Stop Microsoft
All Things Microsoft => Microsoft Hardware => Topic started by: lazygamer on 25 June 2002, 08:24
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Ok I heard hear that the X-BOX is pretty much a Windows system with a P3 700. Question is, do you have all that point and click desktop stuff(never used one). Ok what about it's reliability?
I've always assumed that video game systems are so reliable because:
1:All the hardware can be narrowed to one small point of power, no need to deal with compatibility stuff.
2:There is no operating system.... well maybe just a super simplistic one. So the hardware doesn't have to worry about running this operating system, it only has to worry about being a slave to the game inserted.
Anything im missing? Wouden't a Playstation still be more reliable then a Linux running PC?
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The X-Box doesn't have a desktop since it's not really a computer. It does run the Windows 2000 kernel and about reliability...well, just remember it is a MS designed product. And the playstation would be more reliable than a PC running linux since it was just designed to run playstation games. But have you ever tried a playstation running linux? I know there's a russian company that ported it to the PS, but i don't remember who it was...
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hmm, i own an xbox. i can answers these Q's. ok the gui on it is menu based. the menu's are represented in 3d. and the gui is green. one of the funnest part of the xbox is the fact that it can rip music cds to a sound track./*hmm violating the dmca with the xbox, wee fun*/ the sound track can be played in games that support it. just becuase something runs the windows kernel doesn't always mean the gui will be the same. ok as for its reliabilty, me and one of my friend managed to play a system link game for like 14 hours/*halo can be beat on normal in 12 hours we keep on finding funny ways to shoot each other :eek: :mad: :eek: */ the versions of games that were crashing beta versions. but it does have some problem's like the cd straching on. most people will flame the xbox for being a microsoft product. in my eyes it proof that they are a lazy ass company that most of the time chooses not to do better with dictator ship managment. if they were to replace of the uperlevel management and instill the programers with the linux way of thinking "its not done till no faster will it run"(c) they would probably become a much better company but that *obviosly* won't happen. the next best thing would be the latter motto. and they lost 100 bucks on my xbox so atleast that is good
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They lost 100 bucks? What, you didn't buy any games for it?
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Would a PS/2 running linux be even more reliable? (There is a thread about Linux on PS/2 somewhere).
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PS/2 Linux conversion kit:
http://forum.fuckmicrosoft.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=000308 (http://forum.fuckmicrosoft.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=000308)
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err, well then i guess they only lost ~50 on it. owell.
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Hehe. Well I wouden't be suprised if MS tried to make the X-box alot more reliable then Windows. The console market knows that a crash is very very rare. Your more likely to get a crash from accidentaly bumping the system then you are from the game itself. Well then again perhaps CD based systems are immune to this, the cartridges weren't.
Also, X-box games are likely more optimized and bugfree then Computer games, thus helping it deal with the MS coding. It all comes down to game history. You cannot patch a console game. Thus when it goes out the door, there should be virtually no bugs, at the worst there should be some rare non-crucial bugs. This is another reason why consoles are so reliable.
Now chances are that the X-box greatly outperforms a 700mhz PIII PC, consoles can use their hardware so optimally that they don't need upgrading. Sadly, all this potential power is partly wasted because it's Microsoft. Can you imagine a Linux made X-box(yes I know there is no company, but imagine if there was)? That would be powerful...
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It may greatly outpreform a PII 700.. But new comps are getting better and better.
I think a P4/AMD Athlon XP 2ghz/2000+ with 256mb ddr ram, 60 gb hd and a Geforce 4 Ti GPU would outpreform an Xbox, and those the specs of new computers you can get in the store. I've seen the techdemo's of a GeForce 3 Ti. MUCH better than anything you can get on XXXcox.
And WTF is up with every company having an X in it's product name. XXXcox, OSX, WinXPloited.
And OSX is the only great product in that list...
[ June 25, 2002: Message edited by: Interscope ]
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dude, an xbox supposedly pulls about 8 gigaflops, thats over half the power of the new dual g4's at 15 gigaflops/*hehehe, i compared two cpu's of different architictre the *correct* way and imagine a beowulf of those/*imbeded comments wow, i just stole slashdots' way of saying things*/ */ besides nvidia had a hand in the xbox, im suprised that they used a x86 processor in the xbox, its microsoft go figure. godly consoles use ppc and mips procossers. if we want to break it down this way. all the ps1 ps2 and n64 are is assend sgi workstation./*i think they used a costimized version of mips for it*/ and all the game cube is, is a 604e from ibm/*mighta costimized don't know, or renamed it*/
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The cool thing about consoles is not the power. It's the fact that it is a set in stone system that will pe supported and developed for, for a very long time. I mean, look at the longevity of the PS1, the NES, and others.
Those consoles lived far beyond the time the technology was outdated and still they remained popular. This is something I like about consoles, they abide by an admirable development standard found only in the early days of computing.
Back in the 80's a new upgrade in hardware or software would only become required once the full potential of all current products had been exausted. I mean I play games on my dual g4 that wont run on lower end computers and think to myself "If this thing were made properly, it wouldent require this much overhead." and it's true.
Programmers, especially game programmers, are soooooo lazy now adays! They slap shit together, leave it full of bugs, make it slow and unoptomized, then expect you to pick up their slack with your hardware.
This is why a prefer console gaming to PC gaming. Consoles are made to last, and force developers to truely exploit the systems capabilities, and exert a higher level of quality control. Because the console is so unforgiving to mistakes it encurages less mistakes.
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Is this "sloppy programmer syndrome" the result of technology advancing faster each year?
If processors only increased by 25mhz each year, things would be much diffrent.
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when the peek perforance that can be taken from a peice of silicon it hit, that should be sweet. coders will have to program to run on the chips and since the only way to go faster won't be to go taller/*faster mhz*/ it will be to go wider/*smp*/ we will see some interesting code, and that event will probably be the end of windows as we know it. but then agian i don't think that linux scales past 32 processors right now? sgi is working on it but that take a while. owell. besides im waiting to apple to realases a quad processor tower and a dual procosser laptop/*that are "affordable"*/. they havn't announced it but it should be the NeXT step right?/*pun intended*/
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There are many Linux Supercomputer clusters with well over 1000 CPUs.
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umm clusters, what i was talking about was something like an origin 3000 or sunfire 15k or e10k/*i don't think that monolithic kernels run too good on 100+processor machines, it would have to wraped around a micro kernel kinda like the hurd i think, but im probably talking out my ass*/. not networked clutsters. but linux does do clustering quite well from what i have heard/*my friend is trying to build a beowulfe from 486's*/
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Well, it looks like the 2.4 kernel can go up to 64 CPUs running on a 64 bit platform (UltraSparc etc).
http://www.uwsg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0101.0/0601.html (http://www.uwsg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0101.0/0601.html)
I also found a message where someone hacked the kernel to go to 128 CPUs although they say 4 CPUs is the "sweet spot". The biggest machine I've run it on was a Dell 6300 with 4 Xeon processors and 4GB of RAM. It ran pretty well. I've run it on some old Sparcs as well and would have liked to run it on our 10 processor Enterprise 4000 but it was utilized 24x7.
I have set up a PVM cluster here at my house. Pretty cool, but you have to code your apps accordingly. And of course LVM is cool for web clustering, but you meant SMP (I did know that by the way, was just trying to slip in some FUD and you found me out).
[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]
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yeah, 64, last time it was 32, owell, i wonder what linux will max out at or if they will get it to scale to the Nth
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Whoops, I edited my message and added to it since your last reply. Certainly some hefty overhauling will have to be done to be serious about a large number of CPUs in the SMP kernel. But I'm sure it will happen. Maybe now that Sun is getting into the Linux game... 3.x?
[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]
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well, i can't wait till some one gets off there ass and uses embeded linux for a console. god think of all the marketable buzz words you could use heres my list. rtos, smp, gpu, gnu, mips/*im sure thats what make the ps2 stand up and kickass*/, scsi3, 1394, usb 2.0, framebuffer, glx, ddr, mesa, numa, crossbar, glue/*wait, this is starting to sound like a small supercomputer rather then a game console, owell, i guest a realitly center would play quake pretty good*/. think about that. this would all be tranparent to the person that cared little, the just would get a better console service from it. hell, to make it boot faster they could mod the linux kernel to boot off an ultrafast nonviolatile memory/*like the riscos, it used to boot in like 20 seconds and its a full computer not a console*/ and be updatable.
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ACTUALLY, A Linux powered console could have one special thing. It's Linux, so modified, user friendly DOS and WINDOZE emulators would be possible to include.
So if you feel there's not enough games for the system right now, you can play some other stuff on it to!
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it could have an interface where the code could actually be modified on a per user basis, similar to the yaroze black playstation idea, but taken to its logical conclusion.
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quote:
Originally posted by lazygamer:
ACTUALLY, A Linux powered console could have one special thing. It's Linux, so modified, user friendly DOS and WINDOZE emulators would be possible to include.
So if you feel there's not enough games for the system right now, you can play some other stuff on it to!
They tried this. it was called the Indrema. It flopped. Big time.
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did they actally make any of them, like it floped and was obscure but there are some aroung like the turbographics-16, didn't sell too many of those