Stop Microsoft
All Things Microsoft => Microsoft Software => Topic started by: HibbeeBoy on 2 May 2003, 02:18
-
I know I should know better to look for help on a windows problem but I am clutching at straws.
I have to configure Exploder on a Win 98 Toshiba laptop. When I invoke the IE "application" it launches a connection wizard to sign up for ISP service for a company no longer in business. I cannot get Exploder to function. It is forcing me to run this dopey sign up for ISP service connection. Of course, there is no other browser on the laptop that I can use. I could put Linux on it but I don't have the patience or time to brief the user on Linux. Any suggestions ? Bound to be a Register problem right ?
-
You mean IE is opening a specific signup web page when you start it? Try deleting any pages in the Internet Explorer\signup directory. Then download mozilla.
-
quote:
Originally posted by flap:
You mean IE is opening a specific signup web page when you start it? Try deleting any pages in the Internet Explorer\signup directory. Then download mozilla.
I have "Blank" as the home page. When Exploder is invoked, I get Exploder running with the blank. Great, no problesm right ? Type in www.Yahoo.com, (http://www.Yahoo.com,) press GO and Exploder terminates and then a "sign up for Ameritech" connection wizard pops up. I don't need that but I can't get past it. I have an ISP dial up account configured, I've set that as the default but Exploder ignores all of it.
-
Do you have anything in the signup directory?
-
quote:
Originally posted by flap:
Do you have anything in the signup directory?
There's a sign up directory ?!!! :eek: :confused: Where would I look ?
-
something like Program Files\Internet Explorer\signup
-
quote:
Originally posted by flap:
something like Program Files\Internet Explorer\signup
yes, that seems to be the place where this shit is coming from. What do I do, delete it ? Rename it ?
-
Just rename the directory. I doubt it's used for anything but I don't have a clue to be honest.
-
Tried that, still fucked. Honestly, what a piece of shit. Imagine creating an application that goes to a dead end with no way out. It's dumber than the dumbest guy from dumbland. I can't even use Lookout Express becuase it kicks off the stupid sign up shit too. ANyway, cheers for the help. I tried the Windows BBS and I have yet to get any solution to about 6 problems I have posted there. So, the fuckmicrosoft guys are more help than the Windows BBS. Go figure !
-
What if you delete the signup directory?
Try invoking the connection dialog by going through control panel/dialup networking, then use internet explorer.
-
Use Mozilla - anyone who can use IE can use Mozilla. (http://smile.gif)
www.mozilla.org (http://www.mozilla.org)
Be extra nice and block unwanted pop-ups.
zooloo
-
Well I did manage it somehow. I went through the standard windows conenction wizard and that seems to have solved the problem. It's still a piece crap. How do they (M$) get away with it ? !! Have they no shame ? :mad:
Thanks for your help though. ;)
-
quote:
Originally posted by HibbeeBoy:
It's still a piece crap. How do they (M$) get away with it ? !! Have they no shame ? :mad:
Because of people like you, that's how they get away with it.
zooloo
-
quote:
Originally posted by zoolooo:
Because of people like you, that's how they get away with it.
zooloo
A rather simplistic response :D
I would love to have installed SuSe Linux on the guys laptop but at such short notice it just would not have been feasible. I push for Linux at every turn. I will not deploy a an M$ product if I can help it but sometimes, circumstances force the issue.
-
bollocks. there's a big difference between installing SuSE and installing mozilla.
there is NO NEED AT ALL for ANYBODY to use internet exploder when mozilla is FREELY available, and i for one am sorry to hear that you got internet exploder to work, nothing personal but you should have put the effort into installing mozilla instead.
-
yeah. in the last year, every machine i have built for someone, or reinstalled windows on, i made sure that mozilla was the default browser. they couldn't be happier (well, i guess i could have just put a linux distro on the machines...).
-
quote:
Originally posted by Calum: crusader for peace & freedom:
bollocks. there's a big difference between installing SuSE and installing mozilla.
there is NO NEED AT ALL for ANYBODY to use internet exploder when mozilla is FREELY available, and i for one am sorry to hear that you got internet exploder to work, nothing personal but you should have put the effort into installing mozilla instead.
You don't understand the user base I am dealing with here. If you move the coffee pot from its usual position, confusion reigns supreme. Long term, I will eradicate Window$ from this organisation. In fact, I would eradicate PCs in general for thin client if I had my way and a budget but that's another topic. This is a clapped out bollox laptop with about 120M of hard drive left. I would rather not fight this particular battle at this time. I agree, I could load Mozzila and give the user the choice of Exploder or Mozilla, which I may still do now that I have been suitably chastised ! ;) In any event, given the choice, this user will use Exploder.
-
Everyone can use Mozilla! So why not just try to convince those who work for you about its benefits?
Perhaps this article can help! (http://www.xulplanet.com/ndeakin/arts/reasons.html)
-
The only problem people have with Mozilla is realising that Internet Explorer is a browser.
Once you explain that you can access "all of the internet" with Mozilla they are happy.
Stop unwanted pop-ups makes tehm jump for joy and they forget about IE.
The argument about the user being unable to use Mozilla really shows that you have spent absolutely no time or effort in considering alternatives to what you consider crap software.
You decided they couldn't do it? So you didn't bother? It ain't them it's YOU.
MS will only prevail if people have your attitude "I don't like it but I haven't the ken to do anything else". Maybe you haven't.
zooloo
-
Yeah, I used to think IE was OK, but Mozilla and Safari really put it to shame these days. IE is trash!
-
"Programming today is a race between software engineers
striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs
and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better
idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."
-- Rich Cook
-
quote:
Originally posted by zoolooo:
The only problem people have with Mozilla is realising that Internet Explorer is a browser.
Once you explain that you can access "all of the internet" with Mozilla they are happy.
Stop unwanted pop-ups makes tehm jump for joy and they forget about IE.
The argument about the user being unable to use Mozilla really shows that you have spent absolutely no time or effort in considering alternatives to what you consider crap software.
You decided they couldn't do it? So you didn't bother? It ain't them it's YOU.
MS will only prevail if people have your attitude "I don't like it but I haven't the ken to do anything else". Maybe you haven't.
zooloo
Bullshit. I can not mandate to a user to use a particular browser !! I could install Mozilla on every PC, inform the user base that it's available and recommend they use Mozilla, that's it.I can't force them to use another browser because I can't uninstall Exploder but I could give them the choice. But, if the user is happy with Exploder, they will probably not use another browser.
Users don't see a problem with exploder so why should they change ? Going round a corporation with the "Microsoft bad, everything else good" mantra just makes you look like an asshole.
Change takes time, you don't just say to a VP of finance, "You can't use Exploder anymore, use this."
Don't think I haven't tried, I don't know how you came to that conclusion that I don't try. I started to use Mozilla myself and I have experienced a problem in Mozilla that I don't get with Exploder or Konquerer. namely, when cursor is over an active field a drop list is supposed to make itself visible. In Mozilla it doesn't, in other browsers it does. I don't know about Netscape though.
-
quote:
Originally posted by HibbeeBoy:
But, if the user is happy with Exploder, they will probably not use another browser.
Users don't see a problem with exploder so why should they change ?
But IE wasn't working right?
That's what you came here with isn't it?
You had a problem with IE but you don't the sensible thing and give them a decent browser.
So long as people like you fix MS bugware they will prevail.
YOU are the problem.
zooloo
-
quote:
Originally posted by zoolooo:
But IE wasn't working right?
That's what you came here with isn't it?
You had a problem with IE but you don't the sensible thing and give them a decent browser.
So long as people like you fix MS bugware they will prevail.
YOU are the problem.
zooloo
I totally agree! Oh and since you mentioned a problem you had with Mozilla HibeeBoy, go to this page (http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/menus/demo.html), and tell me that you can view it fine with IE. Oh, and that's simple CSS Level 2 we're talking about. No Java script or anything more involved.
Oh and since we're at it, visit this page (http://www.mozilla.org/start/1.0/demos.html), for some examples of what Mozilla can do. (http://tongue.gif)
-
fet101
quote:
"Programming today is a race between software engineers
striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs
and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better
idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."
-- Rich Cook
Too Funny :D
-
quote:
Originally posted by zoolooo:
But IE wasn't working right?
That's what you came here with isn't it?
You had a problem with IE but you don't the sensible thing and give them a decent browser.
So long as people like you fix MS bugware they will prevail.
YOU are the problem.
zooloo
Sure, so how do I download Mozilla without a functioning browser in the first place ?
-
quote:
Originally posted by Panos:
I totally agree! Oh and since you mentioned a problem you had with Mozilla HibeeBoy, go to this page (http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/menus/demo.html), and tell me that you can view it fine with IE. Oh, and that's simple CSS Level 2 we're talking about. No Java script or anything more involved.
Oh and since we're at it, visit this page (http://www.mozilla.org/start/1.0/demos.html), for some examples of what Mozilla can do. (http://tongue.gif)
I don't understand ? I explained something Mozilla didn't do but somehow it makes up for it by doing something else ?
I'm not here to defend one browser over another. You scream choice but only if the choice is in line with your way of thinking. Hey, I think Mozilla is fine for what I do (still no spellcheck in mail I see) and that is now what I have installed and use at work in a window$ environment. At home I use Linux because I am anti M$ for many reasons.
-
quote:
Originally posted by HibbeeBoy:
Sure, so how do I download Mozilla without a functioning browser in the first place ?
So where you work there is only one PC with a browser?
If you were at all bothered you would have USED ANOTHER PC to download the browser.
You can put a browser on a PC that didn't download it you know.
Perhaps where you work should employ somebody with the rudiments of IT under their belt.
YOU are still the problem.
zooloo
-
quote:
Originally posted by zoolooo:
So where you work there is only one PC with a browser?
If you were at all bothered you would have USED ANOTHER PC to download the browser.
You can put a browser on a PC that didn't download it you know.
Perhaps where you work should employ somebody with the rudiments of IT under their belt.
YOU are still the problem.
zooloo
Whatever. I just didn't have time for fucking about at that time.
I have been in IT for quite sometime so don't tell me what my job entails. My employers already do that. My employers don't give a toss about the politics of M$ vs Linux. It so happens, I do give a toss. Changing the users browser from Exploder to Mozilla doesn't really achieve anything in the scheme of eradicating M$. All it does is put Mozilla on a Window$ machine where 9 times out of 10, the fuckwit user will continue to use Exploder becaue I can't remove Exploder from the operating system. Do you see, the bigger picture is eradicating Window$ from the desktop. My powers only stretch so far and my job entails a bit more than dictating the browser a user should use. Longer term, I would like to replace Window$ with Linux but that is a bit more involved than just installing Mozilla on a fucked up laptop for a user who probably will not even use the laptop while he is "on the road" anyway. This is why I came to this website, to pick up ideas and insight into Eradicating Microsoft. I think I may have come to the wrong place.
[ May 05, 2003: Message edited by: HibbeeBoy ]
-
I was trying to use the help feature in Mozzila browser, bolloxed the whole thing up. All Mozilla applications froze, e-mail, browser and help. Not only that, but it managed to bollox up Exploder too. Easy enough to do that I'm sure.
I'm not looking for excuses not to use an alternative browser but for fuck's sake, surely the help feature should work ?
-
quote:
Originally posted by HibbeeBoy:
Whatever. I just didn't have time for fucking about at that time.
[ May 05, 2003: Message edited by: HibbeeBoy ]
Time enough for Internet Explorer though?
YOU are the problem
zooloo
PS. Help thing... dunno. Mine works.
-
quote:
Originally posted by zoolooo:
Time enough for Internet Explorer though?
YOU are the problem
zooloo
PS. Help thing... dunno. Mine works.
Yes, I see you are going to focus on the Exploder issue rather than the bigger picture.
Thanks for all your useful input.
Now, fuck off.
-
Oooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhh get her!
Do climb back in your pram HibbeeBoy.
YOU are still the problem.
zooloo
[ May 05, 2003: Message edited by: zoolooo ]
-
[ May 05, 2003: Message edited by: zoolooo ]
-
quote:
Originally posted by zoolooo:
YOU are still the problem.
zooloo
[ May 05, 2003: Message edited by: zoolooo ]
I get the same response from you no matter what. You are nit picking a rather small component of the M$ Eradication strategy (if there is one) by harping on about the Mozilla vs Exploder issue. Come back to me when you have something of substance on the bigger picture. I was grateful for some pointers from other postings, yours included, about the benefits of Mozilla or alternatives to M$ Internet Exploder. You are unwilling (unable ?) to take things further, so again, thanks for the pointers. Now, fuck off again. (http://tongue.gif)
PS I am still persevering with Mozilla despite a couple of nuances i.e lack of a spellchecker in the mail application. The fact I am using Mozilla has done nothing to eradicate Window$ from the corporate desktop.
[ May 05, 2003: Message edited by: HibbeeBoy ]
-
quote:
Originally posted by HibbeeBoy:
How do they (M$) get away with it ? !! Have they no shame ? :mad:
I am addressing the wider point, as above.
Hence, YOU are the problem.
zooloo
There really is no need to swear at me.
-
quote:
Originally posted by HibbeeBoy:
I don't understand ? I explained something Mozilla didn't do but somehow it makes up for it by doing something else ?
I'm not here to defend one browser over another. You scream choice but only if the choice is in line with your way of thinking. Hey, I think Mozilla is fine for what I do (still no spellcheck in mail I see) and that is now what I have installed and use at work in a window$ environment. At home I use Linux because I am anti M$ for many reasons.
I see. So that spellchecker in mail is much more important to you than standards compliance. Ok then. If you want to use IE, use it. If I were in your shoes however, I'd go seek some help at the WindowsBBS instead of the MES forums. I'm really sorry but I've stopped using IE, years ago.
As for your claims that substituting IE in a corporate environment doesn't mean absolutely anything, you are wrong again. You, of all people because of your profession, should know that the reason people are not aware of the alternatives is the integration of IE in Windows. So, could you think of a better way to start talking to people about open source and free software solutions? I think not.
-
quote:
Originally posted by Panos:
go to this page (http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/menus/demo.html), and tell me that you can view it fine with IE. Oh, and that's simple CSS Level 2 we're talking about. No Java script or anything more involved.
the CSS menus work in Opera and Mozilla but not in Internet Explorer
btw why haven't you guys mentioned Opera? it's the fastest browser in the world ya know :D
-
quote:
Originally posted by zoolooo:
I am addressing the wider point, as above.
Hence, YOU are the problem.
zooloo
There really is no need to swear at me.
No, you are NOT addressing the wider point. You are so wrapped up on scoring political points on my mis management of the Exploder issue that you have nothing else to add or debate about eradicating Microsoft from the corporate desktop. This is why I give you the "Thanks, now fuck off" response. Maybe you don't have time to explore the issue, if you don't just stop repeating yourself and well, fuck off. :rolleyes:
According to you (unless I have picked you up wrong, please accept my apologies if this is the case), I have failed to grasp an opportunity to eradicate M$ from the corporate environment. No, what happened was I failed to download Mozilla onto a bolloxed up toshiba < 300mhz laptop for a user who wouldn't use Mozilla if his life depended on it.
What did come out of this was that I have taken a closer look at the Mozilla alternative and for me, find it a suitable replacement for Exploder. So, I will attempt to steer the users towards Mozilla for a browser. The mail application falls a bit short (so far) to the likes of Outlook 2002 but certainly beats Lookout Express (see, I am getting the hang of the lingo) EXCEPT there is no spell checker in the Mozila mail client.
Now, if your response is (again) going to be "YOU are the problem", then expect my usual response to that, otherwise, I will be happy to discuss how corporate IT can eradicate Microsoft from the desktop and how I address some of the shortfalls of the Mozilla e-mail client.
-
quote:
Originally posted by ShawnD1:
btw why haven't you guys mentioned Opera? it's the fastest browser in the world ya know :D
Opera is of course an alternative, and I have used it extensively in the past, however I prefer to use any open source or free software alternative instead, that's all. Opera is perfectly fine though. ;)
-
opera IS free though lol
-
quote:
Originally posted by ShawnD1:
opera IS free though lol
You must be new here..
We are talking about free as in freedom, not price. Can a normal citizen get the source code to Opera? Can we distribute Opera to other people freely?
And Opera is not the "fastest browser in the world." I think Safari/Konqueror have that title now. Anyway, Mozilla seems plenty fast to me, once it is loaded anyway.
[ May 05, 2003: Message edited by: Linux User #5225982375 ]
-
quote:
Originally posted by Panos:
I see. So that spellchecker in mail is much more important to you than standards compliance. Ok then. If you want to use IE, use it. If I were in your shoes however, I'd go seek some help at the WindowsBBS instead of the MES forums. I'm really sorry but I've stopped using IE, years ago.
As for your claims that substituting IE in a corporate environment doesn't mean absolutely anything, you are wrong again. You, of all people because of your profession, should know that the reason people are not aware of the alternatives is the integration of IE in Windows. So, could you think of a better way to start talking to people about open source and free software solutions? I think not.
Funnily enough, I got better responses here than from the Windows BBS. Didn't exactly address my problem but helped me get through a jam.
Now, the fact that there is no spell checker in the Mozilla e-mail application is a deficiency when you compare to the M$ Lookout applications which is fine for me as I am a reasonably good speller. For other users, this deficiency is a non starter. You can bleat all you want about standards compliance, my users don't give a toss about compliance, heck they wouldn't be able to spell the word, hence the need for a spell checker.
Do any of you people get it ? I AM ON YOUR SIDE.
:rolleyes:
Anyway, the browser issue is the least of my problems. Unless I can remove Exploder from Window$, there is a less than 1% chance the fuckwit user will not use Exploder. For fucks sake, some of these users are using AOL.
-
actually Opera is the fastest browser because it puts everything into memory. if you look at a website often, all the images are saved on the hard drive then loaded from the hard drive.... one of the problems with Opera is caused by that though, you sometimes have to manualy tell it to refresh the page. on my website, i'll edit something and it might not actually show up on the website unless i go to the address bar and hit enter again (while on the same page as in the address bar) or hit the refresh button.
-
quote:
Originally posted by HibbeeBoy:
Funnily enough, I got better responses here than from the Windows BBS. Didn't exactly address my problem but helped me get through a jam.
Now, the fact that there is no spell checker in the Mozilla e-mail application is a deficiency when you compare to the M$ Lookout applications which is fine for me as I am a reasonably good speller. For other users, this deficiency is a non starter. You can bleat all you want about standards compliance, my users don't give a toss about compliance, heck they wouldn't be able to spell the word, hence the need for a spell checker.
Do any of you people get it ? I AM ON YOUR SIDE.
:rolleyes:
Anyway, the browser issue is the least of my problems. Unless I can remove Exploder from Window$, there is a less than 1% chance the fuckwit user will not use Exploder. For fucks sake, some of these users are using AOL.
I know that we're on the same side here HibeeBoy. I still remember some of your older posts. :D
It's just that I can't help with IE, honest. I don't use it any more, even on my Win2k machine. Hell, now that I think of it I don't use that bloody Win2k partition either. :rolleyes:
As for your problem, I understand perfectly. I know that you're not a magician or anything. If you were you could propably swing you magic wand and switch everyone to Linux. The truth is much more painful however. I realize that it's a real pain in the ass to convince anyone to use anything other than IE, let alone windows. I insist though, that we have to talk to people every now and then about the benefits of open source and free software. ;)
-
quote:
Originally posted by ShawnD1:
if you look at a website often, all the images are saved on the hard drive then loaded from the hard drive....
Wow! What a novel idea! That could be used in all browsers. And they could call the feature... "cache", or something.
-
quote:
Originally posted by Panos:
I know that we're on the same side here HibeeBoy. I still remember some of your older posts. :D
It's just that I can't help with IE, honest. I don't use it any more, even on my Win2k machine. Hell, now that I think of it I don't use that bloody Win2k partition either. :rolleyes:
As for your problem, I understand perfectly. I know that you're not a magician or anything. If you were you could propably swing you magic wand and switch everyone to Linux. The truth is much more painful however. I realize that it's a real pain in the ass to convince anyone to use anything other than IE, let alone windows. I insist though, that we have to talk to people every now and then about the benefits of open source and free software. ;)
I agree with you, it needs to discussed. Sometimes on this board though, there is just a mentality to shout people down with no thought. I suspect that a lot posters on here just don't understand corporate culture. I don't know if anyone even understood what happened during the course of this thread. Look at the number of posts on this thread, one of the busiest threads for some time. Mainly because ZooLoo just wanted to shout me down rather than nurture debate and discussion. I cannot even think about directing my peers to this site under these conditions. I hate M$ as much as the next guy but I can't come in to work on a Monday morning and say, "Right folks, I've never liked Microsoft so I've ditched it for something else." It has to be part of an implentation plan and requires a change to infratructure. I'm pretty much sold on Linux, so the Mozilla issue doesn't solve my long term objectives of removing Microsoft from the picture, I just don't see a big return from beating the users over the head to use Mozilla when they will use Exploder come what may. In fact, I went to one of my "power" users with Mozilla and they pretty much nixed it out of hand.
It's a tough sell but it can be done and it will take time.
-
quote:
Originally posted by flap:
Wow! What a novel idea! That could be used in all browsers. And they could call the feature... "cache", or something.
it's one thing mozilla and IE don't have. in Mozilla it loads the images from the webserver every single time. i've never seen the images just appear all at once in an instant like they do in opera, they always load 1 at a time from the server.
-
Maybe you should email the mozilla dev team and suggest they implement cache?
-
quote:
Originally posted by HibbeeBoy:
I agree with you, it needs to discussed. Sometimes on this board though, there is just a mentality to shout people down with no thought. I suspect that a lot posters on here just don't understand corporate culture. I don't know if anyone even understood what happened during the course of this thread. Look at the number of posts on this thread, one of the busiest threads for some time. Mainly because ZooLoo just wanted to shout me down rather than nurture debate and discussion. I cannot even think about directing my peers to this site under these conditions. I hate M$ as much as the next guy but I can't come in to work on a Monday morning and say, "Right folks, I've never liked Microsoft so I've ditched it for something else." It has to be part of an implentation plan and requires a change to infratructure. I'm pretty much sold on Linux, so the Mozilla issue doesn't solve my long term objectives of removing Microsoft from the picture, I just don't see a big return from beating the users over the head to use Mozilla when they will use Exploder come what may. In fact, I went to one of my "power" users with Mozilla and they pretty much nixed it out of hand.
It's a tough sell but it can be done and it will take time.
I agree again and I believe that the key-phrase is in your last sentence, which I'll of course second. That's exactly the reason why we created sites like promote-opensource (http://promote-opensource.org) or openopen (http://www.openopen.org). They are of course very new and under intensive construction, that is content-wise, but we really hope on spreading the word. Perhaps you could direct your peers on them, and better yet contribute yourself. Anyway, I'm a bit off subject, but you get my drift (I hope).
(http://smile.gif)
PS I don't believe that zooloo had any intention of shouting you down. I think that he misunderstood your post nothing more. ;)
-
quote:
Originally posted by ShawnD1:
it's one thing mozilla and IE don't have. in Mozilla it loads the images from the webserver every single time. i've never seen the images just appear all at once in an instant like they do in opera, they always load 1 at a time from the server.
That is a HUGE mistake! Of course they cache pages as well as images. :confused:
-
quote:
Originally posted by Panos:
I agree again and I believe that the key-phrase is in your last sentence, which I'll of course second. That's exactly the reason why we created sites like promote-opensource (http://promote-opensource.org) or openopen (http://www.openopen.org). They are of course very new and under intensive construction, that is content-wise, but we really hope on spreading the word. Perhaps you could direct your peers on them, and better yet contribute yourself. Anyway, I'm a bit off subject, but you get my drift (I hope).
(http://smile.gif)
PS I don't believe that zooloo had any intention of shouting you down. I think that he misunderstood your post nothing more. ;)
I will take a look at these sites when time permits. I have bookmarked (In Mozilla mind) for later. I took a few minutes to review Part 1 of your Linux admin.
Thanks for your input,
HibeeBoy ;)
-
well, promote-opensource.org is the only one i think is really ready for prime time, but if you (or anybody else) want to help behind the scenes and make it all happen faster, do come and sign up at www.openopen.cjb.net (http://www.openopen.cjb.net)
-
Damn, I was so tired as I was writing the previous message that I forgot to mention the openopen forums. Thanks for reminding Calum. I feel a bit ashamed now. The openopen page will take some time, as it is planned to be a bigger page than promote-opensource.org.