Stop Microsoft
Operating Systems => Linux and UNIX => Topic started by: Oddzball on 7 October 2003, 23:30
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ok first let me start off by saying this is just my opinions of linux so far, after about a few days use. Kinda a summary of mylikes and dislikes. I've been a window user all my life, ever since windows 3.1, so switching to linux was a big change for me.
Here's how the whole process went using mandrake linux.
Ok installation, this was the hardest part for me it seemed. i would say i had the whole thing crash or lock up about 5 times. First it didnt like my modem, so i took the modem out and replaced it, then it didnt like that modem either, so i decided i didnt need a modem. Then my voodoo 3 video card, well it liked that untill it finally decided to actually boot into the OS, which it would proceed to lock up, resulting in me powering down the computer, and replacing the card with a pci cheapo generic one. Now when i started up the computer and tried to get to the OS it decided i had some new hardware it needed to find, and hard drake just kept crashing and locking up. Fine, so i do selective start up and tell it not to do hard drake. So it loads, but it wont load my desktop, only the text based thing. Ok fine, i decide to reinstall again.
So i reinstall, but for some annoying reason it keeps trying to do it in vgalo with 16 colors and shit. Well i let it run its course anyway but unfortunately the installation locked up about 20 minutes in.
Ok so thats my experience with linux so far... I must say i would have figured linux to be more stable the way ppl talk about it. Most of the problems it seems are compatibility to hardware. Well thats fine with me i like a challenge, and will probably try to install it again later today, I suppose the thing that draws me to it the most is all the neat software it comes with, and the fact that its all free.
So all in all i would say i have had a bad linux experience. Bad, but not bad enough that im going to quit. I think i do like windows more still, but only because it seems to work better when installing.
Ill probably post again once i actually get linux working. If anyone has any suggestions feel free to reply.
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It will be a challenge everytime you use it.
I don't think that even Torvalds knows how to use it 100% painlessly.
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Hehe, evertime you say. Eh I'm trying to put it on my secondary computer anyway, so i aint to upset that its not working, just a little annoyed at having to reinstall it so many times.
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quote:
Originally posted by Viper:
It will be a challenge everytime you use it.
I don't think that even Torvalds knows how to use it 100% painlessly.
Don't be so silly Viper.
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quote:
Originally posted by Oddzball:
ok first let me start off by saying this is just my opinions of linux so far, after about a few days use. Kinda a summary of mylikes and dislikes. I've been a window user all my life, ever since windows 3.1, so switching to linux was a big change for me.
Here's how the whole process went using mandrake linux.
Ok installation, this was the hardest part for me it seemed. i would say i had the whole thing crash or lock up about 5 times. First it didnt like my modem, so i took the modem out and replaced it, then it didnt like that modem either, so i decided i didnt need a modem. Then my voodoo 3 video card, well it liked that untill it finally decided to actually boot into the OS, which it would proceed to lock up, resulting in me powering down the computer, and replacing the card with a pci cheapo generic one. Now when i started up the computer and tried to get to the OS it decided i had some new hardware it needed to find, and hard drake just kept crashing and locking up. Fine, so i do selective start up and tell it not to do hard drake. So it loads, but it wont load my desktop, only the text based thing. Ok fine, i decide to reinstall again.
So i reinstall, but for some annoying reason it keeps trying to do it in vgalo with 16 colors and shit. Well i let it run its course anyway but unfortunately the installation locked up about 20 minutes in.
Ok so thats my experience with linux so far... I must say i would have figured linux to be more stable the way ppl talk about it. Most of the problems it seems are compatibility to hardware. Well thats fine with me i like a challenge, and will probably try to install it again later today, I suppose the thing that draws me to it the most is all the neat software it comes with, and the fact that its all free.
So all in all i would say i have had a bad linux experience. Bad, but not bad enough that im going to quit. I think i do like windows more still, but only because it seems to work better when installing.
Ill probably post again once i actually get linux working. If anyone has any suggestions feel free to reply.
You should do the opposite. (that is if all parameters are detected the right way)
After your installation:
*First remove all nonessential hardware(even mouse and keyboard!)
*Boot your system(if you really have a hardware problem, this time, it will work)
*Add your devices, one by one, till you find the device that's causing your problem.
PS: You must reboot for every device.
This will take time, but always works.
;)
[ October 07, 2003: Message edited by: insomnia ]
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good thing the most advanced OS in the world can't detect a damn video card right the first time and has to reboot for everything.
better break out the source code and start compiling!
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i've never seen a video card that didn't ask you to install its when used on windows xp. the graphics usually suck without the drivers that came with the card. If the only drivers written for your video card are for windows, i dont think you can blame linux for that. hardware is a common problem, but I fail to see how it makes linux any less of a great operating system... it's not linux's fault that hardware manufacturers dont write drivers for it.
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quote:
Originally posted by Agent Jimmy James Smith:
good thing the most advanced OS in the world can't detect a damn video card right the first time and has to reboot for everything.
better break out the source code and start compiling!
:D :D :D
That doesn't make it less advanced...
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You didnt say what Distro, I could probably help, I need to know the distro.
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oh really?
it certainly makes it frustrating to use and makes a lot of people give up on it
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quote:
Originally posted by Agent Jimmy James Smith:
oh really?
it certainly makes it frustrating to use and makes a lot of people give up on it
why be frustrated at the OS? be frustrated at your video card. If you had problems getting your video card to work in windows, you wouldn't get rid of windows you would get a new video card. This is true I know many people that have. But if you have problems installing something in linux you get a new operating system... I dont understand it.
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Stryker is right. I have little experience with Linux but usually people blame something new than the older stuff that they are less familiar with.
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Jimmy James, i am sorry to inform you that Linux is not perfect, what the fuck is your point, its getting a damn bigger marketplace then apple, it might actually stop Microsoft eventually.
Apple never will because of the fact there "Perfect Os" will only run there "Perfect Hardware". And more to the point, because Linux runs on a platform with shitloads of Hardware, not all of it can be supported, and I dont think a Voodoo 3 driver will be written because of how old they are anyway, surely you can live without one? In a few years it wont matter, and Linux is supporting nearly all the new hardware.
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Hurray! People are responding. By distro do you mean the type of linux? I'm using Mandrake 9.1
Actually though I have gotten it to work with gnome, but not KDE, for some reason the mandrake distro of KDE is fucked up IMO. Everytime you try to load up the GUI it give you all this crap about not being able to find files for KDE. Really irritating.
The real problem im having now is that when i go to the little add and remove packages thing and try to add more packages it asks me to put the linux cd in, and when i do it seems to not realize it, and keeps ejecting the cd and telling me to put linux instal cd 2 in the drive. Unfortunately it is in the drive, so im unable to add new packages when i need them.
Anyone know how i can add packages (like open office for example) and get the stupid thing to recognize the cd that is in the drive?
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remember, the "brands" of Linux aren't really different "kinds". It's just what company packages it. Linux is just the kernel, and everything else is "GNU Utilities" and stuff made for that distro.
and what the fuck is my point? I'M AN ASSHOLE!! I don't need one. I'm sick of hearing people bitch about my platform, so I'm gonna bitch about everything else by blowing shit outta my ass.
OS X > Linux distros
CthulOS will soon = OS X
CthulOS > Linux distros
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I just want to be able to install the other software packages? Any idea why it doesnt recognize my Linux install cd #2 as being the linux install cd #2?
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quote:
Originally posted by Agent Jimmy James Smith:
remember, the "brands" of Linux aren't really different "kinds". It's just what company packages it. Linux is just the kernel, and everything else is "GNU Utilities" and stuff made for that distro.
and what the fuck is my point? I'M AN ASSHOLE!! I don't need one. I'm sick of hearing people bitch about my platform, so I'm gonna bitch about everything else by blowing shit outta my ass.
OS X > Linux distros
CthulOS will soon = OS X
CthulOS > Linux distros
oh wow, thanks for clearing that up for me...
does this mean that you no longer support your my-video-card-doesnt-work-perfectly-right-away-so-linux-sucks theory?
no oddzball, i dont. did you use that disk to install mandrake? I'm not too familiar with mandrake, not sure what process it uses to identify the disk.
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Jimmy James, is it your goal to come into every linux discussion and screw with it.
Should I start posting in the Apple Section?
I dont post in there because my latest apple experience was with OS 7.
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quote:
Originally posted by Oddzball:
I just want to be able to install the other software packages? Any idea why it doesnt recognize my Linux install cd #2 as being the linux install cd #2?
Do you have more than one CD-ROM drive? If so, try the other one.
Aside from that, I'm really not sure. You're describing problems I've never had.
quote:
It will be a challenge everytime you use it.
I don't think that even Torvalds knows how to use it 100% painlessly
I can assure you that this is not true.
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On older Celery 400Mhz machines, ATI Rage video cards, everything-on-board Gateway PCs I found small quirks with both Mandrake and Suse installs. I would say try Redhat 9.0 or if you just want to have a look try Knoppix (it runs straight from CD with about 2Gb of apps to play with).
I've used RedHat9 on both a modernish Duron/Athlon machine and an old grunter of a P233 mostly fine (see later). However there *was* a problem with the 2.4.20 linux kernel and *some* Athlon/XPs (especially XPs - including mine) which seeing as it was the "current" kernel affected Redhat9, Madrake 9.?, Knoppix 3.2 and so on, maybe this is your problem?
I'd say get and try Knoppix 3.3 (newer kernel) and if that works this may be the answer. Until the Athlon XP problem was fixed Redhat9 had freezing on boot, and some executables on Gentoo just crashed. Since Gentoo has been updated to a newer kernel it is fine. As for internal modems, "Winmodems" are not usually linux-friendly, graphics cards - sorry don't know much about the specifics here.
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For Mandrake help, you can try this message board as well:
http://www.mandrakeusers.org (http://www.mandrakeusers.org)
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Hurray I finally got linux running. So... i read all your tips, and i still cant get to add any packages etc without completely reinstalling. Allwyas gives me this bull about not having the right cd in the drive. So when ever i have to install software or packages, its complete reinstall for me, joy. Other then that Im suprised, sure linux aint as great as everyone claims, but its nice, and runs suprisingly well on my older computer.
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Have you tried browsing the CD and double clicking on an RPM?
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quote:
Originally posted by Oddzball:
Hurray I finally got linux running. So... i read all your tips, and i still cant get to add any packages etc without completely reinstalling. Allwyas gives me this bull about not having the right cd in the drive. So when ever i have to install software or packages, its complete reinstall for me, joy. Other then that Im suprised, sure linux aint as great as everyone claims, but its nice, and runs suprisingly well on my older computer.
That doesnt sound at all like you finally got it running.
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Ok so technically i got it limping. I'm thinking of saying screw mandrake and going to try redhat, though its a pain in the ass to have to download 3 cds again.
Cd1 of my mandrake distro always seems to have errors when installing stuff. I even re downloaded and reburned it and its still bad, so im just gonna have to go with a different distro of linux.
Gentoo or redhat seem like good choices. I dont really see a difference between the different types anyway personally..
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I'd pick Red Hat over Gentoo personally, because, from what I've heard, Gentoo isn't exactly the most user-friendly distro there is (of course, having not tried it myself, I can't say that for certain).
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quote:
Originally posted by Oddzball:
Ok so technically i got it limping. I'm thinking of saying screw mandrake and going to try redhat, though its a pain in the ass to have to download 3 cds again.
Cd1 of my mandrake distro always seems to have errors when installing stuff. I even re downloaded and reburned it and its still bad, so im just gonna have to go with a different distro of linux.
Gentoo or redhat seem like good choices. I dont really see a difference between the different types anyway personally..
The problems you have listed are really atypical. It may be that the CD image you downloaded was damaged. I was especially puzzled by the problems with the Voodoo 3 because Linux support for V3,V4,and V5 is really quite good. Right now I have a V5 on one of my boxes and it didn't give me any problems on install.
I'd really suggest you run an MD5sum on any ISO image you download. MD5sum will examine a file and generate a string of characters based on the file contents. Linux ISO mirrors put a small file (usually in the same ftp directory) containing the string that they generated with md5sum. If they match, then you know you didn't get any corruption during your download, before you potentially waste time burning a bad image to CD.
MD5sum comes with most linux distros. You can download versions for windows if you need to.
BTW, my last mandrake install was like 3 or 4 years ago, so I can't comment on the Mandrake install process. I can tell you that I've had very good results with RH installs.
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quote:
Oddzball: The real problem im having now is that when i go to the little add and remove packages thing and try to add more packages it asks me to put the linux cd in, and when i do it seems to not realize it, and keeps ejecting the cd and telling me to put linux instal cd 2 in the drive. Unfortunately it is in the drive, so im unable to add new packages when i need them.
Anyone know how i can add packages (like open office for example) and get the stupid thing to recognize the cd that is in the drive?
Why did you burn the CD's in the first place? (http://smile.gif)
I unpacked the ISO's, put them all in one directory on C:\, inserted a Mandrake bootdisk and installed from there.
I'm not sure, but I think the package installer looks there for the CD-ROM's.
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quote:
Originally posted by Oddzball:
Gentoo or redhat seem like good choices. I dont really see a difference between the different types anyway personally..
Hahaha
Install red hat and when your done install gentoo and then tell me if you see a difference between the different types.
Gentoo and Red Hat are about as far apart as Linux Distro's come. Mandrake is a distro that looks like Red Hat.
I wouldn't recommend Gentoo to someone who hasn't touched Linux before, its alot more tedious and less straightforeward than redhat or mandrake. However, if your willing to spend some time reading and have paitence, you could install Gentoo and get a system the is perfectly tailored to your hardware and gives as good performance as Linux can get.
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Considering:
*You seem to have HW probing difficulties.
*You don't seem to like GNOME.
*You don't like burning ISOs again.
*You had configuration and packaging problems
You might like doing this:
SuSE 8.2, ftp installation.
http://www.suse.com/us/private/download/suse_linux/index.html (http://www.suse.com/us/private/download/suse_linux/index.html)
Yast is a very usefull tool for easy installation , configuration and package management.
Just be sure you read the installation guide.
[ October 10, 2003: Message edited by: insomnia ]
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Download red-hat 9.0 disc 1, install a minimal setup, and then use apt-get to fetch everything ;)
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try freebsd. it will piss you off the first few times you install it. and confuse you. but once you learn the software installation procedure's it will make you very happy.
as for the differences between distros, most have to do with packaging of the tools and utitlites, or in red hat's case, what they do to the software. but thats another rant.
now for a linux distro, i would personally recommend buying a book with the linux cd's already with it. might be a release or two behind, but enough to get you knowledgeable to apply concepts to whatever distro you decide on using