Stop Microsoft
All Things Microsoft => Microsoft Software => Topic started by: bmxdirtbag on 16 January 2003, 16:00
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god forbid, i run possibly the worst O/S in the world, win me
wat otha O/S out there cud i b running, i have considered linux, but i have heard that requires programming knowledge to run effectively, which i have none of. I was also thinking of mayb runnin 2 operating systems, possibly 2000 and linux or something, as im a bit of a gamer, and would dearly miss GTA 3, Max Payne, UT and other games not able to be played on a linux platform
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you heard wrong, probably from somebody that has not used linux for at least seven years.
dual boot with a windows (does not matter which, they are all shit) and linux. pick red hat, suse, lycoris, mandrake or some other well supported linux, and if i was you i'd buy a cheap copy straight from the vendor (cheap means like $80 for SuSE, $35 from mandrake $30 from lycoris and so on - i made those figures up so don't expect them to be exactly right) - this means you get a lot of printed manuals (easier to read and more portable than docs on a CD) and three months telephone/online support (typically).
put linux and windows on the same machine and dual boot. use linux for your wordprocessing/internet/chat and so on and boot into windows for all that 3d win-only crap you want. remember to get used to linux though! once you get over the frustration watershed (yes, linux is a lot more complex and customisable than windows - ie: it's not a toy - so this means a slightly steeper learning curve that will take a short while to get over) i promise you it will have been well worth it!
and welcome to the board. post questions often if you have any problems! (http://smile.gif)
[ January 16, 2003: Message edited by: Calum ]
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Welcome to the boards, I would second what Calum has said.
Also be aware that UT2003 is available for Linux (in fact it is probably on your CD right now, if you have UT2003, and you did not even know it). Of course you could always game on a console.
If you want to buy new from scratch there is also Mac, which is very good and runs most of the games you would want, but I am an Open Source advocate, I believe that provision of source code is my right as a consumer, on every product I use. The same way ingredients lists are available on food.
If you are running a M$ windows PC then your options are Linux (one of around 250 versions), OS/2 (costs a lot and not as good as Linux - opinion), BSD (three main versions, a varient of UNIX, condidered more for use on servers and requires a little more technical skill) and a few other types of UNIX and some small development OSs. As a noob I would suggest a main distribution of Linux such as Mandrake. You can download it for free and try it out, if you like what you see you could buy a full version with some manuals and support for less than a M$ OS. If you know someone who can help you out then so much the better. You do not need to be programming guru, in fact many users of Linux are not, they use their computers same way you probably do, e-mail, internet, games.
The reason you may see many people who are Linux and programmers is because the Linux environment actually gets you interested in computers, and people often keep on learning because it is more inspirational than any other OS I have ever used.
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ok, thanks for that.
what would be the best office/email/internet/msn :confused: clients to use? Im currently running mozilla for my surfing. Can you download flash/shockwave etc for this? :confused:
also, how large is a fully installed linux o/s?
are those prices you quoted in $US?
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I would personally stay away from dial-up with linux becuase most internal modems are winmodems and wont work. AND I REPEAT do not use MSN. Mozzila does have a flash plugin that works but i am not sure about shockwave. And installation of linuxdepends really on what you install. I usally install about 2.5 gigs worth of crap. But thats just me and i like having apps to do almost anything.You can make it less the 2 gigs though if need be.
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:( then how would i get internet going?
I have a gateway 1.3ghz p4, 384mb ram, geforce 2 mx400, 20gig 5400 ata 100 hd, soundblaster live value, NEC dvd, a-open cd-writer. I'm running a Epson Stylus Colour 580, a very old HP Laserjet IIP, and a Canon Canoscan N670U/N676U, the epson and canon r usb, and the laserjet is parallel.
would i have many compatability problems with my current system? and if there are any, what would i have to change?
thanks
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The only thing that may be of trouble for your system would be your printers but HP support their printers in linux.
Try and get a popular distro that is good for newcomers. Try SuSE 8.1 as it has very good support for a wide range of hardware, some say it has the best while others will say RedHat has the best. Try either one of these 2 first. My preference is towards SuSE, i've tried them both but i find SuSE to be better for a newcomer.
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quote:
I would personally stay away from dial-up with linux becuase most internal modems are winmodems and wont work
Wild_Jester is partially correct on the modem issue. Win modems and Linux computers are a pain, but I have two Linux boxes that both connect to the 'net with modems. One uses an external Zoom modem and the other is an internal US Robotics. No problem connection with either. Just make sure that you're using a "hardware" modem and not a "win modem." Although even if you do have a win modem, I think that there are places to download Linux drivers for many of them. I've never tried, but I'm certain that others here have.
Jim
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i find that getting shitty modems to work in linux is a no go, simply because the modem is half finished and the missing bits need to be emulated in software. don't go there.
On the other hand it's not hard to get a decent modem. I just bought an external 56k serial modem for my desktop for 20 pounds and i have a PCMCIA modem for my laptop and they both work fine (any serial port modem will work in linux by the way with no drivers required).
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Calum is right. Since you're on dialup, I would also suggest a serial modem (preferably a USR one), since they certainly do work in Linux. Winmodems on the other hand are a whole different story, since they require special drivers which emulate the missing hardware parts they lack. Unfortunately, most of these modems (mainly PCI and some USB ones) work only in Windows, but there are some drivers for Linux as well (that's why those modems are also called linmodems). If you have a modem and are not sure whether it is a hardware or software one, go to this page (http://www.linmodems.org) and check it out.
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quote:
Originally posted by bmx dirt bag:
ok, thanks for that.
what would be the best office/email/internet/msn :confused: clients to use? Im currently running mozilla for my surfing. Can you download flash/shockwave etc for this? :confused:
also, how large is a fully installed linux o/s?
are those prices you quoted in $US?
Office - OpenOffice (http://www.openoffice.org)
This is a very good office suite, however M$ cannot read the document format, so you can save your documents as .doc, .rtf, or .txt and M$ office users will not even notice the difference, until M$ change their file format.
e-mail - You already have a good client in Mozilla, but Ximian evolution is also good.
Internet - probably no problems whatsoever, however problems can exist depending on your exact modem.
Flash - there is a Linux version of flash, Shockwave is more difficult but it exists in some form - the main reason for this probably being Shockwave are heavily invested in by M$. There are cracks out there to make it work, but flash looks crap anyway so don't use it.
Your scanner may or may not work, it's USB so the odds are in your favour. There are topics in the forum on this subject.
To prove whether your system would work I would suggest you dual boot and find out. Again visit the MES FAQ and read the numerous topics on this forum on that very subject.
A fully installed Linux will probably need around 3GB, however note - this includes servers like Apache, lots of software you may never use, in fact you will only want to do a workstation install, which will be around 1.5GB plus some for files. And this can be lowered further still if you don't want to install some of the GUIs, and further still if you really really want to. You would need to learn what you want and what you need.
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My ME (c:\windows) folder is currently 1.37gb, and i got ME with my computer (OEM) is there anyway without spending to much money to re-install ME 'cleanly' (lol, clean?) i am trying to find room to put linux on my computer......i currently have 2gb free, with about a gig of music to burn off.
The cds that came with my GATEWAY only say System Restoration Kit (Desktops) on them, which i am think would just re-install me again, but with all the extra crap thats made the file 1.37gig. When I first got the computer about 1 1/2 years ago, the me folder was already something like 1.3gigs, i thought ME only took up about 700-800megs or less?
PLZ HELP ME!!! I NEED ROOM TO PUT LINUX ON MY DYING BOX, Linux is the only thing that can save it from turning into a compltely useless box of metal...no comments bout it already being one plz, im already depressed......
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yes, okay, first burn backups of all your data then do a complete wipe of your entire hard drive. to do this (so long as you only have one partition) you can make a 'windows ME emergency boot disk' from Control Panel>Add/RemovePrograms and boot from that, then type 'format c:' at the prompt. it's a GOOD feeling.
now you can use your system disks for windows (i presume these are real OEM full install disks, yes?) to install windows again if you really have to. Windows gives you control over some of the crap little bits you don't want. you can choose not to install lookout excess and msn messmaker for instance, thet'll reduce it by a few megs. also take a look at http://www.litepc.com/ (http://www.litepc.com/) which has a few tools for aiding you in the installation of windows. these include adding extra options like not installing internet exploder, or they provide an uninstaller for internet exploder for if you've installed windows already et c.
DO read their docs before you try their software though, as it is not "official" microsoft software and so microsoft are of course hell bent on making their stuff as incompatible with it as possible.
Now once you have finally done that and rebooted umptytum times to reinstall your drivers and so on, install linux. first: use ctrl-alt-del to close everything except explorer and then run 'defrag'. then switch off your computer, stick your linux CD in the CD drive and prepare for the real installation.
If installing mandrake, you'll get a nice GUI to select all your partitions and so on during installation. red hat doesn't have quite as good a setup, but it's adequate. not sure what other distros have in the way of partitioning tools but some of the more crap ones (lindows fr instance) don't have anything that might help you partition your system correctly during install. might be worth asking around first.
that's it! enjoy. post often and ask questions.
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Kind of off and on topic.
Just wanted to suggest going to your local bookstore abd purchasing the O'Rilley, Dummies, or RedHat8 Bible. Each of these are great Linux refrences and contain Linux install CD's.
They will also get you started right quick. For the cost of the book, you get linux and everythng you need to know about it.
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Psyjax is right. A good book about Linux can save you a lot of time and (possibly) trouble later on. (http://smile.gif) I would also suggest a book from O' Reilly publications, although there are many good books out there.
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if i bought redhat, what programs would that come with...office suites, imaging etc
and what about mandrake?
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quote:
Originally posted by bmx dirt bag:
if i bought redhat, what programs would that come with...office suites, imaging etc
and what about mandrake?
I have redhat 7.3 (haven't tried 8 yet), it comes with:
office - koffice, abiword, various text editors
internet - konqueror, mozilla, netscape
email - evolution, mozilla, pine (my favorite)
imaging - the gimp, various other paint-like programs
games - a lot of small ones
it comes iwth a lot, i got a 4.3gb installation. i'm sure no matter what you need it'll be in there.
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I am thinking of doing the exact same thing, I was just thinking how much windows ME sucks (it keeps fucking up my registry somehow) so I came here. All I want is something that is cosmetically like windows, but better. I am not very good at computers you see. Also run quite a lot of games. And my family all use windows and insist its the best so ill need to have that as well. So how would i install a 2nd OS which i can choose to use if i wish?
At the moment I only have 17GB of spare space on my computer as well. I also have no money at all. Any advice?
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quote:
Originally posted by Laura Lover:
I am thinking of doing the exact same thing, I was just thinking how much windows ME sucks (it keeps fucking up my registry somehow) so I came here. All I want is something that is cosmetically like windows, but better. I am not very good at computers you see. Also run quite a lot of games. And my family all use windows and insist its the best so ill need to have that as well. So how would i install a 2nd OS which i can choose to use if i wish?
At the moment I only have 17GB of spare space on my computer as well. I also have no money at all. Any advice?
I Hate niggers, they smell bad and are ruining america.
[edit: i removed zombies picture of a black man on fire]
[ January 21, 2003: Message edited by: X11 ]
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yea well im poor. i cant afford XP.
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so windows ME and windows XP are the only two options you would consider, eh? well good luck over at www.windowsbbs.com (http://www.windowsbbs.com) then...
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17gb! you ever considered linux?
ive only got 3gb free, but im cleaning up some old stuff to install Linux, so ill have a dual boot ME/Linux, everything will be done on linux, apart from games like gta3, etc which dont run on linux :(
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quote:
Originally posted by bmx dirt bag:
everything will be done on linux, apart from games like gta3, etc which dont run on linux :(
Pardon? (http://frankscorner.org/wine/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=40&page=1)
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quote:
Originally posted by Zombie9920:
it is compatible with almost every piece of software in the world(real software...not open source knock-off's of real software)
What makes software "real"? Whether or not it's made by a company? And how much open source software have you actually used?
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, hardware manufacturers always make sure thier hardware is compatible with Windows(they make sure there are Windows drivers for thier hardware)
This is true, for now.
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and best of all.....you don't have to be a fucking nerd to effectively use 2000 or XP.[/b]
You don't have to be a nerd to effectively use Linux, either. The latest versions of Red Hat, Mandrake, and SuSe are very easy to install and use.
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I am thinking of doing the exact same thing, I was just thinking how much windows ME sucks (it keeps fucking up my registry somehow) so I came here. All I want is something that is cosmetically like windows, but better. I am not very good at computers you see. Also run quite a lot of games. And my family all use windows and insist its the best so ill need to have that as well. So how would i install a 2nd OS which i can choose to use if i wish?
At the moment I only have 17GB of spare space on my computer as well. I also have no money at all. Any advice?
My recommendation: Mandrake Linux 9.0. You can download a copy at http://www.linuxiso.org (http://www.linuxiso.org) or there are other sites you could get a copy burned to a CD-ROM. Don't know where those sites are off-hand, though.
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Originally posted by emh:
You don't have to be a nerd to effectively use Linux, either. The latest versions of Red Hat, Mandrake, and SuSe are very easy to install and use.
Using it requires no taped glasses, but using it effectively would.
My recomendation, upgrade to XP (http://www.getnewos.cjb.net). MWAHAHAHHAHAHAHaha.
[ February 05, 2003: Message edited by: X11: I pop a cap in yo ass ]
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i was converted to redhat. "best move ever! :)"
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quote:
Originally posted by raptor:
i was converted to redhat. "best move ever! :)"
remind me, who helped you with that?
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i forgot.
ya "Stryker" who was it?
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stryker has been my main source of linux knowledge so far, linux is an awsome learning experience.
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I hate windows so I tried linux and still am toying with it, but I switche to Mac, never looked back. Linux is pretty easy if u use the preinstalled. On RH8 you almost can't do that because none of it can play MP3's (for legal reasons). I havn't been able to get xine to install, and every time I have in the past I was never able to play DVD's. Until linux has the install capabilities of Windows or even better, the Mac. It will always be too hard for the "basic" user.
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Originally posted by Billy Gates: Mac Commando:
I hate windows so I tried linux and still am toying with it, but I switche to Mac, never looked back. Linux is pretty easy if u use the preinstalled. On RH8 you almost can't do that because none of it can play MP3's (for legal reasons). I havn't been able to get xine to install, and every time I have in the past I was never able to play DVD's. Until linux has the install capabilities of Windows or even better, the Mac. It will always be too hard for the "basic" user.
Installing Mandrake 9.0 was easier for me than Windows 98. And it does come with MP3 playback by default. (For the record, it seems the patent issues with MP3's turned out to be misunderstandings, and I'm under the impression that Red Hat will include MP3 playback by default in the next release)
Having many packages/programs to choose from can be quite daunting for a new user. I usually recommend just going with whatever the program picks by default. You can always uninstall later.
As far as installing other programs, RPM has come a long way, and with things like apt-get and urpmi, it's not as hard as people make it out to be.
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well it's really easy to add mp3 capability to red hat, i found, but i still have not got any linux system to successfully play a dvd, despite trying.
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quote:
Originally posted by Calum: Member # 81:
but i still have not got any linux system to successfully play a dvd, despite trying.
I've never tried to play DVDs with MPlayer but it works for any audio/video formats I have. It has DVD support so guess you should try.
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oh i have been trying, i will make it work one day...
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quote:
Originally posted by Calum: Member # 81:
oh i have been trying, i will make it work one day...
Good luck
BTW rc1 and rc2 seemed to me buggy... Check rc3.
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Red Hat 8.0, its really good..remember to enable DNS for the mail server
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Personally, I've never had much of a desire to watch DVD's on my computer. To me, that's what a TV and DVD player is for.
However, getting a DVD drive is an affordable alternative for, say, college students that don't have a whole lot of space in their dorm room and not a lot of money to spend. That way, they can still rent DVD's to watch once in a while.
So, getting a DVD drive does have its merits. I just personally have no need for one.
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quote:
Originally posted by Calum: Member # 81:
oh i have been trying, i will make it work one day...
did you never manage to get it working in mplayer?
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quote:
Originally posted by Calum: Member # 81:
oh i have been trying, i will make it work one day...
Slightly ironic. Mplayer did DVD fine after my first install of it.
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Winblows = Advertising & Infotainment Delivery System (AIDS)
Linux = Kernel, Yes linux is the kernel.
FreeBSD = Oerating System (OS)
AIDS = Where do you want to be herded today?
Linux = Where do you want to go tomorrow?
FreeBSD = Are you all coming or what?
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quote:
Originally posted by flap:
did you never manage to get it working in mplayer?
no, although windows media video and quicktime now play fine (except i cannot seem to install any skins or gui or anything, this may be because i installed mplayer from source and all the skins i have are rpms et c, and no the --force --nodeps doesn't help) but dvd doesn't work at all. I only have a celery 700 though (well i have another p3 850Mhz i might try it on next) so maybe that is the problem on it's own.
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have you definitely installed the gui?
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as i say, i install the gui and skins with 'rpm -Uvh --force --nodeps' because the rpm database does not show that mplayer is installed, as i installed it from a tar.gz but no dice, gmplayer still doesn't work and i still get a message about no skin found when i open something with mplayer. but it works and that's the main thing.
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oh yes you said, sorry.
did you specify the --enable-gui option when running configure, as per the instructions?
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yup! that's why i am confused.
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is gmplayer there though? is it just not running because it can't find the skin? Have you tried manually installing the skin from a tarball rather than an rpm?
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not yet. that was going to be my next stepp, but i've been leaving the 'real' computer alone while i install and break stuff on the 'non serious' computer for the time being. i just rcvd freebsd, debian and lycoris in the post so i probably won't be fiddling with the real computer for a while especially since both of us need it now for our university stuff.
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Surprisingly MPlayer tarball doesn't contain skins. --enable-gui just enables GUI feature but skins should be downloaded and installed after that. In the one hand it's logical - there's no --install-skins flag in configure...
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yup, i know, but then i try to install the skins using rpm and they install apparently but mplayer does not see them.
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when i installed mplayer i had to make symlinks to where the skins had installed. i can't remember why I didn't just move them to wherever mplayer was looking for them, but that might be your solution.
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Just download any skin you'd like (in addition to Default) from http://www.mplayerhq.hu/homepage/dload.html (http://www.mplayerhq.hu/homepage/dload.html) and unpack them into your_home/.mplayer/skins if I remember it correctly. Make sure you have rights to read from there. That's all.