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Author Topic: Java > .NET?  (Read 3236 times)

anphanax

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Java > .NET?
« on: 5 November 2005, 03:18 »
I'm a bit curious, from experienced developers (for both Java and .NET), how they feel about the statement "Java > .NET".

.NET's System.Windows.Form namespace is pretty good, and I like the System.Drawing and System.Drawing.Drawing2D as well. Java's "swing" still seems kinda... wierd to me. Perhaps i'm just ignorant though. I will give Java credit for documenting things nicely, but I am irritated about all the different release versions of JVMs there are (where as in .NET, you just have 1.0, 1.1, and 2.0).

I've noticed Java can do things .NET can't (without using unmanaged imports), like playing Sound (I know the 2.0 framework can do this), or say talking to MIDI, instructing it to play instruments (Don't think 2.0 can do this).

Is Java capable of compiling java-code within Java like C#, VB .NET, J#, and other .NET langs are?

Java is also a lot more portable it seems (Seems better off than the mono project is, considering they have the joy of trying to get System.Windows.Forms to work on *nix).

Is it a matter of personal preference, task at hand, or is one truely better than the other?

I ask because i'm currently learning both, and .NET\Java both seem to be picking up in popularity. Sorry for all the questions.

Note:
Yes, I thought about the whole "but .NET is Microsoft" thing. I also realize that there's a "but Java is Sun Microsystems" thing. Both have Open Source implementations underway.
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themacuser

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Re: Java > .NET?
« Reply #1 on: 6 November 2005, 11:39 »
Heh personally I prefer XCode as a dev environment, you can write an app in objective-c, java or applescript...

And it uses GCC to compile. Which is really cool and really fast, especially with distributed compiling!

I'm trying to learn Objective-C at the moment.
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cymon

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Re: Java > .NET?
« Reply #2 on: 6 November 2005, 16:59 »
Me too, switch the obj-C for C++. I would take Java over .NET anyday because of it's portability. You can write and compile Java code on nearly anything. I don't see .NET on people's cellphones. Can you even write .NET in anything other than Visual Studio?
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hm_murdock

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Re: Java > .NET?
« Reply #3 on: 6 November 2005, 17:20 »
Yes.
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skyman8081

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Re: Java > .NET?
« Reply #4 on: 6 November 2005, 21:48 »
Swing is absolute dog-shit.  trufax.
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Pathos

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Re: Java > .NET?
« Reply #5 on: 7 November 2005, 02:51 »
Java API is really easy to use and the language does encourage good habits, my experience with VB .net was one of the most horrific experiences ever. But some of my mates reckon C# is a nicer language than java (which has some really stupid bits, no overloaded operators, each release they add a little more C++ but don't go the whole way, idiots).

Personally I'd use java over .net for its portability and very nice API but byte coded software can go fuck itself for all I care, so bloody slow.
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cymon

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Re: Java > .NET?
« Reply #6 on: 7 November 2005, 03:03 »
Tru dat. The entire purpose of byte coded software could be irrelevant if all of the operating systems were POSIX compliant , which would help the development of cross platform programs, and if an open source development model was the norm, than binary incompatability wouldn't be an issue.
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anphanax

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Re: Java > .NET?
« Reply #7 on: 11 November 2005, 20:09 »
Quote
I don't see .NET on people's cellphones.


It's supported through them, via the Compact Frameworks for CE 5.0 or Windows XP Mobile/Embedded, I believe. If your comment was about the popularity of such devices, I haven't seen any either.
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cymon

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Re: Java > .NET?
« Reply #8 on: 11 November 2005, 20:31 »
Last time I checked, most cells don't run Microsoft Windows. But any recent cellphone can run simple Java apps.
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Master of Reality

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Re: Java > .NET?
« Reply #9 on: 4 December 2005, 16:46 »
Quote from: cymon
Can you even write .NET in anything other than Visual Studio?

http://www.monodevelop.com ;)
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skyman8081

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Re: Java > .NET?
« Reply #10 on: 4 December 2005, 23:16 »
But is half of the .NET API pure dog-shit kept in to woo over C++ programmers who don't know what good design is?
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sledz41

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Re: Java > .NET?
« Reply #11 on: 5 December 2005, 03:47 »
I did a bit of Java this year and found it so refreshing and reminding of C.
That is compared to the crap language of delphi. My Uni is going to start on C# next year, should be interesting to see how that goes.
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mobrien_12

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Re: Java > .NET?
« Reply #12 on: 5 December 2005, 10:30 »
Quote from: cymon
Can you even write .NET in anything other than Visual Studio?


Well, MS includes the C# compiler with the free download .net SDK.  You can write the C# stuff in anything you want.  You can't do the integrated web applications  stuff like that, however.
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noob

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Re: Java > .NET?
« Reply #13 on: 6 December 2005, 19:54 »
Java is totally free, and using Netbeans, which is written in java, you can write and compile Java apps.
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anphanax

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Re: Java > .NET?
« Reply #14 on: 13 January 2006, 01:32 »
On some level of thinking, I was also considering the IDEs for each.

The first IDE with a dialog editor I encountered was Eclipse, which was a pain at first (yeah, i'm new to Java still). I installed it the first time, expecting to create a JFrame and drag controls on to it. I wasn't able to do this, and checked through the menus looking for some sort of "dialog editor". I went back to the site, and after some research determined that I needed the "visual editor" plug-in. So, I downloaded and installed it (not trivial for unexperienced people, but easy if you are). Still didn't work. The "visual classes" were missing, and I consulted site help, which was outdated. Well, after getting a bit angry, I finally discovered that I was missing dependencies, which I downloaded, and I finally got it working the way I wanted. Much different experience from that of Visual Studio. Eclipse is a bit slow too, but Version 3.2 Milestone 4 seems faster (but it's "beta", and it has some annoying bugs). It's a really good thing I already knew about layout managers, or would have really been in for pain (drag button onto content pane of JFrame, and it takes up the entire frame and can't be resized, which is odd default behavior in my opinion).

I've never used NetBeans but i've heard very good things about it. I'll probably give it try, when I can get a better download speed from their site.

Btw, has anyone else checked out the new features for Mustang (jdk/jre6 aka 1.6.0)? "System tray" support, splash screens that load before the VM?, Reflection improvements, new API for working with the java compiler. A java.io.Console() static class, and some other goodies. I'm particularly looking forward to the Java Compiler API.

I hope Microsoft continues on their path with .NET (hey Microsoft, thanks for adding WAV support to the 2.0 framework, and not bothering with anything else). Their seeming abadonment/deprecation (in some ways, like a lack of documentation for directui.dll) of the native win32 DLL, or just disorganization in general, is giving people a reason to research alternatives. I'm not impressed by their 2005 IDE either (HTML editing still sucks, terrible CSS code output), and I find myself correcting IDEs that auto-generate code I don't like (and yeah, I "correct" Eclipse too).

Edit: Tried NetBeans. I still prefer Eclipse .
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