The Vandalisation of Windows

[Aloone_Jonez]

http://www.itwriting.com/winvandals.php

Most articles I've read just bitch about Windows and don't get to the true, this article is great, I completely agree with it 100%. Windows isn't inherently insecure, it's just that Microsoft has provided retarded default settings that give the average user little choice but to run an insecure set up.

[piratePenguin]

Even muzzy says Windows blows!


(kinda)

[Jack2000]

yup
the easy way
is the bad way!

[Aloone_Jonez]

Even muzzy says Windows blows!
(kinda)

Well about 50% I recon.

The sad thing is Windows has the potential to be a very good operating system (better than UNIX in many ways) but MS won't let this happen. Just think of the tools and features that could be added?

One of the most shittyest things is you have to pay for 3rd part products that should be shipped with the OS like  theming, a decent programming language, and registry management tool. Windows is far worse for things MS has left out rather than the shit they've added.

[piratePenguin]

The Windows firewall doesn't compete with iptables. You can barely configure it. Firewalls are important, and every operating system connected to a network should have a very fucking good one. Especially Windows. Is there something I'm missing about the Windows firewall or is it really just plain shit?

In Windows, can you renice (i.e. change the priority of) processes? I like to renice processes e.g. when I'm compiling something big and I don't want GAIM to run the slightest bit slow. Can you do this in Windows? I don't remember seeing anything like this in the Task Manager, but I never searched for it.

Simple things like these (I suspect that they wouldn't be so simple to implement.) are important. They tell you that the design of specific bits of the operating system probably don't completely suck, as well as being useful.

I just think Windows sucks, and that it doesn't compete with real operating systems like GNU/Linux or FreeBSD on any level but a few that only retards* feel are important, which is why retards are attracted to Windows.

* This term used loosely.

[worker201]

Hmmmm.  I suppose so.  Yes, you can bottle up your computer, and enforce permissions, and all that.  That might make Windows a bit more secure.  But I don't think that makes it a good operating system.  Plenty of reasons for this opinion, and it has more to do with modularity and process control and separation of OS and applications, none of which Windows does well.  And let's not even get started on memory management, because it doesn't exist.

So yeah, you can take steps to make Windows better.  But you can only go so far.  And that's not a source issue, that's a system design issue.  One more reason why Windows is not allowed to enter my home.

[H_TeXMeX_H]

The sad thing is Windows has the potential to be a very good operating system (better than UNIX in many ways) but MS won't let this happen.

Not quite ... Winblow$ has serious design flaws ... there's not too much you can do make it better.

[worker201]

But those design flaws are from a definitional standpoint.  I agree with that guy's idea of what an operating system should be, and what it should not be.  But maybe Aloone Jonez doesn't.  So I won't overtly say that "Windows is a flawed design".  It would be more appropriate to say that "Windows is incapable of meeting my expectations for an operating system".  Both have the same result.

[dmcfarland]

Windows isnt going to get better util there is a viable alternative to M$. Competition breed innovation.

[worker201]

Windows isnt going to get better util there is a viable alternative to M$. Competition breed innovation.

That's just what the capitalist technocratic whores want you to believe.  Giving smart people lots of money to do cool stuff without marketing or boss pressure is truly what breeds innovation.  Which is why guys programming in their spare time are revolutionizing the computer industry, while the corporate marketing companies like Microsoft get slammed.

[dmcfarland]

Microsoft is anti-capitalist by virtue of its business practices. Its one thing to compete. Its another thing to use illegal business practices and Gestopo like tactics in order to be the corner the IT market.

[Aloone_Jonez]

piratePenguin, worker201 and H_TeXMeX_H,
I didn't say that Windows would become beter than UNIX or it'd be perfect. I said it could be better than UNIX in some ways and it already is.

Here are the main advantages Windows has to offer.

These are the only  advantages of Windows, personally I'd rather use a more secure and stable operating system.

While this is still true, I've managed to improve this myself by using a limited, account, dissabling some services and not using a memory resident anti-virus.

About the memory allocation issue you've highlighted:
I personally don't have these problems because I don't run any big programs like large image and film editing software, but colleagues of mine at work have. The memory protection, registry and security problems have improved in slightly Windows 2000 and XP, however I can't see MS fixing them properly (especially the running everything as root issue).

If another company took control of Windows then these disadvantages could be minimised. I don't think open sourcing it would be a good idea unless one main party still remained in control of the entire OS to prevent inconsistency issues (Linux has these).

[piratePenguin]

personally I'd rather use a more secure and stable operating system.

You mean like GNU/Linux and FreeBSD?

Even though Windows isn't as stable or secure as UNIX it has a better desktop

I don't think so.

For example OLE is consistent across the Windows platform this isn't the case with UNIX, and the clipboard is another example, let's not forget drag and drop.

I know not-much about OLE and the alternatives, so I won't comment on that. As for the the clipboard, I can copy and paste between Firefox and Konqueror and GAIM and Konsole and xterm. I remember you brought up Inkscape in relation to this before.

Note that Inkscape has its own internal clipboard; it does not use the system clipboard except for copying/pasting text by the Text tool.

source
That explains that.

KDE applications don't communicate with the GNOME desktop very well and vice versa

In what ways? Alot has changed recently.

dependences also aren't a problem with Windows.

That's what I used to believe, but not anymore (something I read in the packaging standards thread). I'm sure there are Ubuntu users who don't even know what dependencies are.

As I've mentioned before Windows XP boots faster than most OSs.

I don't think boot-speed is all that important. But any GNU/Linux user that does can just optimize their init scripts or use initng (I use initng myself. I just decided to try it and now I couldn't be fucked changing it (nothing wrong with the way it is). It boots in about the same time as the usual sysvinit (six seconds when I last compared (which was before I had much stuff starting at boot)) because I start so little stuff at boot.

[Aloone_Jonez]

I know not-much about OLE and the alternatives, so I won't comment on that.

OLE stands for object linking and embedding, it enables you to embed objects from other applications in documents and then edit them using the respective application. For example I could paste a MS paint picture into a MS Word document then click on it and a MS paint tool bad apears enabling me to edit the picture, of course this isn't just restricted to MS software Correl Draw does the same thing.

As for the the clipboard, I can copy and paste between Firefox and Konqueror and GAIM and Konsole and xterm.

So big deal?
Exchanging text between applicaions is easy (both UNIX and even DOS can do this in the form of pipes), what about objects? Can you copy something from the Gimp then paste it into OpenOffice, click on it and edit it?

I remember you brought up Inkscape in relation to this before.source
That explains that.

No it doesn't, you've missed the point, even DOS applications allow cut and paste but what they don't allow DDE (dynamic data exchange) between programs and neither does UNIX (well as far as I'm aware anyway).

Can you copy objects  from Inkscape, past them into ABI Word, click on them and edit them again in Inkscape?

Come to think of it this is probably why OpenOffice was designed the way it is. The word processor, spread sheet and drawing package are all one module because if they weren't then could couldn't insert drawings and spread sheets into Writer and then edit them. OpenOffice uses more memory than MS Office because of this, if UNIX supported DDE then OO would probably be faster and more efficient but it isn't.

In what ways?

The main one that springs to mind is drag and drop, I found it very frustrating how I couldn't drop a file from KDE to OpenOffice of ABI Word and edit it.

Alot has changed recently.

Has the aforementioned changed?
I haven't used Linux properly for a year or so now so I personally don't know.

That's what I used to believe, but not anymore (something I read in the packaging standards thread). I'm sure there are Ubuntu users who don't even know what dependencies are.

I personally haven't had this problem although I'm not denying the fact it does exist, all I know is I've found it harder to install Linux stuff than Windows stuff. There again I am more familular with Windows but I don't see how this makes that much differance most things are simple, download the package and run it as administrator, and if it's good software it'll work, there's no fucking around looking for on that suites your distro or compiling. I blame MS for this as well as the vendors, there's a Microsoft package system for Windows but the silly software vendors don't use it.

I don't think boot-speed is all that important.

It's very important if you don't waste electricity leaving your system running 24/7.

But any GNU/Linux user that does can just optimize their init scripts or use initng (I use initng myself. I just decided to try it and now I couldn't be fucked changing it (nothing wrong with the way it is). It boots in about the same time as the usual sysvinit (six seconds when I last compared (which was before I had much stuff starting at boot)) because I start so little stuff at boot.

We've already discussed this before, I think we decided that boot speed is highly variable, it depends on how you configure your operating system, and Linux and BSD are more variable than Windows because they're more configurable which I know is an advantage.

A lot of Window's problems are caused by its legacy of allowing the user and programs complete control of the system. UNIX's lack of desktop ability is also due to its legacy of being a text based operating system, it wasn't originally designed with the desktop in mind just as Windows wasn't originally designed with security in mind. Yes, a lot has changed recently Windows has become more secure and UNIX has become more desktop friendly but both OS's have a fair way to go on both issues.

[piratePenguin]

OLE stands for object linking and embedding, it enables you to embed objects from other applications in documents and then edit them using the respective application. For example I could paste a MS paint picture into a MS Word document then click on it and a MS paint tool bad apears enabling me to edit the picture, of course this isn't just restricted to MS software Correl Draw does the same thing.

I think I see what you mean (literally).

So big deal?
Exchanging text between applicaions is easy (both UNIX and even DOS can do this in the form of pipes), what about objects? Can you copy something from the Gimp then paste it into OpenOffice, click on it and edit it?

I don't have OpenOffice so I don't know. Although, I can tell you can't copy from the GIMP into Krita (IMO Krita is shit anyhow. It's unstable and I prefer the GIMP's interface. I think they've alot of polishing to do, and alot of completing-things to do. Who says pasting from the GIMP is so hard?  It could be on the roadmap, approx. 2,000 years down the line (that is: when they fix the stability issues), for all we know. If you do (say pasting from the GIMP is so hard), then I hope you can explain why.).

I can't tell you about pasting from Krita to the GIMP, because after I tried to copy in Krita, low and behold, it crashed.

DOS

Everyone in the DOS world uses the same clipboard and stuff, I would guess.

Can you copy objects  from Inkscape

No, only text in Inkscape gets to the outside world, because it uses it's own internal clipboard.

past them into ABI Word, click on them and edit them again in Inkscape?

Could you do that easilly (i.e. almost-naturally) if both Inkscape and Abiword were made primarally for Windows (and made use of all it's API/stuff)?

Come to think of it this is probably why OpenOffice was designed the way it is. The word processor, spread sheet and drawing package are all one module because if they weren't then could couldn't insert drawings and spread sheets into Writer and then edit them. OpenOffice uses more memory than MS Office because of this, if UNIX supported DDE then OO would probably be faster and more efficient but it isn't.

Maybe. But KOffice is many different binaries (they share some core libraries) just like MS Office.

The main one that springs to mind is drag and drop, I found it very frustrating how I couldn't drop a file from KDE to OpenOffice of ABI Word and edit it.

Hopefully not too-frustrating. Otherwise, I could put you in contact with a good shrink.

Has the aforementioned changed?

I dunno. But back when I was on good ol' Mandrake things sure-were worse. Thankfully it wasn't all that hard to steer away from GNOME apps.

It's very important if you don't waste electricity leaving your system running 24/7.

I don't leave my computer on 24/7.

The electricity went off 'bout an hour ago and I timed the computer booting up. 16s to GDM login. Then probably about 10 seconds (max) for GNOME to be fully started up.

A lot of Window's problems are caused by its legacy of allowing the user and programs complete control of the system. UNIX's lack of desktop ability is also due to its legacy of being a text based operating system, it wasn't originally designed with the desktop in mind just as Windows wasn't originally designed with security in mind. Yes, a lot has changed recently Windows has become more secure and UNIX has become more desktop friendly but both OS's have a fair way to go on both issues.

Well if the problems you're describing with the GNU/Linux desktops were fixed, I wouldn't even notice. For my uses, the system is close to perfect, and for alot of other peoples uses too. How many people find Windows stability (I've had alot of issues with Windows' stability. I dunno if it's the hardware, it could be, but not all the time. Right clicking on a folder and explorer fcks up making Windows go shit-slow (again)... wtf?) close to perfect?

Microsoft did all the important-for selling things first. I think that could partly-explain why Windows sucks so bad. My Windows experience is haunted by stability and security issues, and being treated like a fucking retard too. If lack of DDE/OLE haunts you, get help.