNU/Linux users avoiding non-free software. There's only a very very very small minority that do.
--- Quote from: bedouin ---On the other side of the fence you have corporate/capitalist interest. Face it, you need money to do R&D; that's why Linux has contributed absolutely nothing new to the desktop experience since its existence.
--- End quote ---
Why the desktop specific? Look at what GNU/Linux did with the server market? They contributed ALOT to that, and that's where GNU/Linux really shines. They've perfected everything else, the desktop.
What's R&D btw?
--- Quote from: bedouin ---You also need a certain amount of organization and standardization.
--- End quote ---
Working on it ;)
--- Quote from: bedouin ---The ones who will lose are those who don't get the paradigm shift (read Microsoft). Apple got it when they adopted BSD, Samba, Apache, and a handful of other OSS projects into their OS. Basically, let us provide you with a friendly experience, yet enough freedom to do as you like.
--- End quote ---
Think Apple would be so great if they were in the same monopoly position as MS are now? And a diversified OS market WON'T HAPPEN. Which is why, IMO, we can only have good software if it's only free software and it doesn't matter if the people who are developing it are on a wage (they would be) and their company are selling it (they would be).
Yawn, must... sleep..
WMD:
--- Quote ---As for the general population, you can find 19 year old girls slamming their Windows PC and says "My next computer will be a Mac." The iPod craze has put Apple back in people's mindshare.
--- End quote ---
There must be regional differences or whatever, but I don't see this here. Admittedly I'm not the type that's outside among people terribly often, but I see a lot of people in school when I'm there (and I'll see more once I start working, especially in computing), but there isn't a movement towards the Mac based on the iPod.
Most people I know see two "Apples." The company that makes iPods, and the company that makes computers nobody uses/doesn't know they still do/make "toy" computers/crappy computers. This one kid, in particular - make that two - love iPods to death, and praise Apple for what went into them - but don't like the computers. I kinda-sorta showed one of them the light, but the other is mostly unphased. (Ironically, that one actually owned a Bondi blue iMac back in the day.)
I find that mindset laughable - the iPod is pure Apple Computer! It portrays all that Apple is, believes, and strides for. But the computers? Nah, they're nothing, nobody cares about them. In my school, I only know one Mac user - a teacher, who - *chuckles* - is a former hippie who still does weed every once in a while. Stereotypes suck horribly, but even more so when that's all you can find.
I'm not totally confused by this mindset, really. I get my ideas for why from the columnists at Low End Mac. The reason is because of usage patterns between where the vast majority of people ever used Macs - schools - and what they do at home, on a Wintel computer. What fun could you have on a school computer? Many had FoolProof installed, and even so, kids didn't know what Mac games existed. As for the Windows computers at school, the kids know where to get some games for them - it's the same machine as at home - and some (like myself) have become good enough at the horror that is Windows to get around whatever security they put on them to run stuff. Heck, in 9th grade (maybe it was 10th) this kid played WarCraft 3 at school on a Windows box. (And that *does* have a Mac version - heh.) With all this, they don't wanna even think about Macs at home, because they don't know of any software. (Apple has addressed this somewhat, with the "Mac OS X Software..." option in the Apple menu, leading to their database of nearly every Mac application out there.) A smaller issue is the shitty Macs that schools always seemed to buy - the LC, the 32MB RAM iMac, the Performa 52x0, etc.
Now, what I describe includes many experiences from the OS 8/9 era. Obviously OS X is far different and must be judged on its own*. But nobody I know really wants to do that - Mac OS 9 is the Mac, period. Technically, Windows also changed OSs since then, but they made it more subtle. It was still the same Windows everyone knew. But OS X is radically different, and people should really see it. (Please Apple, put ads for your computers back on TV!!) For some people,there is hope. I'm trying to get my dad onto the Mac for his next computer, coming up soon - his current PC is falling apart (not literally). I don't think he's ever seen OS 9 before, so he's got nothing. I'll have to tell him about the Unix in it - he's got some good old Unix memories from the 80s that I can take advantage of.
But the rest of the world goes by. Every time I go to CompUSA, I hang around the Apple section. Low traffic, and mostly casual and half-confused people. I wish I could read their minds as they stare at the Powerbook screen.
*- I'm in the small group of people that wishes that Apple had kept the OS 9 interface mostly intact in OS X - maybe a new skin, but same everything else on top. The classic Finder will always beat Finder 10.x. And there'd be more speed.
Sorry if this seems random, drifting, or plain weird. It's after 4am here.
Aloone_Jonez:
[OFFTOPIC]Why does everyone think Apple would be any better than Microsoft if they had a monopoly position?
I personally believe that Apple having a monopoly would be a lot worse than Microsoft. All companies are ultimately driven by greed and one company in control of everything (regardless of who it is) is not good.
Microsoft at the moment only have limited control over the hardware industry, if Apple had a monopoly they would own both the hardware and the software
WMD:
--- Quote ---Why does everyone think Apple would be any better than Microsoft if they had a monopoly position?
--- End quote ---
Nobody's asking for that. Nor could it likely happen after everything Microsoft has done.
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