Stop Microsoft
All Things Microsoft => Microsoft Software => Topic started by: Githyanki on 8 March 2003, 14:38
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So I gotta use windows some time for various reasons, games mostly, plus I gotta a lot of old files in .doc and even DOS formats.
Anyway here's my thoughts on the various WinOS's:
Win 3.1: Anyone remember this POS?
Win 95: Suxors, but still usable.
Win 98: Better than 95, the one I use.
Win ME: Wtf is it? I dunno.
Win 2000: Still no clue.
Win XP: Okay I will never use this one. Too many privacy security violations. Too many broken paradigms. It's ridiculous that you don't own the software, you "license" it. It's ridiculous that you can only put it on one machine. It's ridiculous you can only change your hardware around so many times and it gets obsolete on you. You know damn well that when Microsoft settled with the Dept. of Justice that they built in backdoors for FBI, local police, whoever wants to waltz in and cruise your HD.
I'm not having it. I hate spyware, whether it's from Xupiter, MS, or the DoJ. I'm not having it. I run a firewall and block communication with MS.com. I run spybot every couple days and have to run a special background proggy to prevent the BS active x crap from being used to hijack my browser and install spyware. Spyware is a worst problem than viruses, I don't get viruses, and when I do I simply dont open the attachments, and I never download warez. And I sure as hell dont use broken Outlook Express, the viruses playground. Spam is less a problem too if youre using free webmails as your main ID and never publish the mailto:link anywhere.
Anyway thats how I've learned to live with Windows, but Ive been using PCs since the DOS days. I pity the vast majority of Win-users who barely know their way around the machine.
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quote:
I'm not having it. I hate spyware, whether it's from Xupiter, MS, or the DoJ. I'm not having it. I run a firewall and block communication with MS.com. I run spybot every couple days and have to run a special background proggy to prevent the BS active x crap from being used to hijack my browser and install spyware. Spyware is a worst problem than viruses, I don't get viruses, and when I do I simply dont open the attachments, and I never download warez. And I sure as hell dont use broken Outlook Express, the viruses playground. Spam is less a problem too if youre using free webmails as your main ID and never publish the mailto:link anywhere.
you know what... i do not have to deal with any of that. i use jaguar & redhat8. no problem. ever. i understand that windows sucks, so i dont use it (well, i do at work, but i fucking have to and it drives me insane). as for games.. buy a system that was designed around gaming, like a game cube or playstation. i certainly do not see the logic in spending 2500 on a computer to play games, especially when i could take that money to Best Buy (dirty dirty place) and buy a system, some controllers, and a shit-load of games. plus have some money for some beers and maybe even a new tv to play it on. since it seems like you hate windows. why not just ditch it altogether?? there really is no reason to use it.
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quote:
Originally posted by Githyanki:
It's ridiculous that you can only put it on one machine.
Um... isn't that always the case with purchased software?
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"Um... isn't that always the case with purchased software?"
No more than one machine at the same time, right. But I hang on to software for years, and as I replace and upgrade old systems, I reinstall. Let's face it, PhotoShop from four years ago is as good as PhotoShop bought this year, for all but the most demanding professionals. Same with Word, etc. I bought it, I have a right to make a backup, and a right to move it from machine to machine. I am not paying a subscription fee or letting it talk to MS.com all day long with copies of my documents.
As far as games go, games on a console system are in no way the same as PC games. As a hardcore gamer who's been in the business for nearly a decade, take my word on that. On a PC I can play real-time strategy games and the best first-person shooters, with tons of mods and different team and free-for-all gams. I can play massively multiplayer roleplaying games, and use a keyboard to talk to people: typing to people in Phantasy Star Online with a Nintendo controller is absurd.
And I didn't pay $2500 for my PC, I paid $1200 for it three years ago, and I can upgrade super cheap today, hardware prices are as low as I've ever seen them. Nothing wrong with a Mac/Cube duo or a PS2/Linux box if that's what you prefer, I just happen to prefer PC games to console ones.
Anyway there are tons of niche strategy and wargames, offbeat RPGs, that you simply don't get on a console. Plus PC games are cheaper, you customize them, mod them, etc. Put it this way: PC games are to console games what Linux is to Windows (not the best analogy, and obviously PC games are not open source, but it's a good analogy in terms of their customizability and the freedom afford the gamer).
So I simply prefer the PC gaming experience, though I have a console too, for sports games and fighting games. Sure, consoles are coming around to PC genres (notice the new online console rpgs and a great FPS like Halo), but it's not always the same thing. There's no way you could do something like Neverwinter Nights -- where one player acts as gamemaster and makes scenarios for the other custom-made characters played by people around the country -- on a console today.
However, if Microsoft going forward decides to kill the PC gaming market -- trying to force everyone to their Xbox 2, which as I understand it will have all the PC gaming capabilities of a current PC (HD, DSL, 3D chip, headset, keyboard, mouse) -- then that's really going to kill PC gaming.
Blizzard, EA, etc. make millions each year on The Sims, Warcraft 3, etc., and Microsoft doesn't get one cent. And while MS does okay in PC gaming, they don't own the market, because it's a hit-driven creative business, and they haven't leveraged their monopoly as effectively. But kill the PC gaming market and force all the big PC publishers to shift development to Xbox and it's win-win. For them.
It's not like PC game programmers don't want to support Linux (a programmer-run company like id Software for example does), but most game publishers are big, publicly-traded companies that have other priorities. But if Linux grows the install base and Palladium and the next MS destroy the PC gaming industry, you could see the smaller/shareware developers moving their niche market software to Linux. I would hope this is the case.
Sorry, long post : )
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quote:
Originally posted by Fett101:
Um... isn't that always the case with purchased software?
no, some companies let you put them on multiple computers. zuggsoft's zmud is one example. but for the most part, yeah... only 1 computer.
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quote:
Win 2000: Still no clue.
ok, even though i don't like windows/M$, when i'm on my laptop i have to use windows (my winmodem doesn't work under linux, go figure), and windows 2000 is a respectable os imo. it still has many problems, i don't like it for many reasons, but when you get down to it, win2k rarely fails me. don't get my wrong, as soon as i figure out how to use my modem in linux i'm ditching win2k, but win2k is the best os ms has ever made. it's a shame (actually a good thing, to help the spread of linux) that they fucked up what could have become a good line of windows (hmm...good and windows doesn't fit into a sentence well) with the dissapointing release of winxp
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When M$ made Win98SE, they shot themselfs in the foot. When they made Win2000, they shot the other foot. But not too many people notice.
Win98 - best for gamers
Win2K - best overall (for windows)
I dont see myself using Linux any time soon, but i wouldn't mide getting a cheap second computer to try it out on. (once I get the software)
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githyank, before i start, i want you to know that i agree entirely with what you say about freedom and censorship. no arguments from me there but for gods' sake! look at this:
quote:
Originally posted by Githyanki:
So I gotta use windows some time for various reasons, games mostly, plus I gotta a lot of old files in .doc and even DOS formats.
you fucking moron!!!! no offence intended. what the fuck? do you SERIOUSLY think you need windows for that shit? i run WINDOWS PROGRAMS in linux! i run dos programs effortlessly and can open doc files in several wordprocessors with ease (not to mention wordperfect, staroffice, lotus and many other file formats too) you need windows to open doc files? how fucking weak! get a life.
that is all.
[ March 13, 2003: Message edited by: Calum: Member # 81 ]
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I've been trying out KWord on KDE. I installed KDE version 3.1 on my RH8 system using apt sources from the KDE-on-redhat project (http://kde-redhat.sourceforge.net/)
It opens most .doc files very easily. It's also extremely fast, I like it much better than OpenOffice!
I also just got finished playing a game of Warcraft 3 - on Linux. All in all, I find wine only useful for games. There are *very* few Windoze apps I have any desire to run.
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me neither. in fact i only *actually* use wine to run first class client (a 'conferencing' program required by my university) but it *can* be used for a lot of other stuff.
and openoffice is great if it would install the way i want it to! i am actually thinking of trying out SOT office, a commercial (but free and open source) office suite seemingly based on the star office sources, and available as a handy rpm.
my KDE3.0 comes with a version of kword that doesn't open word files *at all* in fact i had always thought of kword as kind of crippled. it kind of sucks at showing the 'real' layout of rtf files too, which takes the point out of being a wysiwyg editor in my opinion.
i could ramble on but i think i said all i am capable of saying here (http://www.openopen.org/software/office/word-processors.html). (btw, don't expect any of the links on that page to be any use, that site is still under *heavy* construction)
edit: linux user, can you actually write a better review of KWord than i have done on that page? in light of your comments, my review seems out of date. ideally, you could come along to www.openopen.cjb.net (http://www.openopen.cjb.net) and post your comments, on the board there but other than that, just send a PM to zooloo on this board please, if you do update my kword review, since he is the owner of that site. thankyou! :D
[ March 14, 2003: Message edited by: Calum: Member # 81 ]
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I can think of ANY windows-only app that I have to run. I cant think of any that I would even WANT to run. Soon I'll be in Mac heaven when I finally get enough cash (ha ha!)
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quote:
Originally posted by Siplus: linux advocate:
...win2k rarely fails me. don't get my wrong, as soon as i figure out how to use my modem in linux i'm ditching win2k, but win2k is the best os ms has ever made...
Which is all well and good as long as you don't use it for a website.
http://www.theregister.com/content/55/29795.html (http://www.theregister.com/content/55/29795.html)
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I curreently have 6 computers up and running. One of them does run Windows (Win98). Win98 is good for some of the the games that I play and it gives me something to do when I'm bored. I can run ad-aware to get rid of some of the spyware (non-M$), I can run scandisk and defrag and sfc and regclean and ezclean and all the other third-party and M$ programs you need to keep Windows working. Hell, Linux is boring. It just works. Oh, download errata and install updates, but it never seems to break. It just does what I want and when I want it to.
Now that my daughters and wife are taking to Linux and not using the Win98 box, waat will I do with my evenings? Nooo registries to hoe out, no spyware to remove, no redundant files to delete...life will be boring. My computers will just do what I tell them to and they won't bog down or be infected with viruses, they will just plain work and do what they're supposed to do.
Oh, well I guess I'll just have to get used to the idea that my computers will just wwork and that no "guru" is required to keep them running.
Jim
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Obviously none of the new operating systems microsoft comes out with is going to be remotely secure and nothing you would want the reputation of an entire company to rely on.
Thats why companies like gateway still use windows NT 4 to run their websites and why MSN and hotmail are still running on Win2K
Well ... the last time i checked thats what they were running.
So if nothing new from microsoft has tons of bugs then imagine something still in its beta version .....
www.netcraft.com (http://www.netcraft.com)
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All WinMe is is a bloated up version of win98, it offers consumers almost nothing over win98. Win2000 is definitely the best M$ OS. WinXP is jut a version of win2000 that has a fischerPrice GUI, and more user-controlling and monitoring mechanisms than there are fish in the sea. M$ wants that kind of control over its customers, so it cut support from win2000, and made XP less expensive than it. everyone says that win98 is the best for gamers, but win2k runs all but a few win98 games. Anyhow, Linux is better than windows. It has enough games, *good ones*, to keep anyone occupied. Its free stable, and gives you full control. So if you got to play your PC games or have a winmodem, use win2K, other than that, use somthing better.
Extra Point #1: if you have a winmodem (like me) just get DSL (liek me), it rox and is easier to set up in Linux than it is in windows.
Extra Point #2: Or just get a mac.
(http://tongue.gif) V (http://tongue.gif)
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quote:
Extra Point #1: if you have a winmodem (like me) just get DSL (liek me), it rox and is easier to set up in Linux than it is in windows.
that's EXACTLY what i'm going to do over the summer, and i can't wait :-D
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Ok I had this old argument before, but my memory sucks so... (http://smile.gif)
This is what I think. XP is more stable on average compared to W9X. Sometimes XP has a violent reaction to some people's systems, when W9X may or may not have the same violent reaction.
IF you pirate XP you can totally get around the bad license stuff(but you could very well be cut off from service packs, although it might be possible to download them from a non-MS source). As for the moral implications of this, I can sort of respect where some of the people here are coming from, but a person is alot more justified in pirating something like XP than he would be with W98 or W2K. XP screws the HONEST customer over, W98/W2K do not(at least license wise).
And regardless of whether it helps MS or not, consider this. If it helps MS, it has only helped them in the past. MS has been cracking down on pirates right? If pirating helped them any longer, they would allow it to continue.
Nonetheless, only pirate wind0ze out of personal thriftyness, it won't win the war(even if it does do slight damage to MS like I hinted at above), people must make the descision to embrace Linux if they truly want to make a difference.
Any arguments against XP should not just focus on the licensing, they should focus on issues that affect EVERYONE who uses XP. DRM and MS spying on you are good reasons indeed. But I don't understand DRM, I know about Palladium and TCPA, but how the hell does DRM(outside of TCPA and Palladium) work?
Besides MS privacy, and DRM, any other anti-XP reasons?
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Visit www.linmodems.org (http://www.linmodems.org) - you can compile winmodem support into any 2.0 or higher kernel
Better yet, if your obsessed with MS Office, I forget the name of the program, but there is one that allows you to run MS Office, Windows MEdia Player, Internet Explorer, etc NATIVELY under linux with a 2.0+ kernel
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Hi,
Are you all forgeting about windows nt 4.0
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quote:
Originally posted by The Angel Of Death:
Visit www.linmodems.org (http://www.linmodems.org) - you can compile winmodem support into any 2.0 or higher kernel
Better yet, if your obsessed with MS Office, I forget the name of the program, but there is one that allows you to run MS Office, Windows MEdia Player, Internet Explorer, etc NATIVELY under linux with a 2.0+ kernel
Codeweavers Crossover Office.
The latest version can run Adobe Photoshop now, too.
I have a copy myself, and it's probably the best solution out there for running Windows programs(except for games or anything else that requires a heavy use of Direct X).
http://www.codeweavers.com (http://www.codeweavers.com)
Of course, this costs money, so there's also just the stand-alone wine:
http://www.winehq.com (http://www.winehq.com)