Stop Microsoft

Operating Systems => Linux and UNIX => Topic started by: DukePuke on 12 May 2004, 14:02

Title: webservers performance.. linuxoze vs M$ related
Post by: DukePuke on 12 May 2004, 14:02
wtf.. just got disscussion somethere, where some motherfuckers yelled that linux + apache is total crap, insecure,full of bugs, and they are owned by M$ IIS by total server count. (lol, where from such morons came from)..  but strange thing, that they gave me document about webservers performance.. this is quite huge, and looks like serious.. btw i dont know what to say but here it is :

http://www.veritest.com/clients/reports/microsoft/ms_competitive_webbench_performance.pdf (http://www.veritest.com/clients/reports/microsoft/ms_competitive_webbench_performance.pdf)

this is strange, microsoft's webservers is fastest?    (http://redface.gif)
btw should i believe it?

[ May 12, 2004: Message edited by: DukePuke ]

Title: webservers performance.. linuxoze vs M$ related
Post by: Refalm on 12 May 2004, 14:53
Nope, there're more webservers running Apache:

(http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2004/05/overallc.gif) (website (http://news.netcraft.com/archives/web_server_survey.html))
Title: webservers performance.. linuxoze vs M$ related
Post by: DukePuke on 12 May 2004, 16:04
heh OK, i know that apache is most popular webserver software but by the way I suggest read that document, which i posted here. This is about webservers performance, speed, etc.. I DONT care what bunch of morons talk that apache is shit and so on, they are unalphabetic kids. but this document looks like strange..
Title: webservers performance.. linuxoze vs M$ related
Post by: insomnia on 12 May 2004, 17:39
quote:
Originally posted by DukePuke:
heh OK, i know that apache is most popular webserver software but by the way I suggest read that document, which i posted here. This is about webservers performance, speed, etc.. I DONT care what bunch of morons talk that apache is shit and so on, they are unalphabetic kids. but this document looks like strange..


Try this:
http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2004/05/04/most_reliable_hosting_providers_during_april.html (http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2004/05/04/most_reliable_hosting_providers_during_april.html)
Title: webservers performance.. linuxoze vs M$ related
Post by: DukePuke on 12 May 2004, 18:33
insomnia and refalm, ok, you are people who helped me a lot, but i dont ask you much this time.. just opinion about this document :

http://www.veritest.com/clients/reports/microsoft/ms_competitive_webbench_performance.pdf (http://www.veritest.com/clients/reports/microsoft/ms_competitive_webbench_performance.pdf)
Title: webservers performance.. linuxoze vs M$ related
Post by: insomnia on 12 May 2004, 19:58
quote:
Test report prepared under contract from Microsoft
Title: webservers performance.. linuxoze vs M$ related
Post by: KernelPanic on 12 May 2004, 20:51
Any test that puts a WinNT server over a Linux server usually stinks.
Arragont as this seems it is the case, and has been in public knowledge since this (http://slashdot.org/features/99/04/23/1316228.shtml).

Microsoft meddle with these benchmarks and/or they commision them   :rolleyes:   (the latter is the case with your example - see insomnia's post)

[ May 12, 2004: Message edited by: Tux ]

Title: webservers performance.. linuxoze vs M$ related
Post by: M51DPS on 13 May 2004, 00:02
quote:
Originally posted by Tux:
Any test that puts a WinNT server over a Linux server usually stinks.
Arrogant as this seems it is the case, and has been in public knowledge since this (http://slashdot.org/features/99/04/23/1316228.shtml).

Microsoft meddle with these benchmarks and/or they commission them    :rolleyes:    (the latter is the case with your example - see insomnia's post)

[ May 12, 2004: Message edited by: Tux ]



It's generally a bad idea to trust a product's benchmarks when they're from the company that makes them. Everyone always fiddles with the results, try to find documents from independent organizations.
Title: webservers performance.. linuxoze vs M$ related
Post by: DukePuke on 13 May 2004, 00:39
btw ok, i understand this shit, this is damn M$shit propaganda

but damn M$ holds itself solid and self-trusting company, so why the fuck they decrease its reputation with some kind of blury tests and post fake data in public paperz?.
Title: webservers performance.. linuxoze vs M$ related
Post by: savet on 13 May 2004, 06:02
Who's going to challenge them?  Redhat?  Suse?  All the commercial linux distros are probably more concerned with the SCO lawsuits than they are about a barely credible performance evaluation.

Besides, technically the study was correct.  In every setup, the windows server outperformed the linux server.  So a very highly tuned windows server was able to beat a very poorly tuned linux server...yippee.  That's like putting a heavily modded civic up against a corvette only firing on one cylinder and saying how superior the civic is to the corvette....or how Japanese engineering is superior (Not that it isn't....my R1 impresses me every time I ride it LOL).

If anyone has any doubts about which is superior...this link should end the debate.

http://www.bbspot.com/Features/2000/12/os_guide.html (http://www.bbspot.com/Features/2000/12/os_guide.html)

[ May 12, 2004: Message edited by: Rio ]

Title: webservers performance.. linuxoze vs M$ related
Post by: savet on 13 May 2004, 06:06
lol...clicked quote instead of edit

[ May 12, 2004: Message edited by: Rio ]

Title: webservers performance.. linuxoze vs M$ related
Post by: flap on 13 May 2004, 06:15
The company commissioned to do that study is a partner of Microsoft's.

http://boston.internet.com/news/article.php/1431211 (http://boston.internet.com/news/article.php/1431211)
Title: webservers performance.. linuxoze vs M$ related
Post by: hm_murdock on 14 May 2004, 06:26
but there is no OS called linuxoze
Title: webservers performance.. linuxoze vs M$ related
Post by: ecsyle_one on 14 May 2004, 06:56
quote:
Originally posted by JimmyJames: GenSTEP Founder:
but there is no OS called linuxoze

lol  (http://graemlins/tux.gif)
Title: webservers performance.. linuxoze vs M$ related
Post by: preacher on 14 May 2004, 20:35
Ok listen. I have seen many a report that puts the performance of Microsoft's IIS webserver above the Apache 1.3.x webserver software. It is a known fact that it is more efficient. Keep in mind, I am a linux junkie and hate Microsoft, but I am not embarrassed to face facts.

But here is another fact, Microsofts webserver software costs $1000+ for each computer it is installed on, and has a multibillion dollar company that develops it. Meanwhile Apache is free. Also Apache 2.x fixed many of the performance problems that 1.3.x suffers from. Did I forget to mention that Apache has suffered far fewer critical flaws than IIS, and they have been detected and patched in a much shorter period of time due to the fact that it is open source. Oh and Apache is the #1 webserver in the world. Not bad from a company no where near the size of Microsoft.

Now even though Microsoft IIS is more efficient than Apache, you have to really look at these stats and question their validity in real world applications. Huge websites such as Amazon.com use apache every day with absolutely no problems. So you really have to wonder if these tests mean anything at all.
Title: webservers performance.. linuxoze vs M$ related
Post by: insomnia on 14 May 2004, 23:09
quote:
Originally posted by ThePreacher:
Ok listen. I have seen many a report that puts the performance of Microsoft's IIS webserver above the Apache 1.3.x webserver software. It is a known fact that it is more efficient. Keep in mind, I am a linux junkie and hate Microsoft, but I am not embarrassed to face facts.

But here is another fact, Microsofts webserver software costs $1000+ for each computer it is installed on, and has a multibillion dollar company that develops it. Meanwhile Apache is free. Also Apache 2.x fixed many of the performance problems that 1.3.x suffers from. Did I forget to mention that Apache has suffered far fewer critical flaws than IIS, and they have been detected and patched in a much shorter period of time due to the fact that it is open source. Oh and Apache is the #1 webserver in the world. Not bad from a company no where near the size of Microsoft.

Now even though Microsoft IIS is more efficient than Apache, you have to really look at these stats and question their validity in real world applications. Huge websites such as Amazon.com use apache every day with absolutely no problems. So you really have to wonder if these tests mean anything at all.



Euhm ...
Sorry, but your absolutely wrong.
IIS isn't more efficient at all!!!
Please check some facts before making weird statements like that.

FACT: Their don't even exist servers big enough to make IIS efficient.

Do explain why you think IIS could possibly be as efficient as apache?
Title: webservers performance.. linuxoze vs M$ related
Post by: ecsyle_one on 14 May 2004, 23:34
quote:
Originally posted by insomnia:


Euhm ...
Sorry, but your absolutely wrong.
IIS isn't more efficient at all!!!
Please check some facts before making weird statements like that.

FACT: Their don't even exist servers big enough to make IIS efficient.

Do explain why you think IIS could possibly be as efficient as apache?


Prove that it isn't. Just because it's Microsoft doesn't mean that it automatically sucks.
Title: webservers performance.. linuxoze vs M$ related
Post by: insomnia on 14 May 2004, 23:52
quote:
Originally posted by ecsyle.artformsdesign:

Prove that it isn't. Just because it's Microsoft doesn't mean that it automatically sucks.



Their are some who are to big,
but they all use something like AIX(indeed the fastest server system).
IIS doesn't suck cause it's MS,
it sucks cause of it's performance.

[ May 14, 2004: Message edited by: insomnia ]

Title: webservers performance.. linuxoze vs M$ related
Post by: preacher on 15 May 2004, 01:15
Well maybe you haven't read the multiple unbiased articles in many pc publications where they did load testing of IIS vs. Apache on the exact same hardware. I have read at least 5 such articles and there is no way all of these could be biased. The results showed that IIS was more efficient when accepting simultaneous requests. I believe it could handle 12,000 while apache was only getting around 7,000.

Now I know you are convinced that all things Microsft are bullshit, but that doesn't mean that for this particular test IIS couldn't beat apache.

Read my whole post, and you will see that I believe these load tests are totally irrelevant when it come down to day to day use. I am not wrong, you just made an uneducated and biased comment based purely on emotion and not fact.

Fact, for this kind of test, IIS is more efficient.

Another fact, in the real world, these conditions almost never exist, and apache is more than powerful enough to support some of the largest websites in the world.

Get over it, apache isn't perfect.
Title: webservers performance.. linuxoze vs M$ related
Post by: ecsyle_one on 15 May 2004, 03:19
I have a p2 450 running apache 2 right now. It has 384(?) mb ram, and gets the job done. How would IIS run on this system? Im just curious. I'm not going to switch. I like Linux/MySQL/PHP. I do not run a gui at all. Command line all the ay. Oh yeah, and some webmin for when i am too lazy to switch monitors  ;)

I wonder if I could even run a 2003 server decently on a p2 450.
Title: webservers performance.. linuxoze vs M$ related
Post by: insomnia on 15 May 2004, 04:14
Yes IIS is perfect...(oh please)

You don't know any facts.
I work with:
a.Linux/apache
b.*BSD/apache
c.Windows/apache
d.Windows/IIS
e.AIX and others

Thats my fucking job.
I write and build networks and servers.
I don't do this for free and I do get paid for it.
If someone wants IIS, he'll get IIS.
And no, I never claimed Linux/Apache is the fastest server (AIX is!).
 
   
quote:
I believe it could handle 12,000 while apache was only getting around 7,000


Do you understand anything about networking?
How many servers get more than 7000 simultaneous requests?
Please give some examples.

   
quote:
Now I know you are convinced that all things Microsft are bullshit


WHY?
You don't even know me.
I do know IIS is crap.

   
quote:
Read my whole post, and you will see that I believe these load tests are totally irrelevant when it come down to day to day use


Read my first link and read Tux's link.

   
quote:
I am not wrong, you just made an uneducated and biased comment based purely on emotion and not fact.


You're very wrong.

   
quote:
Fact, for this kind of test, IIS is more efficient.


That's hilarious.

   
quote:
Get over it, apache isn't perfect.


I know. But it's better than IIS.

 
quote:
How would IIS run on this system? Im just curious. I'm not going to switch. I like Linux/MySQL/PHP.


IIS is known for it very bad interaction with PHP.
Better buy both IIS and ASP.

[ May 14, 2004: Message edited by: insomnia ]

Title: webservers performance.. linuxoze vs M$ related
Post by: skyman8081 on 15 May 2004, 06:00
quote:
Do you understand anything about networking?
How many servers get more than 7000 simultaneous requests?
Please give some examples.


http://slashdot.org/ (http://slashdot.org/)
DDoS
DoS

 
quote:
IIS is known for it very bad interaction with PHP.
Better buy both IIS and ASP.


perhaps it is because the two languages are so similar, IIS is trying to parse PHP as ASP.  and where do you see IIS supporting PHP anyway?

[ May 14, 2004: Message edited by: Sauron: Troll Warrior ]

Title: webservers performance.. linuxoze vs M$ related
Post by: xyle_one on 15 May 2004, 06:54
lol

eskador.com is hosting on windows server and I can run PHP scripts.
Title: webservers performance.. linuxoze vs M$ related
Post by: insomnia on 15 May 2004, 08:00
quote:
Originally posted by xyle_one:
lol

eskador.com is hosting on windows server and I can run PHP scripts.



So...???
PHP is not only a scripting language.
Do you actually understand anything of this?
Title: webservers performance.. linuxoze vs M$ related
Post by: insomnia on 15 May 2004, 08:10
quote:
http://slashdot.org/

 
Are you actually claiming SlashDot uses IIS???
And if they don't, they can't possibly accept that amount of users at the same time (the apache limit, remember!).    :rolleyes:        :rolleyes:        :rolleyes:

[ May 14, 2004: Message edited by: insomnia ]

Title: webservers performance.. linuxoze vs M$ related
Post by: skyman8081 on 15 May 2004, 08:24
quote:
Originally posted by insomnia:
Please give some examples.


I was talking about the effect slashdot has on websites.

[ May 14, 2004: Message edited by: Sauron: Troll Warrior ]

Title: webservers performance.. linuxoze vs M$ related
Post by: solarismka on 15 May 2004, 11:30
I don't know about benchmarks or whatever.  By being a sysadmin for a company I have worked with Windows/IIS and Linux/Apache.

I will always say Linux/Apache beats out windows/IIs anyday!  Pluse its cheaper.

AIX.  Oh yea that has to be A Good system.  Even som e banks run it.  The smart ones at least.  :D    (http://tongue.gif)
Title: webservers performance.. linuxoze vs M$ related
Post by: preacher on 15 May 2004, 16:28
I am sick of even wasting my time with you Insomnia. You are as bad as those people who think anything that isn't open source should be destroyed. Completely unwilling to face facts. Anything that doesn't agree with what you believe is a lie.
Title: webservers performance.. linuxoze vs M$ related
Post by: flap on 15 May 2004, 17:16
quote:
You are as bad as those people who think anything that isn't open source should be destroyed.


I agree that that's wrong. Anything that isn't free software should be destroyed.
Title: webservers performance.. linuxoze vs M$ related
Post by: Xeen on 16 May 2004, 01:28
Can you please stop adding "-oze" to everything?
Title: webservers performance.. linuxoze vs M$ related
Post by: preacher on 16 May 2004, 19:49
quote:
Originally posted by flap:


I agree that that's wrong. Anything that isn't free software should be destroyed.



Well we had better destroy almost every computer game ever made. Goodbye Warcraft III, Sim City 4, Quake 3 Arena. You aren't free so you should be destroyed according to flap.

The problem with free software is games. Games would suffer the most from being free software. There would be nothing preventing competing companies from using your source code to create their own games and put you out of business.

For example the source code leak for Half-Life 2 was potentially devastating. That is why the game has yet to be released.

[ May 16, 2004: Message edited by: ThePreacher ]

Title: webservers performance.. linuxoze vs M$ related
Post by: insomnia on 17 May 2004, 04:26
quote:
Originally posted by ThePreacher:


Well we had better destroy almost every computer game ever made. Goodbye Warcraft III, Sim City 4, Quake 3 Arena. You aren't free so you should be destroyed according to flap.

The problem with free software is games. Games would suffer the most from being free software. There would be nothing preventing competing companies from using your source code to create their own games and put you out of business.

For example the source code leak for Half-Life 2 was potentially devastating. That is why the game has yet to be released.

[ May 16, 2004: Message edited by: ThePreacher ]




Make it all free.
Problem solved.
Title: webservers performance.. linuxoze vs M$ related
Post by: insomnia on 17 May 2004, 06:34
Patents do not protect ideas and people.
They only protect rich firms who suck the blood out of working people.

PS. I know you're not stupid, so you have no excuse to act like this.
Claiming IIS performs better than Apache on small and medium servers is simply ridiculous.

[ May 16, 2004: Message edited by: insomnia ]