Stop Microsoft
All Things Microsoft => Microsoft Software => Topic started by: saddlemagic on 16 July 2002, 23:25
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I have gone around and around in my computer and have decided the base problem lies in Windows. I'm ready to convert this thing to a Linux OS, what do I do first?
This thing is a Pentium MMX, 233mHz, 96 meg RAM, 3 hard drives; 3gb, 4.3gb, 10.1gb each about half full. 32x CD-ROM, 56k modem, 1.44 Floppy, integrated video & 16 bit sound of some sort. The box was put together five years ago.
It's primary purpose is surfing the Internet, I like the Opera browser. Followed by processing digital photographs, IrfanView is my favorite graphics viewer/manipulator. And word processing, Corel suite 8, I only use the word processor. If this Ol'puter stays functional I will be happy with it for another five years, my only wish list item is a CD-RW.
I used to be a "PC Field Service Engineer" in the first half of the '90s, back when the 486-66 was the hottest processor out there and Win95 was called Chicago and only existed in dreams (nightmares?) I resigned my job the end of '94 and took up making saddles for a living. So, I do have some background in PC's, I did build and maintain my own but, I have no clue in the Linux world. Although I do learn fast.
Can anyone give me a hint as to what direction to go in? Funds are limited, Saddlers don't make lots of money and the birds eat most of that.
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first step is: get a copy of linux. preferably on a CD. then stick it in yr drive and boot from it, following the easy onscreen prompts. get one from http://linuxiso.org (http://linuxiso.org) if you have broadband or buy one mail order from a cheap mail order company such as www.yourlinux.co.uk (http://www.yourlinux.co.uk) (which is an English one, you need to find one in your country) and welcome to the bazaar!
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Yeah Calum has got it really. Unless you are a complete retard (which you are not) then you can learn linux. Mandrake is nice to start off with and SuSe make a version that you can use straight off the CD and it does not even touch you HDD(s). Never used it (SuSe Live) btu it could be good to give you an idea of the way things work before you install to HD. A comprehensive book helps but there a hordes of resources on the net and of course the Linux/UNIX forums (http://forum.fuckmicrosoft.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=5) right here.
Just go ahead, teach youself with some on-line guidance. Be like a child explore, fall over, get up again, and then don't fall the next time.
[ July 16, 2002: Message edited by: Tux ]
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Suse live is really good for someone who wants to see how linux is. It adds about 100 megs of files to your HD if it can read it. As long as it is not ntfs it is fine. But it is kinda slow becauswe it runs entirely off the cd but it is useful to teach people about linux. and it comes with a ton of apps ready to use
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I think diving straight into Linux would be a semi-good idea. YOu will learn faster if it means that your computer is useless if you cant get it to work (http://smile.gif)
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I am typically not one to half-step. You know that saying, "Out of the frying pan, into the fire." Most often I skip the pan completely and just dive straight for the fire.
My angst revolves around, will I still be able to access the Internet through my current ISP? Will the data on my D: and E: drives be usable through Linux? Will my data get trashed? And, how long till I have my computer functional again?
As far as programs go I'm sure I'll find all the low cost/no cost apps that I can shake a stick at.
I have located a number of on-line dealers selling open scource CD's. Is there any flavor of Linux I should look for or avoid? Best I can figure the distribution CD's will cost as much as $20 with shipping and I'm up it the air as to which flavor would make less of a mess.
This upgrade will really stick me between two worlds. For my business I have a 100 mHz Pentium machine running Windows 3.1. I use maybe a dozen programs on it that run in DOS or Windows. I spent many hours building some custom forms and documents on that machine and they would take forever to tweek back into shape if I imported them to new programs. I know because I tried. So I just kept it like it was and I'm most happy with it. On that computer I can be word processing within thirty seconds of hitting the power switch. On this Win95 box I'm waiting on Windows for almost a minute and a half before I can even open a program.
I like my old DOS/Win3.1 machine, it does it's job well and never needs upgraded.
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quote:
My angst revolves around, will I still be able to access the Internet through my current ISP?
Yes, most Linux installers (Definately Mandrake & Red Hat) auto-detect your internet connection. If it needs anything, you will be asked for it during the install process.
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Will the data on my D: and E: drives be usable through Linux?
Yes, in every way, shape and form.
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Will my data get trashed?
No, not unless you reformat. Read every dialog box If it says "all data on hda1 will be erased" DO NOT click OK if you want to keep your data (Assuming Windows is already installed, hda1 will be your Windows partition). If you want really specific info, ask one of the Bobs. I'm not gteat when it comes to drives.
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And, how long till I have my computer functional again?
The installation process takes about 20 mins.
Oh yeah. Stay away from Red Hat. It's great, but not for people who are new to Linux. You need to know terminal command to effectively use that OS.
-Dustin
[ July 16, 2002: Message edited by: Dustin ]
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better yet, go and buy a 50 dollar book, like the redhat 7.0 bible. its great. or move next to a solarise admin, that really helped my journay to unix./*i really like bsd*/
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what i mean about the solarise admin, is find people who now what they doing, like a few people on this board, most notable voidmain. its easyeir that way
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o and for wordprocessing, on the linux or win9x system, i would recommend OpenOffice.org's solultion
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A couple questions.
If given a choice between Mandrake or Red Hat, which would you choose?
What's the story with Debian GNU/Linux "Potato"?
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quote:
Originally posted by Saddle Magic:
If given a choice between Mandrake or Red Hat, which would you choose?
I would choose Mandrake. It's much easier to use and configure if you don't know command-line commands.
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Your machine sounds almost exactly like the first one I got Linux running on; I had more RAM, but I only had 2 HD's. My reccomendation would be a dual- (multi-) boot system. No offence, but if you jump into Linux, you'll be lost. It isn't Windows, and it takes time to learn, give yourself some time to get your feet under you before you take the big plunge. Having a secong OS on your box can save your butt when you make that inevitable mistake and Linux saya "Thats it!! I'm outta here!!" It happened to me a LOT when I started, but I'm running Debian Woody now and I'm comfortable with it.
As far as how to get Linux, you CAN D/L most distros off the internet, but it can take a LONG time. Check out e-bay; there's a fairly good selection of distros available, and you can usually find a fairly recent version of your chosen distro in a 3-CD boxed set for less than $20.00.
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Thank you, I have looked on eBay and checked around some of the various Internet sites selling different distros. By and large $15 should cover most any flavor, including the shipping cost. I am using dial-up Internet access, downloading would take forever.
I still want to read a bit more first but, with any luck by the time August rolls around one way or another some flavor of Linux will be running on my machine.
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quote:
Originally posted by Saddle Magic:
Thank you, I have looked on eBay and checked around some of the various Internet sites selling different distros. By and large $15 should cover most any flavor, including the shipping cost. I am using dial-up Internet access, downloading would take forever.
I still want to read a bit more first but, with any luck by the time August rolls around one way or another some flavor of Linux will be running on my machine.
VERY cool! It'll go a lot faster than you imagine, you'll be as confused as I am in no time flat! >JOKE<
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1. Read the DOS/Windows-To-Linux-HOWTO
2. Have a little patience
3. Do NOT listen to XP Poser #299329936969 and take ANY of his advice. He will discourage you and is a mindless follower of the Windows propaganda machine. I have reason to beleive, by just watching him, that perhaps he is a Microsoft employee trying to discredit people, though like all other M$ tactics it is misgiuded and doesn't do shit.
4. When in doubt, read the man pages...or a HOWTO
[ July 21, 2002: Message edited by: AlexMax ]
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quote:
Originally posted by AlexMax:
1. Read the DOS/Windows-To-Linux-HOWTO
2. Have a little patience
3. Do NOT listen to XP Poser #299329936969 and take ANY of his advice. He will discourage you and is a mindless follower of the Windows propaganda machine. I have reason to beleive, by just watching him, that perhaps he is a Microsoft employee trying to discredit people, though like all other M$ tactics it is misgiuded and doesn't do shit.
4. When in doubt, read the man pages...or a HOWTO
[ July 21, 2002: Message edited by: AlexMax ]
What ever distro you eventually decide to use will have an absolute TON of information available; they're gonna help you use THEIR distro, and that's a GOOD thing (sorry Martha; BTW: when you get to the big house, DON'T bend over!)Where was I? oh, yeah; most distros have more documentation than you'll ever need, many have the ability to help you set up devices, but one thing you want to MAKE SURE you do before you attempt to install Linux; KNOW AS MUCH AS YOU CAN ABOUT YOUR HARDWARE; LINUX ASKS QUESTIONS!!!
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quote:
Originally posted by Saddle Magic:
A couple questions.
What's the story with Debian GNU/Linux "Potato"?
I have run Debian since "slink"; "potato" was, until this past Friday the stable release of Debian. Pure Debian is a handful to install as a first distro, but if you decide to choose it, and make it through the install, it is probably the most reliable distro available, plus its package manager (or updater, if you will) which is called 'apt" is the best of all Current package managers.
Because of a personal conflict, I hesitate to recommend Libranet 2.0, however, since you're a newbie, and it IS a personal matter, I'll suggest it to you, because it's the best way for someone to get an introduction to Debian. Libranet is based on Debian, with a few Libranet apps thrown in. It's fairly easy to install, and configuring devices is a snap thanks to the adminmenu feature; Id suggest you go to their website and look it over. http://www.libranet.com (http://www.libranet.com)
It's a 2 CD set, and it costs $35.00 US
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make sure your ISP works with linux. this in sot so much in hardware as it is in software. also, your modem may be a winmodem, in which case mandrake (i reccommend mandrake) may not be able to drive it because M$ owns some of those things.
stick around the forum! we need smart people!
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lwinwithux asks questions, well maybe for some hardware, but ever since i started using linux, i havnt had to bother with stupid irq conflicts, it understands that fact that if my video card is on irq 10, DON'T PUT ANYTHING ELSE THERE.well, have fun, and read a book, i would recommend the books on redhat like the redhat bibles and sorry if somepart of this post is messed up a bit, im useing links/ChaosNETOS/*its a linux distro, but i want it it id itself as ChaosNETOS, and i changed the name again*/
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Hey SM,
How are you today ? Like you, i'm in dial-up hell, so don't expect a lot of quick answers from me.
I'm fairly new to linux, but already addicted to it and still learning.
The first distro i got was slackware - i know, bad choice, but i was 100% newbie :D
I would consider myself as a quick learner, i didn't have a lot of trouble at all installing slackware. It was a distro from '96, so i really couldn't do stuff with it.
But now i've got mandrake 8.1, and it's great, the installer is very powerful. It will detect any internet connections/lan cards and connecting to the 'net is a piece of cake. I already helped two friends of mine upgrading from winblows to linux, and got their adsl running like a charm.
Be sure to check out your local library for linux-for-newbies books. Also, when in linux, just go looking for commands you never heard of before !
I once simply tried 'mo' for fun, and bash added it on to the word 'mount' !
I thought: Hey what's this ?
So i said:
# mount --help
That's just one example about my linux learning process. Nowadays, if you just say 'f*** it !!', throw away all windoze and start with linux from an empty hdd, you never ever want to get back to windows. Believe me, i got a friend of mine who simply let me erase his two hdd's and put a running mandrake system on it.
About the modems, i once read a 'hacker tutorial' from Carolyn Meinel that said 'Linux works best with software that isn't Brand X'.
My point is, get hardware with names you've heard of before. (Mostly the expensive ones :D )
I got a winmodem from lucent, and it works fine under linux ! It was once of the few supported, but now it works !
So my advice is just to dive into linux, and see what comes ! Linux is full of stuff, you can instantly start 'netting or typing or whatever !
Welcome !
[ July 22, 2002: Message edited by: -=f00bar=- ]
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And if you're not sure about your modem, check it out @ linmodems.org !!
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Thanks much, I'm cheating by asking all the questions here. My plan is to install Linux and have it work, get my apps working or aquire some new ones if what I have doesn't lend itself to Linux.
I really don't want to spend hours/days/weeks making this work or work right. I have done that in the past and I know I'll spend some time tweeking and adjusting, as long as I'm not spending measurable time just trying to make it function. Or picking up a flavor that goes over real sour so I have to get another one right away. Looking at the thousands of dollars I've spent on software over the years, most of it never worked or never worked right. This time I want to do it smarter.
For some reason, I don't know why but, Debian intrigues me. If I can pick up a copy of Debian 2.2r7 (maybe 2.2r6) for cheap that will be the ticket. If not I'm leaning towards Mandrake 8.2. In any case I will play it safe and set up a dual boot to start with. Once I learn the ropes I'll probably blow up my C: drive, reformat it and do a clean install of whatever flavor Linux I end up with.
This week! I'll be ordering something this week. Either buy it off eBay or order from some place or another. I've got this $20 bill burning a hole in my pocket and M$ burning a hole in my head.
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i will ship you burned cds of whatever you want if you pay shipping.
also i have modems that work in linux you can have for free if you pay to ship
asking questions is not cheating. having someone do it for you is. i congradulate you on having a human brain that works! you can see though the blinders! welcome to the dark side!
if you absolutely have to know something right away search it up on http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ (http://www.linuxnewbie.org/) forums,
stats:
Members: 33,314, Threads: 56,211, Posts: 292,050
it IS there i PROMISE
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here is a list of a lot of Linux Distributions. I think there is about 283.
http://old.lwn.net/Distributions/ (http://old.lwn.net/Distributions/)
These (http://old.lwn.net/Distributions/index.php3#nontech) are the very user friendly versions.
[ July 22, 2002: Message edited by: Master of Reality / Bob ]
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id love to bootstrap ChoasNETOS with immunix's compiler, that would be 1337 to say the least
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OK, I am in too. I have convinced upper management to at least let me evaluate deploying Linux corporate wide. After explaining the significance of July 31st and a price comparison well, the choice is clear. The strategy will not be to replace Window$ in one fell swoop but to implement new PCs and upgrades with Linux. There was much concern about Office documents (Excel etc) compatability with Linux based applications. Doesn't seem to be a problem from what I have gathered so far. It also looks like I can get more mileage out of older PCs because Linux is leaner so we don't have to buy new hardware to run the next version of Window$. Looking forward to it.
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With a download manager to resume downloads I downloaded Mandrakes CD1 on my 56k (don't laugh), so it's possible. It did take me about a week though of dl'ing nights.
But even a student as cheap as me gave in to a copy of the mandrake linux 8 cd powerpack sitting on CEX's shelves for a mere 25 quid.
Anyone looking for linux should definatly check around because most stores don't really seem to know how they should be priced (http://smile.gif) .
Okay i know linux is free, but when you buy the box, as well as supporting them you get free stickers!!! and manuels and stuff. You could have a "powered by linux" sticker on the front!
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Hey Hibbeboy, nice to see business taking this seriously, good going, spread the word.
One thing you really need to watch out for. Lots of people use the bloat of a certain monster OS (why beat aroung the bush I mean M$ and so I'll say it), to justify getting themselves newer systems, people can be pathetic about having good systems at work, and they are likly to get a bit miffed when they see a PII suddenly appear and not the latest P4, 1G Memory, etc., despite the fact they don't need it.
Get your answers in early (pointless expenditure is not good for the company, and therefore it's disloyal to want huge PC's for word processing). This is more stable system, the time saved in reboots will feedback as time spent actually working. The software we use is open-source, therefore if the vendor stops support or goes out of business, we can employ any good software engineer to maintain and provide support, as we will know exactly what's going on with the program. We no longer need to spend a fortune auditing licenses. Yes you can take a copy for home use, feel free to learn it yourself, it will benefit the company directly, etc. etc.
There is less argument when good solid ideas are presented as well thought out reasons, leave your dissenters with a way out, so that they can feel they were offering constructive critisim, saving face essentially.
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Well I have ASDL, so mandrake d/l's like ZOOM! :D
Ok, my lazy @$$ finally got much of my backups burned. MUCH is the keyword. Damn im tired. ;)
So I suppose Linux(mandrake at least) is ultra easy to install(for non-retards), it just feels scary for those who have never done it before(me).
So your POSITIVE that with my Linux cd in the drive, it WILL boot off of it? Until I showed my interest in Linux in a thread here, I had never heard of this rad concept. How do I know my BIOS won't say "sorry, you haven't loaded your config.ghey drivers, no freedom boot for you". (http://smile.gif)
Oh and do the people here mind if you post all sorts of dumb newbie questions to the Linux board once you have it set up? :cool:
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umm if your computer is reasonably new, then it can boot off the cd-rom. you might have to set it to do that in the bios, i'll tell ya how 2 do it if the boot doesn't work when you try it first.
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there are boot floppy images for DL as well that will do if from your cd, or even your HD if you want. i like to decorate the cds with likenesses of gates crucified. it will most likely boot from the disc and as long as you have partition space it is click, click, click. know about your hardware. explore options.