MS entry-level VS Express progs

[hm_murdock]

MS is going to release "Express" editions of several of their VisualStudio dev apps for $49 each... available to anybody. They'll come with "Starter Kits", which are example applications that you can apparently study, and the software will walk you through building them... they're supposed to be fully-completed and useful apps, rather than just cheezey little things that don't really do anything.

I'm actually kind of interested in this. It shows a really interesting shift in MS's product thinking. Rather than a bunch of super-high-end things, they're actually opening up Windows programming to a whole new audience. Perhaps they've seen what happened when Apple bundled Xcode with OS X and new Macs... and there was a huge new influx of software, both commercial, free, and OSS.

[worker201]

That's a long way from actually releasing the complete documentation on how MFC calls interact with the Operating System.  Actually, it sounds like the sort of improvement that will get people to relax about Microsoft's closedness for awhile, so they can pillage the market a little more.  Sorry, but I don't trust those bastards.

[themacuser]

Yeah, Xcode is free and awesome. Go Apple!

[Aloone_Jonez]

MS is going to release "Express" editions of several of their VisualStudio dev apps for $49 each... available to anybody. They'll come with "Starter Kits", which are example applications that you can apparently study, and the software will walk you through building them... they're supposed to be fully-completed and useful apps, rather than just cheezey little things that don't really do anything.

I'm actually kind of interested in this. It shows a really interesting shift in MS's product thinking. Rather than a bunch of super-high-end things, they're actually opening up Windows programming to a whole new audience.

I'm not convinced, how can we be sure that this cut down software will be any good for developing serious applications?

Perhaps they've seen what happened when Apple bundled Xcode with OS X and new Macs... and there was a huge new influx of software, both commercial, free, and OSS.

Why would they want that? More thrid party software = more competition.

I think it really takes the piss how you have to pay the Microsoft tax to develop Windows software. In my oppinion in the interests of competition MS should be forced to make a free way of developing software for Windows that should be able to take advantage of the full API, if they want they could charge extra for debuging tools and optimisation.

[xyle_one]

The mac hasn't seen this much native software in years, maybe forever. Sales are increasing, and not just for the iPod, but actual macs. It seems to me that the more people aren't tied to Apple specific software on their shiny new macs, the more likely someone will make the switch. It is also extremelly easy to develop software on the mac.

[worker201]

The increase in Mac software production may be caused by a new look under the hood.  Before OSX, you couldn't look around and see things, or pop open a terminal and do unixy things.  Now you can, and it is by far OSX's best feature.  Greater access to the inside workings, combined with a great dev environment, combined with a bunch of wide open standards, combined with the usefulness and help of ADC have really pulled Apple to the next level.  And Microsoft cannot follow.

[hm_murdock]

That's a long way from actually releasing the complete documentation on how MFC calls interact with the Operating System. Actually, it sounds like the sort of improvement that will get people to relax about Microsoft's closedness for awhile, so they can pillage the market a little more. Sorry, but I don't trust those bastards.

May be so, but fully-functioning VisualStudio apps for $49... actually... free until November 7, 2006.

I'm not convinced, how can we be sure that this cut down software will be any good for developing serious applications?

Because it's the same as the other apps, however lacking the documentation (replacing it with interactive tutorials in Help files), and phone support subscriptions.

I've tried VB Express and VC++ Express, and they carry the full feature set of the others.

[Aloone_Jonez]

Just thinking, whatever happent to Borland? Didn't they used to be a big competitor to MS, did they get shafted or something?