FreeBSD 6!

[toadlife]

Well, I took the leap, and updated my Box to FreeBSD 6-BETA2. I had some trouble with the nvidia driver causing a kernel panic, but disabling the nvidia driver, updating to 6, and reinstalling the nvdia driver fixed everything.


Wooot!!!

http://www.toadlife.net/stuff/forum_pics/freebsd_6_kde_3.4.2.png

[ksym]

Well, I took the leap, and updated my Box to FreeBSD 6-BETA2. I had some trouble with the nvidia driver causing a kernel panic, but disabling the nvidia driver, updating to 6, and reinstalling the nvdia driver fixed everything.

Yeah, monolithic kernels suck because third party drivers can so easily cause kernel panics and other shit

Now that I think about it, the nVidia drivers are the only thing that have caused kernel panic in my Linux boxes. nVidia sucks?

[ksym]

And btw ...

Can you help me to convince these GNU/Linux masturbators around here that their system has no standards whatsoever?

It just sucks how people think that GNU/Linux systems are compatible, and that building proprietary binaries is a piece of cake for the GNU suck-cock-userland.

It is just so fucking frustrating to be a devoted GNU/Linux user, like me, and admit the faults and problems our platform has, while all the other users just fail to see any problems and act blind. Sigh.

[Jenda]

It's not easy to admit one's faults in a world where you need a helluva good reason to stay on Linux, becuase you're the only one in the neigbourhood...
I only know like two people in town (Prague - 1M) with GNU/Linux personally...

[ksym]

It's not easy to admit one's faults in a world where you need a helluva good reason to stay on Linux, becuase you're the only one in the neigbourhood...
I only know like two people in town (Prague - 1M) with GNU/Linux personally...

And you use Linux yourself?

I use GNU/Linux because i hate Microsoft. I could use BSD, but the additudes against beginner coders like me are kinda cold in that scene .. so I stick with L.

I just see many problems and faults with Linux, and try to make workarounds. But many people don't care bout these things, and they think I am and idiot cuz I wanna discuss about these ...

[worker201]

I don't know where you got the impression, ksym, that Linux users owe you anything.  If you're not writing patches and owning mailing lists and sending money to developers, then you get to shut the fuck up and deal with it like everyone else.  Linux isn't perfect, but it does in fact fucking rock.  I'd like to see a few changes made, but the overall mantra at this point is "put up or shut up".  One great reason to use Linux over Windows is that if you don't like something, you can change it.  Legally.  This is certainly not Windows, where your only option is to whine to the deaf developer.  You have to take responsibility for being the developer.

[ksym]

I don't know where you got the impression, ksym, that Linux users owe you anything. If you're not writing patches and owning mailing lists and sending money to developers, then you get to shut the fuck up and deal with it like everyone else. Linux isn't perfect, but it does in fact fucking rock. I'd like to see a few changes made, but the overall mantra at this point is "put up or shut up". One great reason to use Linux over Windows is that if you don't like something, you can change it. Legally. This is certainly not Windows, where your only option is to whine to the deaf developer. You have to take responsibility for being the developer.

And as I said .. I am trying to make workarounds.

But as it is, my current ideas have been mostly mocked ...

Like, people don't undestand the benefits of relocatable binaries, and the idea of installing components into their isolated locations. These are perversions to most GNU/Linux users, but have been used in the enterprise world for decades.

So am I the fault that GNU/Linux people ain't ready to learn from others? If I want to make a sandboxed exo-runtime platfrom which wraps statically prefixed applications in a nice, movable form, does this make me a fucking criminal? Sure. So fuck you people.

And if I think that ALL the current package managements are a poor excuse to not make good userland designs, am I the asshole here? OH YES!

Dudes talk about "legacy unix traditions" and such fucking boring shit. Does this have to do with the fact, that all distro's fucking integrate every app into their /usr hierarchy with the "base-system"? Legacy-Unix my ass ...

Not to say, that no Linux system has a monolithically designed userland, which I find a huge defiency. Userland MUST be monolithic, not just some pile-o-binaries tailored from multiple packages. Learn from *BSD and prosper, I say!

Damn this is fun. Carry on flamin' people ...

[toadlife]

Yeah, monolithic kernels suck because third party drivers can so easily cause kernel panics and other shit

Now that I think about it, the nVidia drivers are the only thing that have caused kernel panic in my Linux boxes. nVidia sucks?

We'll I've never had nvidia's driver cause a kernel panic on a *supported* version of FreeBSD. nvidia's current driver does not officially support FreeBSD 6 - the freebsd port applies a hack that allows it to install if you have freebsd 6, so I can't complain.

nvidia's driver cannot be compiled into the freebsd kernel. It can only be loaded as a module, so at boot time, you can go to the boot loader prompt and tell FreeBSD to not load the nvidia module if it is causing problems.

I'm having to recompile all of my apps (~280!) in order for them to not have to un in compatibility mode, and it's taking quite awhile. Gentoo users would understand.

[piratePenguin]

And as I said .. I am trying to make workarounds.
 
 But as it is, my current ideas have been mostly mocked ...
 
 Like, people don't undestand the benefits of relocatable binaries, and the idea of installing components into their isolated locations. These are perversions to most GNU/Linux users, but have been used in the enterprise world for decades.
 
 So am I the fault that GNU/Linux people ain't ready to learn from others? If I want to make a sandboxed exo-runtime platfrom which wraps statically prefixed applications in a nice, movable form, does this make me a fucking criminal? Sure. So fuck you people.
 
 And if I think that ALL the current package managements are a poor excuse to not make good userland designs, am I the asshole here? OH YES!
 
 Dudes talk about "legacy unix traditions" and such fucking boring shit. Does this have to do with the fact, that all distro's fucking integrate every app into their /usr hierarchy with the "base-system"? Legacy-Unix my ass ...
 
 Not to say, that no Linux system has a monolithically designed userland, which I find a huge defiency. Userland MUST be monolithic, not just some pile-o-binaries tailored from multiple packages. Learn from *BSD and prosper, I say!
 
 Damn this is fun. Carry on flamin' people ...

I was thinking about making a GNU/Linux distribution a while back. One program I discovered and would've used to help package management was GNU stow.

GNU Stow is a program for managing the installation of software packages, keeping them separate (/usr/local/stow/emacs vs. /usr/local/stow/perl, for example) while making them appear to be installed in the same place (/usr/local).

For binary distribution, I figured I could distribute a tarball of /usr/local/stow/packagename. I dunno of any distribution that does this, or that uses stow. For source distribution, well, just prefix the package into /usr/local/stow and run 'stow' to update the symlinks.

I only heard of stow 'cause in GNU/Hurd, they have a translator (program) that merges directories in a union filesystem (just like any unionfs. And I believe there's unionfs in Linux and *BSD, but I never checked.). Anyhow, one of the features of this 'unionfs' translator is "stow". The union is updated in real time. Whenever a package is installed in (/usr/local)/stow/packagename/, then (/usr/local)/bin, (/usr/local)/sbin etc. are automatically updated. No symlinks, and no need for a 'stow' command.
They'll probably be using it for the GNU distribution they've been talking about recently.

[ksym]

I'm having to recompile all of my apps (~280!) in order for them to not have to un in compatibility mode, and it's taking quite awhile. Gentoo users would understand.

HAHA

I do understand, I run Gentoo for 2 years

But you have compatibility mode??? WHOA!

I just hope some GNU/Linux could make that kinda option ...

[worker201]

HAHA

I do understand, I run Gentoo for 2 years

But you have compatibility mode??? WHOA!

I just hope some GNU/Linux could make that kinda option ...

Again, putting the blame on someone else.  Do it yourself.

[toadlife]

Yeah, FreeBSD 6 offers FreeBSD BSD 4.3, FreeBSD 4,and FreeBSD 5 compatibility mode - so you can even run programs compiled for very old versions of BSD - though I wouldn't recommend it.

[ksym]

Again, putting the blame on someone else.  Do it yourself.

Would be very hard.

I blame the GNU libc developers for this. Not only they break backwards compatibility quite often, also break forward compatibility, and they break ABI even when interface version is not changed ... so it is very hard to make any userland hacks around ABI breaks (since you can't be sure if the libc version is compatible or not).

BSD dudes just have every detail thought out. Tho they won't like people who are not really good hackers, so I stick with GNU/Linsux and try to make my points clear ...

[toadlife]

I think the myth of BSD elistism is rather overblown.  I'm not a unix guru, and I don't know C/C++ from my ass, but I've found the BSD community to be pretty friendly place myself.

[WMD]

And btw ...

Can you help me to convince these GNU/Linux masturbators around here that their system has no standards whatsoever?

It just sucks how people think that GNU/Linux systems are compatible, and that building proprietary binaries is a piece of cake for the GNU suck-cock-userland.

It is just so fucking frustrating to be a devoted GNU/Linux user, like me, and admit the faults and problems our platform has, while all the other users just fail to see any problems and act blind. Sigh.

Why is this all you talk about in every thread?  This isn't even on topic here.