New Convert...

[Duo Maxwell]

BTW, novell is giving away another resource kit for free to anyone wants to try out their software.  dont have the link.  but i think you altually had to receive an email to get it. not sure though.

https://secure-www.novell.com/community/linux/order.php?email=%25%25emailaddr%25%25

[ksym]

Thats still very slow (Notepad2 on WinXP = instant, less than quarter of a second).

Is it Gnome and/or the shell/Kernel that slows it down so much? Can you similar performance to winXP with another distribution/gui?

If speed is so significant for you, then don't bother with OSS systems. Just stick with yer suck-bills-balls-Windows or what ever

You see, commercial platforms have a market-driven userland, which is mostly standardized, like in Windows. Software can be prelinked against system interfaces during compile-time, and so they work fast as hell.

In GNU/Linux you have no standards, no single userland to prelink software with. And this also makes it hard to mane binary software distributions at all! If one wants to be 100% sure his software works, then one gotta distribute it as source and let end users bang their heads to the wall while compiling it.

I'm probably heading towards Fedora Core at the moment. I want a distribution that is fully installed, I'll try the Ubuntu CD if I get my hands on it.

Only problem is that I have 56k modem so I can't download anything big. May have to order it.

NOW THAT is a PROBLEM.

Modern distributions are based around the net. They need to be linked with the central software repository, which contains the pre-compiled applications for that distro.

The thing is, without a fast internet connection your Linux distribution is pretty much useless. You can't install applications as in windows, dl some exe and run it ... in Linux there are no userland standards to make easy binary distribution: each software dependes on other pieces of software, the other software depends on other and so forth ...
this is because the whole GNU/Linux is nothing but the most essential c-libraries, all other components must be dealt with individually.

So you have to rely on the distribution's central software repository, and the application collection it offers, because these 'packages' have all the dependencies resolved, and stored into the repository. An installation of a simple application might need about 20 other components to be installed ... and without automation getting those components would be a fucking frustrating job i tell ya ...

So you are still interested? If so, then wellcome, have fun, and PM me about your first experiences on this wonderful chaos called "GNU/Linux".

[Aloone_Jonez]

It takes me about two seconds to open up GNU Emacs (in X), but then when I close it and open it again, it pops up in no time atall.
Does the same thing happen for you ppl with gedit?
Does the same thing happen in Windows (try it with something like Firefox)?

This is the same with all programs on all modern operating systems, the program loads instantly because it remains in the disc cache when it's closed so it doesn't need to be loaded again unless it's been overwritten by something else.

[piratePenguin]

This is the same with all programs on all modern operating systems, the program loads instantly because it remains in the disc cache when it's closed so it doesn't need to be loaded again unless it's been overwritten by something else.

Ah right.


Ksym, I was on dialup all my internet-life up untill a few weeks ago. When I switched to mandrake over a year ago (using cd's I asked my brother to download, 'cause he has broadband), on 56k, I updated all the packages in half a night. Keeping the system up to date was easy as pie (in Windows, after a reinstall, updating took _forever_. And I coundnt find out how to save the updates to disk or whatever). I never had a problem with loads of dependencies I didn't want being downloaded or anything like that. None of the problems you describe actually occured. Whenever packages were downloaded, they were stored somewhere in /var (cant remember exactly) and I just burned them to disk and installed them any time I reinstalled (infact, I never reinstalled mandrake.).

[ksym]

Ah right.


Ksym, I was on dialup all my internet-life up untill a few weeks ago. When I switched to mandrake over a year ago (using cd's I asked my brother to download, 'cause he has broadband), on 56k, I updated all the packages in half a night. Keeping the system up to date was easy as pie (in Windows, after a reinstall, updating took _forever_. And I coundnt find out how to save the updates to disk or whatever). I never had a problem with loads of dependencies I didn't want being downloaded or anything like that. None of the problems you describe actually occured. Whenever packages were downloaded, they were stored somewhere in /var (cant remember exactly) and I just burned them to disk and installed them any time I reinstalled (infact, I never reinstalled mandrake.).

With a 56k system upgrade takes a lot of time. And one gotta keep up to date, or some third party apps just won't work.

Just admit it, there are no standards and no stable userland schemes in any GNU/Linux distros. All of them are just billions of small pieces parsed together with the power of yer internet connection. No offense, but this kind of system designs just sucks.

[piratePenguin]

With a 56k system upgrade takes a lot of time.

No it does NOT. It's nowhere near as bad as on Windows.
The only tough bit is getting your hands on the CD(s). From then on, it's free sailing.
Plus, I find that free programs contain less bloat than non-free programs (take a look at blender. Then other similar non-free programs. Take a look at Cinelerra... Take a look at the GIMP...). And downloading then takes alot less time.
Heh, I used to get my brother to download all applications I wanted. Cause I couldn't get them on 56k. But getting the GIMP, Cinelerra, free software programs... Now he's obselete

And one gotta keep up to date, or some third party apps just won't work.

I've never had any problems with stuff not compiling because of that, and I've used Slackware (10.0 and 10.1) alot which I _never_ updated (didn't know how heh.). And on Slackware I compiled everything I wanted/needed anyhow.

Just admit it, there are no standards and no stable userland schemes in any GNU/Linux distros. All of them are just billions of small pieces parsed together with the power of yer internet connection. No offense, but this kind of system designs just sucks.

There's no standards accross the different distributions alright. And it's terrible, I know. But inside each distribution, be it Mandriva, Fedora Core, Debian, or whatever, everything just works.

It's a wonderful system!

[ksym]

I've never had any problems with stuff not compiling because of that, and I've used Slackware (10.0 and 10.1) alot which I _never_ updated (didn't know how heh.). And on Slackware I compiled everything I wanted/needed anyhow.
There's no standards accross the different distributions alright. And it's terrible, I know. But inside each distribution, be it Mandriva, Fedora Core, Debian, or whatever, everything just works.

It's a wonderful system!

You were just being lucky.

You see, it is all about what version development headers/m4-macros the software developers used.

Wanna try building Linux Dc++ on yer slackware? It uses GTK 2.4, and Debian OS does not provide this new version of it.
So you gotta compile it by hand, and all it's dependencies (libatk if i remember correctly).

I have no problems with such a task, but many newb users get frustrated with these kidna defiencies. And this is what makes Linux too chaotic for enterprise level, where everything, EVEN SOFTWARE INSTALLATION, needs to work every time.

[piratePenguin]

I'm not bothered that some non-free developers have trouble getting their non-free programs onto our free operating system. I'm actually quite glad.


IMO, inventing the LGPL and applying it to glibc was a bad move by GNU. I'm quite surprised they did it. If it wasn't RMS in control (assuming it was. I dunno though, but I know that he definetly accepts the LGPL), I'd probably expect him to make his own GPL library.

RMS wanted a free operating system. He has it now, and now they're trying to make BIOSes free software. What they want is not a free operating system, but a system of entirely free software. So expliticly (why the hell won't google/dictionary.com help me spell that properly :mad:?) allowing non-free software on the system is just retarded.

But they did it so the operating system could survive and maybe someday go mainstream. I've no doubt that the operating system would definetly have survived (we've got free alternatives for almost everything. Currently we don't need non-free software for a usable system.), but going mainstream is another thing entirely.

I wouldn't want it to go mainstream unless the major apps and the whole of the OS are free software. I mean, I don't want it to go mainstream unless my system can be totally free software (so all the tools I use must be free). I'd be surprised if RMS thought differently. Which is why I think for him to accept the LGPL, is just silly.

I'd much prefer everything to be free software. And to outlaw non-free software rather than welcome it like GNU did when they invented the LGPL.

[worker201]

Wanna try building Linux Dc++ on yer slackware? It uses GTK 2.4, and Debian OS does not provide this new version of it.
So you gotta compile it by hand, and all it's dependencies (libatk if i remember correctly).

Whiny little bitch!  I built gtk-2.8 from source on my Mac!  It's not that hard.

Anybody who expects this Linux thing to be easy is going to be very disappointed.

[piratePenguin]

Anybody who expects this Linux thing to be easy is going to be very disappointed.

Do you mean getting that GNU/Linux DC++ working or learning GNU/Linux?
In case of the latter, we're talking about Ubuntu. It's not hard to use. It's just slightly different to Windows. Just the same with Mac OS X.

I was amazed when my brother came home with his powerbook (which he'd had for a good few days) and didn't understand alot of stuff about Mac OS X. How to install software. How to get stuff off the tray thing... Simple things like that.
And it's not because Mac OS X is hard to use, it's just because it's not the same as Windows, the only operating system he's used to. If the laptop was running ubuntu, he'd have similar problems (installing software anyhow). And it's not because Ubuntu is hard to use either.

[ksym]

Whiny little bitch!  I built gtk-2.8 from source on my Mac!  It's not that hard.

Anybody who expects this Linux thing to be easy is going to be very disappointed.

Yes, it is not hard if you know how to do it. I know, done this, been there, done that ...

But many other users will get disappointed in Linux since there is no stable userland ABI to distribute pre-built binaries on.
Currently it's all about the glue the package managers and their pre-built binary repos can do.

[worker201]

I had trouble with OSX at the beginning because I was too used to Windows.  I expected things to be as difficult as they are in Windows.  The fact that they were so much simpler, well I was not prepared for that.

Suck Ubuntu's cock all you want, but someday you're going to have to edit a makefile by hand to correct a config error.  And there isn't anything in the world but experience that can prepare you for that.

[piratePenguin]

Suck Ubuntu's cock all you want

WTF I'm just saying that Ubuntu is a fucking easy distribution to use just like Mac OS X is a fucking easy OS to use, regardless of the odd person not immediatly understanding how to install software or whatever, only because they're used to some other DIFFERENT operating system.
:fu:

Why is cock sucking always assosiated with Ubuntu and never Mac OS X? It seems much more appropriate for Apple users. And I'm just giving you facts and opinions about GNU/Linux or Ubuntu.

but someday you're going to have to edit a makefile by hand to correct a config error. And there isn't anything in the world but experience that can prepare you for that.

Been there, done that. I've had to edit C code to get some packages to compile (isdn4k-utils when I was on slackware; gnumach-1.3 on GNU/Hurd, (but that was only due to multi-line string literals being deprecated in recent version of gcc, and gnumach-1.3 was released in 2002 and uses them. So changing it was pretty easy (though there was _loads_ of them))), and that was long before I learned C.

[ksym]

Suck Ubuntu's cock all you want, but someday you're going to have to edit a makefile by hand to correct a config error. And there isn't anything in the world but experience that can prepare you for that.

This is why I just love GNU/Linux.

Makes me feel more like a MAN!

[Pathos]

You guys are horribly off topic...I don't need to compile anything yet