Stop Microsoft
Operating Systems => Linux and UNIX => Topic started by: RudeCat7 on 7 October 2002, 10:22
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I wont beg...
Red pill or Blue pill?
Version 8.0 Pro (http://www.linuxcd.org/view_item.php?id_version=130) :D
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I have never used SuSe so I can't recommend it one way or the other. Many others on here like it though. Are those ISO images that I see available for download? Isn't 8.0 their latest release? Hmmm, they must have changed their policy about not releasing the latest i386 ISOs. I might have to grab them and give it a shot...
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Yes, yes, and Ohh yeahhhhh! ;)
use GUNZIP, and you only need the first disc for the default install without office. Mozilla is also available with only the first disk. Yast2 is like the redhat package manager. I already installed 8.0 on my spare box.
Next...main box with new 40gig HD. Oh, and forget the windows dual boot!!! I'm going hardcore!!!
(my wife finally got pissed at the windows partition because it wouldn't even load properly to save some recipes in m$ word) :D
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Downloading now.... I'll certainly post a review. But of course I won't post it 5 minutes after my first look like I did with RedHat 8.0 which turned out to be a crap review. (http://smile.gif)
P.S. Sorry my Cardinals had to beat up on your Diamondbacks so badly. (http://smile.gif)
[ October 07, 2002: Message edited by: void main ]
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meh... its gud to post your immediate thoughts and first impressions and then later post what its really all about.
well... the crappy ass link to the iso.gz doesnt work for me.
[ October 07, 2002: Message edited by: The Master of Reality / Bob ]
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Heh. I don't think that's a *legal* download. SuSE 8.0 pro? They're crazy to release it as a download!
Besides, don't programs that are not downloadable get on SuSE Pro (StarOffice, for example?)? I'm not too sure if Sun would be too happy about that.
Oh well. Seeing as I have no ethics anyway, I'll download it.
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quote:
Originally posted by The Master of Reality / Bob:
meh... its gud to post your immediate thoughts and first impressions and then later post what its really all about.
well... the crappy ass link to the iso.gz doesnt work for me.
[ October 07, 2002: Message edited by: The Master of Reality / Bob ]
It was busy for me but I just set ncftpget to retry 99 times and eventually it let me start the download after which it was quite fast actually.
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quote:
Originally posted by TheQuirk:
Heh. I don't think that's a *legal* download. SuSE 8.0 pro? They're crazy to release it as a download!
They are? Well they certainly would never had a chance of having me as a customer without a free download. RedHat has been giving out free downloads since the beginning. And they don't have any plans of stopping that. In fact SuSe is the *only* distro I know of (besides Lindows) that doesn't allow a free download. I just have CD1 downloaded now, haven't yet tried to install it but will do that now.
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i always figured that it was not frr to download b/c of all the extra programs it came with. Star Office you now have to buy but it comes with that so i was like i am getting that to tha is part of the price. also SuSE seems to come with alot more goodies then Red Hat. it being 7 cd's and all. when i was done installing it i did not need to install any other programs it came with them all while Red Hat i had to go online and get several
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quote:
In fact SuSe is the *only* distro I know of (besides Lindows) that doesn't allow a free download.
SuSE doens't offer the traditionnal Iso download that's correct, however you can do an ftp install from their site.
The reason for it is that this way they are always able to offer the latest OS/files for download.
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I knew that, but I want ISO files. I want to download ISOs, burn CDs, install on machines that aren't connected to the net. Yes I know I can create my own ISOs but I don't have the time.
What's so hard for the vendor to not provide ISO files in addition to their traditional methods? You can bet it's not for the reason of always having the latest stuff. It's to make it painful, and easier to just go out and buy the CD. Nothing wrong with that, just won't ever get my business no matter how twisted my view may be on it.
If the version I just downloaded from linuxcds is legit then it would appear that SuSe has changed their policy and they now might get my business. I purchase things when I am satisfied, but not before.
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Surely the point of what they're doing is to make it less convenient to download so people will be forced to buy it?
If it's all free software then there's no reason why it would be illegal for someone else to offer isos... or is any of the distro under some non-free licence?
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yast is not GPL and has limitations but it is still open source. You would have to read the license to see the commercial restrictions.. The restrictions if I recall prevent someone from making a new distro out of their distro (like how Mandrake was created from RedHat). Could be wrong, enlighten us if you read it differently.
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I just read the yast licence at http://www.suse.de/us/private/support/licenses/yast.html (http://www.suse.de/us/private/support/licenses/yast.html)
Distributing yast free of charge appears to be legal, but consent from suse is required if you want to charge for it. Personally I'd steer clear of this distro.
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These are fairly good points void main, I guess I'm too much inclined to not see the dark side of people until I get a smack on the head (http://smile.gif)
Oh well, I like the OS and while I understand your point of view I still see nothing wrong in the commercial attitude SuSE is adopting here.
Sure from an ethical point of view Redhat, Debian and c
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quote:
Originally posted by Ice9:
These are fairly good points void main, I guess I'm too much inclined to not see the dark side of people until I get a smack on the head (http://smile.gif)
Oh well, I like the OS and while I understand your point of view I still see nothing wrong in the commercial attitude SuSE is adopting here.
Don't get me wrong. I have no gripe with SuSe. If people want to purchase their product that's great. It's much, much, much, much better than going out and buying a Microsoft OS. They still promote the use of Linux in general which is a good thing. And the yast license is a completely minor issue. The not having ISOs available is a personal issue and not a big one, just big enough to be one of the reasons I favor another distro.
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Sure from an ethical point of view Redhat, Debian and c
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Good points again (http://smile.gif)
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quote:
Originally posted by void main:
They are?
Damn right they are. You're downloading not-free-software as a free download. So either SuSe decided to pay lots of different companies cash per every download, or you're downloading an illegal download (warez).
[ October 07, 2002: Message edited by: TheQuirk ]
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quote:
Originally posted by TheQuirk:
Damn right they are. You're downloading not-free-software as a free download. So either SuSe decided to pay lots of different companies cash per every download, or you're downloading an illegal download (warez).
Looks like www.linuxcd.org (http://www.linuxcd.org) resides in France. I don't see how they would have it available for long if they don't have it available for legit. I would think if they changed their policy that www.linuxiso.org (http://www.linuxiso.org) would also have it, maybe they will soon?
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quote:
Originally posted by TheQuirk:
Damn right they are. You're downloading not-free-software as a free download. So either SuSe decided to pay lots of different companies cash per every download, or you're downloading an illegal download (warez).
[ October 07, 2002: Message edited by: TheQuirk ]
Are there any other non-free packages other than StarOffice? I haven't got to the point yet to see if that is included. They could include OpenOffice just as easily in a free ISO download. But I don't want to install it if I will be installing warez. I haven't been able to find anything to this point to prove one way or the other.
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Actually SuSE 8.0 came with Starofice 5.2, not 6 and now with the release of 8.1 they have included Openoffice.
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You are correct. I noticed the StarOffice 5.2 libraries during the install. I hate 5.2. Good move on the OOo 1.x for the new release, but that brings up the fact that I am not getting the latest release. (http://smile.gif) Guess things haven't changed unless I can get 8.1 in ISO form. I believe they always have offered the previous release in ISO format. Again, nothing wrong with that.
I just started up a new VMware session, selected the first ISO to act as my CD-ROM drive and started installing SuSe 8.0 in a VMware session. The installation menu is stupid simple (good thing). I looked through all the options and chose to do a default install on my 4GB virtual disk.
Unfortunately a default install also needs the second disk. No problem, I want to get them all anyhow and am downloading the second disk now. The install will be on hold until that point (I could start a fresh minimal install but I'll just wait, no hurry).
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Ok, posting this from Konqueror running under SuSe 8.0 which is running under VMware running under RedHat 8.0. (http://smile.gif) Looks very nice so far (familiar old KDE 3.x). Very polished. Lotsa graphical system tools etc.
How come none of the KDE people got pissed at Suse for changing the default look to a SuSe look like they did with RedHat? I don't see where RedHat did any more hacking to KDE's looks than SuSe has. Don't know why I mention it because it doesn't bother me in either case.
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how do you set the command on 99? I did this. WHats missing?
i typed ncftpget then the addy (ftp bla bla bla). But how do you set it on 99?
[ October 08, 2002: Message edited by: bazoukas ]
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This is how I start an ISO download from the command line:
This allows up to 99 login failures due to too many users, etc. It also runs ncftp in the background so I don't have to keep the shell open and can log off. Or if I accidentally close the shell the download continues. Plus I can just press the UPARROW and change the 1 to a 2 to get the second ISO, etc.
Of course there are ncftp switches that will kick the download off in the background as well, but the & works just as well.
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i should be writing all thid own. THese are freaking cool tricks.
thanks voidman
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oh yeah. I can see the program running in the backround. Mucho excellento.
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Actually it all becomes second nature after you have been using *NIX a little while (that doesn't mean using the GUI). And the retry option is in the man page (man ncftpget). (http://smile.gif)
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Another helpful trick if you don't already use it is copy/paste in your terminal window. For instance, right click on a link to a file in a web page an do a "Copy Link Location" (or equivelant depending on browser). Then type "ncftpget" or "wget" and a space, then press both mouse buttons simultaneously in the terminal window and it will paste the link right in there, then just press enter.
I use this a lot when downloading RPMs on remote machines. I might be SSHed into a machine and have a browser on my local machine open. Copy the RPM URL and paste it into my wget command in the remote server. You can copy text from other locations in your terminal just by dragging your left mouse button, then click both buttons to paste it at your cursor location (actually this works in any X apps including KDE and Gnome apps).
Actually you can use tab completion on the command line and save even more typing like instead of typing "wget ", you could just type "wg" followed by TAB, then paste in your URL and press enter. Obviously this example didn't save a lot of keystrokes but every little bit helps.
But you pick up thousands of these little tips. The more you pick up the easier life gets and the more you begin to see the light.
[ October 08, 2002: Message edited by: void main ]
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VoidMan, the more i read your posts the more stupid i feel, in a way that basicaly i dont know jackshit about Linux.
I go to school and dazle them with what i learn from here and from the RH7.3 book i have, about Linux and actually some of the people call me "The Linux man".
I think to my self. You poor bastard i am halfblind but you dont know it. :D
Anywho, i checked on the proccess status and it says that its in a sleep mode. :( :confused:
I highlighted what you wrote and paste it and hit enter btw.
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Did the download start? That is do you see any of the ISO file in the directory that you were in when you issued the ncftp command? If there is I usually start a watch on that file by typing this on the command line in the directory that the files are downloading:
This will clear your screen and do a directory listing every five seconds until you break out with a ^C or close the shell.
ncftpget will probably be in the sleep state much of the time it is downloading as when transferring a file over a slow network (yes Cable/DSL are slow networks) much of the time it will be in a sleep state. That doesn't mean it's not working as hard as it can with the amount of bandwidth available. You'll be lucky to catch it in a non-sleep state actually.
In fact if it's a little slow you can blame me, I'm downloading disc 3 now. It only took a few hours to get disc 1 and 2.
[ October 08, 2002: Message edited by: void main ]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ex Eleven / b0b:
Windows Partion was missing off Hard Disk was missing when i came home.
Did it run off with your girl friend? (http://smile.gif) Good for you on keeping RedHat in business for the rest of us scum bags to enjoy. I'm not completely decided on it yet. I didn't like it for the first hour as it seemed like quite a change and then things started turning around. I'm convinced it's 300% better for new users. But because they upgraded the compiler some 3rd party software sources need to be updated to work with it. That'll happen over time of course.
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hmmmm now from sleeping it went to zombie.
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It shouldn't have done that. My 3rd ISO download just clicked over 300MB. Is there anything in your /tmp/suse.out file?
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aaaaaaaaaaaallright its working. Its attepting to connect te he he he
-rw------- 1 geo geo 328498 Sep 29 11:16 winrg.swf
this message keeps coming up. I am under the impression that it tries to connect.
[ October 08, 2002: Message edited by: bazoukas ]
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Uh? Ya lost me on that one.
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i typed
ftp://ftp.fi.upm.es:21/pub/mirrors/linux/distributions/SuSE/su8000_001.iso.gz (http://ftp://ftp.fi.upm.es:21/pub/mirrors/linux/distributions/SuSE/su8000_001.iso.gz)
then i typed the code you gave me and it gave a listing of my home directory and
-rw------- 1 bazoukas bazoukas 328498 Sep 29 11:16 winrg.sw
is the last line in the shell that keeps flashing.
ncftpget: cannot open ftp.fi.upm.es: username and/or password was not accepted for login. thats in temp suse.
I think i fucked it up somewhere.
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh.... me brains hurts from that and trying to install slackware to my laptop am gonna try again tomorow!!!!!!!!!!
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I see. I never download stuff into my home directory. In fact I have a separate area that I put ISOs in. I have a work directory called "/work" and under it I have several directories, one of which called "iso", under that I have several directories like "SuSe", "RedHat", etc. I put the SuSe files in "/work/iso/SuSe" to keep everything clean. Which directory were you in when you started the "ncftp" command? That's the directory your file would download to.
For instance, before downloading the SuSe ISOs I changed into "/work/iso/SuSe" by typing "cd /work/iso/SuSe" then run the ncftpget command in the earlier post, then I start the "ls -l" loop to watch the directory. You should see the "su8000_001.iso.gz" filename appear once ncftp starts downloading it. And every 5 seconds it does another directory listing so you can watch the file size increase.
If there is an error it will go to the "/tmp/suse.out" file if you used the ncftpget command that I posted in my message. If you wanted to keep an eye on the contents of that file you could, in another window, type "tail -f /tmp/suse.out". If there are any error messages in the file they would have popped up on the screen. Any time a new error is entered into that file it will immediately show on your screen. The file should be completely empty if things are working properly and should stay that way.
Of course all of the above may sound "extremely" complicated but after you get the hang of doing things this way it becomes second nature and easy. And it will all work the same whether you are working in a local shell or on a remote shell on a server on the other side of the earth.
You could always use a graphical FTP client but then you tie up part of your GUI for hours unnecessarily and have to stay logged in. Running things in the background gives you freedom.