Is RMS Being Inconsistent on Civil Rights?

[anphanax]

http://www.stallman.org/archives/2005-jul-oct.html

"I support China's one-child policy; I do not believe that people have an unquestionable right to have as many children as they wish. To have a child, presuming that we won't just let it starve, means imposing a substantial added burden on the world's future, and each extra child imposes a bigger burden that an extra house or car. We don't guarantee everyone the right to as many houses or cars as he or she might desire, and we cannot do this with children either."

Yet he's supposedly for civil rights. I thought the man was pro-choice:
"Antiabortionists have been passing restrictions on abortion in many states.

Christian fanatics are moving to South Carolina with the aim of establishing a theocracy. "

If you're pro-choice, it's the women's choice, not the damn governments. Otherwise don't put yourself under that umbrella. Because you're not really pro-choice.

Although I tip my hat to you RMS, for your wonderful "christian fanatics" bias-inducing comment. Not everyone who is "pro-life" wants a theocracy. Some people feel that if they put "religion" in charge, it would be corrupted and not held accountable, and the situation would be just as "evil" as a secular government.

[Jack2000]

The only thing i hate more than
ignorant fools (with an suv and 2.5 kids straped to suffocation
on the back seat)
are bigots !!!

[anphanax]

The only thing i hate more than
ignorant fools (with an suv and 2.5 kids straped to suffocation
on the back seat)
are bigots !!!

I'm not entirely sure what you meant by this, or what exactly that was directed at, and rather than me make an assumption and end up shoving words down your throat, you can feel free to explain a bit more what you meant.

Is english your primary language, by the way? You said, "straped to suffocation on the back seat." I think I know what you're trying to say, but the grammar and word choice seem a bit odd. Also, I don't want some idiot to come along and call you a "ignorant fool" because you misspelled "strapped".

EDIT: Your location is Bulgaria, that sort of answered the question above .

[Jack2000]

well sorry about my misspelled words but
when i get angry I tend to make a lot of type-o s

With my last post I meant to say
that i hate Christian fanatics(bigots:])
and that i agree with RMS that the mother should
have the final word about her body and not the church or the government.

[anphanax]

From RMS:
"I support China's one-child policy; I do not believe that people have an unquestionable right to have as many children as they wish."

That doesn't sound like the choice of the mother to me, that sounds like the government's choice.

So i'm not sure I understand your previous statement:
"i agree with RMS that the mother should
have the final word about her body and not the church or the government."

Considering RMS seems to be siding with the chinese government on this one.

Also, wouldn't hating "Christian fanatics" make you a bigot? I mean, you seem to be embracing stereotypes (they're all a bunch of bigots) to pre-judge them. I don't hate muslims because of the actions of Usama Bin Laden (no, I don't buy into the neo-conservative conspiracy), and I don't hate christians because of the actions of Fred Phelps. I also don't put all muslims in the same boat as Usama, and say they're all just a bunch of terrorists. And for all the christians out there, very few of them are participating with Fred and holding up "God Hates Faggots" signs.

Making generalizations to attack a group is generally not something one should do. I mean, even if everyone around you from that group seems to fit your description, that doesn't mean there isn't a large group elsewhere that doesn't.

If someone reads this and thinks i'm being an apoligist for religious people's "evil cause", perhaps one shouldn't rationalize their hate of religious people. I know i'm beating a dead horse by saying this, but... attack the idea, not the people (this wasn't directed at anyone, I'm just trying to plan ahead against certian flame-filled posts I might recieve).

[Jack2000]

i see your point
... so he does agree with china , hm ...
I think that religion is for people who believe in it ...
I am sorry but it is just that i live in a country that no one seems to give
a s*it about what a young girl has to say and that drives me crazy (as i too have a sister :])


ps:now that you say it RMS does sound Inconsistent on the idea of civil rights

[piratePenguin]

Who's to say which rights are civil and which are not?

From Wikipedia:

Civil rights are the protections and privileges of personal liberty given to all citizens by law.

Does that not mean that it varies from place to place?

[toadlife]

Bottom line: RMS is a dipshit.

This idiotic statement proves how out of touch he is with reality. Studies have shown that the birth rates are higher in countries where the citizens are more oppressed by their governments. For example, in the US and many European countries, the birth rate is right about even with teh death rate. In the US I think the death rate is actually slightly HIGHER than the birth rate. The only place where the birth rates eclipse the death rate are places like China/India and the middle east where the governments continually fuck their citizens in the ass with idiotic laws and regulations - like the "one child law".

[piratePenguin]

Studies

What studies? We did this stuff in Geography last year, and the government/law never came into it. Wouldn't it have more to do with how wealthy/educated/etc. the people are?

[toadlife]

What studies? We did this stuff in Geography last year, and the government/law never came into it. Wouldn't it have more to do with how wealthy/educated/etc. the people are?

Wish I could point you to one but I can't. All I know is I've heard/read it before. YOur point about it being tied to economic status is probably right - but keep in mind that harsh dictatorships generally feature huge populations of very poor people.

[Kintaro]

Bottom line: RMS is a dipshit.

This idiotic statement proves how out of touch he is with reality. Studies have shown that the birth rates are higher in countries where the citizens are more oppressed by their governments. For example, in the US and many European countries, the birth rate is right about even with teh death rate. In the US I think the death rate is actually slightly HIGHER than the birth rate.

United States:
Birth rate: 14.14 births/1,000 population (2005 est.)

 Death rate: 8.25 deaths/1,000 population (2005 est.)

Wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States

The only place where the birth rates eclipse the death rate are places like China/India and the middle east where the governments continually fuck their citizens in the ass with idiotic laws and regulations - like the "one child law".

China:

Birth rate: 12.98 births/1,000 population (2004 est.)

 Death rate: 6.92 deaths/1,000 population (2004 est.)

You are obviously the one who is out of touch with reality. The fact is China is overpopulated and something needs to be done about that. I think the one child law makes sense, and is reasonable. If you don't like that, go to another country.

[toadlife]

The stats I remember were from a few years ago. Perhaps they have....changed?

[toadlife]

I think piratePenguin is right....

http://www.prb.org/Content/NavigationMenu/PRB/Educators/Human_Population/Population_Growth/Population_Growth.htm

http://www.prb.org/Content/NavigationMenu/PRB/Educators/Human_Population/Future_Growth/Natural_Increase_and_Future_Growth.htm#transition

...population grown has more to do with development of countries. I think the connection to people being opporessed may jsut a coincedence, as less developed countries tend to have more opporessive governments.

Anyhow, my point was that thinking these laws are justified is idiotic, as a more productive way of controlling population growth is to try and promote economic development (i.e. give people something to look forward in life other than fucking) rather than legislate how many children people are allowed to have.

Just look at the fruits of China's "one child law"...

http://www.ezilon.com/information/article_10033.shtml

[toadlife]

Hmm Kintaro. the numbers you posted for the U.S. birth rate were a suprise to me, but I just realized why the United States' birth rate is so high compared to other developed countries.

Immigrants.

Every year in the US 500,000 people come to the U.S. from Mexico alone. They bring with them a birth rates of 21/1000 - and it is probably much higher since the people that come from Mexico are from less developed parts of the country. Other places like Asian coutries also provide a smaller but consistent influx of people from countries with high birth rates. The fertility rate of Caucasians in the state I live in is 1.7/1000 - which is well below the replacement level which is 2.1. You will find that overall birth rate is actually below replacement level in many European countries that don't get the influx of immigrants that the U.S. does.

[Kintaro]

No shit, now, what is your point?