Stop Microsoft
Operating Systems => Linux and UNIX => Topic started by: lazygamer on 2 July 2002, 06:49
-
No matter what Linux has against it, I doubt it has anything to make it not worth switching to(from Wind0ze anyways).
Still, we need to be honest and present REAL reasons why Linux sucks, or at least semi-sucks. None of this XP loo-sah BS, im talking about real issues, problems, quirks and blahs that everyone(or alot of people) must put up with to rock the house with Linux.
So were not talking too much about pros or disadvantages here. Anything Linux VS Win 9X issues mentioned must either be:
Linux is worse then Windows in this respect
Linux is equal to Windows in this respect
Linux is somewhat better then Windows in this respect, but the issue/disadvantage/problem still exsists.
So get talking. Oh and disregard what XP loo-sah says. Im sure he will have PLENTY to say. (http://smile.gif)
-
I really like using the console to do everything. I dont like having to search through windows and menus for configurations and stuff, but... There is a few things that the GUI's (not Linux) could/should put in for Graphic configuration for newbs to use. Stuff like the resolution and colour depth... those are the only two i can think of, because i use command line for as many things as possible.
On another note: I was thinking about rightin' up a thing like 'The death of a thousand strings' to compare win98 versus RH Linux with KDE 3...(depends on how lazy i am)
-
quote:
Oh and disregard what XP loo-sah says. Im sure he will have PLENTY to say.
Hahahahahahahahahhahah
Some of the many flaws of Linux:
Linux's development model has a critical advantage over Windows's development model. Since Linux isn't controlled by a single entity, we have Linux fragmenting into competing distributions which creates inconsistency. (GNOME and KDE for instance)
Linux is definitely ahead of where Windows is on the desktop front, and it is doubtful windows will ever catch up.
Adding and removing programs in Linux is easy, since there are no consistant install/uninstall programs such as under Windows.
Configuring hardware under Linux is also a hassle. To illustrate this, let us look at the steps required to install nvidia's geforce drivers under Windows and then Linux.
Windows:
Download the appropriate driver package for your version of windows.
Double click the program, hit next a few times.
Reboot.
Linux:
Download the RPM...
Install the RPM.
Linux has good commercial desktop support. When it comes to graphics and video editing, web page design, 3d modeling, and office programs, the support just is great with programs like mozilla composer and sun staroffice, koffice, abiword, gimp, gNumeric, Dia, ect, ect and you're happy with brilliant open source alternatives.
Finally, especially from the price, there is lots Linux offers that Windows doesn't. The fact is, people don't mind paying for something if it's worth it, and that's why Linux doesn't overtake Windows is a expensive and but crappy product.
[EDIT: Had to cencor our properganda, just had too, its my job in life]
[ July 05, 2002: Message edited by: Ex Eleven / b0b ]
[ July 05, 2002: Message edited by: Ex Eleven / b0b ]
-
well... that was quit a lot of words for such a lowly creature, but it didnt really tell us anything. Next you will be bitching about binary because it gives you too many options.
[ July 01, 2002: Message edited by: Master of Reality / Bob ]
-
Damn, everything XP Luser said is a + for Linux in my book. Frankly, I am glad there are choices in GUIs and distros. Some people like Gnome, some people like KDE, some people like WindowMaker, some people like, FVWM, some people like BlackBox, some people like Lesstiff, some people like Openlook, some people like Mandrake, some people like SuSe, some people like RedHat, some people like Debian, some people like ELX, some people like Slackware. Hmmm, I have a choice.
And you don't have to reboot when you install the Nvidia drivers dumb ass. You only have to reboot in Windows.
-
Ok well is this true everyone? Does it hold true for all distros? What about some of the more users friendly/compatible ones.
Also, it doesn't seem hard to do. I mean if your just typing a few command line things that's ok. Now the question is, do you have less chance of incompatibility or bugs using your NVIDIA installation compared to the Windows one?
-
you dont have to redboot any distro of linux. You dont even have to edit the Xfree86 file in most. Just need to run Xconfigurator. I havent used Nvidia, so i cant comment any further on it.
-
I have the Geforce2 and I bet it took all of 30 seconds to download and install the RPMS. Gee, wonder how long it takes most Windows Lusers after their system throws up all over them with the BSOD?
-
comercial desktop, try ximain, you cocksucker. are you stupid or what, haven't you caught the drift that your not wanted, o and comerical support. try pro-e,
-
pro-e?? what is that?
-
i think its a very very expensive cad solution
-
I know someone who uses that in windows with a couple GB of RAM at work, and complains about it all the time.
[ July 01, 2002: Message edited by: Master of Reality / Bob ]
-
Shall we put this discussion into historical analogy?
Windows is like living under Stalin in 1940's Russia. You do things wrong....you die. You do things right....you die.
MAC's are like living under Hitler in 1940's Germany. "You will do things our way...or you will simply not do them."
Linux is like 1940's America. We are free...We are open to everyone....we don't do everything as good as you other people in this world yet, but DAMN, give us a good war and we will get over this depression.
My apologies for the analogies.
Sleeping Dog
-
I think Linux is more like Canada... there isnt that much crime in the Linux world and there is even more freedom in canada. I could have proven my point better if i could have found a link to a certain place.
-
Originally posted by Windows XP User #5225982375:
Since Linux isn't controlled by a single entity, we have Linux fragmenting into competing distributions which creates inconsistency. We also see redundant projects in Linux (GNOME and KDE for instance)
hmmm. i'm pretty dog-on new to linux, but that sounds to me like "freedom of choice", something i happen to be rather fond of rather than having WinXP, IE6 and MSM forcefully shoved down my throat.
Linux is definitely not where Windows is on the desktop front, and it is doubtful it will ever catch up.
...your point being?
Some problems with desktop Linux:
Adding and removing programs in Linux is a chore, since there are no consistant install/uninstall programs such as under Windows.
well, i expect to get bombed for this one, but i i agree. not with install/uninstall necessarily, rather i'm wondering WHY IN THE HELL, in the 21st century, we even need to deal with a command line in day to day operations? this is something i have a hard time grasping about linux. 2 mouse clicks is faster than dealing with a keyboard and command line, so what's the point? yes, i WANT the command line functionality for whenever and whatever i want to use it for, but why the hell does linux seem to depend on it so much for trivial operations that could be handled far faster with a GUI? that's the whole point of a GUI, is it not? to paint a pretty interface and make things faster. why waste time at a command line? my time is valuable to me.
Finally, aside from the price, there is nothing Linux offers that Windows doesn't. The fact is, people don't mind paying for something if it's worth it, and that's why Linux doesn't overtake Windows; it's a free but crappy product.
fact: wrong wrong wrong! *MARKETING* is exactly why MS is far in the lead as far as desktops go. you put the shoe on the other foot and it would be wintendo that'd be left in the dust - long, long, LONG ago. the cabooses follow the engine, and the engine is piloted by MS. you go right ahead and be a caboose if ya want.
-
quote:
Linux is definitely not where Windows is on the desktop front, and it is doubtful it will ever catch up
Well that's ok, there's a diffrence between quality desktop and mass market desktop.
quote:
well, i expect to get bombed for this one, but i i agree. not with install/uninstall necessarily, rather i'm wondering WHY IN THE HELL, in the 21st century, we even need to deal with a command line in day to day operations? this is something i have a hard time grasping about linux. 2 mouse clicks is faster than dealing with a keyboard and command line, so what's the point? yes, i WANT the command line functionality for whenever and whatever i want to use it for, but why the hell does linux seem to depend on it so much for trivial operations that could be handled far faster with a GUI? that's the whole point of a GUI, is it not? to paint a pretty interface and make things faster. why waste time at a command line? my time is valuable to me.
Hey that's cool, once again were helping to reveal the hidden downsides of Linux. Now what distro are you using? Whether your using a suposedly user friendly one is important. What about these things like KDE and GNOME? Perhaps your just not using a GUI like these?
I'll admit, I don't have a leg to stand on as I haven't touched Linux yet.
-
It took me all but three seconds to install my NVidia drivers. And I didn't have to reboot, either. Linux us not like Shitblow$ where after you install an HTML editor, you have to reboot three times.
And paying for a crappy porduct? I paid $80 US for SuSE and I got thousands of free products. If I payed (whatever Windows costs...I never bought one), how many software packages would I get. And on top of that, I get free support for six months. How long does M$ give free support?
Anyway, back on topic, I like the fact that you have to mess around, and actually do some manual configuring to get Linux up to its full potential. It gives a valuable insight to how things work, and let's you juggle with the building blocks, so to speak. It is customizable, and it is like having a book that you write your own chapters and endings to. The flexibility, and freedom...that's what I am talking about.
The downside to it has to be its initial difficulty. For the guy that plays video games, uses the net for whatever, and writes e-mail, Linux is more of a chore than it is freedom. If one distro came up with a built in manual, or a decent tutorial, it would probably make all of the difference in the world. The main problem (well not problem) is that Linux/UNIX is written by programmers, for programmers. The average dude cannot understand the terminology used, the phrasing, and the procedures described. Microsoft is not much better in their attempts, but regarding the three tasks I listed, it can handle those with relative ease. Most people are content with that, hence the oligopoly with Wintel.
-
quote:
The downside to it has to be its initial difficulty. For the guy that plays video games, uses the net for whatever, and writes e-mail, Linux is more of a chore than it is freedom. If one distro came up with a built in manual, or a decent tutorial, it would probably make all of the difference in the world. The main problem (well not problem) is that Linux/UNIX is written by programmers, for programmers. The average dude cannot understand the terminology used, the phrasing, and the procedures described. Microsoft is not much better in their attempts, but regarding the three tasks I listed, it can handle those with relative ease. Most people are content with that, hence the oligopoly with Wintel.
Well I ain't scared. However, it's sounding more and more like Linux+User friendly distros=Lol yeah right. If that's not true, then I'd hate to see the UNFRIENDLY DISTROS! ;)
Not to worry, I'll bring almost every stupid n00b question I have RIGHTTTT into these forums to piss people off. :D :
-
quote:
Originally posted by para:
well, i expect to get bombed for this one, but i i agree. not with install/uninstall necessarily, rather i'm wondering WHY IN THE HELL, in the 21st century, we even need to deal with a command line in day to day operations? this is something i have a hard time grasping about linux. 2 mouse clicks is faster than dealing with a keyboard and command line, so what's the point? yes, i WANT the command line functionality for whenever and whatever i want to use it for, but why the hell does linux seem to depend on it so much for trivial operations that could be handled far faster with a GUI? that's the whole point of a GUI, is it not? to paint a pretty interface and make things faster. why waste time at a command line? my time is valuable to me.
Ahhh grasshopper, you have much to learn. If your time is valuable to you then you will forget about the GUI and learn the command line, then automate. The purpose of the GUI is not for speed but to make it easier for a n00b and it makes sense for picture oriented or WYSIWYG type of work. If your time is valuable then you will learn how to automate and that is what Linux and UNIX are *extremely* good at and Windows is *extremely* bad at. Windows users believe that they can get things done much faster by pointing and clicking their way through daily tasks while Linux users throw those tasks into a script and trigger them via cron or any number of other ways, then they go play golf.
I suggest if the GUI is your crutch then stick with Windows, or contribute by learning to create your own GUI apps for the tasks that you want a GUI for and let other n00bs benefit. If you don't want to learn C/C++ you can go for an easier scripting language. Python is used extensively to write graphical system tools and it is a fairly easy scripting language. Or you can go for the older ways of TCL/TK.
[ July 02, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]
-
quote:
Originally posted by lazygamer:
Hey that's cool, once again were helping to reveal the hidden downsides of Linux. Now what distro are you using? Whether your using a suposedly user friendly one is important. What about these things like KDE and GNOME? Perhaps your just not using a GUI like these?
right now, none. i'm in the process of d/ling suse as i speak. i've tried mandrake and redhat in the past, but was forced to abandon both fairly quickly due to lack of hardware support. my hardware has changed and i'm getting more and more irritated with MS, thus the rejuvinated interest. and yes, i'm familier with both KDE and GNOME. if i recall, i preffered KDE of the 2.
-
quote:
Originally posted by VoidMain:
Ahhh grasshopper, you have much to learn. If your time is valuable to you then you will forget about the GUI and learn the command line, then automate.
well, i'm not doing anything commercial. my primary daily activities include things like email corraspondance, lot's of internet activity, graphics editing, administrating a counter-strike server, writing scripts and doing sprites and various other half-life related stuff, FTP transfers and web site work. i don't think i'd ever have to leave the GUI for the vast majority of work i do. what i was refering to, reguarding the command line, has more to do with set-up and configuration of the OS itself. i understand i will have to learn, at the very least, some of the basic syntax and techniques.
-
What setup tasks are you referring to that does not have a GUI? I know of several GUI apps for every system setup task (although I prefer command line). Have you looked at Webmin? http://www.webmin.com/ (http://www.webmin.com/)
Webmin can do just about everything as far as system configuration and management. I won't mention "linuxconf" because I think it sucks. But I think webmin should be included in all GNU/Linux distros, some do include it. It can configure your drives, configure your network connections, databases, Apache, BIND, install Perl modules, etc etc.. All graphically and just as easily done remotely as locally since it is web based. I still personally prefer command line but my partners love webmin. They are Windows types so they feel more comfortable with webmin and find it very easy to use.
-
So when I get Linux on my comp, should I DEFINITLY put Webmin on?
-
play with it first
-
Wasn't Caldera the company that developed Webmin? I remember playing with it in OpenLinux 2.4
-
Oh, and the uninstall issue... You can just use RPMs, although I don't recommend it, and you could uninstall the programs just by typing in "rpm -e package." And if you want GUI, I know for the fact Mandrake has a program called "package manager" that can uninstall any RPM you have. I could include a screen shot if you want..
-
windows xp full version 300$ support 9.95 per minute via phone for tech support.
mandrake 8.1 24.95$ at walmart 60day free support.
the only thing i dont like about linux is not having an install/uninstall.
other than that linux kicks Microsofts ass.
-
UNINSTALL?! Just format the partition/drive with Linux on it! Or just delete the directories.
-
I have yet to find more than one thing that KDE cant do to configure. The only thing is changing the screen resolution/colour depth, but why should you ever need to change that unless you majorly upgrading you monitor?
Kpackage can handle all the RPMS you want to install. Webmin is great, linuxconf isnt bad.
-
installing NVIDIA drivers under linux is waaay faster then under windows (no reboot, and the X server gets cached completely in memory (for me at least, 1gb memory) so restarting it takes like 10 seconds)
RPM's can be installed with kpackage (but who needs that when the SuSE cd's contain every package you will ever need?)
with SuSE you can change your desktop resolution without a command prompt
the major downside of linux is lack of native commercial quality games (though I predict this will change in the coming years, companies are starting to release linux binaries for their games (yay BioWare!))
-
I've read a couple of those messages. I'm a newbie to linux and I find a lot of those comments interesting.
I must admit that I'm a MS fan. But eh, I've been using their products for more that 9 years now. I think the way they do. And I like it.
Linux is a new thing to me. I first tried it out in 1997. Could not get it to install. Eventually someone helped me. At first glance I was not interested. Since then I've tried Corel linux 1 and 2. Still, try to install something or get support. It's a nightmare. Especially when you're a newbie like myself. Since everyone mention RedHat, SuSE, Mandrake on their help pages, I've decided to go for RadHat 7.3. The installation went smooth. Even my webcam works !! (very scheap one. it only works on win98 - and now Linux). Since then I've had a lot of fun. I download about ten packages and try to install them, but I must admit I have a 30 % sucess rate - guess I'm still a newbie ?. RPM packages on the other hand helps a lot.
What I'm getting at is that I look at a product and ask myself what it can do for me. Is it flexible (MS not always, Linux YES), is it userfrienly (MS YES, Linux ?), can I customise it (MS to a certain extend, Linux - the sky's your limit), howmuch will the solution cost me (take in account the cost of support). I have to hand it to MS, they have a website which lists almost everything you need. I support MS products for a living and use their website alot. In the same way you get help for Linux. As a newbie I would suggest to stick to a known distro eg RegHat. Otherwise you'd end up like me crapping all over Linux 'cause this won't work ant that won't work. I got a lot of help pages on Linux. I cant get stuff to work (I'm still new). But with RH (ans SuSE, etc) you het support. They have a standard and they can help you !!
MR XP lover here has a problem with life. MS is not that wonderfull. They do force stuff on you like MSN, etc. But hey, I like that. With Linux on the other hand, you have that flexibility that you need in a network environment. You can tweak it and make it work for you. Example : When a user connects to a MS server and deletes a file, it's in HIS recycle bin. No one knows what happened to it. On Novell you can track it and it doesn't get deleted at all. Novell moves it to either deleted.sav or purged documents (p.s. I hate Novell). You can't tweak windows to do this, but one programmer told me it's possible on data. How's that for protecting data ?
XP lover sounds lika a school boy who plays Quake after school.
-
yeah, at first, the ms way is the way you are used too. but if you mess with linux enough you start to like it, then windows really pisses you off. i have to mess with windows machines,/*im not paid alot though, i don't have a job yet, come on, im only 15 and 9 months*/. stuff like the window shading. i double click the title bar and it goes full screen. that one gets me everytime. also all the rebooting.
-
o, and didn't you mean counter-strike instead of quake. quake is multiplatform and a favorite of linux zealots all around. as for xpissdrinker, beware, the world is full of idiots
-
well, this is the THIRD time i have tried to like linux, and the third time i'm dissapointed. first it was mandrake, then redhat and now suse. the former two were installed around a year ago and my hardware was not supported very well at all, so i wrote that off as compatibility issues. well now it looks like there's more to it than that...
my hardware has changed and is now pretty typical stuff: P3@797mHz on an intel D815EEA board, 512 MB PC133 SDRAM, visiontek GF3 card, SB Live!, intel pro 100+, yada yada. all supported stuff here, nothing unusual at all. 2 HD's, dissabled printer and dissabled scanner (just to make things easier), no SCSI, RAID, cameras, USB devices (other than a joystick which i left plugged in) or anything else.
here's what happened as a result of a very typical, default install...
installer would not install on the same drive as XP. period. even though i pre-formatted a primary partition for it. had to install it on a different drive. something about an unrecognized MBR or some such shit -- no big deal, though it sure as hell would be a big fat deal if someone new to linux, like me, didn't have another drive. off to tech support i would've had to go to get help on the install. sheesh.
encountered 2 errors during install, though i was able to continue. don't ask, because i don't remember.
after install, boot manager (lilo?) couldn't boot windows -- had to do a little manual editing of a config, but this should NOT have been necessary. anyone less expierenced may have been formating their drive over this, shall i be gental and call it an "oversight".
bugs, bugs, bugs: finally got her up and running. first things first; let's have some fun! started clicking through a bunch of the games. most ran fine, others did not run at all. no indication of anything wrong, just plain nothing happened. games that are installed, by default, would NOT run? c'mon!
let's customize that desktop and get rid of some of those unecessary graphics: for the hell of it, lets dump the clock applet........ *CRASH*. task bar dissapears then reapears and everything is cool again. put the clock back, no problem.
what's the menu bar for the desktop option do? ah! now we have a file/edit/favorites/etc. menu bar at the top of the desktop. cool, but i don't want it. uncheck that > click apply ....... hmmm... still there. refresh desktop...... still there. log off/on. ok, now it's fixed.
wonder what the internet look like throught the eyes of konquar or whatever it is? it sucks, that' how it looks. sloppy, blurry fonts, missing pieces of larger fonts. looks like any TT font is gonna look the same as well. no big huge deal i guess, just would've been nice if it didn't seem as if i was looking through saran-wrap.
the same went for the appearence of everything else in general. just wasn't clean and crisp looking, though my video card (visiontek GF3) and monitor (envsion EN770) were both detected without a hitch.
ok, let's fire up that word processing package. open office is it? the one installed by default. well, that looks pretty good! nothing like office XP, but it'll do. now lets make a litle more room here and make those menu bars a bit smaller........ *FREEZE* 3 fingered salute, with the "Esc" varation, and we're back to square 1.
well, wintendo has an auto-phone hom... i mean "update" feature. linux? yup! found that just fine! /rubs hands together in anticipation. waddya mean UNABLE TO GET THE UPDATES! try another server. nope. same thing with ALL the servers! christ-all-mighty! THAT doesn't even fucking work! back to the knowledge base and it looks like some god damned file may have not been installed. i quit.
---------------
anyone who has read some of my other posts otta know dam well that i detest MS and their phone home, spyware, "let's clutter your fucking disk up with useless crap and then hide it from you in case the cops need it" bullshit. however, after 3 tries with linux, it appears that the 3 distro's i tried (thee most popular ones, to my knowledge) are not a viable alternitive for a fairly expierenced windows user. the OS may be stable, but the apps sure ain't. it also didn't look very pretty comming through a voodoo 5 5500 at 800x600 a year ago, and it don't look much better riding on a GF3 at 1024x768 now.
i don't know that i'll give up without a fight just yet, though i feel it would certinly be justified if i did, and i can surely see why many others do. am i not ready for linux? or is linux not ready for me? although win95 was a beautiful piece of total shit, 98 on up NEVER greeted me that way. spyed on me maybe, but at least it worked -- well, most of the time :rolleyes:
-
I use Webmin on my virtual server (Apache on Red Hat), and I must say I can really recommend it!
-
Composer? Hehehehehe... Go to google and type in:
"WYSIWYG editor"+"linux" and click on the first link. It has a few other WYSIWYG HTML editors for linux that are much better.
Edit: You can run Dreamweaver in wine
[ July 03, 2002: Message edited by: TheQuirk ]
-
SuSe includes OpenOffice?
-
quote:
Originally posted by VoidMain:
SuSe includes OpenOffice?
don't quote me on that. i forget what it is. open office, star office, koffice, the office that freezes when you customize the menu bar... something along those lines. too dissgusted right now to even bother finding out which one it is. i need some cool-down time.
-
Probably Koffice. I don't know of any distro that includes OpenOffice (which is the best Office suite by the way). Does your version of SuSe include KDE 3.x? If so you can turn on TT fonts and antialiasing which will make konqueror look a lot better. And if you want all of your Windows fonts you can install them. Copy them from your C:\WINDOWS\FONTS directory (or C:\WINNT\FONTS) and use the font installer in the KDE control panel.
-
quote:
Originally posted by TheQuirk:
Composer? Hehehehehe... Go to google and type in:
"WYSIWYG editor"+"linux" and click on the first link. It has a few other WYSIWYG HTML editors for linux that are much better.
Edit: You can run Dreamweaver in wine
[ July 03, 2002: Message edited by: TheQuirk ]
WYSIWYG?? Vi is the best HTML editor (http://smile.gif)
thats all i have used for The Bob Hub (http://www.bobhub.cjb.net) and the FuckMicrosoft Chatroom (http://chatroom.fuckmicrosoft.com:8000)
-
The latest vesion of IcePack Linux includes OpenOffice with its distro. I have yet to install it though.
-
Has anyone ever thought that maybe Windows is not so user friendly and simple? What if it's only user friendly because we are so incredibly used to it and brainwashed with it?
What if others systems offer their own style of simplicity and user friendlyness, but do it in a diffrent style then Windows? So if this holds true for some Linux distros, then perhaps persistence is the only thing that can shatter the Wind0ze illusion.
-
Yes. But I know, for a fact, my mom, dad and sister would prefer to point and click for ten minutes instead of writing out commands in five. Windows still beats linux in this area -- user friendliness and simplicity. But then comes an important question -- "why not get a Mac?" For a simple reason. People are stupid. And that's all it is. I don't care about microsoft brainwashing people, because I, after using the first versions on Windows and Dos, for a pretty long while, was able to break away. And the stupid people didn't even think about leaving their precious Windows XP with their oh so great Counter Strike and their "super duper killer dark over lord shadow dragon murder nazi knights" clan.
[ July 04, 2002: Message edited by: TheQuirk ]
-
I have just recently installed both win2k and suse 8.0, and these are the reason why (I think) Linux rocks, and windows sucks:
The suse install is great, I boot off the CD, answer a few questions and it installs. One reboot. Win2k takes 3-4 reboots just to install it. Plus I haven't yet had a 2k CD that would boot. (I use the M$DN CD from work). This takes about 10 minutes using M$'s horribly slow method of reading each file off the floppy. Installing linux from a boot floppy is much faster than 2k as it loads the disk image into memory, then does the file system manipulation.
Windows hardware compatibilty sucks. They tend to not support anything that isn't a big player in the hardware market. I have a semi-old video card configuration (Voodoo 2 and Permedia 2 cards), but they have decent enough performance for me. Neither are supported fully in Win2k or XP and both are supported fully under linux. I can't play any OpenGL based games under Win2k because the Permedia driver doesn't support GL(even though the voodoo 2 does) I don't think I should have to drop a few hundred buck on a new video card just to play a game under windows. So now I have a third boot just for 98. (another hour long install, and 10 more reboots....)
Software: Suse comes with everything I need, Web, OpenOffice, KOffice, KDevelop(I'm a software developer), database servers, an NT Server emulator (because M$ products don't support open standards), broadcast 2000 (professional video editor) and a ton of stuff I will probably never use. And I have the choice of not installing what I don't need.
This equals tens of thousands of dollars of M$ crap, all for the price of an $80 dollar set of CD's and a few trips to ftp.suse.com to get the packages that aren't included in the personal version.
I am very comfortable on a command line, I grew up with DOS, and grew into Linux, so although I don't use the GUI configuration tools, it seems that Suse has a Yast applet for just about everything that you could need to configure.
It took everyone some time to learn how to get around windows, and if you give it a shot, most people will be suprised at how easy it is to use Linux coming from windows.
As for the M$ kiddies in here, a word of advice: If you want to work in an IT field when you grow up, only having Windows skills will hurt you, badly. M$ does not control the server OS market, and linux is taking a huge position here. Knowing how to get around your stupid XP box will get you nowhere, but if you can get around a linux box, you can administrate nearly any Unix based server out there.
Just venting my M$ frustrations, and hopefully giving a little insight into this topic.
-
I thought I should add that this is still a MS dominated world. So all of you Anti-microsoft dudes must still master Wind0ze boxes if you want to be a computer technician.
Just look at Wind0ze as giving you LOTS of business, while you secretly chuckle at being part of the l33t Linux underground organization as you remove the cover of some n00b's wind0ze box. (http://smile.gif)
Oh and XP didn't have 3D support for my Voodoo 3 2000 PCI drivers, luckily I could get some "custom made" drivers off the internet. Amergamlin something like that.
-
WAIT! There's a problem. Even if I could make l33t bindz(macros) in Linux, what could I possibly think of to use this ability for? (http://smile.gif)
-
quote:
Originally posted by lazygamer:
I thought I should add that this is still a MS dominated world. So all of you Anti-microsoft dudes must still master Wind0ze boxes if you want to be a computer technician.
Just look at Wind0ze as giving you LOTS of business, while you secretly chuckle at being part of the l33t Linux underground organization as you remove the cover of some n00b's wind0ze box. (http://smile.gif)
Oh and XP didn't have 3D support for my Voodoo 3 2000 PCI drivers, luckily I could get some "custom made" drivers off the internet. Amergamlin something like that.
if people start learning to be l33t linux users, then businesses will start to realize how much the users can accomplish on Linux versus windows and start using Linux.
-
Definitly, im just saying that to get your foot in the door and SUCCEED at fixing most of your clients computers, you need your windows skillz.
Train both your skillz I suppose.
-
Actually, that is not the case (in my case).
I fix winblows boxen by installing linux on it. I mean, no traces of winblows... left, permanently.
The only exception is winblows running as virtual box under vmware on linux, thusly in safer environment... if someone needs legacy stuff.
The downside of linux is one that I see: the maze of dependencies. Someone has to come up with a better version management and some automated way to fetch the needed dependencies, albeit mandrake software manager is doing a good job provided that the packages are d/l from their repository/mirrors (or from textar -- www.pclinuxonline.com). (http://www.pclinuxonline.com).)
It is rare that something will get stuck on deps, but it is nonetheless frustrating, especially after dilligently fetching the needed packages from rpmfind site or compiling sources, you'are still stuck because that library need another library that needs another library. Sometimes symlinking the version one has helps, though.
Beside that, after a bit more than one year running linux on my workstations, I would not go back to winblows even if they paid me.
As for server, I was using linux since 1996 and had about 4 reboots throughout that time, all kernel updates and one spontaneous shutdown -- fortunately the server is setup to autoboot after 15 minutes. Happened at 3 am so no one of my clients noticed. :)
-
my real reasons for not liking Linux
-i can't play Half-Life (well technically i CAN install it but i couldn't get it OpenGL mode to work through WineX, i put WinXP back before i even asked for help because i'm impatient). this is a pretty lame reason though so disregard it
-KDE is pretty laggy so it's not the greatest for running any kind of game or server. this always is pretty lame reason since you can push ctrl+alt+(F key) to run console and X server at the same time so you can run servers and games or whatever in the console and when yer done screwin around ya can just close KDE and it wont affect the servers or game or whatever
so basically the only reasons are that i'm impatient, i hate to read and i want results and i want them now. if Half-Life worked on Half-Life as a non-need-to-be-emulated game i would switch in less than a second.
MySQL is also a bit of a bitch to use because i don't know how to setup a new user and i hate reading.
another thing is how it's hard to unintall stuff, say you accidentaly installed something without --prefix = (wherever) and you don't know where it went. that's a bummer.
-
> you accidentaly installed something without --prefix = (wherever) and you don't know where it went. that's a bummer
# locate whatever
# whereis whatever
or simply check the INSTALL and README files for the default location.
For rpm's
# rpm --help
-
OH NO! Im getting a tad nervous. People are mentioning "interdependicies" and "poor GUI performance".
Hopefully Choco just has hardware that isn't as good as mine, and it's not KDE's fault. I have 433 celeron, 384mb ram, and a voodoo 3 2000 PCI. How do you measure up Choco?
About these scary interdepndicies, can't I just pop on Mandrake and mess around with it some to get used to it/learn it? Surely im safe from this terrifying concept that I do not fully understand. ;)
-
from previous mentions
i hate using the console to do stuff, but thats just me.
Gnome never seems to work right for me. at my workstation the bottom navigation bar seems to have disappeared, making it a complete pain in the ass. so i used kde instead.
-
What a bunch of whiners (especially Choochoo, I'm getting pretty fed up with his lameness). "I don't like this because I don't know how to... but I am too lazy to read....". Stick with Windows then, and stick to the Windows forums.