All Things Microsoft > Microsoft Software

The Vandalisation of Windows

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dmcfarland:
Microsoft is anti-capitalist by virtue of its business practices. Its one thing to compete. Its another thing to use illegal business practices and Gestopo like tactics in order to be the corner the IT market.

Aloone_Jonez:
piratePenguin, worker201 and H_TeXMeX_H,
I didn't say that Windows would become beter than UNIX or it'd be perfect. I said it could be better than UNIX in some ways and it already is.

Here are the main advantages Windows has to offer.


--- Quote from: me ---These are the only  advantages of Windows, personally I'd rather use a more secure and stable operating system.
--- End quote ---

While this is still true, I've managed to improve this myself by using a limited, account, dissabling some services and not using a memory resident anti-virus.

About the memory allocation issue you've highlighted:
I personally don't have these problems because I don't run any big programs like large image and film editing software, but colleagues of mine at work have. The memory protection, registry and security problems have improved in slightly Windows 2000 and XP, however I can't see MS fixing them properly (especially the running everything as root issue).

If another company took control of Windows then these disadvantages could be minimised. I don't think open sourcing it would be a good idea unless one main party still remained in control of the entire OS to prevent inconsistency issues (Linux has these).

piratePenguin:

--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez ---personally I'd rather use a more secure and stable operating system.
--- End quote ---
You mean like GNU/Linux and FreeBSD?

--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez ---Even though Windows isn't as stable or secure as UNIX it has a better desktop
--- End quote ---
I don't think so.

--- Quote ---For example OLE is consistent across the Windows platform this isn't the case with UNIX, and the clipboard is another example, let's not forget drag and drop.
--- End quote ---
I know not-much about OLE and the alternatives, so I won't comment on that. As for the the clipboard, I can copy and paste between Firefox and Konqueror and GAIM and Konsole and xterm. I remember you brought up Inkscape in relation to this before.
--- Quote ---Note that Inkscape has its own internal clipboard; it does not use the system clipboard except for copying/pasting text by the Text tool.
--- End quote ---
source
That explains that.
--- Quote ---KDE applications don't communicate with the GNOME desktop very well and vice versa
--- End quote ---
In what ways? Alot has changed recently.
--- Quote ---dependences also aren't a problem with Windows.
--- End quote ---
That's what I used to believe, but not anymore (something I read in the packaging standards thread). I'm sure there are Ubuntu users who don't even know what dependencies are.
--- Quote ---As I've mentioned before Windows XP boots faster than most OSs.
--- End quote ---
I don't think boot-speed is all that important. But any GNU/Linux user that does can just optimize their init scripts or use initng (I use initng myself. I just decided to try it and now I couldn't be fucked changing it (nothing wrong with the way it is). It boots in about the same time as the usual sysvinit (six seconds when I last compared (which was before I had much stuff starting at boot)) because I start so little stuff at boot.

Aloone_Jonez:

--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---
I know not-much about OLE and the alternatives, so I won't comment on that.
--- End quote ---


OLE stands for object linking and embedding, it enables you to embed objects from other applications in documents and then edit them using the respective application. For example I could paste a MS paint picture into a MS Word document then click on it and a MS paint tool bad apears enabling me to edit the picture, of course this isn't just restricted to MS software Correl Draw does the same thing.


--- Quote from: piratePenguin --- As for the the clipboard, I can copy and paste between Firefox and Konqueror and GAIM and Konsole and xterm.
--- End quote ---

So big deal?
Exchanging text between applicaions is easy (both UNIX and even DOS can do this in the form of pipes), what about objects? Can you copy something from the Gimp then paste it into OpenOffice, click on it and edit it?


--- Quote from: piratePenguin --- I remember you brought up Inkscape in relation to this before.source
That explains that.
--- End quote ---

No it doesn't, you've missed the point, even DOS applications allow cut and paste but what they don't allow DDE (dynamic data exchange) between programs and neither does UNIX (well as far as I'm aware anyway).

Can you copy objects  from Inkscape, past them into ABI Word, click on them and edit them again in Inkscape?

Come to think of it this is probably why OpenOffice was designed the way it is. The word processor, spread sheet and drawing package are all one module because if they weren't then could couldn't insert drawings and spread sheets into Writer and then edit them. OpenOffice uses more memory than MS Office because of this, if UNIX supported DDE then OO would probably be faster and more efficient but it isn't.


--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---In what ways?
--- End quote ---

The main one that springs to mind is drag and drop, I found it very frustrating how I couldn't drop a file from KDE to OpenOffice of ABI Word and edit it.


--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---Alot has changed recently.
--- End quote ---

Has the aforementioned changed?
I haven't used Linux properly for a year or so now so I personally don't know.


--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---That's what I used to believe, but not anymore (something I read in the packaging standards thread). I'm sure there are Ubuntu users who don't even know what dependencies are.
--- End quote ---

I personally haven't had this problem although I'm not denying the fact it does exist, all I know is I've found it harder to install Linux stuff than Windows stuff. There again I am more familular with Windows but I don't see how this makes that much differance most things are simple, download the package and run it as administrator, and if it's good software it'll work, there's no fucking around looking for on that suites your distro or compiling. I blame MS for this as well as the vendors, there's a Microsoft package system for Windows but the silly software vendors don't use it.


--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---I don't think boot-speed is all that important.
--- End quote ---

It's very important if you don't waste electricity leaving your system running 24/7.


--- Quote from: piratePenguin --- But any GNU/Linux user that does can just optimize their init scripts or use initng (I use initng myself. I just decided to try it and now I couldn't be fucked changing it (nothing wrong with the way it is). It boots in about the same time as the usual sysvinit (six seconds when I last compared (which was before I had much stuff starting at boot)) because I start so little stuff at boot.
--- End quote ---

We've already discussed this before, I think we decided that boot speed is highly variable, it depends on how you configure your operating system, and Linux and BSD are more variable than Windows because they're more configurable which I know is an advantage.

A lot of Window's problems are caused by its legacy of allowing the user and programs complete control of the system. UNIX's lack of desktop ability is also due to its legacy of being a text based operating system, it wasn't originally designed with the desktop in mind just as Windows wasn't originally designed with security in mind. Yes, a lot has changed recently Windows has become more secure and UNIX has become more desktop friendly but both OS's have a fair way to go on both issues.

piratePenguin:

--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez ---OLE stands for object linking and embedding, it enables you to embed objects from other applications in documents and then edit them using the respective application. For example I could paste a MS paint picture into a MS Word document then click on it and a MS paint tool bad apears enabling me to edit the picture, of course this isn't just restricted to MS software Correl Draw does the same thing.
--- End quote ---
I think I see what you mean (literally).

--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez ---
So big deal?
Exchanging text between applicaions is easy (both UNIX and even DOS can do this in the form of pipes), what about objects? Can you copy something from the Gimp then paste it into OpenOffice, click on it and edit it?
--- End quote ---
I don't have OpenOffice so I don't know. Although, I can tell you can't copy from the GIMP into Krita (IMO Krita is shit anyhow. It's unstable and I prefer the GIMP's interface. I think they've alot of polishing to do, and alot of completing-things to do. Who says pasting from the GIMP is so hard?  It could be on the roadmap, approx. 2,000 years down the line (that is: when they fix the stability issues), for all we know. If you do (say pasting from the GIMP is so hard), then I hope you can explain why.).

I can't tell you about pasting from Krita to the GIMP, because after I tried to copy in Krita, low and behold, it crashed.

--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez ---DOS
--- End quote ---
Everyone in the DOS world uses the same clipboard and stuff, I would guess.

--- Quote ---Can you copy objects  from Inkscape
--- End quote ---
No, only text in Inkscape gets to the outside world, because it uses it's own internal clipboard.

--- Quote ---
past them into ABI Word, click on them and edit them again in Inkscape?
--- End quote ---
Could you do that easilly (i.e. almost-naturally) if both Inkscape and Abiword were made primarally for Windows (and made use of all it's API/stuff)?

--- Quote ---
Come to think of it this is probably why OpenOffice was designed the way it is. The word processor, spread sheet and drawing package are all one module because if they weren't then could couldn't insert drawings and spread sheets into Writer and then edit them. OpenOffice uses more memory than MS Office because of this, if UNIX supported DDE then OO would probably be faster and more efficient but it isn't.
--- End quote ---
Maybe. But KOffice is many different binaries (they share some core libraries) just like MS Office.

--- Quote ---
The main one that springs to mind is drag and drop, I found it very frustrating how I couldn't drop a file from KDE to OpenOffice of ABI Word and edit it.
--- End quote ---
Hopefully not too-frustrating. Otherwise, I could put you in contact with a good shrink.

--- Quote ---
Has the aforementioned changed?
--- End quote ---
I dunno. But back when I was on good ol' Mandrake things sure-were worse. Thankfully it wasn't all that hard to steer away from GNOME apps.

--- Quote ---
It's very important if you don't waste electricity leaving your system running 24/7.
--- End quote ---
I don't leave my computer on 24/7.

The electricity went off 'bout an hour ago and I timed the computer booting up. 16s to GDM login. Then probably about 10 seconds (max) for GNOME to be fully started up.

--- Quote ---
A lot of Window's problems are caused by its legacy of allowing the user and programs complete control of the system. UNIX's lack of desktop ability is also due to its legacy of being a text based operating system, it wasn't originally designed with the desktop in mind just as Windows wasn't originally designed with security in mind. Yes, a lot has changed recently Windows has become more secure and UNIX has become more desktop friendly but both OS's have a fair way to go on both issues.
--- End quote ---
Well if the problems you're describing with the GNU/Linux desktops were fixed, I wouldn't even notice. For my uses, the system is close to perfect, and for alot of other peoples uses too. How many people find Windows stability (I've had alot of issues with Windows' stability. I dunno if it's the hardware, it could be, but not all the time. Right clicking on a folder and explorer fcks up making Windows go shit-slow (again)... wtf?) close to perfect?

Microsoft did all the important-for selling things first. I think that could partly-explain why Windows sucks so bad. My Windows experience is haunted by stability and security issues, and being treated like a fucking retard too. If lack of DDE/OLE haunts you, get help.

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