Stop Microsoft
All Things Microsoft => Microsoft Software => Topic started by: NESnerd on 3 February 2002, 06:13
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Now, I know there's plenty of reasons why I shouldn't run Windows or all the other crap they have out. The fact that they own a huge monopoly and are trying to rule the internet, along with the fact that, what they put out usually sucks. (I went to best buy today and saw XP. The interface looks dumb as hell, but I didn't touch it at all, I thought it might burn me...) Anyways, I'm trying to convince some of my friends why M$ is evil. So I was wondering if you guys could post some more on it, give me some more good reasons, if you have the time. Oh and, I once heard Bill Gates owns Apple. That's not true, is it?
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windoze XP has some extreme security holes in it (i figure that they are there, so microshit can steal info).
vistit Gibson Research XP story (http://grc.com/dos/winxp.htm)
it is all about the raw socket security hole in WinXP.
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there is another PnP buffer overflow security hole in XP which could let someone gain system level access.
try going tohttp://grc.com/unpnp/unpnp.htm (http://grc.com/unpnp/unpnp.htm)
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Apart from the (obvious) security issues, linux (hell .... any non MS OS for that metter) is a *lot* more stable then winblows. Hell .... the only BSOD you'll ever see under linux is the one in the BSOD screensaver :D
If you play 3d games check out my findings in the "repost question" thread in the linux forum.
And you can also convince your friends that hey'll sleep better at night knowing they're not helping the biggest monopoly on earth getting it's foot deeper in the soil that is known as software :D
And bill doesn't own apple ..... he does seem to 0wn em tho :(
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Also wondering, could someone point out the strongpoints of what OS's are good for what. Like, which is best to design graphics, play games, set up a server or stuff like that. I'd kind of like to know...
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quote:
Originally posted by NESnerd:
Also wondering, could someone point out the strongpoints of what OS's are good for what. Like, which is best to design graphics, play games, set up a server or stuff like that. I'd kind of like to know...
Designing graphics is not a function of an OS, but of an application and there are good graphics applications that will run on all OSs, you may hear people talk bad about "The Gimp" but chances are those that talk bad about it have never really used it, it will do some extremely impressive stuff.
Games? PlayStation2 (Linux under the hood)
Server? *NIX (Linux is a *NIX)
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I have been an avid hater of all things M$ (I like that one) for many years, but I can't fight the buttholes who avenge XP. One guy said it was the best that has come out. I haven't seen a bigger pile of software crap since Windows 95.
As for the Apple ownership, yes Bill (Satan's love spawn) Gates did have part ownership at one point. I'm not sure if he does now. Steve kind of abandoned Apple some time ago but came back to promote the imac's release. If you want an entertaining and otherwise ignored history of the old IBM/MAC wars, I recommend the TV movie, Pirates of Silicon Valley, with Anthony Michael Hall playing the High Priest of Nerdom, Bill "I make the shitiest software and have the world's smallest penis" Gates. Doesn't make our god Steve look much better, but it's the truth, and the truth shall set you free.
Damn the man! Fight the M$ Empire!
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In response to appleavengergrl:
Actually steve didn't leave apple and come back for the iMac. He was ousted in a hostile takeover by that Pepsi guy Jobs hired as his second in comand. He loved Apple, it was his baby, but the stockholders were greedy and figured if they got rid of him they would make a mint.
Job's was soooo pissed of he sold off all of his Apple stock except for one share out of spite. They asked him back to Apple in order to save it and Jobs came in as the iCEO were he has remaind till this day (actually I don't know, did Jobs ever drop that title?).
Anyway...
At least in the beginning of the Apple resurection, Jobs worked for basically free. And I belive he still does today, his sallary is like nil, and his stock is also like nil. (Like I said, at least when he started as iCEO).
And as far as M$ owning stock in Apple. This was one of the consesions made by microsoft so Apple would drop the lawsuit against those rip-off bastards. Microshit HAD to buy Apple stock, and furthermore it was non-voting stock, microshit has no say in ANYTHING apple does.
As a matter of fact, Apple has been getting quite vocal recently in decrying some of Redmond Beast's tactics.
Apple was one of the first to tell the DOJ not to accept M$ oh so generous offer of distributing their Wintell Borgs to schools. And now Apple has joind in the Class action Lawsuit by AOL Time Warner against M$.
oh and.... Microsoft sucks ass!! OS X rulz (http://smile.gif)
whatever
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Microsoft products have a bad name because they are over used... you dont get any virus's or a wide range of USEFUL applications in *nix. Microsoft software is under a lot more stress than *nix, if some little kid was playing with a *nix box its possible to erase your whole hard drive right before your eyes without any warning messages or anything of the sort. Win is most likely just as stable as any *nix OS, its what you run on it that decreases stability. You dont play ghost recon on a nix box do you? you dont rip dvd's on a nix box do you? Windows XP is aimed at the new home user. All those annoying help things and reminders are there to help!, i bet i can find thousands who swear by it. For all you people who say "my nix box has 100 day uptime" 98% of the time the box is just sitting there.. not doing a thing, maybe just running an eggdrop. SO LAY OFF !
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quote:
Originally posted by cyrax-:
Microsoft products have a bad name because they are over used...
No, Microsoft products have a bad name because they "suck ass".
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you dont get any virus's or a wide range of USEFUL applications in *nix.
Right on count 1, couldn't be farther from the truth on count 2.
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Microsoft software is under a lot more stress than *nix
Completely false, MS OSs don't even come close to handling the "stress" that *NIX machines can handle.
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if some little kid was playing with a *nix box its possible to erase your whole hard drive right before your eyes without any warning messages or anything of the sort.
Again you have it backwards. Have you ever actually *used* *NIX? Kids can only screw up a WIndows machine without having Administrative authority. I'll let any kid on my machines and *ask* them to try and screw it up. They can't.
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Win is most likely just as stable as any *nix OS, its what you run on it that decreases stability.
Ahhh, you just admited that you have never used *NIX by the "most likely" statement.
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You dont play ghost recon on a nix box do you?
What's "ghost recon" and why would I want to play it?
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you dont rip dvd's on a nix box do you?
Yep.
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Windows XP is aimed at the new home user. All those annoying help things and reminders are there to help!, i bet i can find thousands who swear by it.
Boy you hit that one right on, so why would anyone want to put it on a server?
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For all you people who say "my nix box has 100 day uptime" 98% of the time the box is just sitting there.. not doing a thing, maybe just running an eggdrop.
I don't measure my uptime in days, I measure it in "years". And my *NIX boxes work 24 hours a day, unlike your little fisher price gameboy wannnabe.
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SO LAY OFF !
I don't believe that would be appropriate since MS is trying to ruin my world known as the Internet, not to mention my privacy.
Maybe you should actually think before you speak and try out the alternatives.... You might be pleasantly surprised. Hey, on a side note, did anyone catch the article about Wal-Mart now selling computer with no operating system? I think that's one company MS can't put the cuffs on. I know Wal-Mart isn't likely us geeks first choice for computer buying but looks like they might have some pretty good deals (without all that Microshit crap installed). Check out http://www.theregister.co.uk (http://www.theregister.co.uk)
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Hey,
I dont' usually reply to this kind of crap but in this case I think a response is appropriate.
Microsoft products have a bad name because they are over used...
No they have a bad name because MS is attempting to take over the internet and because they have used advertising and monoploistic tactics to brainwash the public into believing MS is better than they actually are.
you dont get any virus's
Wow and that means I don't have to waste $XXX bucks on software to protect myself from virus's.
or a wide range of USEFUL applications in *nix.
And what do you classify as useful? I can do pretty much anything I want on my nix machine. In fact I can do a great deal more than my wife can do on her W98 machine or my kids can do on their W95 machine.
Microsoft software is under a lot more stress than *nix,
Heh yeah just keep telling yourself that maybe one day you will actually believe it.
if some little kid was playing with a *nix box its possible to erase your whole hard drive right before your eyes without any warning messages or anything of the sort.
Damn sorry to crush your pretty little picture that you are attempting to paint here but my kids (6 and 9) can get on my nix machine and I don't have to worry at all about what they are doing. I set them up a special account and setup what I want them to be able to access and they can't do anything else. On their Win95 machine in their room I am constantly having to fix something that they have screwed up but on my nix box they CAN'T hurt anything.
Win is most likely just as stable as any *nix OS,
Ok so when I was running w98 my system crashed about 4 to 10 times a day. Now on Nix doing the same stuff I never crash. Sounds equally stable to me.
its what you run on it that decreases stability.
That is true to a degree.
You dont play ghost recon on a nix box do you?
Well since I have never heard of ghost recon I could not honestly say either way. Maybe I can play it with WineX maybe I can't. Oh and while we are on the subject I have over 80 games on my nix machine right now.
you dont rip dvd's on a nix box do you?
Oh but you can and at the same time do as many other things as you wish to do. So yes nix also has great multi-tasking.
Windows XP is aimed at the new home user.
I have never owned a copy of WinXP but in the 2 months since my brother got his new gateway computer complete with Win XP I have been at his house at least 10 times to FIX his broken OS. From what I have seen of it is appears to be NT in W98 wrapper with bloat added.
All those annoying help things and reminders are there to help!,
In this area I have to agree with you 100% correct, help is much better on MS products than on nix. However you must consider that MS is paying people a fortune to make it super user friendly. Nix on the other hand is based on the free labors of thousands of people through out the world. So understandably help would be better on the MS products. However the software is better on nix.
i bet i can find thousands who swear by it.
Yes your right you can. In the 1930's millions of people swore by Adolf Hitler also. Did that make them right?
For all you people who say "my nix box has 100 day uptime" 98% of the time the box is just sitting there.. not doing a thing, maybe just running an eggdrop.
I would not know much about this because all the comps in my house are shut down every night.
SO LAY OFF !
Ok let me get this straight. People here at fuckMicrosoft.com should lay off and NOT say anything that could possibly upset a microsoft user. I see it all clearly now. Of course how could we be so cruel and unjust. Thank you so much for clearing that up for us.
Translation : Grow Up, Get a life, Think for Yourself, Don't blindly accept propaganda.
One quick after thought. Lets say you don't like cheeseburgers but everyone you know loves them. By your logic you should eat those cheeseburgers even though you don't like them because you peers say that is how it should be.
Think about it. Linux offers choice. Windows says do it my way period.
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In response to "why is Micro-$oft a bunch of doggy doo" or whatever it was, here's a really good article, based on openminded firsthand experience, from a guy who wanted to fairly compare MacOS (presumably system 7) to Windows95 (http://www.digiserve.com/eescape/mac/Death-of-a-Thousand-Stings.html). Of course it's easy to guess what conclusions he comes up with given the tone of this site!
incidentally the credit for this link goes not to me, but to cahult who posted it here (http://forum.fuckmicrosoft.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=7&t=000061).
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quote:
Originally posted by cyrax-:
For all you people who say "my nix box has 100 day uptime" 98% of the time the box is just sitting there.. not doing a thing, maybe just running an eggdrop.
Or http://www.distributed.net/ (http://www.distributed.net/)
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????
does it just do maths?
sounds like an easy way to get a virus.
I reckon that SETI program which runs in yr downtime is much better, but that's just my preference...
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Bill "the bastard" Gates does have an Apple his ex blurted out once that he never goes anywhere without his old Apple Mac that does not have windows on it thats just for the saps, you see even the bastard knows that windows is shit.
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Bashing Macro$uck is cool and very laudable passtime, but sometimes a bit of substance does not hurt. This acticle has a medium sized beard (2 years), but there is one fascinating aspect -- nothing changed and it is as valid as it has been 2 years ago.
NSA access built into Windows!
How NSA access was built into Windows
Duncan Campbell 02.09.2000
Careless mistake reveals subversion of Windows by NSA.
A CARELESS mistake by Microsoft programmers has
revealed that special access codes prepared by the US
National Security Agency have been secretly built into
Windows.
The NSA access system is built into every version of the
Windows operating system now in use, except early releases of
Windows 95 (and its predecessors). The discovery comes close on
the heels of the revelations earlier this year that another US
software giant, Lotus, had built an NSA "help information"
trapdoor into its Notes system, and that security
functions on other software systems had been deliberately crippled.
The first discovery of the new NSA access system was
made two years ago by British researcher Dr Nicko van
Someren. But it was only a few weeks ago when a second
researcher rediscovered the access system. With it, he found
the evidence linking it to NSA.
Computer security specialists have been aware for two years
that unusual features are contained inside a standard Windows
software "driver" used for security and encryption functions.
The driver, called ADVAPI.DLL, enables and controls a range
of security functions.
If you use Windows, you will find it in the C:\Windows\system
directory of your computer. ADVAPI.DLL works closely with
Microsoft Internet Explorer, but will only run crypographic
functions that the US governments allows Microsoft to export.
That information is bad enough news, from a European point of
view. Now, it turns out that ADVAPI will run special programmes
inserted and controlled by NSA. As yet, no-one knows what these
programmes are, or what they do.
Dr Nicko van Someren reported at last year's Crypto 98 conference
that he had disassembled the
ADVADPI driver. He found it contained two different keys. One
was used by Microsoft to control the cryptographic functions
enabled in Windows, in compliance with US export regulations.
But the reason for building in a second key, or who owned it,
remained a mystery.
A second key
Two weeks ago, a US security company came up with
conclusive evidence that the second key belongs to NSA. Like
Dr van Someren, Andrew Fernandez, chief scientist with Cryptonym
of Morrisville, North Carolina, had been probing the
presence and significance of the two keys. Then he checked the
latest Service Pack release for Windows NT4, Service Pack 5.
He found that Microsoft's developers had failed to remove or "strip"
the debugging symbols used to test this software before they
released it. Inside the code were the labels for the two
keys. One was called "KEY". The other was called "NSAKEY".
Fernandes reported his re-discovery of the two CAPI
keys, and their secret meaning, to "Advances in Cryptology,
Crypto'99" conference held in Santa Barbara. According to
those present at the conference, Windows developers attending
the conference did not deny that the "NSA" key was built into
their software. But they refused to talk about what the key did,
or why it had been put there without users' knowledge.
A third key?!
But according
to two witnesses attending the conference, even Microsoft's
top crypto programmers were astonished to learn that the version
of ADVAPI.DLL shipping with Windows 2000 contains not two, but
three keys. Brian LaMachia, head of CAPI development at
Microsoft was "stunned" to learn of these discoveries, by
outsiders. The latest discovery by Dr van Someren is based
on advanced search methods which test and report on the "entropy"
of programming code.
Within the Microsoft organisation, access to Windows source code
is said to be highly compartmentalized, making it easy for
modifications to be inserted without the knowledge of even the
respective product managers.
Researchers are divided about whether the NSA key could be
intended to let US government users of Windows run classified
cryptosystems on their machines or whether it is intended to
open up anyone's and everyone's Windows computer to intelligence
gathering techniques deployed by NSA's burgeoning corps of
"information warriors".
According to Fernandez of Cryptonym, the result of having
the secret key inside your Windows operating system "is that it
is tremendously easier for the NSA to load unauthorized
security services on all copies of Microsoft Windows, and once
these security services are loaded, they can effectively
compromise your entire operating system". The NSA key is
contained inside all versions of Windows from Windows 95 OSR2
onwards.
"For non-American IT managers relying on Windows NT to
operate highly secure data centres, this find
is worrying", he added. "The US government is currently
making it as difficult as possible for "strong" crypto to be
used outside of the US. That they have also installed a
cryptographic back-door in the world's most abundant
operating system should send a strong message to foreign IT
managers".
"How is an IT manager to feel when they
learn that in every copy of Windows sold, Microsoft has a
'back door' for NSA - making it orders of magnitude easier for
the US government to access your computer?" he asked.
Can the loophole be turned round against the snoopers?
Dr van Someren feels that the primary purpose of
the NSA key inside Windows may be for legitimate US
government use. But he says that there cannot be a legitimate
explanation for the third key in Windows 2000 CAPI. "It
looks more fishy", he said.
Fernandez believes that NSA's built-in loophole can be
turned round against the snoopers. The NSA key inside CAPI
can be replaced by your own key, and used to sign cryptographic
security modules from overseas or unauthorised third parties,
unapproved by Microsoft or the NSA.
This is exactly what the US government has been trying to
prevent. A demonstration "how to do it" program that
replaces the NSA key can be found on Cryptonym's website.
According to one leading US cryptographer, the IT world
should be thankful that the subversion of Windows by NSA has
come to light before the arrival of CPUs that handles
encrypted instruction sets. These would make the type of
discoveries made this month impossible. "Had the next-generation
CPU's with encrypted instruction sets already been
deployed, we would have never found out about NSAKEY."
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OK,
now we need to see a "how do we sort it all out" article telling us what to do about it...
PREFERABLY in the feature articles section.
PS maybe the webmaster could approach posters here either to write new articles, or for permission to use lengthy posts they have posted in the feature articles section?
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Calum, yea, it is lenghty... But what would be a better reason not to use Macro$uck fuckware than this? ;)
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NO NO NO!!!
i wasn't being sarcastic or derogatory (for once).
I was just saying that this is the sort of thing that should be in feature articles, except that if it was in feature articles, it should have had somebody fully figure out what to do about it, like what the riddler did with the index.dat files...
i wasn't criticising its length at all!
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quote:
Originally posted by Calum:
????
does it just do maths?
sounds like an easy way to get a virus.
I reckon that SETI program which runs in yr downtime is much better, but that's just my preference...
Then run http://www.setiathome.com/ (http://www.setiathome.com/) who do I care?
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quote:
Computer security specialists have been aware for two years that unusual features are contained inside a standard Windows software "driver" used for security and encryption functions. The driver, called ADVAPI.DLL, enables and controls a range of security functions. If you use Windows, you will find it in the C:\Windows\system directory of your computer. ADVAPI.DLL works closely with Microsoft Internet Explorer, but will only run crypographic functions that the US governments allows Microsoft to export. That information is bad enough news, from a European point of view. Now, it turns out that ADVAPI will run special programmes inserted and controlled by NSA. As yet, no-one knows what these
programmes are, or what they do.
Okay, being the noob that I am, what happens if I delete this driver?
The whole thing makes you sick dosen't it?
Hope I didn't double post (again).
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quote:
Originally posted by gerry:
Okay, being the noob that I am, what happens if I delete this driver?
The whole thing makes you sick dosen't it?
Hope I didn't double post (again).
Doesn't make me sick. I deleted that driver, along with the rest of Windows long ago, and I don't miss either one of them one bit.
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Well, you sound like you're dumb as hell. Going with the bandwagon, are we? Face it, Microsoft has it's advantages and disadvantages like any other product out there. But you sound like you don't have a clue to what you're talking about because it seems like you're trying to act like a hardcore "linux" guy. I've used different distributions of Linux (Mandrake, Red Hat, SuSe, etc), and yes, they have some bugs, but I admit they are fewer. Microsoft is a BUSINESS, and most geeks don't know shit about business and I suggest they learn. Face it, your Linux distributors are in it for the money too, and if given a chance, they would bleed you too. My point is, know your shit before trying to act like you know.
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quote:
Originally posted by muchis:
My point is, know your shit before trying to act like you know.
Then you shoulden't have made this post (http://tongue.gif)
You obviosly have no clue what this forum is talking about or what you are talking about. And if that statement was about VoidMan you better wear some protective clothing cuz I think half this comunity will rise to his deffence (not to say he can't hold his own, cuz he can do so better than you fucktard!)
[ February 28, 2002: Message edited by: psyjax ]
[ February 28, 2002: Message edited by: psyjax ]
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muchis: does it hurt?
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It is probably painless, for any perception of hurting, there has to be some mental capacity, present, first. As they say: You can't squeeze blood from straw! :D
[ February 28, 2002: Message edited by: lu666s ]
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i find this "coincidence" odd.
there is a Dword count of 666 in advapi32.dll
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Devil made them do it! LOL
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quote:
Originally posted by muchis:
Well, you sound like you're dumb as hell. Going with the bandwagon, are we?
Who are you talking to? I hope you are talking about me. If you are talking about me, then you are correct, I "jumped on the Linux bandwagon" back in 1992 when I was already a Sr UNIX Systems engineer.
And as far as knowing business, I think I know a little about that as well, since I have my own business that is based exclusively on Linux. I have made quite a living replacing MS servers with Linux servers.
And I would be happy to take any knowlege test that you would like to throw at me about your little MS wannabe OSs as I am equally proficient with them. Which is why I hate them so much. And I don't resort to foul language like you, ya little punk ass piece of shit. (http://smile.gif)
[ February 28, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]
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quote:
Originally posted by muchis:
Microsoft is a BUSINESS, and most geeks don't know shit about business and I suggest they learn.
Microsoft is a ruthless monopoly without any ethics and without any notion of fair play...thanks for the biz lesson.
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quote:
He found that Microsoft's developers had failed to remove or "strip" the debugging symbols used to test this software before they released it. Inside the code were the labels for the two keys. One was called "KEY". The other was called "NSAKEY".
Now here's an interesting thought: suppose this wasn't an accident. Is it possible that those M$ programmers deliberately left that in there in the hope that it would be discovered? ;) It would be a good way to screw the NSA (http://tongue.gif) don't you think?
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quote:
Originally posted by Gooseberry Clock:
Then run http://www.setiathome.com/ (http://www.setiathome.com/) who do I care?
i didn't say you cared! i wasn't talking to you at all!
quote:
Originally posted by muchis:
a whole bunch of inflammatory crap that i can't be arsed quoting properly.
muchis, is your brain running Windows XP? you need to reboot before you post again (http://tongue.gif)
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Re-Post
quote:
Computer security specialists have been aware for two years that unusual features are contained inside a standard Windows software "driver" used for security and encryption functions. The driver, called ADVAPI.DLL, enables and controls a range of security functions. If you use Windows, you will find it in the C:\Windows\system directory of your computer. ADVAPI.DLL works closely with Microsoft Internet Explorer, but will only run crypographic functions that the US governments allows Microsoft to export. That information is bad enough news, from a European point of view. Now, it turns out that ADVAPI will run special programmes inserted and controlled by NSA. As yet, no-one knows what these
programmes are, or what they do.
Okay, being the noob that I am, what happens if I delete this driver? The whole thing makes you sick dosen't it? Hope I didn't double post (again).
Still waiting for that elusive answer.
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Due to the integration of IE in OS, you can't remove the file (advapi32.dll in v.'s above 95).
However, although loaded dynamically with windoze startup, the file is available for IE and M$ applications that connect to internet.
Thus, the only solution (bare direct modifications of the file) is not to run M$ programs that connect to internet -- IE, M$ Media Player, etc.
The only true solution that is known to have absolutely positive results -- a sensible security measure -- would be not to run windoze at all. :D
Re VoidMain point that something of this sort may be in 'inserted' in linux: The answer is, it might, but for how long it would stay in there? You can look at the kernel source any time, so if someone tries to hide something in there, it would not last a day without being spotted and eradicated. This is one of the most appealing features that open source offers, without a doubt.
[ March 02, 2002: Message edited by: lu666s ]
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quote:
Originally posted by psyjax:
At least in the beginning of the Apple resurection, Jobs worked for basically free. And I belive he still does today, his sallary is like nil, and his stock is also like nil. (Like I said, at least when he started as iCEO).
You're almost right there.....according to Guinness World Records Jobs' annual salary is $1 a year......but he does have something like 10 million shares to his name.
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lu666s.......ok thanx
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quote:
Originally posted by lu666s:
Re VoidMain point that something of this sort may be in 'inserted' in linux: The answer is, it might, but for how long it would stay in there? You can look at the kernel source any time, so if someone tries to hide something in there, it would not last a day without being spotted and eradicated. This is one of the most appealing features that open source offers, without a doubt.
First off as you know I am totally pro open source and totally against M$. But the using the technique in that article I referenced there would be no trace of the back door in any source code. You could recompile said source code and the back door would continue to be in the binary (because the back door is built in to the compiler binary to propogate itself to the new compiler binary even though it's not in the compiler source code. Being open source would not prevent it. The only way you could be sure that you have a good freshly compiled binary is to be sure that the compiler you used did not have the back door generator. The only way you could be sure about that is if you disassembled the original compiler binary and studied it carefully. Something that is less likely to happen than studying the source of said compiler.
Now, I have never had an open source eXPerience that would cause me to be suspicious that something like this were likely. But it is possible if a company like RedHat were to be persuaded by a government or some other motivation it appears they could be just as evil as M$ if they wanted. I'm not in to conspiracy theories so I will continue to "trust" them and continue to have a better open source eXPerience than I could possibly have with any M$ product.
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is there any win2000 specific reasons not to use win2000?
or just the obvious issues, as with any microshit product?
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quote:
Originally posted by Druaga:
is there any win2000 specific reasons not to use win2000?
or just the obvious issues, as with any microshit product?
Aren't the obvious issues enough?
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quote:
Originally posted by muchis:
Well, you sound like you're dumb as hell. Going with the bandwagon, are we?
Please explain to me why NOT using the most prolific operating system out there is "going with the bandwagon" . . .
quote:
Face it, Microsoft has it's advantages and disadvantages like any other product out there.
Microsoft is a product? Shut up and go home, dumbass.
quote:
But you sound like you don't have a clue to what you're talking about because it seems like you're trying to act like a hardcore "linux" guy.
This is supposed to be a sentence? What the hell is it supposed to mean?
quote:
I've used different distributions of Linux (Mandrake, Red Hat, SuSe, etc), and yes, they have some bugs, but I admit they are fewer.
Hmm. This "sentence" seems to be slightly easier to understand; however, I don't see how this sentence has anything to do with the rest of your post.
quote:
Microsoft is a BUSINESS, and most geeks don't know shit about business and I suggest they learn.
First Microsoft is a product; now it is a business. Well, I suppose 1 for 2 isn't too bad, even though you only managed to get your facts straight on this issue 50% of the time . . .
quote:
Face it, your Linux distributors are in it for the money too, and if given a chance, they would bleed you too. My point is, know your shit before trying to act like you know.
For your information, Linux distributors simply aren't allowed to bleed the Linux community in the same way that Microsoft can push their customers around. Linux (both the kernel and the operating system in general) is owned by the community, and therefore cannot be leveraged in the same way Microsoft can leverage Windows. Maybe you should learn your shit before acting like you know what you're talking about. Hell, maybe you should start by learning the English language, you fucking idiot.
Sincerely,
-Gump420
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quote:
Originally posted by muchis:
Face it, your Linux distributors are in it for the money too, and if given a chance, they would bleed you too.
That is very true...take for example...Lindows OS. They expect you to pay $99 to use a Pre-release of Lindows and they even say in the agreement that they can not garantee that Lindows will ever be completed. WTF is up with that? You can have a full version copy of Win9x(Windows 95/98/98SE/ME) for less than that(or you can have an upgrade copy of XP Home for the same price), plus you know that the real thing will run all Win32 apps(With Lindows you can't be so sure of that). Also..Win9x has an ugly GUI, but it definatley looks better than Lindows.
Another example, go into Office Max or Staples and look at thier software shelf. They actually try to sell Redhat Linux for $79. The day Linux can run *EVERY* single app/game that I want it to run I may consider using it again. For the time being I'll stick with Windows because I can play virtually any game on it(because games are always ported to Windows if it wasn't originally a Win32 game) plus I can emulate any system I want to emulate in Windows(with the exception of PS2, X-Box and Gamecue right now). You can't even get a decent N64 emulator for Linux.
[ March 04, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]
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Damn Zombie, play your silly games on Windows, who gives a shit. Lindows ain't going to suck any money out of me because I can download many *much* better distributions for free (and totally legally). And yes RedHat sells a copy for $79, they also sell a version for $1999. I can't call RedHat and get support for on their product without paying for a support contract. But that's alright, I don't need it. I also don't get the pretty printed manuals. Some businesses prefer to have someone's but on the line if something doesn't work. You're not going to get that for free. Companies are in business to make money. They can't put a product on the shelf and put a $0 price tag on it. But they can offer it for download and put a $0 price tag on it.
RedHat does what I need 1000 times better than any MS operating system. But I know your just trollin' like usual...
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Ehhh, how is pointing out facts trolling? :rolleyes:
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Some here have pointed out the fact that you are a zipperhead. And the day Win* can run every single app I need I will buy it. That'll never happen.
[ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]
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Whoah son, I'm no zipperhead(You may be a zipperhead seeing how your mind is zipped shut). Unlike you, I'm not closed minded. You see, I may prefer using Windows right now because of it's obvious advantages but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't use something else if I felt it was better. I don't go around bashing the creator of Linux and I don't go around bashing every piece of software he has ever written. If I feel something is better then I say so. I give credit where it is due.
You on the other hand....you go around with the attitude that if it is made by MS then it is worthy of bashing even if the product is better. You would never make the switch to a MS OS even if it is better just because you hate MS(truthfully you are probably jealous of Billy and his $$$). You my friend are closed minded and you also find it hard to accept the fact that your OS is not perfect(it has bugs, downfalls, etc). I know Windows isn't perfect and I don't claim it is, but at least it can do everything. *nix on the other hand isn't intended to be a desktop OS hence why it has advantages geared towards server use and not average consumer use.
Seeing most of the replies made by the open source community leads me to believe that most of you live by the motto "Open source - Closed mind*. Most of the open source community are closed minded just like you and they will not admit when something else can do something better than your beloved OS. The mentality of the open source community is *if he likes what I hate then he should be flamed* or *if he points out bugs and downfalls of my beloved OS he needs to be flamed...heaven forbid that I admit that what he says is true and I actually debate with him...I know! I'll call him a name that a 3rd grader would use*.
It is silly that you people actually hate another human being for liking certain software. Give me a god damn break, software is just data that is stored magnetically to a little disk platter. Grow the fuck up man and quit calling people names and shit like a little child.
[ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]
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Ya your little iStuff pic is real mature.
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I also think you failed to catch the point of my first post in this topic. The point of the post was..*IF* a Linux distributer thinks they can get away with charging money for thier OS they will do it(just like MS). Business is business man, do you really think any of the companies who distribute Linux gives a rats ass about you. Hell no they don't, they are in it for the $$$ just like MS.
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quote:
Originally posted by psyjax:
Ya your little iStuff pic is real mature.
Ha, the sig is a joke d00d. Sadly enough, the joke actually reflects some truth on the Mac community. They love ranting about how easy a Mac is to use(because they do not have to manually install hardware drivers). Ease of use actually used to be a big part of Maccie arguments. If a person wants something just because it is easy to use then they are a certified simpleton(kinda like all of the AOL zombies who fear learning how to use a real browser and a real ISP).
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First of all, your signature, good joke (a sarcastic round of applause).
Macs are easy to use. Windows is for idiots, but wait, Windows is trying to be as easy to use as the MacOS. It succeeds in dumbing down the interface, but it fails in actually making the system any easier to use. You get the worst of both worlds!
Now, can i reiterate something that was said earlier? You were telling us all how linux vendors are all ripoff merchant cowboy Bill Gates wannabes.
Well the point here is that the OS is free, and if you pay money for it, you pay for a LICENCE. Unlike windows, there IS a FREE licence that ANYBODY can use linux under, but if you choose to BUY a licence from an independent vendor (not the manufacturer of the software, so it's not a monopoly) then you get whatever the licence promises. Support and manuals? extra bundled software? Support for a company with 60 clueless employees who will all ring up with dumb questions every five minutes and your IT guy only knows how to work windows? Whatever you like.
The reason that these 3rd parties can provide such comprehensive support, is the open source thing. The OS is totally OPEN (get it?) so you can see how it works. If you can't see, you pay a professional to come and look at it so they can tell you how it works.
Now a couple of your comments i would like to reply to:
quote:
It is silly that you people actually hate another human being for liking certain software. Give me a god damn break, software is just data that is stored magnetically to a little disk platter. Grow the fuck up man and quit calling people names and shit like a little child.
don't get such a big head. People might find you irritating at times ;) but they don't hate you.
lastly, this is my favourite:
quote:
Windows isn't perfect and I don't claim it is, but at least it can do everything.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!! HA HA !! HA!
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I think its blatently obvious to anyone that NO SOFTWARE CAN DO EVERYTHING!!! I run both windows and redhat linux because of that fact. Windows is slower in most respects (recent improvements have been cutting this aspect of windows out) and is very buggy. I think that people have to get extra upset at microsoft not because of its second rate software...but because of its monopoly. User support is so great for windows because the "Average User" can easlily accomplish complicated tasks. That is the brilliance of it. Soo because so many people use it because its usable, Software companies have to respond by making their programs compatible. So now we have a bunch of people stuck in the middle who have no choice in the matter because of compatibility. That pisses people off.
A friend of mine recently acquired a beta version of lindows which is still rather buggy but promises a safe alternative to using windows.
You shouldnt take personal offence because other people dont like what you like. Everyone should use what they're comfortable with but not be afraid of change. If the time comes when its essential to use windows I'll use it.. If there's another way I'll choose to use that instead, but pride wont stop my exploration of other and in my opinion better OS's.
Dont forget that any software can be free if you dont think that the person selling it to you deserves it. I've never paid for a copy of windows in my entire life, but if i felt that they had a decent OS for a resonable price I would spend the cash on it. Maybe someday. (http://smile.gif)
[ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: Ozymandias ]
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quote:
Originally posted by Zombie9920:
They love ranting about how easy a Mac is to use(because they do not have to manually install hardware drivers). Ease of use actually used to be a big part of Maccie arguments. If a person wants something just because it is easy to use then they are a certified simpleton(kinda like all of the AOL zombies who fear learning how to use a real browser and a real ISP).
Mac peoiple are way away from AOL zombies and simpletons. I think you misinterpret the Mac arguemnt. The whole ease of use thing revolves around actual functionality of the inteface. Windows pretends to be easy to use and functional but fails miserably.
The fact is that even in the oldest macs the PC people loved talking crap about how not techy they were. I wonder how winowzes proported ease of use sold it so weill ? (http://tongue.gif)
But if you knew anything about 'em, you could get just as techy with an old system 6 machine as with any Windoze box. The point was that the system fuctions fine without the need for the tech. They were computers built so that everyone (note: EVERYONE) could use them, and no mater how you like branding people simpoltons for this desire, you would not have a computer on your desk if it wasent for it.
No one is born a computer wizard (no matter how much you'd like to think you were) Im sure you were introduced to these wonderful machines on a Comodor, Tandy, Amiga or even an old Apple, did you jump right in and go nuts over all the things you could tweak on your motherboard, or what you could change in various .ini files. Of course not! You probably creamed your jeans the first time you booted up Test Drive, and thats all you did with the darnd thing, despite your parents buying you Algeblaster and other edu-tainment crap (semi-Autobigraphical) (http://smile.gif) . By your deffinition I suppose you were a simpolton at that time because you couldent get past Dir or Cd commands.
Im sure you find instaling drivers manualy and configuring BAT files and diging thrugh the registry a whole lot of fun. But often, I like to tell my computer what I want it to do and it will do it, my way, and not force me to deconstruct it in order to make it functional.
And with OSX that techy argument turns in to a pile of crap. Macs have UNIX now, what the hell does windows have, DOS? And guess what, the system is still as simple to use and intuative as it ever was, something windowz wishes.
There is a large programming comunity on the MacOS, there is a large server comunity, even an open source comunity (of course windows wouldent allow this), there are Mac haker sites, there are mac everything. And alot of these are pre-OSX, heck some go as far back as OS 7.0. Fine grupe of simpoltons that don't know how to be techy there, huh?
Get real, I can get techy with a cordless phone and berate you as a simpleton because you don't know how to hardwire a 100 watt AMP to the thing and get it to pump out 4 channel high quality stereo sound.
Sometimes people only need things to do, what they want them to do, at the time they are doing it. This doesn't make them simpletons.
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Though macs are making a comeback from the past few years of being ERRADICATED by Pc's they still have a long way to go before they are an open system whatsoever. Try changing your video card sometime.. Or maybe you'll want to install a new hard drive.. I used to have a mac back in the day and it was cool, but its time was then and now it needs to die. I dont have anything against people who use them I just dont believe they are the future. Macs require just as much setup as pc's anyhow. In some respects they can be easier to use once you get them set up, but try to buy individual parts and construct your own.. GOOD LUCK!! (http://smile.gif)
P.S. --Nice windows bashing anyhow but UNIX IS ON EVERYTHING EVEN YOUR HATED PC'S
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I don't hate PC's. Just don't like Windoze.
What are you talking about anyway? I bought a new HD not to long ago, had no problem. A nice 80GB one, I have bought vid. cards too.
[ March 06, 2002: Message edited by: psyjax ]
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Most macs I've encountered are so proprietary that installing new peripheral devices causes headache after headache... If your's was easy then great!! I'll stick with my home built pc..
(http://tongue.gif)
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quote:
Originally posted by Ozymandias:
Most macs I've encountered are so proprietary that installing new peripheral devices causes headache after headache... If your's was easy then great!! I'll stick with my home built pc..
(http://tongue.gif)
Hey like I said, PC's are great I used to have one. Theyr great little workhorses that you can tinker with. But I must dissagree on the paripherals issue. Most of the hi end graphics cards, video cards, are made for the mac. The same RAM for PC runs on the mac, most of the highend printers run on mac (duh!) I dunno. Never really had a problem with this.... hmmm.... maybe you owned one of the iMac type all one things over the years, Those things are excruciatingly trimmed down for expandability.
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I agree on the last set of replies from Psyjax totally. I have long wondered about the fact that if you miss installing some drivers in windows that peripheral cannot function correctly. I can give you an example of this:
My mother bought a USB scanner for her computer (win 98) and plugged it in. The system recognized that new hardware were being added to the whole entity and subsequently asked for the right set of drivers. I put the CD in and it searched, but the damn thing couldn
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you could refresh the folder whenever you wanted to see the size of the file, instead of reopening it. it's easy if you have your explorer windows set up with that little "Go" button, but no, it doesn't autorefresh the size continuously.
Win98 has that problem, you need to know exactly which directory the CORRECT driver is in for it to install. this is awkward for the following reason, the right driver for you might be in "D:/Software/Drivers/Win98/English/" but if you accidentally specify, say "D:/Software/Drivers/Win2k/English/" you will still install A driver but your peripheral will probably not work, as it will be the wrong driver for THAT version of windows.
WinME is actually BETTER than 98 in this respect. It allows you to search the entire CD for drivers all in one hit, rather than folder at a time like 98 does. The problem with ME is that once it finds A driver it stops looking. So if the generic drivers are at the start of the CD, and the (better) specialist ones are near the end, windows sees the generic ones first and goes "aha! windows has found a suitable driver for this device". Unless you know that there is a better driver on there, you will probably beleive what it says!
Also, winME has the advantage of being 2 years more recent, so it installs some hardware no bother, while win98 just shrugs its shoulders and looks blank.
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Some Windoze borg allways seem to imply how the manual instalation of drivers is no big deal, and only a minor anoyance when compared to the briliance, power, and ease of use that is windowz.... sound's like a right pain in the ass to me!
I rememember back on my old P100 (or was it 150, whatever, it was an old clunker (http://smile.gif) running 98. For reasons unbeknownst to me (actualy a prety severe crash, corupted some of my files) the driver on my CR-ROM disapered and I had to re-install it. Had to jump thrugh several hoops as listed above before I finaly got it to work again. One major problem was that Windows 98, with all it's drivers, was on CD!!!!
It was great every time I booted up and the Hardware Wizard would detect a new CD-Rom and then pester me for the Windows 98 CD so it could get the driver, of course the damn OS didn't know how to read the CD so it would never move from that screen!!!
How fucking stupid is that!!!!
erg.... anyway, never had a similar problem runing the MacOS ever in my life.
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Err X11 Id curb my toung if I were you. Calum is by no means a Windows loving idiot, and he's quite good at flaming peoples asses off. I'll leve that job to him.
Be more carefull next time.
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i think i will go back to win 3.* (and linux of course)
is there actually any version of windows before version 3.00?? (if there is, maybe its even better, lol)
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Win 1.X , 2.X, 3.X (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q32905)
ahhhh, back in the days of win 1.X when it only needed 256 K of RAM
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quote:
Originally posted by X11:
CALUM...
You are just yet another Microsoft Loveing idiot.
Oh really, dumbass? did you get your 'friend' to read this to you? you obviously can't read or you would have noticed from ALL MY OTHER POSTS ALL OVER THESE FORUMS that i am in no way a "Microsoft Loveing idiot". (i suppose your 'friend' spelt that for you as well?) I was going to let you off easy since you are obviously a complete message board dickhead, and don't know any better but then you go and say:
quote:
-----------------------------------------------
[[email protected]] /var/www/html/ #ls
Culumisgay.html index.html picsofcalumsmum.html
[[email protected]] /var/www/html/ #
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That is my example YOU ONLY NEED A SHELL!!!
Wow, good example.
Tell me, do you have any real friends? or do you just hang around with other dumbasses so you can all take a turn at the braincell?
What possessed you to type this is beyond me. I am totally unmoved and am only replying to let you know how much of a dicksplash i think you really are. next step is for you to tell VoidMain that he blows goats off, and maybe you could tell the webmaster he's a toadying slimebag. That would prove to everybody how great you are, one of us and all that bullshit.
Here's another gem:
quote:
At first microsoft made a
rip-off of CP/M hence, DOS
A small point this may be, but if you are going to post here trying to show off with your flashy "knowledge", make sure it isn't the heap of bullshit that this supposed "fact" is. M$ did not 'make' DOS, they BOUGHT it. Just like M$ do with everything. They secured a big licensing deal with IBM, saying they had an operating system, when they didn't, then they nipped out afterwards and BOUGHT the operating system for peanuts once they knew that the money was in the bag. Just a word of advice, SHUT UP when you talk to me.
I can't even be bothered to come up with more than a halfway witty retort to this piece of nonsense, so what i suggest, so called "X11", is for you to piss off back to your all night AOL chatrooms, telling people what a cool 'hacker' you are, and trying to get women to 'PM' you. Good luck, fucktard...
[ March 13, 2002: Message edited by: Calum ]
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Cmon guys, I could go through all of these posts and knock tham all down.
Apple sucks. It is inferior to IBM clone products. Only die hard, afraid to let go of what they know people still use them.
M$ is not a monopoly. There cannot be a monopoly when no other company is really trying to make better products. Linux doesnt count cuz its free.
If there was another OS that everyone used, dont you think there would be more viruses for it? Yes, there are viruses for Linux. There arent more cuz of the little effect they would have. But there would be more if every used it.
Dont even bring up Netscape. Its as usless as AOL.
Look, I enjoy taking pot shots at the stupid way MS has put together its OS, but cmon, dont give stupid reasons for not wanting to use it.....
Oh yeah, turn off the idiot box. Can you say propaganda.....
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Ok splotch, show us the Linux viru. Where are they?
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Linux virus. easy.
Try searching Google maybe. (http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&as_qdr=all&q=linux+virus&btnG=Google+Search)
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I could only find one or two of what could be considered a virus. (Almost all of those hits in Google point to the same one or two). And could you kindly explain how I would be able to get a virus in Linux? My email program will not automatically execute a program, and even if it does, what's it going to do? It can't modify any system files. I've been trying for 10 years and still haven't seen one. There are no binary executables that my userid has permissions to modify. It can't run through my personal email list and send itself to my friends. So can you explain to me why I should be concerned and how you can even consider it a virus?
And this guy has publicly challenged anyone on the net to infect his system with a virus: http://www.roaringpenguin.com/mimedefang/anti-virus.php3 (http://www.roaringpenguin.com/mimedefang/anti-virus.php3)
It's also interesting that I had to install Linux servers in front of our exchange servers to keep Windows viruses from entering the exchange servers, and on to our users. And believe me, the Exchange servers are soon to be replaced with Linux servers (they were installed prior to my arrival).
[ March 15, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]
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quote:
Originally posted by SPoT:
Apple sucks. It is inferior to IBM clone products. Only die hard, afraid to let go of what they know people still use them.
I have yet to see someone prove this to me. I mean seriously, do you know what you are talking about, or are you just trolling for the Mac fans?
Maybe the Film Industry, Education, and Publishing are narowminded industries that are afraid to let go of what they know, but I don't think so/
This is a load of crap, Apple's are comparable to IBM clones in more ways than one and have a few advantages over them which I have discused elsewere. And I, and many other Mac users, are not die hard let go what they know blah blah blah... alot of us are people who got sick of Bill Gates putting his dick in our ass and switched over to a decent platform/OS.
And what the hell do you mean M$ is not a monopoly? Jesus, they are only out to control the desktop computer market and the internet experience. They just go around stealing/buying up/ extorting other companies good ideas and passing them off as their own, in the interest of dominating their market and controling peoples CHOICE!! No not a monopoly, a fucking cancer!
Since when has M$ made a serious attempt at making a better product?! Honestly, your the one who seems to be eating up the propagahnda... M$ has never had an origional idea, has never made an attempt at putting out a GOOD product, and has never made an attempt at actual competiotion. M$'s buisness idea is to coral their users into a small little cage and bleed their wallets. Your probably don't see this cuz it looks like maybe you are one of those people who are aftraid to let go of what they know etc. etc. ? Maybe you should turn off the idiot box.
But then again your idea of a computer probably means something you can play Quake on and surf for porn. In that case, go ahead and let XP watch you do it and make sure it keeps a watchfull eye on you.
[ March 15, 2002: Message edited by: psyjax ]
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quote:
Increased virus-writer activity in the area of virus development for Linux has been registered this year. 37 new viruses and Trojans for this operating system have been detected. Therefore, currently the total number of viruses for Linux is 43, and what is most remarkable is that in 2000, the quantity of these viruses has increased 7-fold.
Despite the fact that some species are able to replicate and work independently, no Linux virus has ever been detected "in-the-wild." Kaspersky Lab experts assume that this is because the Linux desktop standard is not as popular as its competitors.
The most interesting member of the Linux virus family is Siilov. It is the first Linux virus that works in background mode, and is able to infect files in real-time mode.
source (http://antivirus.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kaspersky.com%2Fnews.asp%3Ftnews%3D0%26nview%3D4%26id%3D144%26page%3D0)
[ March 15, 2002: Message edited by: Fett101 ]
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I don't think you've ever run Linux. The reasons that these viruses are not widespread is not because Linux is not widespread. It's because viruses can't replicate like they can in Windows. Again, I have *no* fear of viruses in Linux. I've never seen one, I've never known anyone who has seen one. And even if 100% of the desktops ran Linux viruses would not be a wide spread problem, period. One of the nice things about Linux is there is diversity, unlike Winblows. You got one Winblows machine, you got em all. What email client do you use? I'll bet you use one of the two virus traps Outlook or Outlook Express right? Ask a Linux person what they use for an email client, I bet you rarely get the same answer. This is not a bad thing. It's competition, and if you are a virus writer by profession, you won't be in business very long.
Oh, and out of those 43 "trojans and viruses", how many were *actually* viruses? They are two different things. Now, even if one or two of them could actually be considered viruses (which I would still likely contest), they just couldn't do much damage or spread very far. And I wouldn't be surprised if it's the AV companies trying to spread fear by starting these rumors or writing a feeble "virus" just so they can stay in business after Microsoft goes out of business.
[ March 15, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]
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quote:
Ask a Linux person what they use for an email client, I bet you rarely get the same answer
And if you get 90% of computers to run linux, how many different e-mail clients will there really be? There would surely be a few very popular ones that could be found on a large number of machines.
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And how many of those will execute a program just by opening an email or by a carefully embedded JavaScript? Answer=0. And even if they could, what harm can they do? Users can't mess with system files. That's the difference between win* and *NIX.
[ March 15, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]
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On any software, all that it take to hack into it is the desire. Any software. Most virus writers are writing then to have their name written in their own version of history. "I caused the corruption of so many computers" type o thing. They arent stable. They attack Microsoft product cuz of the wide use, not so much the ease of it. But nothing is unhackable.
Apple. Plz tell me what Apple PC can out perform an IBM clone? Ill buy it! Are we talking software or hardware here? Plz. No Apple hardware can out perform an IBM. Im sure there are great apps out there for the apple, but there are more different, if not better, for IBM. Apple has limited hardware support and software support. Thats its downfall. Greater limits. Less choises. The OS has nothing to do with it really.
quote:
And what the hell do you mean M$ is not a monopoly? Jesus, they are only out to control the desktop computer market and the internet experience. They just go around stealing/buying up/ extorting other companies good ideas and passing them off as their own, in the interest of dominating their market and controling peoples CHOICE!! No not a monopoly, a fucking cancer!
Look. As I posted in the other thread. Microsoft is in the buisness of making money. If not for Microsoft, there wouldnt be a PC in half the homes in America. Microsoft made the indestry. They have employees that have paychecks, that make a living off their profits. Now along comes a company that has made absolutly no progress in years and says that Microsoft is keeping them out of the game. Thats not what I call a Monopoly. What Im saying is that no one has even tried to make a better system. That isnt compitition, its a hand out. If you try and get beat down due to unfair practices, then ok. If you dont and get beat down, what do you expect?
My idea of a PC is giving me what I want without having to go through a buch of crap to get it. I tweak the hell outta Win98 so I can get that info even faster. Anything I need, I can get with Windows. Being surfing the net for porn, playing UT, surfing, buisness, what ever. Its all due to Microsoft cash. Why does Linux not have the same options? Cuz its free. There is no money in it.
The reason most of us her are able to bitch about Microsoft is due to two things. Al Gore, and Microsoft. I just dont understand the contempt for the company in general. The windows OS's and its fat, bloated design, but not the company.
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To FelTtch and Splodge:
you seem unable to grasp this simple concept:
Linux is secure because a casual user does not have the PERMISSION to corrupt essential data to the system.
This means, any program that is run by a user can only corrupt the data they themselves have access to.
This *does* mean that if that person has not backed up their files that day, they may lose a day of work, but them's the breaks.
There is no way a system can be screwed by a trojan or a virus in Linux, unless it runs as root. For that to happen it will need to be able to login as root. Only the sysadmin can do that.
Okay, that's out of the way, let's hear you both retort, nice and loud so everybody can hear you!
i am not an old time linux user btw, but i am open minded and not stupid, and i know some of the fundamental differences between Linux and "another leading operating system" (i partly just said that to give you something to quote in your retort...)
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Splot:
Ok... Hmmmm....
I have to totaly disagree with you. You are right, M$ is out to make money, but that is all they are out for!
Have you read about their practices at all? Did you know that even IE was a browser userped unfairly from another company with the SPECIFIC intent of driving Netscape out of Buisness? Did you know that the very windows interface was a SPECIFIC attempt at riping off the MacOS? Did you know M$ has not actually made or designed a single pice of software themselves (save for Office and similar crap)???
Furthermore, M$ throws its weight around with the intent of forcing their associets to block other companies, like the deal with vendors shiping computers with other OS's. M$ doese not care about the end users at all and would rather make themselves a sinacure by driving everyone out of buissness and keeping their users locked in a little M$ cage.
Did you know M$ made an attempt at actually monopolizing HTML? Did you know that one of their main buisness tactics is FUD? Did you know that even DOS is a stolen OS, and thet OS/2 was also sabatoged by M$ when they baild and ran away with half the code?
And as for your other assertion that if it werent for M$ there wouldnet be PC's. AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH!!! Jezz.... the first PC was the freaking APPLE!!!! The only reason M$ made it as far is Windows was because of Apple! Apple had the first PC's along with Comodor Atari etc. etc. and for their day, they were pretty damn popular.
Finaly, Apple Hardware is pretty freakin awsome. Take a look at the G4 spec's, and don't come whining about Mhz because we have been thrugh this on this forum far to many times. When my bro. worked for Disney for example, they had him on a 90Mhz SGI workstation and it ran blindingly fast and renderd everything in a split second, how? Hardware optimization and effeciency.
When you see more applications for Windoze, sure, I allways wanted 3000 spread sheet programs, 16000 viruses, 1billion quake clones, to sift thrugh, but sometimes Id like to find the good ones. In any case, a suped up Mac can handle graphics apps better than any PC, which is why they are used, and why I use them.
I seriously don't understand how you can be so dilusional about M$'s buisness. Seriously, do some resaerch and you will learn just how predetory they are. For god sakes, the entire reason for the XBox was because the Sony CEO mentioned that he wanted to make the PS2 into a sort of online internet appliance, M$ pushed the XBox out the door over a weekend, bought out a bunch of good developers and threw out their origional staff (i.e. Bungie), and is now trying to take over the console market. Is this fair?
It's not quite competition when the driving factor is not to better your competitors but rather to cripple them under the weight of your economic clout. M$ has no interest in making a good product, their interst lies in keeping the user traped and limiting his choice, IE became popular this way, as well as countless other programs of theirs.
M$ never had you in mind when you bought their product, they had your wallet in mind. And the common PC user dosn't realize that M$ has 'em by the balls when they use windoze, because in that realm, when M$ says frog, everybody jumps.
[ March 15, 2002: Message edited by: psyjax ]
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Ok, back to the virus thing 1 mo time with feeling. Nothing is secure. Yes it is very possible to get into a Linux super user login and crash it, transfer info, or wipe it out. Linux is not unhackable. Can I do it? No. But can it be done and will you see it more and more as the OS is more commonly used? Yes.
And after you get Linux up and running, what can you do with it? I said nothing I need.
Psyjax.
quote:
And as for your other assertion that if it werent for M$ there wouldnet be PC's.
I never said that. I said the popularity of PC's as a entertainment medium is due to Microsoft.
quote:
Have you read about their practices at all?
Yes. Do I believe it all? No.
Netscape has mismanaged thier own company without any help from Microsoft. Take a look at thier stock history. Besides, IE didnt need to specificly take out Netscape. It is an inferior product.
Now has Microsoft violated any Copywrite laws? No harm, no foul. This arguement is now dead.
As for their buisness practices...
Light weight contender. Look at APEC, look at your electric and phone companies, look at your utility company and tell me Microsoft is doing anything near a Monopoly. And it really very simple, Browsing the net is entertainment. This isnt Food or medicine. No one can die from not having it, or using it for that matter.
Microsoft makes its OS, then creates apps. to run on its software. They do not have to allow anyone to make add ons to their product. Where is Netscapes OS?
I work in a buisness where I have to look at money every day. I have to look at costs vs. profits. To make money for my company, I have to give the best service I can to draw customers away from my competitor, or at least give then a service no one else can. Now if someone comes along and offers a better service for less, Im dead unless I adjust for the compitions product also. I have to keep up to be profitable.
No one has even tried to keep up with Microsoft, so now they are dead in the water, looking for a handout.
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quote:
Originally posted by SPoT:
Ok, back to the virus thing 1 mo time with feeling. Nothing is secure. Yes it is very possible to get into a Linux super user login and crash it, transfer info, or wipe it out. Linux is not unhackable. Can I do it? No. But can it be done and will you see it more and more as the OS is more commonly used? Yes.
Splotch, you still don't get it do you? Did I ever one time say Linux was unhackable? No, why? Because I have had a Linux box hacked in to before (it was a honey pot). But why on earth do you continue to try and equate hacking with virus? They are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS! Now, give us some valid *virus* examples. I've yet to see one. Linux boxes are hacked in to every day, for the same reasons NT boxes are hacked in to every day, because the administrators are dumb asses. The difference being, with Linux you can patch a hole yhourself and not wait on the vendor to decide if they want to put it on their priority list. MS in many cases have taken *years* to come up with security patches.
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quote:
Originally posted by SPoT:
I work in a buisness where I have to look at money every day. I have to look at costs vs. profits. To make money for my company, I have to give the best service I can to draw customers away from my competitor, or at least give then a service no one else can. Now if someone comes along and offers a better service for less, Im dead unless I adjust for the compitions product also. I have to keep up to be profitable.
No one has even tried to keep up with Microsoft, so now they are dead in the water, looking for a handout.
This is my exact complaint. I don't think M$ is offering a better service. They are forcing their inferior service on people and using their ill-gotten billions to push it on them.
What I am trying to say is that from what I have observed, M$ dose not seek to abide by the ideas of making a better product or service, their interest is in forcing competition to it's knees, kinda like a legal shake down.
Im sure in your buissness, whatever it is, competition is respected, and compeating between people should foster that sort of "one upmanship" between companies. This is a good thing, like you say it produces better products and the like.
M$ has no respect for this, and I see countless products that outshine their versions of things yet their versions remain popular. The reason they remain popular is because they forcfully discurage the use of compeating products.
For instance a while back, IE wouldent allow regualar Java to run on it so as to push M$'s compeating Java standard. Or bundling explorer into their OS and making it painfully difficult to remove. Another thing was reserving the key API's to their OS, crippling developers ability to compeate with M$. These things are not in the interest of competition, but rather a way to "trap" users.
And as for your energy and phone company Analogy, I see this as exactly what M$ is doing. Perhapse they do not have that level of expansive control yet, but they are gearing up for it. Every incarnation of their OS seems to get closer to it's goal.
The internet may not be food or water, but it is probably one of the single most revolutionary advancess in communication and the free exchange of ideas since Guttenberg's printing press. One company controling the users access and experience of this new medium would surely not be a good thing.
M$ has reserved the right to colect info on it's users, and they have a nice little agreement that can be retroactively changed by them to aid them in this goal. Please tell me how these things serve to make a better product?
Im sure in your buissness you don't go stealing your competitors ideas and then directly invest in their distruction and or dismantling. This is the sort of thing M$ likes to do. Do you go into public forums and spread bad rummers about your competitors?
Finaly, despite all this M$ is a monopoly. They have gotten so big, and so widespread that no one has a hope of compeating. So they don't need to make a better product because they have no one to "one up", in this case they just start making up rules and difrent ways to extort money from the user. Limited installs on their software, their wonderfull phone home policy, and their new introduction of spyware into thier OS.
Are any of these things in the interest of making a good product and succeding thrugh those means?
[ March 15, 2002: Message edited by: psyjax ]
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MS has gotten very large, but they built it.
They made the industry while the other guys did nothing. All of the software companys had the same chance in the begining. And when a company comes out with something revolutionary and standard breaking, they will get their moment in the sun. But the fact is that instead of creating their own product, they want to get into someone elses.
MS designs the software, so what if another version of java wont run on it. Its a MS product. They do have the right to create product that only runs with thier product, and not allow 3rd party product to run on it. What Linux product runs with windows in mind? But thats ok right?
quote:
M$ has reserved the right to colect info on it's users, and they have a nice little agreement that can be retroactively changed by them to aid them in this goal. Please tell me how these things serve to make a better product?
Another I agree on. But not that big a deal. The good part of this is it allows MS to find out what kind of hardware its OS is being run on and gives them the oppertunity to build a better OS around the hardware. The bad part is privacy. I dont like it anymore than you do, but we live with it every day. With your license plate number I can find out more than MS can with their software. I dont put anything I dont want anyone to know on my PC anyway. I wouldnt put that on anything.
quote:
Im sure in your buissness you don't go stealing your competitors ideas and then directly invest in their distruction and or dismantling. This is the sort of thing M$ likes to do. Do you go into public forums and spread bad rummers about your competitors?
Oh boy. This happens all the time in the buisness world. I saw a example of it at my company. Another company was spreading rumors of a bankruptcy to try and create a doubt in our customers minds. They went so far as to say we could be closing our doors at any time. the world stock exchange is built on speculation and rumors.
As far as ideas go, Im sure that MOST of the people that have created the software Microsoft uses were compensated. As for the others, Ideas are just that. No copywrite, no protection. Changing a product to squeek by the copywrite happens all the time too. Its not fair or right, but its not illegal.
And the biggest point methinks all of you are missing is that you dont NEED Microsoft. You dont NEED Linux. You dont NEED a computer. Nothing is forced upon you cuz you dont NEED any of it. Its your choise. You guys chose not to use MS products for various reasons, but in my view, those reasons arent important enough to stop me from using it and some of these reasons would put millons out of work with no place to go. That is good for no one.
My reasons for saying Fuck Microsoft are the bundled software I have to hack out of it to make it run better, and save drive space. Thats all, well maybe not all, but the most I have to deal with. That and XP, the most usless bit o' software to crawl out from under a rock.
Alrighty, Linux Viruses.
Do I know an example. No, I dont. I dont need one. Today, tomorrow, next year, it will happen. How do I know? Cuz some people are twisted. If I look hard enough, Ill find one, or I can find someone to write it for me, or givin enough motivation, Ill write one myself. How hard it is makes no difference. The virus point is about as usless as the stability issue. 75% of all PC users will never see one, or a drive will fail before they do. My point on it was that nothing is secure.
[ March 15, 2002: Message edited by: SPoT ]
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quote:
Originally posted by SPoT:
What Linux product runs with windows in mind? But thats ok right?
Samba? Wine? Konqueror? Xanim? VNC? OpenOffice? Gnumeric? Koffice? FAT/FAT32/NTFS file system support? Upon installation it takes care to preserve Windows if installed and set it up as a boot menu choice? (I can continue if you wish) Not to mention the incredible difficulty in making said OS try to interact with Winblows because MS keeps everything so much of a secret you have to reverse engineer the load of garbage to make any of the above possible. Most OS vendors publish as much detail as they can to gain interoperability with their product. Not M$, they don't want interoperability, they want total destruction of anything not M$.
quote:
And the biggest point methinks all of you are missing is that you dont NEED Microsoft. You dont NEED Linux. You dont NEED a computer. Nothing is forced upon you cuz you dont NEED any of it. Its your choise. You guys chose not to use MS products for various reasons, but in my view, those reasons arent important enough to stop me from using it and some of these reasons would put millons out of work with no place to go. That is good for no one.
What? Well you are correct on the first couple of things. We don't NEED any of it. But if M$ has it's way, if we WANT it, you'll only have one choice. Some of us prefer not to choose M$ products.
quote:
My reasons for saying Fuck Microsoft are the bundled software I have to hack out of it to make it run better, and save drive space. Thats all, well maybe not all, but the most I have to deal with. That and XP, the most usless bit o' software to crawl out from under a rock.
You've taken the first step. You may be happier if you move on to step 2, 3, and 4.
quote:
Alrighty, Linux Viruses.
Do I know an example. No, I dont. I dont need one. Today, tomorrow, next year, it will happen. How do I know? Cuz some people are twisted. If I look hard enough, Ill find one, or I can find someone to write it for me, or givin enough motivation, Ill write one myself. How hard it is makes no difference. The virus point is about as usless as the stability issue. 75% of all PC users will never see one, or a drive will fail before they do. My point on it was that nothing is secure.
Maybe if you actually used and learned about OSs other than M$ you might realize that you don't have to be convinced that viruses need to be a part of your life. I've already explained why it can never be a widespread problem. Primary virus stopper in the *NIX world is a good security model, and much diversity in system and user applications and programs. With microsoft, every machine has the same code base and the same vulnerabilities. So as soon as you create a virus it can wipe out the entire fleet. several of the past viruses passed along via a worm email (Melissa, I-LOVE-YOU, and their many variants) *could* have done real damage, but luckily for MS people the virus writer was not related to Bin Laden.
Hacking in to a system is something completely different than a virus as we've finally agreed and any machine connected to a network is vulnerable regardless of OS.
[ March 15, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]
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I dont worry about viruses. I have had them, got rid of them, didnt lose anything important. I have also had mutiple hard drive, RAM, BIOS and motherboard failures. The loss of data is something that can happen at any time. You dont need a virus for it. And all a virus really is is an automated set of commands. These commands can be written into any code on any OS. The Linux comunity seems to be more concerned about creating than destroying at this point and time, but viruses will emerge. Count on it. Its not that it cant be done, its just that they havent hit yet.
I didnt mean Windows products that run on Linux, I ment Linux products that run on Windows. And the answer is you cant. If you change the Linux code to DOS, its now a DOS program. They arent compatable. But Microsoft is expected to create a IE browser for Linux? This is an agument in the Monopoly case. MS has no skill in the Linux operating system, they are very interestd in it for profit though.
I have used Linux.
Mandrake 7.0 Had a horrible time. It was fun to learn something new, and I had to learn or it was no go. I liked the way it ran when I was done, but there were a few points that made me decide to drop it. Its not a bad OS, it just doesnt do anything I want it to do.
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Spot.
All well and good, but all of what M$ has done, and you seem to agree to some extent, is exercize some ruthless buisness tactics. This does not mean they are good software makers, or that their product is indeed supperior, it just means they know how to screw people over.
I think it is a bit idealistic to say that if someone comes out with something new in this M$ dominated world that it will have it's moment in the sun. The fact is that they will, and have been attacked by M$.
M$ does not compeat it divides and conquers. It is anti-competative in every sense of the word, and because of that it is a monopoly. M$ has infringed on copyrights, and weaseld their way out of some, but not others. The Java issiue for example eventually led to a pretty successful lawsuit from Sun.
As far as 3rd party compatability and choosing what and what not to let run on their OS, M$ does what they do in this area in order to force users into using their products or versions of things. Perhapse this is a logical buisness manuver, but if Ford made 90% of the cars then restricted it's cars to only using Ford gasoline weather or not the competition had better gas, I would say that is a rather monopolistic, unfair, and preditory manuver.
In the end, I just don't see how, in M$'s case, lack of ethics and underhanded tactics neceserly means that M$ makes a superior product and deserves the position it enjoys.
Furthermore, M$ controling the computer industry, and one of the largest areas of communication, is definetly something that no one wants. If, like you say, software is just a product, then it should behave as such. You should actualy own the thing and not have it behave as if you are being privaleged to use it. Ill be damnd if I buy a can of beens in the supermarket and have it call home to verfy it's registration and report what kind of kithcen I have (http://smile.gif)
M$ shouldent have the right to have such an insane licence policy. By this, I don't mean the law, but rather the public. People should be able to say WTF? No way, Im gonna go use this other OS. But the fact is, most don't see that as a choice, since they "need" to use XP, 2k or whatever.
So is it legal? Ya. Showld people have to put up with it? NO fucking way! But can they really do anything about it when their work or whatever forces them to use it? No.
So... this argument probably will go on ad nauseem. I think we both see the same thing, but interpret it in entirely diffrent manners. Personaly, I see nothing good coming from M$ now, or in the future. Id rather stick with companies that are actually trying to "inovate" to use M$'s term.
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quote:
Originally posted by SPoT:
I dont worry about viruses. I have had them, got rid of them, didnt lose anything important. I have also had mutiple hard drive, RAM, BIOS and motherboard failures. The loss of data is something that can happen at any time.
You've obviously never worked in a corporate environment. I can't tell you how many dollars worth of time and software that I have personally wasted in trying to stay ahead of this bull shit on M$ networks. The point is, you were lucky. A hard drive crashing is a lot different than the damage a virus does.
In one case a while back one person at our company received one of the forementioned viruses, it traversed the MS Exchange global address book and sent itself to everyone else in the company, other dumb shit users (and dumb shit IT techs (MCSEs)) opened the email after being told over and over and over never to open an attachment they are not sure of. It started traversing the entire company address book again until it brought our exchange servers to their knees. Now, that wouldn't have been bad if it didn't also infect several executable programs on each persons machine, then proceed to wipe out all *.JPG, and many other file types. It wouldn't have been bad if it only wiped out the files on their local drives but it traversed any mapped network drives on our servers.
Believe me, it was a couple of days before we got our web development and graphics shops back up and running and there was a percentage of graphics work that was never recovered. I don't know what the total damage was but you can be sure it was in the millions at my company alone. I basically had to write my own program and install it in the network logon scripts to go clean everyones registry so the virus wouldn't execute every time they started their machine or logged in, giving virus vendors time to come up with a new DAT file and the support techs time to get the updated virus software installed (the latest virus software would not detect the virus we got at the time we got it, later in the day they came out with a new DAT file, just when we needed it). Thanks for nothing Microsoft!
And *then* to add insult to injury, Microsoft sent their auditors to our company and found that we were about a half million short on software licenses (not because we didn't pay for all said software, but because we couldn't *prove* we paid for said softare because our purchasing department did a poor job of keeping up with all the different licensing models and keeping all of the MS hologram seals). So what does my company do? Continue to put up with the shit, that's what.
quote:
And all a virus really is is an automated set of commands. These commands can be written into any code on any OS. The Linux comunity seems to be more concerned about creating than destroying at this point and time, but viruses will emerge. Count on it. Its not that it cant be done, its just that they havent hit yet.
No, you continue to be wrong. A virus is a program that when run, attaches itself to other programs, that when run attach themselves to other programs. And they are usually designed to cause damage. If a user executed a program containing a virus, said program can not infect other programs because the user does not have permission to modify system files. Period.
quote:
I didnt mean Windows products that run on Linux, I ment Linux products that run on Windows. And the answer is you cant. If you change the Linux code to DOS, its now a DOS program. They arent compatable. But Microsoft is expected to create a IE browser for Linux? This is an agument in the Monopoly case. MS has no skill in the Linux operating system, they are very interestd in it for profit though.
Oh, you mean like half (probably more) of the Open Source softrware out there? OpenOffice, GCC, WU-FTPD, Apache, PHP, vi, etc, etc (want me to continue?).
quote:
I have used Linux.
Mandrake 7.0 Had a horrible time. It was fun to learn something new, and I had to learn or it was no go. I liked the way it ran when I was done, but there were a few points that made me decide to drop it. Its not a bad OS, it just doesnt do anything I want it to do.
If after giving it a serious attempt (usually takes many months of serious effort before you really latch on to the power) you come to this conclusion. That is fine, it's your choice. Isn't having a choice a wonderful feeling?
[ March 16, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]
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Coolness (http://smile.gif)
Just so you know, I dont agree with the practices MS has. Im just saying its big buisness. It has been done this way since long before we were born, and MS isnt the only one doing it.
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Maybe long before you were born. I am as old as Bill Gates (yes, I'm still a young sprout). I just love people who say "Well, that's the way things have always been done around here, and by golly that's the way we're going to continue to do things!". What kind of world would this be if this were the norm and not the exception?
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Hey,
quote:
Originally posted by SPoT:
I dont worry about viruses. I have had them, got rid of them, didnt lose anything important. I have also had mutiple hard drive, RAM, BIOS and motherboard failures. The loss of data is something that can happen at any time. You dont need a virus for it. And all a virus really is is an automated set of commands. These commands can be written into any code on any OS. The Linux comunity seems to be more concerned about creating than destroying at this point and time, but viruses will emerge. Count on it. Its not that it cant be done, its just that they havent hit yet.
Nothing is completely immune but linux is pretty much immune. Think about it. How long would it take for a virus to find the correct password for a specific linux superuser? Many months or possibly years. Can you imagine having to check "every" possible combination of characters using "every" possible password length. Then of course if the system is shutdown or rebooted before it finds the password the virus is effectively dead.
quote:
I didnt mean Windows products that run on Linux, I ment Linux products that run on Windows. And the answer is you cant. If you change the Linux code to DOS, its now a DOS program. They arent compatable. But Microsoft is expected to create a IE browser for Linux? This is an agument in the Monopoly case. MS has no skill in the Linux operating system, they are very interestd in it for profit though.
Oh you mean like Staroffice, Mozilla or maybe the Gimp just to mention a few. Actually you are both right and wrong in your statement. Yes the ones I mentioned above are cross compiled to many different platforms but the point is they do work on many different platforms.
Who in the world would even want IE on Linux (or any other OS for that matter) I can't imagine but if MS took the IE C++ code I am sure they could easily cross compile it to work on Linux. C/C++ works on, I believe, every platform.
quote:
I have used Linux.
Mandrake 7.0 Had a horrible time. It was fun to learn something new, and I had to learn or it was no go. I liked the way it ran when I was done, but there were a few points that made me decide to drop it.
If you have used Linux that how is it that you keep going on about Linux virii? You should know as well as anyone that the chances are less than .01% of that happening. As compared to Windows having a 10% chance over any 12 month period of gaining a virus.
Look here (http://ccbill.com/news/oct_2001/oct_2001.htm) for confirmation of that. Although I must say that may not be the best source since they seem to be trying to sell virishield but it was the first one I found.
quote:
Its not a bad OS, it just doesnt do anything I want it to do.
Ok now you have truely peaked my interests. What is it that you want to do that Mandrake (even an old version like 7.0) did not do? BTW Mandrake 8.1 is almost 100% graphically user configurable just like windows.
quote:
You said in an earlier post
MS designs the software, so what if another version of java wont run on it. Its a MS product. They do have the right to create product that only runs with thier product, and not allow 3rd party product to run on it.
No MS does not have the right to block 3rd party products. They don't have to build their OS specifically to work with the 3rd party products but they do not have the right to attempt to block a 3rd party product. That is exactly what a software monopoly is.
Also one more question. You have stated several times you hate Netscape. Does that also mean you hate Mozilla? The interface of Mozilla is very simular to that of Netscape. However Mozilla has all the power and none of the bloat. Mozilla is the complete engine that Netscape runs on. The Gecko engine with the interface is mozilla. It runs circles around IE and Netscape. I use Mozilla 0.9.9 under Windows and 0.9.4 under Linux (have not yet downloaded the upgrade for Linux as I have a slow dialup connection).
Anyway just my 2 cents worth.
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Ouchy Void. That must have indeed been destructive. I recieved the Chernobyl virus, and it had started rewriting my BIOS before I got to it. Very close that one. however, we use UNIX at work. I dont think there are any of those, but once again, its possible
And true, just cuz its been this way doesnt mean we cant change it, but it will take alot. But Im content to sit back and watch it shake itself apart. Then having learned something, pick up the pieces and start again.
Centurian
Im not going on about virii, lol. Im just saying that it is possible, and it will happen.
As I said, I use my PC for entertainment. I surf the web with an easy Browser, I play games like UT (I KNOW!) and Diablo2, and running them with voice in the background mostly socializing, not much to do at 2am when work is over. I beta test games, such as EA's Motor City Online(Crap since release) and the EA's Network Play System. But most of all I just tweak for entertainment, and give out tips to my friends. I loved this about Linux. But I couldnt run the other stuff due to incompatibility. And forget getting my freinds on Linux, lol. They dont even know how to change thier screen res. And dont even ask about my wifes PC experiance......
The next time I do an FDISK, I was planning on installing a distro. Im just not sure wich one.
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Hey,
If your planning to install a distro I would suggest one of these.
1. Mandrake (very easy install, Full set of graphical tools) I use this one.
2. SUSE I have heard it is even easier than Mandrake but have no personal experience with it. Also SUSE isn't freely available for download.
3. RedHat (very easy install, some graphical tools) I tried it but prefer Mandrake.
I also recommend you setup a dual boot system because not all windows games will run under Winex at this point. Although you could use VMWare. From what I have heard it is awesome and will run any OS virtually.
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Ill check them out. I have heard goo things about SUSE. A friend is supposed to burn me a disk, but he's been out of work with a broken wrist.
Oh yeah, I plan on dual booting, my wife will never figure out Linux.
Ill check out the browsers mentioned here too.
Thx!
Hardware support?
Soyo K7VTA-Pro VIA chipset, running 133mhz
GeForce 2 MX 400
Sblaster PCI 512
HP CD-RW 9100
Intel 2100 DSL (Uh Oh, its internal!)
and a belkin generic USB hub.
Think Ill run into any problems with those? Mandrake was hell to configure for my TNT2 Ultra and the VIA DMA. I did manage to get a Lucent Winmodem working in Mandrake, but it didnt work very well, lol.
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Hey,
quote:
Originally posted by SPoT:
Ill check them out. I have heard goo things about SUSE. A friend is supposed to burn me a disk, but he's been out of work with a broken wrist.
Oh yeah, I plan on dual booting, my wife will never figure out Linux.
Ill check out the browsers mentioned here too.
Thx!
Hardware support?
Soyo K7VTA-Pro VIA chipset, running 133mhz
GeForce 2 MX 400
Sblaster PCI 512
HP CD-RW 9100
Intel 2100 DSL (Uh Oh, its internal!)
and a belkin generic USB hub.
Think Ill run into any problems with those? Mandrake was hell to configure for my TNT2 Ultra and the VIA DMA. I did manage to get a Lucent Winmodem working in Mandrake, but it didnt work very well, lol.
Don't know about the DSL but the rest looks fine. I have a Geforce 2 MX w/32 megs of ram and it works great.
As for your wife using linux if you setup the KDE it looks alot like Windows and works simular in many ways.
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As far as my wife and kids go. With Windows I got tired of hearing "Dad, my report won't print, what's this error mean?" and I reply "I don't know, read the message, I thought Windows was supposed to be easy". I switched them to Linux and I don't have these problems. It doesn't crash, the stuff works. For those point and clickers who do nothing more than email/surf/Office it is equally as easy as Windows but without the headaches. They surf all their web sites, they read their mail in Evolution (which is very much like the full blown Outlook but without the little virus problem). I was concerned that it would be more of a hassle for them as well. I have found that just the opposite is true. And I have more time to respond to these forums because I'm not out fixing their Windows errors.
I've only got one thing that keeps me from getting rid of one Windows machine and that is "RealFlight G2" an R/C flight simulator. I paid $300 for that software and it has this insane copy protection. When I try to install it under VMware it thinks there is a debugger running and will not install. Even though I've purchased this software I would have to crack it to use it the way I want to. Too bad there is not a Linux version. But rather than say "Linux sucks" because I can't run my G2 sim, I use Linux for everything I can. As soon as enough of us switch from MS to Linux there "will" be the demand and these vendors will have no choice but to port if they want to stay in business. We may have to put up with fewer "commercial" apps early on but the more that make the switch, the more software will come. Once MS is no longer the "majority" desktop OS we won't have to worry about our Operating system spying on us because of the motivations of the company behind it. Sure there will still be commercial apps with these motivations but it will be basically non-existent for the majority of users. And it will be more stable, with "MUCH less" potential of getting hit with a virus.
[ March 16, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]
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quote:
Originally posted by VoidMain:
As far as my wife and kids go. With Windows I got tired of hearing "Dad, my report won't print, what's this error mean?" and I reply "I don't know, read the message, I thought Windows was supposed to be easy". I switched them to Linux and I don't have these problems. It doesn't crash, the stuff works. For those point and clickers who do nothing more than email/surf/Office it is equally as easy as Windows but without the headaches. They surf all their web sites, they read their mail in Evolution (which is very much like the full blown Outlook but without the little virus problem). I was concerned that it would be more of a hassle for them as well. I have found that just the opposite is true. And I have more time to respond to these forums because I'm not out fixing their Windows errors.
I've only got one thing that keeps me from getting rid of one Windows machine and that is "RealFlight G2" an R/C flight simulator. I paid $300 for that software and it has this insane copy protection. Too bad there is not a Linux version. When I try to install it under VMware it thinks there is a debugger running and will not run. As soon of enough of us switch from MS to Linux there "will" be the demand and these vendors will have no choice but to port if they want to stay in business. We may have to put up with fewer "commercial" apps early on but the more that make the switch, the more software will come.
[ March 16, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]
This is good. I agree totally.
Why can't the bickerers just let alone. VoidMain only posts when he has something to *say*.
I expect to see a lot more bickering here now, btw, can't let somebody else have the last word now can we? ;)
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VoidMan:
Im intrigued. A $300 dollar game? hoe good is it?
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Well, I wouldn't consider it a game. It is a simulartor for R/C aircraft and probably as good at doing it's job as a 10 million dollar mechanical 767 simulator used to train airline pilots (well, probably not quite (http://smile.gif) ). At any rate it is *very* realistic and I use it to practice new aerobatics before trying them on my $2500 airplane. Crashing on the simulator is much less expensive. Check out http://www.realflight.com (http://www.realflight.com) if you want more info.
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WOW! That's pretty impressive. I used to fly R/C planes a long time ago. But I was never THAT into it.
Probably the coolest plane I ever owned was a Balsa Wood Spirit Of St. Lewis I built from a kit, But that one flew on strings (http://smile.gif)
As far as actual R/C's I owned a preaty cheep learning one and never made it much farther. Pretty cool program tho.
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Yeah it's a lot of fun. I just got back into it less than two years ago when my son brought in a Tower Hobbies magazine and said he was interested. I used to have those COX line controlled myself when I was a kid, but none of them ever lived very long. I found it interesting that they are still popular (but much more advanced). I like the R/C better though, more freedom and size is virutually unlimited. We now have around 8 planes, currently the biggest is the 27% Midwest CAP 232 with a 44cc gas engine and an 80" wing span. Our big one is puny compared to some in our club though.
And if you are more interested in it check out http://www.rconline.com (http://www.rconline.com) where you can get a lot of information (and usually some cool pictures).
[ March 16, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]
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I have to used *nix, i even used "calc.exe" in windows, talk about state of the art, im even delving into freecell, wow, those wacky cells, beat me everytime...
im learning to play pong on my calculator, and i believe that windblows rules MAN!! yea...
id bet no1 here can do this => (http://smile.gif)
can some1 give me information on how to format my CPU and overclock my CD ROM, also, need alot of help in this cmd: rm -rf /bin/laden
also, im thinking of upgrading my 486 towards a state of the art pentium CPU, maybe even Intel Inside.
Please help me in questions, if you can help, ill send you my cat through the mail inside a envelope with a nude picture of my mum.
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You're hired! That's good stuff! (http://smile.gif)
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no arguments there, i reckoned from your name that i would probably agree with you in the end ;) sometimes harsh words an interesting discussion make though :D
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You don't need a GUI for a web server, who told you otherwise? Of course you don't even need a GUI for MS IIS, but the MS OS requires a GUI to even run a server at all. On any other OS, GUI is not necessary. None of my web servers have a GUI running, or have ever had a GUI running.
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:confused: well i knew it didn't need a GUI, nothing needs a GUI (oh, unless it's a deliberately engineered dependency, in a closed source system) to work, and since a GUI uses resources itself, it's better not to run one, if you can and want to.
I'm a bit of a hypocrite here, since i just installed Enlightenment on my desktop! :D it's nice, but once i get the hang of it i think i will probably revert to sawfich again...