Author Topic: Linux vs Windows a real life comparison  (Read 14080 times)

ghostofra

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Re: Linux vs Windows a real life comparison
« Reply #60 on: 21 December 2005, 04:52 »
It will awlays be SuSe linux for me I will nevever look back at winblow$

Freedom from windows, Linux is the way to go.

themacuser

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Re: Linux vs Windows a real life comparison
« Reply #61 on: 31 December 2005, 13:08 »
Why does it seem that people are defending Windows in this argument?

What I think is that any operating system that has to be tweaked and have tons of stuff installed to make it work is stupid. Mac OS X and Linux just work out of the box. Windows almost never behaves in my experience. You can never be bored if you have a Windows machine.

Linux and Mac OS X have decent default settings. Mac OS X doesn't have stupid services running, or everything bound to all ports. Mac OS X doesn't have tons of crap running that you can remove to save ram with no ill effects. Linux doesn't either.

Windows is seriously rubbish. I'd rather use Linux in qemu or vmware on a Windows machine (and I do try to...).
I'm often asked why I hate Microsoft - "What did they ever do to you?". Well, I'll tell you. They made dodgy programs and standards which have wasted hundreds of hours of my time involving lost work in crashes and stupidity.

piratePenguin

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Re: Linux vs Windows a real life comparison
« Reply #62 on: 31 December 2005, 13:18 »
Quote from: themacuser
Why does it seem that people are defending Windows in this argument?

What I think is that any operating system that has to be tweaked and have tons of stuff installed to make it work is stupid. Mac OS X and Linux just work out of the box. Windows almost never behaves in my experience. You can never be bored if you have a Windows machine.

Linux and Mac OS X have decent default settings. Mac OS X doesn't have stupid services running, or everything bound to all ports. Mac OS X doesn't have tons of crap running that you can remove to save ram with no ill effects. Linux doesn't either.
We all totally needed that kick back to reality.

They argue that Windows isn't so bad after an hour or so of disabling broken Windows shit, bit of a problem there. Nothing is so bad when you don't use it ;)
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Windows is seriously rubbish. I'd rather use Linux in qemu or vmware on a Windows machine (and I do try to...).
Ever try using VNC to connect to your home computer?
"What you share with the world is what it keeps of you."
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a poem by my computer, Macintosh Vigilante
Macintosh amends a damned around the requested typewriter. Macintosh urges a scarce design. Macintosh postulates an autobiography. Macintosh tolls the solo variant. Why does a winter audience delay macintosh? The maker tosses macintosh. Beneath female suffers a double scum. How will a rat cube the heavier cricket? Macintosh calls a method. Can macintosh nest opposite the headache? Macintosh ties the wrong fairy. When can macintosh stem the land gang? Female aborts underneath macintosh. Inside macintosh waffles female. Next to macintosh worries a well.

Orethrius

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Re: Linux vs Windows a real life comparison
« Reply #63 on: 31 December 2005, 21:42 »
Quote from: piratePenguin
Ever try using VNC to connect to your home computer?


Actually, how's FreeNX coming along? ;)

Proudly posted from a Gentoo Linux system.

Quote from: Calum
even if you're renting you've got more rights than if you're using windows.

System Vitals

piratePenguin

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Re: Linux vs Windows a real life comparison
« Reply #64 on: 1 January 2006, 00:38 »
Quote from: Orethrius
Actually, how's FreeNX coming along? ;)
I've never used it (probably would have if my old computer worked, but it wasn't meant to be).

I've only ever gotten a graphical connection to a remote computer once, Lead Head let me into his via VNC, and I seized the opportunity to look at lots and lots of porn :)
"What you share with the world is what it keeps of you."
 - Noah And The Whale: Give a little love



a poem by my computer, Macintosh Vigilante
Macintosh amends a damned around the requested typewriter. Macintosh urges a scarce design. Macintosh postulates an autobiography. Macintosh tolls the solo variant. Why does a winter audience delay macintosh? The maker tosses macintosh. Beneath female suffers a double scum. How will a rat cube the heavier cricket? Macintosh calls a method. Can macintosh nest opposite the headache? Macintosh ties the wrong fairy. When can macintosh stem the land gang? Female aborts underneath macintosh. Inside macintosh waffles female. Next to macintosh worries a well.

toadlife

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Re: Linux vs Windows a real life comparison
« Reply #65 on: 2 January 2006, 00:27 »
Quote from: themacuser
Why does it seem that people are defending Windows in this argument?

Because people like you are completely ignorant of Windows and how it works. You are all living in a fantasy world - Your own little propaganda circlejerk, where you shoot your loads of falsehood at eashother and gobble it up with big smiles.

Quote from: themacuser
What I think is that any operating system that has to be tweaked and have tons of stuff installed to make it work is stupid.

Well then you must really hate linux and BSD. Tell me Mr. Windows expert. What exactly do you need to "tweak" in Windows to make it work?

Quote from: themacuser
Mac OS X doesn't have tons of crap running that you can remove to save ram with no ill effects.

Netiher does Windows. What OS are you talking about here?
:)

Siplus

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Re: Linux vs Windows a real life comparison
« Reply #66 on: 2 January 2006, 02:42 »
Quote from: toadlife


Netiher does Windows. What OS are you talking about here?


Actually, many of my windows-using-friends almost religiously hit ctrl-alt-del to stop TONS of processes before starting up games


http://www.siplus.org

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piratePenguin

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Re: Linux vs Windows a real life comparison
« Reply #67 on: 2 January 2006, 02:59 »
Quote from: toadlife
Because people like you are completely ignorant of Windows and how it works. You are all living in a fantasy world - Your own little propaganda circlejerk, where you shoot your loads of falsehood at eashother and gobble it up with big smiles.
Ofcourse! Because people don't have bad experiences with Windows! Now it all makes sense! If you ever do have a bad experience with Windows, blame yourself and your shabby seven years experience! Maybe in ten years time you'll know more and you won't ever have any bad experiences with Windows again!

I think themacuser knows that there are two sides to every coin (even if he kinda said otherwise), so stop with the shit-speak please.

I might qualify as "like themacuser", but I'm not "completely ignorant of Windows and how it works". Is there a slight possibility that maybe you're ignorant of how Windows doesn't work, and that's the main difference between us? Or maybe you've never had a single problem with Windows?

I've used Windows for over seven years, if I'm completely ignorant of how it works then so is most Windows users with seven years of experience (I'm quite-curious about how things work (especially, and especially how computers work)) with it. And let's not forget that good operating systems don't require you to be completely alert as to how they work (for most people, that'd be quite the challenge).

After using Windows for seven years, I didn't like it. Had some bad experiences with it, didn't like it. themacuser also stated that he had bad experiences with it. Is there a problem with that?

themacuser brought up some good points and justified at least the general idea of what he said in the beginning (I wouldn't be so sure that he/any sensible being believes that Windows doesn't have a single thing going for it - even if that's what he said).
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Well then you must really hate linux and BSD.
That's not right, it's down to the distribution. He sure as hell won't like Slackware or NetBSD, but he might like Ubuntu or DesktopBSD.
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Tell me Mr. Windows expert. What exactly do you need to "tweak" in Windows to make it work?
Where the hell have you been the last seven months? There's been alot of arguments against Windows since my arrival, and the general response Windows supporters give is (this doesn't count for the things Windows lacks, e.g. decent memory management and a half-decent firewall) "oh but if you disable X it's not so bad" (e.g. Internet Explorer and ActiveX). Aloone_Jonez even posted a long post about how to make Windows more secure.

Just try running a Windows system with default everything (so there's no tweaks. Although I don't know exactly what themacuser meant by "tweaks".), get it on the internet (you can update Windows, I presume),  do some crap with it, and see how it handles. For a start, you're using a superuser account, so you're seriously vulnerable. ActiveX and Javascript will be enabled in IE too, you're more vulnerable, and you are seriously FUCKED if you land on the wrong website.

I don't know what you or themacuser mean, exactly, by "work", but Windows without any tweaks is not a safe place to be, so at this point I don't give two fucks how it "works" (whatever that may mean).

Conclusion: If, for whatever retarded reason (most reasons I got from people for using Windows are retarted, in that they don't use it because it's better than the competition. But then Microsoft is a monopoly, so what's to be expected?), you must use Windows, TWEAK IT (or suffer)! I shouldn't have to say that for a good operating system, and I don't have to say it for most GNU/Linux distributions I've used or Mac OS X.

EDIT:
Quote

Tell me Mr. Windows expert. What exactly do you need to "tweak" in Windows to make it work?
@themacuser, you don't need to answer that question, toadlife already mostly did.
Quote from: toadlife
H_TeXMeX_H, I said I'd tell you how to keep a Windows box clean.....here ya go....

How to keep your Windows box secure

* Do not log on as an administrator. Create a limited account for yourself and USE IT religiously.

* When something doesn't work under your limited account, find out why it doesn't work and make the proper adjustments.

If in the rare case that you have a program that can't run under a limited account, make a shortcut that launches it under an admin account

* Install updates regularly

* Refrain from using Internet Explorer

* Run AV

* Run some sort of firewall (software/NAT router/etc) that blocks unsolicited connections from the internet


How to keep your Windows box stable

* Instead of bitching about them like a baby, learn how to troubleshoot windows kernel panics ("Blue screens")

Like linux and BSD and jsut about any other MODERN OS, OS crashes in Windows are almost allways caused by faulty hardware or drivers. If you are getting random reboots, do the following:

1) Log on as an admin
2) Right click on "My Computer"
3) Click on the "Advanced" tab
4) Click on settings by "Startup and recovery"
5) Uncheck the "Automatically Reboot" checkbox

Now, instead of rebooting, you computer will display a pretty blue screen with lots of informative information when it crashes. Use the information and Google to toubleshoot your problem. If your blue screen doesn't point to a specific driver, then you might have bad hardware. memtest86
is a good open source app for testing memory.

* Make sure all of the latest drivers for your hardware are installed.
* See above in the security section about not logging on as admin.

Buggy programs can sometimes do things by accident that will hose your system. Running them as a non admin will keep badly written programs from doing nasty things like corrupting your registry or deleting system files.

* Back Up your system state every once in awhile.

Sometimes when you install a new driver, the install doesn't go so well, or the driver just plain doesn't work and it will cause your computer to bluescreen on boot. backing up your system state using the built in backup utility before installing new drivers is a good way to revert back after a failed driver install. Safe mode should keep the dodgy driver from loading at boot. The neat thing about backing up your system state is that is creates a backup of your registry in "C:\WINDOWS\repair" that you can restore from the recovery console... (by copying the files over to "C:\WINDOWS\system32\config") so if you system get REALLY hosed and even safe mode doesn't work, you can still go into the recovery console and restore a known good copy of your registry.
















[rant]
Don't bitch like a baby when something doesn't work under your limited account. I hear this all the time from Windows users when someone tells them to not log on as admin. "But so and so doesn't work unless I'm admin!!" the whiny botches say. Well tough shit. You run Windows, not OSX. You asked how to make your machine secure. If you don't like the answer then shut the fuck up and use linux or buy an Apple! Lots of things do not work in linux/unix under regular accounts without having to adjust permissions or set SUID bits. Linux users don't log on as root to do their emailing/porn-surfing in linux just because certain apps they use neet root or a SUID bit set...why should Windows users?[/rant]
« Last Edit: 2 January 2006, 03:37 by piratePenguin »
"What you share with the world is what it keeps of you."
 - Noah And The Whale: Give a little love



a poem by my computer, Macintosh Vigilante
Macintosh amends a damned around the requested typewriter. Macintosh urges a scarce design. Macintosh postulates an autobiography. Macintosh tolls the solo variant. Why does a winter audience delay macintosh? The maker tosses macintosh. Beneath female suffers a double scum. How will a rat cube the heavier cricket? Macintosh calls a method. Can macintosh nest opposite the headache? Macintosh ties the wrong fairy. When can macintosh stem the land gang? Female aborts underneath macintosh. Inside macintosh waffles female. Next to macintosh worries a well.

toadlife

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Re: Linux vs Windows a real life comparison
« Reply #68 on: 2 January 2006, 06:54 »
If you consider the things that I wrote 'tweaking', then fine by me. Macs don't have to be tweaked because there is no software written for it to cause them to have to be tweaked. Insinuating that linux never needs to be tweaked is just hilarious. Linux needs to be updated just like Windows does. Macs need to be updated too. The only downside to Windows, security-wise is that it is not protected by herd immunity, like linux, Mac and other obscure OS's.
:)

hm_murdock

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Re: Linux vs Windows a real life comparison
« Reply #69 on: 2 January 2006, 07:23 »
What kind of software requires one of these mythical tweaks?
Go the fuck ~

piratePenguin

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Re: Linux vs Windows a real life comparison
« Reply #70 on: 2 January 2006, 07:52 »
Quote from: toadlife
Macs don't have to be tweaked because there is no software written for it to cause them to have to be tweaked.
After installing Mac OS X you get mostly-sane defaults (services disabled and a user account setup). After installing Windows you get completely braindead defaults (even muzzy said so himself), and the user needs to setup a non-root account and a firewall to be half-safe (this, I think, is the kinda tweaking themacuser was talking about).
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Insinuating that linux never needs to be tweaked is just hilarious.
Like I said, it depends on the distribution and what you want to do. I wouldn't ever say that any distribution "never" needs to be tweaked, but you don't have to do any tweaking to be safe.
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Linux needs to be updated just like Windows does. Macs need to be updated too.
I don't think updating would be tweaking, I hinted that in my post.
Quote

The only downside to Windows, security-wise is that it is not protected by herd immunity, like linux, Mac and other obscure OS's.
That may be arguably true except for the "the only..." bit. That's just completely retarded and ignorant of the discussion at hand.
"What you share with the world is what it keeps of you."
 - Noah And The Whale: Give a little love



a poem by my computer, Macintosh Vigilante
Macintosh amends a damned around the requested typewriter. Macintosh urges a scarce design. Macintosh postulates an autobiography. Macintosh tolls the solo variant. Why does a winter audience delay macintosh? The maker tosses macintosh. Beneath female suffers a double scum. How will a rat cube the heavier cricket? Macintosh calls a method. Can macintosh nest opposite the headache? Macintosh ties the wrong fairy. When can macintosh stem the land gang? Female aborts underneath macintosh. Inside macintosh waffles female. Next to macintosh worries a well.

toadlife

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Re: Linux vs Windows a real life comparison
« Reply #71 on: 2 January 2006, 08:08 »
Quote from: piratePenguin
After installing Mac OS X you get mostly-sane defaults (services disabled and a user account setup). After installing Windows you get completely braindead defaults (even muzzy said so himself), and the user needs to setup a non-root account and a firewall to be half-safe (this, I think, is the kinda tweaking themacuser was talking about).

Okay setting up an account is tweaking. Fine. XP comes with the firewall turned on by defult now, so that argument is down the tube.


Quote
That may be arguably true except for the "the only..." bit. That's just completely retarded and ignorant of the discussion at hand.

I totally agree, the default user privledge is bad. But what else? PLease tell me.
:)

piratePenguin

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Re: Linux vs Windows a real life comparison
« Reply #72 on: 2 January 2006, 08:33 »
Quote from: toadlife
XP comes with the firewall turned on by defult now, so that argument is down the tube.
Yea I guess casual users won't have to do a thing. What does one do, though, if they wanna allow connections in only through port 80 (while blocking all other ports) and are unlucky enough to be using Windows? Unless there's something I'm missing it's not even possible with the Windows firewall, but there could well be something I'm missing (we're talking about very basic and quite-popular firewall configurability here.). The poor ass would have to use a different firewall.
Quote
I totally agree, the default user privledge is bad. But what else? PLease tell me.
Internet Explorer (insecure ActiveX and apparently insecure Javascript enabled by default. And then the fact that it's shit.). Also, I remember getting MSN messenger to fuck off back in the day was a challenge not for the faint of heart.
"What you share with the world is what it keeps of you."
 - Noah And The Whale: Give a little love



a poem by my computer, Macintosh Vigilante
Macintosh amends a damned around the requested typewriter. Macintosh urges a scarce design. Macintosh postulates an autobiography. Macintosh tolls the solo variant. Why does a winter audience delay macintosh? The maker tosses macintosh. Beneath female suffers a double scum. How will a rat cube the heavier cricket? Macintosh calls a method. Can macintosh nest opposite the headache? Macintosh ties the wrong fairy. When can macintosh stem the land gang? Female aborts underneath macintosh. Inside macintosh waffles female. Next to macintosh worries a well.

toadlife

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Re: Linux vs Windows a real life comparison
« Reply #73 on: 2 January 2006, 10:55 »
Quote from: piratePenguin
Yea I guess casual users won't have to do a thing. What does one do, though, if they wanna allow connections in only through port 80 (while blocking all other ports) and are unlucky enough to be using Windows? Unless there's something I'm missing it's not even possible with the Windows firewall,

Of course that's posbbile with Windows firewall. When opening ports you can also specificy which addreses can access that port.

Quote
Internet Explorer (insecure ActiveX and apparently insecure Javascript enabled by default. And then the fact that it's shit.).

But, ActiveX flaws cannot be exploited if the user isn't running as admin. Admin access is required to install ActiveX controls. See what I was saying when I said the only problem with Windows is the default security level. ActiveX flaws become nonexistrent when you browse as a regular user. As for javascript sploits, the've been discovered for pretty much all browsers, so I don't see the why you would single out MS on that one.
:)

piratePenguin

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Re: Linux vs Windows a real life comparison
« Reply #74 on: 2 January 2006, 11:18 »
Quote from: toadlife
Of course that's posbbile with Windows firewall. When opening ports you can also specificy which addreses can access that port.
Interesting, I never knew that, but I never used the Windows firewall much. Whenever I saw it I thought it was either on or off and that's it.
And I thought the Windows firewall was completely crap ;)
(can't beat iptables)
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But, ActiveX flaws cannot be exploited if the user isn't running as admin. Admin access is required to install ActiveX controls. See what I was saying when I said the only problem with Windows is the default security level. ActiveX flaws become nonexistrent when you browse as a regular user.
Maybe, maybe. But it's still more tweaking than required on most GNU/Linux distributions and Mac OS X.

EDIT: Why does muzzy and Aloone_Jonez disable ActiveX if it's not a security issue with their limited accounts?
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As for javascript sploits, the've been discovered for pretty much all browsers, so I don't see the why you would single out MS on that one.
Well muzzy has stated (IIRC, this was a long time ago) that he's disabled Javascipt in IE and anytime he absolutely must view a Javascripted page he goes to the bother of starting up Firefox. That's why.
« Last Edit: 2 January 2006, 11:24 by piratePenguin »
"What you share with the world is what it keeps of you."
 - Noah And The Whale: Give a little love



a poem by my computer, Macintosh Vigilante
Macintosh amends a damned around the requested typewriter. Macintosh urges a scarce design. Macintosh postulates an autobiography. Macintosh tolls the solo variant. Why does a winter audience delay macintosh? The maker tosses macintosh. Beneath female suffers a double scum. How will a rat cube the heavier cricket? Macintosh calls a method. Can macintosh nest opposite the headache? Macintosh ties the wrong fairy. When can macintosh stem the land gang? Female aborts underneath macintosh. Inside macintosh waffles female. Next to macintosh worries a well.