Stop Microsoft

All Things Microsoft => Microsoft as a Company => Topic started by: _kill__bill on 2 February 2006, 20:30

Title: Lions and Tigers and IE 7! Oh my!
Post by: _kill__bill on 2 February 2006, 20:30: It's nearing upgrade time at any captive organization. Microsoft released a beta of IE 7.0

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,9075-2019982,00.html (http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,9075-2019982,00.html)

From what I can tell, the only major diffs are:
1: Finally supporting transparent PNGs
2: Tabbed Browsing
3: A list of known phishing sites

Why it is all bullshit:
1: PNG has been a W3C Recommendation since 1st October, 1996. About time IE does it right
2: No innovation.
3: This should belong in a filter, not the browser. More bundling, except they aren't even going to bother giving it a new name.

And why I think I'll actually get it:
1: A lot of pages are broken beyond belief, and I like tabs even when Firefox is confused

And why I'll still use Firefox when I can:
1: Built-in pop-up blocker
2: No ActiveX
3: Faster
4: Free both ways
5: Looks better
6: More customizable
7: XUL ROCKS!
8: Almost no security issues
9: Runs on everything :tux: :bsd: :macos:
10: It's not made by Microsoft
Title: Re: Lions and Tigers and IE 7! Oh my!
Post by: piratePenguin on 2 February 2006, 20:48: They should just ship with Firefox or even Opera (would need permission from the Opera owners, and I've heard that they'd be willing to give them the right), but that would be a good i.e. bad thing for Windows as an OS (because Windows as an OS is supposed to be shit).
Title: Re: Lions and Tigers and IE 7! Oh my!
Post by: Refalm on 2 February 2006, 20:55: I've noticed IE7 still hasn't fixed
or any other CSS 3 or XHTML 1.1 specification for that matter.

Also, a pop-up for phishing on every new website made me scream "FUCK OFF!" very loudly. Once I finished testing a website I made in IE 7 (corperate websites do need IE support) I quickly started Opera.
Title: Re: Lions and Tigers and IE 7! Oh my!
Post by: worker201 on 2 February 2006, 21:17: Have they fixed the XML declaration for pages marked as "transitional" bug yet? That one gets filed under V for Vexing.
Title: Re: Lions and Tigers and IE 7! Oh my!
Post by: _kill__bill on 2 February 2006, 21:31: Quote
Have they fixed the XML declaration for pages marked as "transitional" bug yet? That one gets filed under V for Vexing.

Quote
I've noticed IE7 still hasn't fixed
or any other CSS 3 or XHTML 1.1 specification for that matter.

No clue. I'm only getting it when they get some of the beta-level bugs out (they will never get them all out), and only then because Firefox doesn't work well with messed-up HTML.

Maybe the W3C should be given authority over web pages enough only to make sure all pages work under an ultra-loose definition. If only...
Title: Re: Lions and Tigers and IE 7! Oh my!
Post by: worker201 on 2 February 2006, 21:41: In order to really understand what bugs are truly fixed and what bugs are not fixed, you have to have CSS parsers, XML parsers, and code watches, which IE will probably never have.

Their decision to only randomly support certain bits of CSS1, CSS2, and CSS3 is just plain shitty. If you look at what they choose not to support and the extras they use, it seems clear that they are either stupid and bitchy, or that they have something truly nasty hidden in their sleeves, like forcing the internet to use Microsoft GUI standards.
Title: Re: Lions and Tigers and IE 7! Oh my!
Post by: Refalm on 3 February 2006, 10:45: (http://illhostit.com/thumbnails/3085574413178476/ie7_mes.png) illhostit.com - ie7_mes.png (http://illhostit.com/files/3085574413178476/ie7_mes.png)
The bug of the seperate bar that is the fault of Internet Explorer still hasn't been fixed. So HTML 4 support is still crap.

(http://illhostit.com/thumbnails/8795960697721902/ie7_qute.png) illhostit.com - ie7_qute.png (http://illhostit.com/files/8795960697721902/ie7_qute.png)
Quadrone.org uses XHTML and CSS 3 and doesn't give a shit about Internet Explorer. This website works in all the modern browsers, except for Internet Explorer.

While I've found out that they now do support
in an half-assed way, they still have a lot of work to do on the engine. I doubt that they will.

Also, the interface looks like it's made by some pre-teen who's uploading stuff to Theme-XP.org, and wonders why he's getting bad reviews all the time.
Title: Re: Lions and Tigers and IE 7! Oh my!
Post by: Aloone_Jonez on 3 February 2006, 16:31: Quote from: _kill__bill
2: No innovation.

That one I can agree with.

Quote from: _kill__bill
1: Built-in pop-up blocker

IE has had that since SP2 for XP.

Quote from: _kill__bill
2: No ActiveX

I've heard that they're planning to block ActiveX by default apart from Windows update.

Quote from: _kill__bill
3: Faster

True, FireFox does render faster than IE but IE loads quicker as it's already partly loaded with Windows.
Title: Re: Lions and Tigers and IE 7! Oh my!
Post by: mobrien_12 on 4 February 2006, 04:19: IE doesn't have adblock. I'll never go back, not with the way flash ads are going these days. Adblock is freaking wonderful. I can live with ads on my terms. Ads that are reasonable, stay. Ads that are obnoxious, GO.

Do you have a link about the ActiveX going away? I find that suprising. The whole IE plugin structure is based on ActiveX since they decided to drop the Netscape Plugin format (we all know why). All sorts of IE only sites use ActiveX (stupid web coders). MS freaking loves ActiveX and has been shoving it down the throats of the world for TEN YEARS. Now they are going to disable it?
Title: Re: Lions and Tigers and IE 7! Oh my!
Post by: Aloone_Jonez on 4 February 2006, 05:34: Yes, it's true MS finally admit that ActiveX is insecure ans is a pile of shit.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/IE/ie7/featuretable.mspx
Quote
ActiveX
Title: Re: Lions and Tigers and IE 7! Oh my!
Post by: cymon on 4 February 2006, 05:42: Holy shit! It's the Microsoft Firefox! And the worst thing is, is that people will say 'OMG TABZZZORZ W00T!!11', and credit MS as the company of the century, even though all halfway decent browsers have supported those for ages.
Title: Re: Lions and Tigers and IE 7! Oh my!
Post by: H_TeXMeX_H on 4 February 2006, 06:15: actually it looks more like opera than firefox ... it's still shit tho
Title: Re: Lions and Tigers and IE 7! Oh my!
Post by: Orethrius on 4 February 2006, 10:16: Did anybody else find the lack of "View Source" a tad disturbing?
I mean, suddenly the world's largest OS vendor takes away Joe Averageuser's ability to manually check standards compatibility?

EDIT: Not that there aren't a million ways around it, mind you, but just the fact that it was deemed high-enough priority to even make it to beta?
Title: Re: Lions and Tigers and IE 7! Oh my!
Post by: RaZoR1394 on 4 February 2006, 13:04: Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
True, FireFox does render faster than IE but IE loads quicker as it's already partly loaded with Windows.

You can install a plugin which makes Windows load parts of Firefox in the memory during startup.
Title: Re: Lions and Tigers and IE 7! Oh my!
Post by: mobrien_12 on 4 February 2006, 19:10: Quote from: Orethrius
Did anybody else find the lack of "View Source" a tad disturbing?
I mean, suddenly the world's largest OS vendor takes away Joe Averageuser's ability to manually check standards compatibility?

EDIT: Not that there aren't a million ways around it, mind you, but just the fact that it was deemed high-enough priority to even make it to beta?

They took "View Source" out?????????

Typical Microsoft. Trying their best to turn the Web into a closed platform.
Title: Re: Lions and Tigers and IE 7! Oh my!
Post by: Aloone_Jonez on 4 February 2006, 19:40: They're just dumbing it down their already dumb web browser.
Title: Re: Lions and Tigers and IE 7! Oh my!
Post by: Refalm on 4 February 2006, 20:45: Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
They're just dumbing it down their already dumb web browser.

It's not exactly dumbed down. Have you ever take a look at the Internet Explorer control panel?
A lot of useless options that have no real meaning to browsing. Who in his right mind would disable HTTP 1.1? Only some nerd expert with nothing to do would. And those people would rather use Regedit or WinHex for that kind of stuff anyway.
Title: Re: Lions and Tigers and IE 7! Oh my!
Post by: worker201 on 5 February 2006, 02:01: Quote from: mobrien_12
Typical Microsoft. Trying their best to turn the Web into a closed platform.
Actually, I think you've hit the nail right on the head. Pretty sure that's exactly what they're doing. The internet is the future, so they want to own it. And if they own it, nobody else can.
Title: Re: Lions and Tigers and IE 7! Oh my!
Post by: H_TeXMeX_H on 5 February 2006, 02:42: Well if that's so then Google is a big obstacle in M$'s path ... lets hope Ballmer doesn't Fucking Kill (http://uncyclopedia.org/images/0/0f/Fucking_Killer_Axe.jpg)
Title: Re: Lions and Tigers and IE 7! Oh my!
Post by: adiment on 5 February 2006, 20:08: IE7 is pretty bad. I don't know if it's my version or it's just buggy - I tried it last night and it seemed lagged like when I'd click links it would take IE about 5 secs to start loading them.

All IE7 has is a nice theme...
Title: Re: Lions and Tigers and IE 7! Oh my!
Post by: Aloone_Jonez on 5 February 2006, 22:28: Hmm I don't know, I'm not going to pass judgement on IE 7 until it's out of beta phase. I remember lots of people were complaining about FireFox when it first came out so I'll wait and see.
Title: Re: Lions and Tigers and IE 7! Oh my!
Post by: Orethrius on 6 February 2006, 00:05: I'm not so sure, Aloone. I don't recall Firefox ever excluding a standard View Source option, but YMMV.
Title: Re: Lions and Tigers and IE 7! Oh my!
Post by: H_TeXMeX_H on 6 February 2006, 01:49: You mean you can't "view page source" with IE 7 ? Uhhh ... why would they do that ? I actually use it quite a bit to find out where embedded items are located ... it's quite useful ... I wonder if it's just that way for the beta ?
Title: Re: Lions and Tigers and IE 7! Oh my!
Post by: Orethrius on 6 February 2006, 02:51: Quote from: H_TeXMeX_H
You mean you can't "view page source" with IE 7 ? Uhhh ... why would they do that ? I actually use it quite a bit to find out where embedded items are located ... it's quite useful ... I wonder if it's just that way for the beta ?
Possibly, but it still stinks to me. I've not seen ANY other browser do anything on that order of magnitude, even in betas. ESPECIALLY in betas.
Title: Re: Lions and Tigers and IE 7! Oh my!
Post by: toadlife on 6 February 2006, 10:47: Tried it. I think it's ugly.
Title: Re: Lions and Tigers and IE 7! Oh my!
Post by: Refalm on 6 February 2006, 13:12: Quote from: toadlife
Tried it. I think it's ugly.

Windows Vista will have those IE7 graphics all over :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Lions and Tigers and IE 7! Oh my!
Post by: WMD on 6 February 2006, 21:24: Well, not all of Vista will look quite like that. IE7 seems to be at the bottom of the barrel, but Vista won't look quite that bad. (It'll still look bad, though :p)

And...did anyone notice that the magnifying glass icon in the upper right corner looks exactly like the Spotlight icon, just mirrored horizontally?
Title: Re: Lions and Tigers and IE 7! Oh my!
Post by: hm_murdock on 7 February 2006, 00:53: Actually, IE7 on XP is ugly... and IE7 on Vista is the same code running with Vista's new ultra-mega-super rendering 3d vectorized death engine. I mean Quartz. I mean Avalon. No, I mean Quartz.
Title: Re: Lions and Tigers and IE 7! Oh my!
Post by: H_TeXMeX_H on 7 February 2006, 03:30: I hope Vista crashes and burns ... into Ballmer's ass !!! :D And then Ballmer goes on a rampage and slaughters Bill Gates along with all the makers of Vista and then Ballmer experiences a reactor meltdown in his head and erases M$ HQ off the face of the earth for all time :thumbup: ... oh and the blast causes a freak EMP wave that erases all copies of all M$ software incuding Winblow$ off all the harddrives on the planet and satellites and space probes, and melts all the M$ cds and dvds everywhere !