Author Topic: US copyright office thinking of going partially IE only  (Read 6940 times)

hm_murdock

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Re: US copyright office thinking of going partially IE only
« Reply #30 on: 13 August 2005, 21:20 »
Like going so far as to not install Flash in Camino, so that I can control when I see Flash animations? (I have to run a different browser to see 'em)
Go the fuck ~

worker201

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Re: US copyright office thinking of going partially IE only
« Reply #31 on: 14 August 2005, 02:19 »
Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
PNG even supports diffetent colour depths, 1, 4, 8 and 24 bit modes are supported, the only disadvantege it has it it lacks animation.


Not true - Fireworks will make animated pngs.  Not sure about gimp - haven't tried it yet.

Pathos

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Re: US copyright office thinking of going partially IE only
« Reply #32 on: 14 August 2005, 04:05 »
If think the animated equivalent of png is called mng. Which has very little support to my knowledge. Not even the gimp 2.2 supports it.

mobrien_12

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Re: US copyright office thinking of going partially IE only
« Reply #33 on: 14 August 2005, 04:46 »
Quote from: worker201
Safari and Firefox are just forks of the Mozilla project, so once one works, they will all probably work.



Safari uses code from KHTML,the code base of KDE's Konqueror browser, not mozilla.  Check out Apple's own Safari page.

Quote

Open Source

Safari uses open source software for its web page rendering engine, Safari draws on KHTML and KJS software from the KDE open source project.


In fact, Apple's rejection of Mozilla code  was one of the reasons the Mozilla group decided to start the FireFox project.
In brightest day, in darkest night, no evil shall escape my sight....

Jenda

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Re: US copyright office thinking of going partially IE only
« Reply #34 on: 20 August 2005, 13:47 »
Hmm. Now that we're on the subject, is there anyone that could summarize the (dis)advantages and (mis)uses of different picture formats? And could you include all the crappy ones, for completeness, too? I think I will not be the only one to profit from a little more knowledge...
Thanks.

GIF TIFF JPG PNG BMP WMF [puke] etc...

worker201

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Re: US copyright office thinking of going partially IE only
« Reply #35 on: 21 August 2005, 00:17 »
First off, you have to think of raster graphics as a set of xy coordinates, with each pixel being assigned a color.  Imagine a sheet of graphing paper.

bmp (bitmap):
The most basic format.  Each pixel is assigned an xy value and an RGB value.  Since the RGB value is usually in hexadecimal notation (FF11DD for a nice plum purple), you can see how image size is going to shoot up geometrically as dimensions increase.  We're talking a byte or more per pixel - that's going to make some monstrous images.  At this point in time, the only purpose of a bmp is as wallpaper in Windows 3.1.

tiff (tagged image file format):
Since bmp is so awful, tiff was invented.  The main diff between bmp and tiff is that a tiff file has a header in it.  This header can store all sorts of things, like file details, thumbnails, and more.  It can even store compression algorithms.  Thus, you get the millions of color variations of a bitmap, but without the size going nuts.  tiff is the format you want to use for storing pictures, since it is not lossy (ie, it doesn't lose clarity over time), and it thumbnails easily.

jpeg (joint pictures engineering group):
jpeg is the king of the web and other raster graphics because you can compress it so well.  Using an image optimizer, you can get jpegs down to 1/20 the size of a tiff, or more.  Which makes it ideal for the web, since you can trade off quality for size.  Unfortunately, the compression algorithm jpeg uses is a bitch.  It compresses by finding rows or columns of extremely similar color and making using a single snatch of code to describe the whole thing.  It does this each and every time you save your file.  After 4 or 5 saves, a nice blue sky can turn into a mangled pixelated mess, and gradients go to shit rather quickly.  Zoom in on any jpeg image and you will see linear artifacts - these grow and get more obvious over time.  So the sacrifice of quality for size is only really good for web distribution.

gif (graphical interchange format):
Your basic indexed color image.  Instead of every pixel having an RGB value, there is a color index table.  So each pixel has position, but not value.  In any image with less than 256 colors, this is going to save a lot of space.  After that, though, the color table gets so advanced that the size tradeoff will be destroyed.  Which is why you don't usually see gifs used for photos.  gifs are better suited to small graphics with a limited color pallete.  gif also supports transparency and frame animation, which makes it convenient for web deployment.  Unfortunately, its past has been plagued with licensing problems from its inventor, CompuServe.

png (portable network graphics):
png was designed by the W3C to replace gif, because the restrictive license was impeding open development.  So a png is just like a gif, but the creation engine/algorithm is open source.  This made it possible for open source browsers and graphic apps to use it, and the birth of the gimp and the mozilla project are closely related to the rise of png.  png supports transparency, animation, and color indexing.  It also supports standard bitmap color referencing.  It does this by having 3 different formats - 8, 16, and 24.  The names presumably refer to how many bits each pixel can store.  Although the png implementation is not quite complete or thorough yet (Adobe only supports png8 well), it has the potential to replace all the formats listed above.

This group here covers all the basics.  Everything else is just same shit, different name.  Some formats have proprietary compression packages, some have licensing issues, and some even write nearly unreadable headers.  Many of them are very outdated or passe, based on the popularity that the internet has given gif and jpeg.  And some even suck - provide no advantages whatsoever.

Pathos

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Re: US copyright office thinking of going partially IE only
« Reply #36 on: 21 August 2005, 03:38 »
bmp and tga used in games because they are very simple formats. You can write loading functions for each in 5 minutes (if you only support a certain colour format).

tga has 32 bit colour so partial transparency is supported.

Refalm

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Jenda

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Re: US copyright office thinking of going partially IE only
« Reply #38 on: 21 August 2005, 10:48 »
Cool. Thanks.

Jenda

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Re: US copyright office thinking of going partially IE only
« Reply #39 on: 21 August 2005, 11:11 »
Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
PNG even supports diffetent colour depths, 1, 4, 8 and 24 bit modes are supported, the only disadvantege it has it it lacks animation.

 
Quote from: worker201
png supports transparency, animation, and color indexing.


Ummm... make up your minds. Does it, or does it not?

piratePenguin

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Re: US copyright office thinking of going partially IE only
« Reply #40 on: 21 August 2005, 12:46 »
Quote from: Jenda
Ummm... make up your minds. Does it, or does it not?
It does.
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Jenda

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Re: US copyright office thinking of going partially IE only
« Reply #41 on: 21 August 2005, 15:16 »
Quote from: piratePenguin
It does.

 OK. I thought so. That makes it my format of choice from now on. Along with Ogg. I'm just not decided yet on the text documents. Prolly .odt

Aloone_Jonez

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Re: US copyright office thinking of going partially IE only
« Reply #42 on: 21 August 2005, 15:57 »
But do Firefox and Microsoft Internet Explorer support animated pngs because if they don't there's no point in using them. Could someone please post one of these rare creatures an we'll se for ourselves.

By the way WMF and SGV are vector graphic formats not raster formats like bmp gif ect. Who actually uses svgs anyway - I've yet to encounter a website using them.
This is not a Windows help forum, however please do feel free to sign up and agree or disagree with our views on Microsoft.

Oh and FUCKMicrosoft! :fu:

piratePenguin

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Re: US copyright office thinking of going partially IE only
« Reply #43 on: 21 August 2005, 16:16 »
Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
By the way WMF and SGV are vector graphic formats not raster formats like bmp gif ect. Who actually uses svgs anyway - I've yet to encounter a website using them.
I've never seen any on the web - they're usually first converted to PNG.
SVGs are used for icons alot (as well as PNGs I guess).
"What you share with the world is what it keeps of you."
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a poem by my computer, Macintosh Vigilante
Macintosh amends a damned around the requested typewriter. Macintosh urges a scarce design. Macintosh postulates an autobiography. Macintosh tolls the solo variant. Why does a winter audience delay macintosh? The maker tosses macintosh. Beneath female suffers a double scum. How will a rat cube the heavier cricket? Macintosh calls a method. Can macintosh nest opposite the headache? Macintosh ties the wrong fairy. When can macintosh stem the land gang? Female aborts underneath macintosh. Inside macintosh waffles female. Next to macintosh worries a well.

worker201

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Re: US copyright office thinking of going partially IE only
« Reply #44 on: 22 August 2005, 04:57 »
Supposedly, svg is going to take the place of Flash.  Supposedly.

I didn't forget it, I just decided it didn't belong there.
I'll make an animated png tonight, just for you.