Stop Microsoft
All Things Microsoft => Microsoft Software => Topic started by: lazygamer on 2 October 2002, 06:31
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Ok, I've heard alot of anti-XP sentiment here. Now I personally can't see the problem with it, but im kinda a dumb-dumb who can't always see what the wind0ze fuss is about. (http://smile.gif)
So should I go through the effort to get a pirated W2000 and wash off my Xpee? Or is XPee really not so bad?
Like if W2000 had better 0ldsk00l compatiblity then XP, and was actually faster and stabler, and less spyware to boot, I would have to give it a serious consideration.
Hint:I will not ever get rid of wind0ze(for a few years anyways), so don't bother saying what I think im gonna hear. ;)
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Windows XP is way ahead of Windows 2000 in application compatibility, speed(on newer hardware), hardware support, stability and XP has a much better GUI(you can skin the hell out of XP's GUI as opposed to Win2K having limited GUI skinning support).
If you are really afraid of *gasp* Windows Messenger(which can be easily disabled or uninstalled) and Windows Media Player 8(a great player...but WMP 9 for XP is better...PS, WMP 9 on Win2K and Win9x sucks as bad as WMP 7.1 did) then you may want to install Win2K.
If it were my box I would leave XP on it. If you install Win2K you will see how primitave older versions of Windows really are compared to XP. ;P
(EDIT)I'm not bashing Win2K at all because it is a great performing/stable OS too(much better than Win9x)..Im just saying it is outdated and primitave compared to XP.
[ October 01, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]
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quote:
Originally posted by lazygamer:
Ok, I've heard alot of anti-XP sentiment here. Now I personally can't see the problem with it, but im kinda a dumb-dumb who can't always see what the wind0ze fuss is about. (http://smile.gif)
So should I go through the effort to get a pirated W2000 and wash off my Xpee? Or is XPee really not so bad?
Like if W2000 had better 0ldsk00l compatiblity then XP, and was actually faster and stabler, and less spyware to boot, I would have to give it a serious consideration.
Hint:I will not ever get rid of wind0ze(for a few years anyways), so don't bother saying what I think im gonna hear. ;)
Just one thing -- I'm in no way "supporting" XP, but removing XP just because _other_people_ bash it is not a good reason. You should use XP if you don't see anything wrong with it. It's kind of like listening to Blink182 -- just because they're popular.
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XP sucks, use Linux. (http://smile.gif)
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quote:
Originally posted by void main:
XP sucks, use Linux. (http://smile.gif)
You know what? I installed Mandrake 9.0 last week and played with it for a few hours and I've come to the conclusion that Linux still sucks. Not as bad as it used to(it isn't as command line dependant now) but it is still nowhere near Windows in friendliness. Take for instance, I wanted to access my Windows partation in Linux and even that was a chore. In Windows you would just go to my computer and double click on the drive partion you want to view(only takes a few seconds to do), in Mandrake you have to type in /dev/(whatever your partation name is) in Konquerer(I think that was the default Mandrake browser) to access the partation. For a person who does not know how to access partations in Linux it would take them a while to figure it out. What should be a few second task can very easily become a several minute to several hour task in Linux. Luckily for me I have some Linux knowledge so it wasn't an issue for me...but what I'm trying to point out is that simple tasks are made difficult in Linux(for the non-tech types).
It also pissed me off that I wasn't able to run most of my favorite games and N64 emulators in Linux. So what am I supposed to do in Linux? Am I supposed to sit around and surf the net all the time or work in OpenOffice all the time? I think not...In Windows I can surf, work and play all in one nice looking, easy to use OS.
Another thing that pissed me off about Mandrake is the media player that came with it would cause my machine to lock up every single time I tried to listen to a 128kbps or better MP3. I have never had WMP or any other media player in Windows cause my machine to lock up. If media causing a machine to lock up is your idea of stability then you must have something wrong with your head. Sure Linux didn't crash, it just hard locked. ;P
Linux didn't have P2P programs nearly as good as Windows P2P programs(the Gnutella is a joke because alot of the users on it are leechers who refuse to let people download from them) for downloading music, videos, apps and those damned video games that I have come to know and love ;P.
Another thing I didn't like about Linux was the interface. I didn't care for the new KDE at all. It was dog ugly in my opinion. None of the other GUI's were attractive or practicle either.
Mandrake took considerably longer to fully boot up than Windows XP does. I also noticed that my CPU temps in Linux were like 6+ degrees Celsius higher at all times in Linux than they were in Windows XP(I guess WinNT's built in HLT CPU commands make a difference).
I've came to the conclusion that I'm not going to bother with Linux again. There is no compelling reason for me to use it because Windows does everything that Linux does only it is easier(can get done faster) in Windows plus Windows has the app/game library that I need.
If anything I'll say tha t Mandrake was a waste of my time and a waste of 2 CD's.
Thankfully Linux will be no more if MS successfully goes through with Palladium. ;)
[ October 01, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]
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quote:
XP sucks, use Linux.
What did I say? (http://smile.gif)
You have a good point Zombie, but that doesn't always apply. I sometimes can not see the problems with something until someone points it out...
Like spyware. Im not really concerened about it right now. Im more concerned about speed, 0ldsk00l, and stability. Also viruses and h4x0ring don't concern, because I don't seem to get viried, and I don't seem to get h4x0red. (http://smile.gif)
Of course there is always a first time and I don't back up my system. So it's good that im investing the time to slowly learn Linux.
I can see where your coming from Zombie. I don't think it's that Linux is not user friendly, im sure it's very user friendly if you master it. The key is that wind0ze is a jump on and go system, Linux is not.
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Mandrake? You didn't have to waste any CDs, I coulda told you that sucked. N64 emulators? Why not just get an N64, or maybe a life? Hmmm, you spent $1500 on your machine and $300 on your operating system to emulate a machine you can get for $10 at the salvation army. Makes sense to me....
[ October 01, 2002: Message edited by: void main ]
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quote:
Originally posted by lazygamer:
What did I say? (http://smile.gif)
You have a good point Zombie, but that doesn't always apply. I sometimes can not see the problems with something until someone points it out...
Like spyware. Im not really concerened about it right now. Im more concerned about speed, 0ldsk00l, and stability. Also viruses and h4x0ring don't concern, because I don't seem to get viried, and I don't seem to get h4x0red. (http://smile.gif)
Of course there is always a first time and I don't back up my system. So it's good that im investing the time to slowly learn Linux.
I can see where your coming from Zombie. I don't think it's that Linux is not user friendly, im sure it's very user friendly if you master it. The key is that wind0ze is a jump on and go system, Linux is not.
The thing is, XP doesn't spy on you like Linux Zealots try to say that it does. WMP does the exact same thing all other media players do, it connects to a server to get album info for the compact media that you are listening to. Big deal huh? The thing is, it is ok for other players to do it but it is bad if WMP does it. :rolleyes: .
I would like to know what exactly is in Windows XP that spies on you and where is the proof? Anyone can lie about something, I don't believe it until there is good proof.
My firewall has never once picked up a log of anything Microsoft trying to phone home and spy on me(and yes I pay close attention to my firewall log).
I think alot of these Anti-MS people are full of shit.
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Let me add a little to the discussion:
3 computers, non-firewalled on the campus network where my sister is going. One is running XP, another OS X 10.2, and one Linux.
2 Weeks later, the WintelXP has 180 viruses (Nimda, Klez, Sircam, ETC) and it even has a virus scanner.
The Linux PC has no virii
The Mac machine got some Nimda files on it (*.eml), but they did nothing, and they were easily deleted.
As for conformity/popularity, it's for idiots IMO. Most people who try to be like other people have very little knowledge of there own in my experience. In the case of some people I know, they used what came on the computer, and haven't changed it. People are still running 98 SE because they don't know how/when/why to upgrade/switch.
/Rant
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quote:
Originally posted by void main:
Mandrake? You didn't have to waste any CDs, I coulda told you that sucked. N64 emulators? Why not just get an N64, or maybe a life? Hmmm, you spent $1500 on your machine and $300 on your operating system to emulate a machine you can get for $10 at the salvation army. Makes sense to me....
[ October 01, 2002: Message edited by: void main ]
Heh, N64 games in 1600x1200x32bpp w/ 2x FSAA looks a hell of alot better than the real N64's native NTSC resolution. PSX games look alot better on an emultor in high resolutions than a real PSX too.
BTW, I can play my games on my TV from my PC in NTSC resolutions with the addition of 4x FSAA(which makes it look better than the real thing on the TV too ;P).
As for the get a life statement, perhaps maybe you should practice what you preach. I'm not the fool who spends 24/7 hours of my life on a fucking forum trying to convert people to an immature OS. I do alot of other things in my life than sit around on the MES and other pro Linux forums. I've been gone from online life for nearly a month and sure enough...when I return...VoidMain is still sitting here online posting on a stupid forum. That is a real exciting life, eh? LoL
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quote:
Originally posted by Zombie9920:
(EDIT)I'm not bashing Win2K at all because it is a great performing/stable OS too(much better than Win9x)..Im just saying it is outdated and primitave compared to XP.
[ October 01, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]
If by primitive you mean lacking in DRM and spyware, then you are correct, XP is light years ahead of W2k in terms of that. Skinning? Whatever do you mean? Windows 2000 supports windowblinds, doesn't it? If you think the default XP interface looks good then you are on crack. Red Hat's bluecurve looks much more professional.
I've seen your posts before, Zombie328529, and I must ask you, why do you come to an anti-Microsoft site with this drivel? 98% of people here have used Windows extensively before, and switched to Linux/Mac because they figured out from experience that Windows sucks. I'm appalled that you find WMP to be a "deciding factor" in using XP. What's so great about it anyway? All it does is support DRM and the proliferation of Windoze Media (TM) files that aren't viewable on other platforms. Fortunately, I come across very little windows media files on the internet, probably because the format sucks. Linux can play 90% of media files out of the box using Xine and xmms, and ogle (which doesn't come in any Linux distro in the US because it violates the DMCA - but is easily downloadable) allows Linux to play any DVD -- even encrypted ones.
quote:
Posted by lazygamer:
So should I go through the effort to get a pirated W2000 and wash off my Xpee? Or is XPee really not so bad?
You're a step in the right direction somewhat (removing XP) but you're still using Windows. I suppose if you must use Windows (and I don't see that you do, unless your hardware doesn't work on Linux (doubtfull) or you need to use a lot of Windows-only programs (flash, photoshop, all that shit) then just use whatever you think you want. If your current copy of XP itself is pirated, then go ahead and put 2K on your machine, since Microsoft will bomb your copy of XP if you try to install SP1. (might be the same with 2k but I doubt it) Frankly XP gave me more shit than 2k ever did, what with problems with my cd-burner, internet explorer freezing up on me when accessing certain sites, giving fatal errors while shutting down, etc. But mainly, it's XP's bullcrap like DRM, alleged spyware in WMP, pirated copies being bombed by M$, uninstallable IE, paving the way for Palladium, and so on that make it a dubious choice for an OS. Honestly, XP sucks compared to Linux no matter how you slice it. (Zombie will disagree I'm sure) Check out Red Hat 8, I'm using it right now and it's great. It's easier to install than any version of Windows, it has automatic updates, a great interface that looks a lot better than anything I've ever seen (Mac OS X included, which I think looks too loud) and is totally free. You'll be so glad to be rid of memory-hungry virus scanners, nagware shareware apps, having to crack programs, and messing with the Windoze registry just to install updates on your pirated system. Just say No! to Windows. ;)
[ October 01, 2002: Message edited by: Orc Peon ]
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I post on forums that fit my feelings. You on the other hand appear to only be here to stir up trouble. If I were "pro-Windows" I would go help those poor saps out at http://www.windowsbbs.com/ (http://www.windowsbbs.com/) as they surely need all the help they can get. All I see over there are losers.
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quote:
Originally posted by The_Muffin_Man/B0b:
Let me add a little to the discussion:
3 computers, non-firewalled on the campus network where my sister is going. One is running XP, another OS X 10.2, and one Linux.
2 Weeks later, the WintelXP has 180 viruses (Nimda, Klez, Sircam, ETC) and it even has a virus scanner.
The Linux PC has no virii
The Mac machine got some Nimda files on it (*.eml), but they did nothing, and they were easily deleted.
As for conformity/popularity, it's for idiots IMO. Most people who try to be like other people have very little knowledge of there own in my experience. In the case of some people I know, they used what came on the computer, and haven't changed it. People are still running 98 SE because they don't know how/when/why to upgrade/switch.
/Rant
You know why the Windows machine got hit by viruses? It is because Windows is so popular and so widely used that people make viruses for Windows to cause mass destruction. If Linux was used by nearly as many people as Windows there would be alot of Linux virii. Why would anyone write a mass destruction program(virus) for an OS that only has .025% of the desktop OS share? That would be pointless if you ask me. If people would get a good AV program for Windows it wouldn't be a problem. Knowing an Open Source freak though, he probably chose to use some freeware AV program and didn't bother to update virus definitions(which is why the machine got infected).
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quote:
Originally posted by Orc Peon:
If by primitive you mean lacking in DRM and spyware, then you are correct, XP is light years ahead of W2k in terms of that. Skinning? Whatever do you mean? Windows 2000 supports windowblinds, doesn't it? If you think the default XP interface looks good then you are on crack. Red Hat's bluecurve looks much more professional.
Ehh? WindowsBlinds fucking sucks dude. When I say skinable, I mean modifying MS Style Visual Styles. Windows Blinds skins can be very slow when compared to the built in skinning system that XP has. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't alot of Windows Blinds themes have Alpha Blending issues?
Now, can you prove to me that XP is full of spyware? I'm not going to believe a un-proven comment made by a Anti-MS zealot. Where is your cold-hard proof buddy?
[ October 01, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]
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quote:
Originally posted by void main:
I post on forums that fit my feelings. You on the other hand appear to only be here to stir up trouble. If I were "pro-Windows" I would go help those poor saps out at http://www.windowsbbs.com/ (http://www.windowsbbs.com/) as they surely need all the help they can get. All I see over there are losers.
I don't have the time to sit on my ass all day and help people with OS problems. That is what paid technichians are for. I think that some of you are pretty big losers for sitting on these damn forums all day everyday. Here in a few minutes I'll be outta here cause I have places to go(I have a nice lil party to attend to tonight :D ).
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quote:
Originally posted by Zombie9920:
You know why the Windows machine got hit by viruses? It is because Windows is so popular and so widely used that people make viruses for Windows to cause mass destruction. If Linux was used by nearly as many people as Windows there would be alot of Linux virii. Why would anyone write a mass destruction program(virus) for an OS that only has .025% of the desktop OS share? That would be pointless if you ask me. If people would get a good AV program for Windows it wouldn't be a problem. Knowing an Open Source freak though, he probably chose to use some freeware AV program and didn't bother to update virus definitions(which is why the machine got infected).
Again, spreading bullshit. Zombie, in Windows a person opens the wrong email attachment and a virus is launched infecting Windows system files. For the 2 millionth time. This can not happen on a Linux system. Users do not have write access to any executable files, therefore viruses can not work. Quit spreading shit already...
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quote:
Originally posted by Zombie9920:
I don't have the time to sit on my ass all day and help people with OS problems. That is what paid technichians are for. I think that some of you are pretty big losers for sitting on these damn forums all day everyday. Here in a few minutes I'll be outta here cause I have places to go(I have a nice lil party to attend to tonight :D ).
Unfortunately the only reason I am spending so much time on-line helping people is because I busted up some bones and don't have any other choice. They're healing up real nice so I likely won't have nearly the time to spend here that I have for the last couple of months. I'll be out trying to break more bones.
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quote:
Originally posted by void main:
Again, spreading bullshit. Zombie, in Windows a person opens the wrong email attachment and a virus is launched infecting Windows system files. For the 2 millionth time. This can not happen on a Linux system. Users do not have write access to any executable files, therefore viruses can not work. Quit spreading shit already...
Unless you are logged in as root. I'm sure some of the clever virus programmers out there could write damaging viruses for Linux that would work no matter what the circumstance is. Like I said, Linux isn't used by enough people for a virus writer to even waste his time writing a virus for Linux.
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quote:
Posted by Zombie283527879:
You know why the Windows machine got hit by viruses? It is because Windows is so popular and so widely used that people make viruses for Windows to cause mass destruction. If Linux was used by nearly as many people as Windows there would be alot of Linux virii. Why would anyone write a mass destruction program(virus) for an OS that only has .025% of the desktop OS share? That would be pointless if you ask me. If people would get a good AV program for Windows it wouldn't be a problem. Knowing an Open Source freak though, he probably chose to use some freeware AV program and didn't bother to update virus definitions(which is why the machine got infected).
Do you know why Windows gets hit by viruses? It's because the OS wasn't built from the groud up with security in mind, unlike *NIX systems. Any ol' program can fuck up your system files, which is unheard of under Linux. I find it odd that you would use the argument that the reason Windows seems to have more security flaws than Linux is because it is more widely used, since Windows has a smaller market share than Linux on the server end, and yet strangely, it suffered more defacements in 2001 than all other OS's combined, according to securitystats.com. How about them apples?
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quote:
Originally posted by Zombie9920:
I wanted to access my Windows partation in Linux and even that was a chore. In Windows you would just go to my computer and double click on the drive partion you want to view(only takes a few seconds to do),
Try getting to your linux files in Windows.
Doesn't it only support fat32 and ntfs formatted filesystems?
[ October 01, 2002: Message edited by: TheQuirk ]
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quote:
Originally posted by TheQuirk:
Try getting to your linux files in Windows.
Doesn't it only support fat32 and ntfs formatted filesystems?
[ October 01, 2002: Message edited by: TheQuirk ]
I'll give you that, Windows can't access Linux partations. You can get your Linux files onto your Windows partation though. To do that you would simply copy the files over to the Windows partation from Linux.
Linux doesn't handle NTFS the greatest though, so the partion argument isn't that big of a thing.
[ October 01, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]
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quote:
Originally posted by Zombie9920:
Unless you are logged in as root. I'm sure some of the clever virus programmers out there could write damaging viruses for Linux that would work no matter what the circumstance is. Like I said, Linux isn't used by enough people for a virus writer to even waste his time writing a virus for Linux.
UNIX 101, you don't do user stuff as root, guess you haven't read that chapter. Oh that's right, you used it for 2 hours and now you are an expert on the subject... And BTW, even as root you will not launch a virus by reading email. Linux mail clients aren't brain dead enough to allow execution of code from unknown sources simply be reading a message. Who's dumb ass idea was that one?
[ October 01, 2002: Message edited by: void main ]
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quote:
Originally posted by Zombie9920:
You know why the Windows machine got hit by viruses? It is because Windows is so popular and so widely used that people make viruses for Windows to cause mass destruction. If Linux was used by nearly as many people as Windows there would be alot of Linux virii. Why would anyone write a mass destruction program(virus) for an OS that only has .025% of the desktop OS share? That would be pointless if you ask me. If people would get a good AV program for Windows it wouldn't be a problem. Knowing an Open Source freak though, he probably chose to use some freeware AV program and didn't bother to update virus definitions(which is why the machine got infected).
Who said I was an open source freak?!?
The virus scanner used was McAfee.com services. Not exactly open source. Norton was used after McAfee couldn't find and remove all of the viruses.
(http://www.akgames.net:8000/downloads/files/personal/1.gif)
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quote:
Originally posted by void main:
UNIX 101, you don't do user stuff as root, guess you haven't read that chapter. Oh that's right, you used it for 2 hours and your decision was made.
I've used it more than 2 hours in the past(because my job forced me to learn how to use Linux and Unix). I don't need a book to tell me not to do stuff as root because I already know that. ;P
Tell that to the fools who will be using Lindows in the future. IT is to my understanding that everything in Lindows is done when logged in as root.
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Even logged in as root mail programs in Linux are not brain dead enough to execute code let alone from unknown sources just by reading a message. Who's dumb ass idea was that?
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quote:
Originally posted by Zombie9920:
You know why the Windows machine got hit by viruses? It is because Windows is so popular and so widely used that people make viruses for Windows to cause mass destruction. If Linux was used by nearly as many people as Windows there would be alot of Linux virii. Why would anyone write a mass destruction program(virus) for an OS that only has .025% of the desktop OS share? That would be pointless if you ask me. If people would get a good AV program for Windows it wouldn't be a problem. Knowing an Open Source freak though, he probably chose to use some freeware AV program and didn't bother to update virus definitions(which is why the machine got infected).
M$'s punishment for being a monopoly. I know a number of people who wrote virii, and most of them were out to prove that Winblows is such a shitty, insecure product. It's not even about destroying computers anymore...they are trying to prove a point you idiot.
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quote:
Originally posted by The_Muffin_Man/B0b:
Who said I was an open source freak?!?
The virus scanner used was McAfee.com services. Not exactly open source. Norton was used after McAfee couldn't find and remove all of the viruses.
(http://www.akgames.net:8000/downloads/files/personal/1.gif)
McCafee isn't exactly the best AV software to initially use. That reminds me of theMcAfee anti-virus software fails to block Klez virus (http://www.silicon.com/public/door?6004REQEVENT=&REQINT1=54540&REQSTR1=silicon.com) warning that was out not very long ago. If McCafee can't block the Klez virus very well what makes you think it will protect against other viruses effectivley. If you had've been using Norton AV 2002 or 2003 initially I bet you wouldn't have ever go the viruses to begin with. I am satisfied with Norton cause my system has never been infected once by any viruses or E-Mail worms since I started using Norton.
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quote:
Originally posted by Zombie9920:
I've used it more than 2 hours in the past(because my job forced me to learn how to use Linux and Unix). I don't need a book to tell me not to do stuff as root because I already know that. ;P
Tell that to the fools who will be using Lindows in the future. IT is to my understanding that everything in Lindows is done when logged in as root.
Lindows sucks! Who said anyone should use Lindows, or that it was good? They are almost as bad as M$.
See my sig.
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quote:
Posted by Zombie:
Now, can you prove to me that XP is full of spyware? I'm not going to believe a un-proven comment made by a Anti-MS zealot. Where is your cold-hard proof buddy?
First of all, because Windows is closed source it could be full of spyware and backdoors, since you can't just look at the source code to prove otherwise. However, I'm the one making the claim that Windows has spyware, so I won't ask you to "disprove" it. That'd be like me saying to you "prove God doesn't exist, otherwise he exists!"
Here's an interesting article for you to read that might raise a few questions:
http://theregister.co.uk/content/archive/24815.html (http://theregister.co.uk/content/archive/24815.html)
Just what is the definition of "spyware," anyway? Before we can decide if Windows XP is indeed spyware, we have to define spyware. I'd say spyware is any software that reports what you do on your computer or can view files or upload things to your computer without your consent. Under that definition XP is certainly spyware, it even says so in the MS EULA. On page 6, you "acknowledge and agree that Microsoft may automatically check the version of the Product and / or It's components that you are utilizing and may provide upgrades or fixes to the product that will be automatically downloaded to your Workstation Computer." That is spyware in my book, especially since it is capable of doing it without your consent. Under that clause Microsoft could secretly apply a patch to everyone's copy of WMP that incorporates more digital rights management, or any number of other possibilities.
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quote:
Originally posted by The_Muffin_Man/B0b:
M$'s punishment for being a monopoly. I know a number of people who wrote virii, and most of them were out to prove that Winblows is such a shitty, insecure product. It's not even about destroying computers anymore...they are trying to prove a point you idiot.
They are trying to prove that if everyone had a real life and didn't have the time to sit on thier asses all day cyberspace would be a much better place. Really, why don't people who write viruses go find something constructive to do with thier time? Fuck this place, I have stuff to go do tonight. I'll fight with you all later. ;P
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quote:
Originally posted by Zombie9920:
McCafee isn't exactly the best AV software to initially use. That reminds me of theMcAfee anti-virus software fails to block Klez virus (http://www.silicon.com/public/door?6004REQEVENT=&REQINT1=54540&REQSTR1=silicon.com) warning that was out not very long ago. If McCafee can't block the Klez virus very well what makes you think it will protect against other viruses effectivley. If you had've been using Norton AV 2002 or 2003 initially I bet you wouldn't have ever go the viruses to begin with. I am satisfied with Norton cause my system has never been infected once by any viruses or E-Mail worms since I started using Norton.
This is just plain funny. If Microsoft operating systems were worth a shit, there would be no need for AV vendors. And if Microsoft is so good, why the hell don't they have their own AV software, after all they wrote the OS, they should know the most about the subject. Oh yeah, it's not their problem.
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quote:
Originally posted by Orc Peon:
First of all, because Windows is closed source it could be full of spyware and backdoors, since you can't just look at the source code to prove otherwise. However, I'm the one making the claim that Windows has spyware, so I won't ask you to "disprove" it. That'd be like me saying to you "prove God doesn't exist, otherwise he exists!"
Here's an interesting article for you to read that might raise a few questions:
http://theregister.co.uk/content/archive/24815.html (http://theregister.co.uk/content/archive/24815.html)
Just what is the definition of "spyware," anyway? Before we can decide if Windows XP is indeed spyware, we have to define spyware. I'd say spyware is any software that reports what you do on your computer or can view files or upload things to your computer without your consent. Under that definition XP is certainly spyware, it even says so in the MS EULA. On page 6, you "acknowledge and agree that Microsoft may automatically check the version of the Product and / or It's components that you are utilizing and may provide upgrades or fixes to the product that will be automatically downloaded to your Workstation Computer." That is spyware in my book, especially since it is capable of doing it without your consent. Under that clause Microsoft could secretly apply a patch to everyone's copy of WMP that incorporates more digital rights management, or any number of other possibilities.
From the article- MS doesn't collect information about local searches. "No information is ever collected by Search Companion when you search your local system, LAN, or intranet for any reason."
I certainly didn't pick up anything to contradict that. But there is some obvious collecting when SA is used to search the Internet.
Boodaya, search assistant isn't spying on you. It is simply updating some files. Big whoopidity doo. Oh-No, MS is going to use my IP that connected to there server against me. Maybe MES forums spy on us because it logs IP's when people connect to it and posts. What a bunch of fucking retards some of you are.
It is a fact that when a machine connects to a host machine the host will log the IP of the machine connecting to it. :rolleyes:
I said I want some *proof* of *spyware*. LoL
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quote:
Originally posted by Zombie9920:
They are trying to prove that if everyone had a real life and didn't have the time to sit on thier asses all day cyberspace would be a much better place. Really, why don't people who write viruses go find something constructive to do with thier time? Fuck this place, I have stuff to go do tonight. I'll fight with you all later. ;P
How many times are you going to claim you have a life? You have been sitting on the boards for 2 hours fighting with us over futile shit. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, FUCKING LEAVE, AND DON'T COME BACK TROLL! :mad:
/Really PO'ed and sick of listening to Zombie's relentless bitching
[ October 01, 2002: Message edited by: The_Muffin_Man/B0b ]
[ October 01, 2002: Message edited by: The_Muffin_Man/B0b ]
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Norton??!?!?!?! That shoddy shitware is worse than a virus!! Deleted half my documents, SystemWorks did!
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quote:
Originally posted by Orc Peon:
Norton??!?!?!?! That shoddy shitware is worse than a virus!! Deleted half my documents, SystemWorks did!
Systemworks is dangerous if you misuse it(I've fucked shit up in Windows 98 with systemworks). I only use thier AV software and the personal firewall(which is a very good firewall especially combined with a few other firewalls).
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quote:
Originally posted by The_Muffin_Man/B0b:
How many times are you going to claim you have a life? You have been sitting on the boards for 2 hours fighting with us over futile shit. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, FUCKING LEAVE, AND DON'T COME BACK TROLL! :mad:
/Really PO'ed and sick of listening to Zombie's relentless bitching
[ October 01, 2002: Message edited by: The_Muffin_Man/B0b ]
[ October 01, 2002: Message edited by: The_Muffin_Man/B0b ]
Ok, I'm outta here for real this time. I will be back sometime though(lucky you). ;P
I'm not a troll, I just don't don't go by what rumors that unprofessional computer users have to say about software that they dislike(just because the software is made by a monopoly). I need good proof before believe rumors. Have a good night gents.
P.S. It sounds like you are the one bitching and moaning in that message. I'm just sitting here having a nice lil argument. I'm not whining about anything. Personally I don't care what OS you people use. I do find it rather unusual that 90% of the Linux community are the no-life type people who sit on a comp all day. Most of you are probably living in your parents' basement. LoL
[ October 02, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]
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quote:
Originally posted by void main:
This is just plain funny. If Microsoft operating systems were worth a shit, there would be no need for AV vendors. And if Microsoft is so good, why the hell don't they have their own AV software, after all they wrote the OS, they should know the most about the subject. Oh yeah, it's not their problem.
One more comment to make. ;P
If MS made AV software and built it into the OS people would cry that MS is trying to drive AV vendors out of business(an anti-trust case waiting to happen). MS is damned if they don't and MS is damned if they do. It is like a catch 22. :rolleyes:
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quote:
Maybe MES forums spy on us because it logs IP's when people connect to it and posts. What a bunch of fucking retards some of you are.
You're right, some web pages do spy on you, in a way, using cookies and referrer logging. I don't, however, think that the help agent in Windows needs to upload stuff like that, for any reason, without first asking.
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quote:
Originally posted by Zombie9920:
Systemworks is dangerous if you misuse it(I've fucked shit up in Windows 98 with systemworks). I only use thier AV software and the personal firewall(which is a very good firewall especially combined with a few other firewalls).
So let me get this straight. I pay $300 for a nice shiney XP CD. Then I go install the thing which of course requires me to make a Call to Microsoft so they can make sure I didn't steal it. Then I have to buy a couple of copies of AV software. How much is that going to cost me? Then I have to find some good firewall software? Oh, then if I want to create some documents or spread sheets I gotta spend how much more for Office XP? And then if I want to learn a little programming I have to spend how much more for Visual Crappio.NET? Then if I want to do some database work I need to spend how much more on SQL Server?
Seems like a pretty incomplete package to me, not to mention a scam.
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quote:
Originally posted by Zombie9920:
If MS made AV software and built it into the OS people would cry that MS is trying to drive AV vendors out of business(an anti-trust case waiting to happen). MS is damned if they don't and MS is damned if they do. It is like a catch 22. :rolleyes:
No, they were damned from the start because there never should have been a *need* for AV vendors.
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quote:
Originally posted by Zombie9920:
Ok, I'm outta here for real this time. I will be back sometime though(lucky you). ;P
I'm not a troll, I just don't don't go by what rumors that unprofessional computer users have to say about software that they dislike(just because the software is made by a monopoly). I need good proof before believe rumors. Have a good night gents.
P.S. It sounds like you are the one bitching and moaning in that message. I'm just sitting here having a nice lil argument. I'm not whining about anything. Personally I don't care what OS you people use. I do find it rather unusual that 90% of the Linux community are the no-life type people who sit on a comp all day. Most of you are probably living in your parents' basement. LoL
[ October 02, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]
I'm not bitching, you are. Definiton of bitching:
3. Slang. A complaint.
4. Slang. Something very unpleasant or difficult.
YOU are being very unpleasant and difficult. I'm not complaining, I'm just telling you to fuck off, OK? (http://www.akgames.net:8000/downloads/files/personal/1.gif)
You need proof? You have plenty of proof, but you are interpreting it wrong. Wake up and look at it from more than one perspective. You need to see things from more than one side to understand it, and use it.
*I once thought Windows was good (like you)...I tried Linux, and hated it (like you), then I tried a Mac with an open mind, and loved it*
I'm not going to argue any further. Your OS is your choice, just go somewhere appropriate with it, like www.windowsbbs.com (http://www.windowsbbs.com) or start your own that isn't full of losers.
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ya, it's spyware:
http://www.newsfactor.com/perl/story/16455.html (http://www.newsfactor.com/perl/story/16455.html)
And eaven if you say, "well it's only media player"
What are your thought's on compulsory product activation? TCPA, and the rest of the framework built up in the EULA?
I mean comeon, maybe it's not spyware, maybe it's more like REICHware.
I don't give a shit if they spy or not, but they are deffinetly after more controll over people's lives than they should be in contoll of.
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I always wonder as to what people think Bill is doing with any info he may be collecting. I doubt he plans on trying some worldwide coup. That's a bit silly. Use info to somehow obliterate all competition? There's seemingly little competition with windows on so damned many pc's, and the existince of mac and linux are helping MS' trust troubles. Selling to marketing guys? Who knows. But those guys get info from anyone/everyone anyway. Every CD, DVD, Game, Software, Hardware you buy is kept track of so they know what's popular and what's not. I'm sure you guys have plenty other thoughts on this.
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Lol I can't believe I singlehandedly started a flamewar, causing Zombie to leave in disgust.
Well Void, I have never had a broken bone, I think it's because im l33t but I could be wrong. ;)
So because you're layed up for the next 2 months, I'd better try and discover all my Linux questions and then ask them, so you can answer them. If you the time, my "Lazy's Linux Adventures thread" has many "Linux X-files" that haven't been solved yet. ;)
What side to I take on the spyware? I take the MES side.
Hmmm any other W2000 VS XP comments?
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Nah, you didn't start the flame war. Zombie and I like to get into a good slingin' every couple of weeks. It's fun. I'll try and help you with any Linux questions you have.
As far as the Win questions I'll leave that to Zombie. I don't believe I've ever seen him actually try and help anyone who comes to this BBS with Win problems. He just likes getting in the slingin' contest. But we all love him here. If it weren't for him, this place would be pretty boring.
[ October 02, 2002: Message edited by: void main ]
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quote:
Originally posted by Zombie9920:
Tell that to the fools who will be using Lindows in the future. IT is to my understanding that everything in Lindows is done when logged in as root.
Who here would even consider Lindows as a real linux distro?
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s
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quote:
Ghost: s
Wow, really huh? That's cool, I'll try to hit the "S" button now.
S
Cool, a "S" just displayed on the screen! These things called computers are really amazing (http://tongue.gif)
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quote:
Originally posted by Ex Eleven / b0b:
because if palladium goes through then there will be no more P2P apps, and stuff like that.
Only if you are using M$ software. Another example of M$ shooting themselves in the foot. I am beginning to think that Palladium might be the best thing that could happen to Linux. It will give people more reason to ditch M$ and go Linux. When they figure out they can no longer play music files or use P2P apps it will be the last straw for many more windoids. Go Palladium!
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Lol that is a good argument, suddenly im less troubled by Palladium. Maybe Palladium will just work itself out, and too many things will go wrong, causing an MS meltdown. (http://smile.gif)
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Ok so after having XP re-installed a couple of months ago, it seems to perform wonderfully. It hasn't crashed in quite some time, and it handles well when you have alot of programs open.
I would be willing to go to W2000 just because you guys say it's XP with less bullshit. Question is, are you guys 100% POSITIVE that speed and performance wise it is as good as XP?
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quote:
Originally posted by void main:
Only if you are using M$ software. Another example of M$ shooting themselves in the foot. I am beginning to think that Palladium might be the best thing that could happen to Linux. It will give people more reason to ditch M$ and go Linux. When they figure out they can no longer play music files or use P2P apps it will be the last straw for many more windoids. Go Palladium!
M$ are not stupid, nor are they static. at the first hint of some exodus to linux happening, M$ will change the rules temporarily just long enough not to frighten people away.
don't count yer chickens...
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quote:
Originally posted by Zombie9920:
You know why the Windows machine got hit by viruses? It is because Windows is so popular and so widely used that people make viruses for Windows to cause mass destruction. If Linux was used by nearly as many people as Windows there would be alot of Linux virii. Why would anyone write a mass destruction program(virus) for an OS that only has .025% of the desktop OS share? That would be pointless if you ask me. If people would get a good AV program for Windows it wouldn't be a problem. Knowing an Open Source freak though, he probably chose to use some freeware AV program and didn't bother to update virus definitions(which is why the machine got infected).
hmmmm i've got some numbers that might put ur ass back in ur place.....
Linux: 47,100,000
Winblows: 43,800,000
Unix: 12,200,000
Open Source: 2,740,000
Free Software: 1,760,000
those are the OS and software numbers coming from a variety of resources....one of which i'm looking at right now and have been for a while, Linux Journal magazine - August 2002 issue page 70. under the topic - scoring 100. read it, you might find some interesting shit about really how popular linux is compared to winbloze....l8r
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BUMP TIME! Ok I need a question answered.
Does Windows 2000 have superior legacy compatibility to Windows XP?
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surely it would depend entirely on the actual programs you were trying to run.
Zombie467284623846 and the XP users will probably be able to answer this better than i ever could.
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No offense to zombie, but I would trust MES more then him. Spyware? Gotcha. W2K=XP but less ghey. Whatever you say. Windows sucks use Linux. Working on it. (http://smile.gif)
Sure Zombie said XP has better legacy compatibility, but you think im going to believe him? I'd rather here it from MES. ;)
Of course it may not matter in the end, getting an OS is not so easy, don't know how the fuck my brother does it. Maybe I'll just master XP(and supra tweak it) and learn Linux... and Wine.
What programs do I run? Games. Programs that normally run on Windows 98(Native win or dos box) but decide not to run on XP. What, you think im all concerened about legacy productivity applications? :D
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true, there's the bullshit factor, but how can people comment if they actively try not to use windows?
i've never used windows XP for any 'legacy' things, from what little i have used it, it seemed to have scant support for running its OWN programs. Internet explorer seemed to give it a bit of a hard time with multiple windows open, and so on. not the best.
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quote:
Originally posted by lazygamer:
No offense to zombie, but I would trust MES more then him. Spyware? Gotcha. W2K=XP but less ghey. Whatever you say. Windows sucks use Linux. Working on it. (http://smile.gif)
Sure Zombie said XP has better legacy compatibility, but you think im going to believe him? I'd rather here it from MES. ;)
Of course it may not matter in the end, getting an OS is not so easy, don't know how the fuck my brother does it. Maybe I'll just master XP(and supra tweak it) and learn Linux... and Wine.
What programs do I run? Games. Programs that normally run on Windows 98(Native win or dos box) but decide not to run on XP. What, you think im all concerened about legacy productivity applications? :D
Lets see, you have a Win9x only app/game that refuses to run in WinXP(My old Tomb Raider games are like that)..no big deal, you right click on the executable of the app/game(or you can right click on the shortcut to the executable), go to properties, then go to the compatability tab and you set it to Windows 98/ME compatability. Boom it works flawlessly. Try that in Win2K(considering Win2K doesn't have legacy OS compatability layers).
You have a DOS app/game that won't work in WinXP, right click on the executable and go to properties..in the memoery settings crank up the allocation of all the differnt memory settings to the Max(they Max out at what DOS originally offered as the Max for each memory type like EMS, XMS, DPMI and the Conventional Memory). Go to the Screen tab and disable Fast ROM emulation and Dynamic memory allocation and it should work. If not put it in 95 or 98/ME compatability on top of the rest of the settings also and then it will work.
The best way to avoid DOS app/game problems is to physically go to the command prompt( start--programs--accessories--command prompt)and do it the old fashioned way(the problem is alot of people aren't smart enough to use DOS which is simple if you ask me) so they choose the point and click method which I just gave tips for in my last paragraph. Given, Win2K can run some legacy DOS apps, but they usually perform very poorly compared to how they perform in XP.
Anyways, I use the system everyday of my life and when I say that WinXP can do more than Win2K I really mean it, but suite yourself. If you really think Gates gives a fuck what porn you are looking at(you think it is spying) then go ahead and go back to a primative OS. It isn't like I really care what you use. LoL
BTW, Do you really think the MES members actually use XP? With that in mind, how can they tell you which Windows OS can do more than the other Windows OS? Most of them base thier opinions by thier hate for MS(which isn't always accurate). I know more about WinXP than the MES members do. On the other hand, most of the MES members use Linux everyday, so when it comes to Linux advice they know more than I do(obviously).
quote:
Originally posted by lazygamer:
but im kinda a dumb-dumb
I hate to say it, but I think I have to agree with that statement. ;P
[ October 18, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]
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zombie3673186, thanks for answering, you are the poster probably best equipped to do so, however i think you made a couple of little mistakes in your reply. firstly, he doesn't have to use a primitive OS if he chooses not to use XP, secondly, DOS is hard, not because it is difficult to use, but because it is not intuitive. you will probably be able to tell me how to do this, but i have never found a way to display help about a particular command or program, or use any of the microsoft standard programs really. I found scandisk better in DOS than it ever was in windows, but that's not really a program. Anyway i don't really use DOS so no wonder i don't know much about it. Okay, now this bit, which is interesting:
quote:
BTW, Do you really think the MES members actually use XP?
apart from the webmaster, all of us are members as much as each other. I think you are more of a member than me because, even though i registered first, i think you were posting here before i was... quote:
With that in mind, how can they tell you which Windows OS can do more than the other Windows OS?
my point exactly, as i said above. quote:
Most of them base thier opinions by thier hate for MS(which isn't always accurate).
:D and you seem to base that opinion (which you often voice, along with your idea that we all fear M$) on nothing but your own insecurities! i have a passionate dislike for M$' politics and practices but i would in no way claim that their software is crap simply because of that! i claim it is crap because it sucks! :D quote:
I know more about WinXP than the MES members do. On the other hand, most of the MES members use Linux everyday, so when it comes to Linux advice they know more than I do(obviously).
Obviously indeed, this i agree with totally.
[ October 18, 2002: Message edited by: Calum ]
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quote:
Try that in Win2K(considering Win2K doesn't have legacy OS compatability layers).
Yes it does.
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Microsoft Win9x was crap...I'll say that anyday. I did not like MS or thier software when I was using Win9x. At that time I first tried Linux and I did not like it either..not because it was crap, but because it couldn't run what I wanted it to run.
Then I turned to Win2K. I tried NT4 in the past and I did not like it because just like Linux, it couldn't run what I wanted it to run. After using Win2K for about a week I started to like MS products again because Win2K was quick(on my system at the time) it was able to run most(most, not everything) of what I wanted it to run and it never crashed on me. Then came XP..it is just as reliable as Win2K was but now I'm able to run*everything* that I want to run. WinXP made me feel that MS products are the best for consumers because I've had nothing short of an excellent experience with it. I tried Linux out again and it still wasn't able to run everything I want to run so Linux was not a viable solution for me. Since I started to use Win2K I quickly learned that the OS is as good as the person running it. If you go around and install every junk shareware app, memory hogging bell and whistle and bloated app that does the same thing as a better not so bloated app(like using Easy CD Creator over Nero) you are bound to have a few issues. Of course the issues are caused by the third party software not being written properly, it isn't a fault of the OS.
To get command help in DOS simply type help and hit enter. To get help in apps/games type the executable name(in the directory the executable is located in of course) and use the switch /? or -help at the end of the executables' name depending on the applike say the executable is demo.exe you would type demo -help or help /? respectivley).
[ October 18, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]
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quote:
Originally posted by flap:
Yes it does.
Then why haven't I ever seen it? It wasn't there after installing Win2K SP3, it wsn't there after installing every update that the Windows Update site had to offer. How do you manage to get the compatability layer in Win2K? I'd like to learn something new here. ;P
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I don't know why you've never seen it. I just searched google and apparently it's installed with sp2 but you have to enable it.
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quote:
Originally posted by flap:
I don't know why you've never seen it. I just searched google and apparently it's installed with sp2 but you have to enable it.
I know that it was supposed to be there with SP2(and SP3) but nonetheless it wasn't there for me even after installing the Service Packs. I was disappointed by this actually because I have Win2K on an old 450mhz PII box that I wouldn't even think of installing XP on(because the system is too slow for XP in my opinion).
[ October 18, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]
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Ok well maybe I've been a little too harsh on you Zombie, perhaps your wind0ze advice is pretty valuable. Although im sure even you can agree that XP user #343545945645 is a dolt. ;)
I have no problem with DOS. Dos is fucking simple if your not configuring a true dos enviroment. I've just never bothered to try running a program(assuming your talking about the dosbox, I don't know of XP being able to do a true dos reboot), because I assumed the GUI just does the same thing as typing in the .exe file.
Im well aware of the compatibility modes, but it seems that there is many cirucumstances where it don't work worth shit.
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quote:
Originally posted by Zombie9920:
I know that it was supposed to be there with SP2(and SP3) but nonetheless it wasn't there for me even after installing the Service Packs. I
It probably is there really, just hiding. For some reason you have to either regsvr it or play in the registry - see
MS Knowledge Base article Q279792 (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;EN-US;Q279792&)
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Start/Run
in the box type
regsvr32 %systemroot%\apppatch\slayerui.dll
and the tab should appear
had to look this up at NTFAQ though, didn't remember how I did it at my last install of Win2K.
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quote:
Originally posted by Zombie9920:
Tell that to the fools who will be using Lindows in the future. IT is to my understanding that everything in Lindows is done when logged in as root.
i've heard that many linux users don't think that lindows is a good os...i've heard ppl say that it doesn't have the good aspects of linux
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if you wanna prevent bout 80%+ of the virii out there, just do this.. (in windows of course)
just open up windows explorer.. click on tools, folder options.. file types.. scroll down to the 2 VBS entries.. and delete both of them...
then when you get an embedded virus, and you accidently click onit... most of them are visual basic. windows wont even open it properly if it cant open properly it cant be executed.. and of the other 20ish percent, nortons can handle them very nicely
just my .02
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or get linux and never worry about 100% of viruses again, and save a shitload of money that would otherwise have gone to norton and microsoft as well! great!
let's see a virus find the WINNT folder in my mandrake 9.0 setup...
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quote:
Originally posted by Zombie9920:
I know that it was supposed to be there with SP2(and SP3) but nonetheless it wasn't there for me even after installing the Service Packs. I was disappointed by this actually because I have Win2K on an old 450mhz PII box that I wouldn't even think of installing XP on(because the system is too slow for XP in my opinion).
[ October 18, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]
So XP is not faster and less resource friendly than WIn2k?
DJ
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quote:
Originally posted by i12bcd8d:
if you wanna prevent bout 80%+ of the virii out there, just do this.. (in windows of course)
just open up windows explorer.. click on tools, folder options.. file types.. scroll down to the 2 VBS entries.. and delete both of them...
then when you get an embedded virus, and you accidently click onit... most of them are visual basic. windows wont even open it properly if it cant open properly it cant be executed.. and of the other 20ish percent, nortons can handle them very nicely
just my .02
How bout nimda? (which actually comes preinstalled with certian m$ software)
V
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you just need a small dos program called nimdago, of course i bet winNT doesn't even run it properly, it being DOS. i could email it to people, but i won't, because as i said, it's not necessary now that mandrake 9.0 is out. My advice is just to upgrade.
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You can always find patchs and other such fixes to prevent existing windows virii. The problem with windows is that there are so many security holes that new methods of attack are being found every day. There are holes in Linux too, but they get fixes as soon as they are found. In win, in order to patch up your security holes, your often have to sign opressive agreements that give all of your freedom away to M$. Linux fixes on the other hand ask nothing of you. Virii that spread across networks, like CodeRed and Nimda, which happen to be the most far reaching virii, will not be prevented using the method above. They would be the other 20%. Think of the day when some script kiddie writes a virus that spreads using the same method but deletes all the files hard drives.
V
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i just dont understand you people..
YES win xp uses more resourses for the GUI then 2k does... but.. with just ONE rightclick of the mouse on the start button, you hit "properties" and switch to classic start menu.. and you can rightclick on my computer, properties, and advanced, performance and turn off ALL the eyecandy, and you can also do this by right clicking on desktop , properties, windows classic, and take away the effects..and BAM NOT more memory then 95/98 to run the gui..problem solved..and if that doesnt wet your palate.. here's a site to adjust all the windows 2k services so you have MORE memory free and enhanced performance this works for windows xp and 2k
http://www.systemsbysteve.com/winguides/w2kservices.htm (http://www.systemsbysteve.com/winguides/w2kservices.htm)
so when people on here cant use a search engine to inquire bout something that is seemingly botherting them so much..
how can anyone respect their opinion when the facts arent even investigated..
and error reporting can be disabled, auto updates can be disabled, remote registry, remote desktop can be disabled.. Upnp can be disabled..
i mean does anyone, or most on here, even know any kinda tweaks or where to find simple settings before opening their mouth and badmouthing 2 of the best pieces of software M$ ever put out. and dont bother flaming cause i'm NOT SAYING M$ is perfect.. but there 2 pieces of software are great efforts finally putting the 9x/me/nt4 legacy to REST for GOOD
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quote:
how can anyone respect their opinion when the facts arent even investigated..
and error reporting can be disabled, auto updates can be disabled, remote registry, remote desktop can be disabled.. Upnp can be disabled..
i mean does anyone, or most on here, even know any kinda tweaks or where to find simple settings before opening their mouth and badmouthing 2 of the best pieces of software M$ ever put out. and dont bother flaming cause i'm NOT SAYING M$ is perfect.. but there 2 pieces of software are great efforts finally putting the 9x/me/nt4 legacy to REST for GOOD
The main argument I see for using Windows is that it is supposedly more user friendly than Linux. But I must ask, how many average users are going to know how to disable things like auto-update, Universal Plug-n-Play, etc?
I'm sure there are lots of tweaks you can get to make the system slightly more stable, however, most average users won't know how to tweak it.
Sometimes Linux has to be tweaked, but so does Windows if you want to keep it stable. Judging by this, Windows isn't any more user friendly than Linux.