All Things Microsoft > Microsoft Software
The Vandalisation of Windows
Orethrius:
I know I'm probably being irrational here, but package maintainers decided on a standard format long ago. It's called C. Any support beyond that is strictly on a per-case basis. Get over it. :p
hm_murdock:
Worker, this is when you start saying the things that put me off of Linux and its community.
--- Quote from: "worker201" ---Learn how to build shit from source.
--- End quote ---
Okay, know how you just said that you want lots of choices in installer package formats? Yeah. Well, you just told him that he should be using apt-get, which uses ONE format, and if he wants something else, he needs to re-think what he wants. Then, you told him he should just build from source. Foot. In. Mouth. You whined that him wanting something that improves the quality and value of Linux is "fascist", but then you turn around and tell him that his way of doing things is wrong. Good one.
Some people want to just use their goddamn computer and not fuck around with all this stupid shit. What I've never figured out is how OPENSTEP and Mac OS X can exist, be so popular, and NOBODY WILL EVEN TRY TO MAKE SOMETHING THAT USES THEIR METHODS. We tried it with GenSTEP... and I believe Komodo uses a similar system, so don't fret Aloone, someone's on your side.
--- Quote from: "worker201" ---So what are you doing wrong that has you so upset?
--- End quote ---
Another snobbish Linux phrase! What if he's NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG? He's trying to do it a way he wants... isn't that the Linux Way? Oh, no, I'm sorry... I forgot. It isn't. The Linux Way is this...
Choose which of eleven thousand disparate but somehow similar distros you want. Hope to high heaven that the software and drivers you want and need are available in an "installer package" format that this damn thing uses. Download 80 ISOs. Burn them. One of them was bad. Download it again. Burn it. Boot with the first one. SHIT. Somebody decided to use some new fancy-pants Linux boot CD format that isn't compatible with your machine. WTF? Give up on that one, try a different distro. It only comes on DVD and you don't have a DVD drive. Look for another. Finally give up and get Ubuntu or Fedora or something. Download 11.46 million ISOs and burn them. Install it. Your NIC doesn't work. At all. X11 will only run at 800x960 8 bit @ 50Hz. Fuck all. You repartition so you can have a Windows drive and install XP there so you can research how to make this junk work. You finally get X11 going right, but it won't do 95Hz for some reason. Asking on forums, nobody will ever help you to get it going... instead they all say "RTFM NOOB." There is no manual for X11. After 3 months you finally learned how to make your NIC work... buy a different one. Yours is about a year old... far too new!! Never mind the fact that it's one of the most common ones, but nobody bothered to write software for it. Oops!! At this point you realize that you tried to use Linux 3 months ago, but you've been running Windows ever since, trying to figure out how to make Linux run.
I wonder what goes into the head next...
Aloone, if you want some UNIX that isn't like pulling teeth to use, go find yourself a used Power Mac (Wegener Media sells blue G3s for $100) and install Mac OS X.
piratePenguin:
--- Quote from: hm_murdock ---
Some people want to just use their goddamn computer and not fuck around with all this stupid shit.
--- End quote ---
So use
--- Quote from: worker201 ---synaptic or smart or apt-get or something like that
--- End quote ---
?
And that doesn't mean stop the world from revolving until everyone drops their package managers and picks up Aloone_Jonez's choice of package manger, jevux. People who like Gentoo's emerge will still use Gentoo's emerge. And the people who "want to just use their goddamn computer and not fuck around with all this stupid shit" will use whatever the fuck they want to use, most likely something easy like apt-get, if that's what they want.
--- Quote ---What I've never figured out is how OPENSTEP and Mac OS X can exist, be so popular, and NOBODY WILL EVEN TRY TO MAKE SOMETHING THAT USES THEIR METHODS.
--- End quote ---
But THERE'S NO MORE ROOM FOR ANOTHER PACKAGING FORMAT OR WE'LL ALL DIE OF CONFUSION!
--- Quote ---
Another snobbish Linux phrase!
--- End quote ---
First time I've heard it anyhow.
--- Quote ---
Choose which of eleven thousand disparate but somehow similar distros you want.
--- End quote ---
The choice usually isn't rocket science, new users usually chose between the same few, as recommended by other users.
--- Quote ---Hope to high heaven that the software and drivers you want and need are available in an "installer package" format that this damn thing uses.
--- End quote ---
Few new GNU/Linux users have to worry about drivers. Linux supports (and usually supports well) boat-loads of hardware which will usually be detected and configured automatically.
--- Quote ---Download 80 ISOs. Burn them. One of them was bad. Download it again. Burn it. Boot with the first one. SHIT. Somebody decided to use some new fancy-pants Linux boot CD format that isn't compatible with your machine. WTF? Give up on that one, try a different distro. It only comes on DVD and you don't have a DVD drive. Look for another. Finally give up and get Ubuntu or Fedora or something.
--- End quote ---
"WTF?" You said it. I wonder what percentage of new users start on something that isn't "Ubuntu or Fedora or something".
--- Quote ---Your NIC doesn't work. At all. X11 will only run at 800x960 8 bit @ 50Hz. Fuck all. You repartition so you can have a Windows drive and install XP there so you can research how to make this junk work. You finally get X11 going right, but it won't do 95Hz for some reason. Asking on forums, nobody will ever help you to get it going... instead they all say "RTFM NOOB." There is no manual for X11.
--- End quote ---
man xorg.conf, NOOB! :p
--- Quote ---
After 3 months you finally learned how to make your NIC work... buy a different one. Yours is about a year old... far too new!!
Never mind the fact that it's one of the most common ones, but nobody bothered to write software for it.
--- End quote ---
Ha. Ha. What NIC are we talking about here?
--- Quote ---Aloone, if you want some UNIX that isn't like pulling teeth to use, go find yourself a used Power Mac (Wegener Media sells blue G3s for $100) and install Mac OS X.
--- End quote ---
Why EXACTLY do you think GNU/Linux is like "pulling teeth" to use?
H_TeXMeX_H:
I don't get it ... all the package managers I've used so far are quite easy to use ... I don't see a problem with there not being a single package distribution method. There are even different ways to distribute the same package ... for example most rpm packages from the livna Fedora repo actually have a source code tarball and a few install scripts inside them and are compiled when you install them, while rpms typically contain binaries ...
it's like saying lets all switch to using .zip for all our archives ... there's no real point ... each has their own strength and weaknesses ... even if you wanted to, you could not decide on which packaging system is best, or if you did you would be doing so arbitrarily not logically
Orethrius:
Logically speaking, we should *all* be using 7-zip, if only for the compression ratios. :cool:
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