Stop Microsoft
Operating Systems => Linux and UNIX => Topic started by: Enquiptor_125 on 11 July 2003, 23:22
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Hello all,
I have a few questions about Linux.
First off, i love to play the latest games on pc. Is Linux ever going to have a feature where you can play the latest games easily?
Also, im fed up with Microsoft, but the reasons im not switching are because of game problems and Linux is hard to learn. Im just wondering if Linux will eer step up to a higher level (when) Microsoft dies.
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quote:
Originally posted by Enquiptor_125:
Hello all,
I have a few questions about Linux.
First off, i love to play the latest games on pc. Is Linux ever going to have a feature where you can play the latest games easily?
Also, im fed up with Microsoft, but the reasons im not switching are because of game problems and Linux is hard to learn. Im just wondering if Linux will eer step up to a higher level (when) Microsoft dies.
Im sorry say it but you've set yourself up for some really hostile posts
let the games begin
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The only reason Linux does not support many games is because many game developers don't make games for Linux. Theres nothing wrong with the os or the people who make it. The problem is with the people who make the games.
Right now less than 10% of home users run Linux. Right now our goal is to get more home users to switch to Linux or Mac. The more people switch the more pressure there will be to make games for Linux.
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quote:
Originally posted by Enquiptor_125:
Hello all,
I have a few questions about Linux.
First off, i love to play the latest games on pc. Is Linux ever going to have a feature where you can play the latest games easily?
Also, im fed up with Microsoft, but the reasons im not switching are because of game problems and Linux is hard to learn. Im just wondering if Linux will eer step up to a higher level (when) Microsoft dies.
I though this has been asked and answered before???
my answer to that would be to get a games console, that's what there for?
However there are games on *nixes, but admittedly there tends to be less 'big' game development done than on the Wintel platform. This will change. Depends what you're after though doesn't it.
Here's some links:
LG (http://lgdc.sunsite.dk/resources/category19.html)
LG II (http://games.linux.sk/index.php)
If you want something specific, I suggest you Google it.
Also don't assume that Linux is going to be 'hard' and in terms of Linux steping up to a higher level, it left Window$ in the dust years ago.
Hope this helps
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thanks everyone, but im still kind of confused.
I have heard that Linux on the desktop is close to being a mass market option and could unseat MacOS as the second operating system of choice.
Well, lets say it did... im not saying that there is a problem with Linux but i dont like the lack of software support for it. Im just saying, is it possible for Linux to have all the features of Windows, without the crashing, even though its just a kernel?
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quote:
Originally posted by Enquiptor_125:
thanks everyone, but im still kind of confused.
I have heard that Linux on the desktop is close to being a mass market option and could unseat MacOS as the second operating system of choice.
Well, lets say it did... im not saying that there is a problem with Linux but i dont like the lack of software support for it. Im just saying, is it possible for Linux to have all the features of Windows, without the crashing, even though its just a kernel?
Yeah strictly speaking Linux is just a kernel, but it is often used colloquially to mean GNU+Linux and a complete distribution of such, and everybody knows that.
Anyway, what do you mean by "features?" Linux is, IMHO, just as full of USEFUL features as Windows.
It even has the capabilities of playing beautiful games, provided these games are written naitively for Linux, or are compatible with wine.
If by features, you mean "runs all windows software perfectly," NO. The wine compatibility layer is a painstaking reverse engineering of a proprietary, undocumented, ever-changing, and ugly set of API's. I'm friggen amazed that it works as well as it does.
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Also, why cant Linux support the latest hardware? Im a big hardware fan and always have the latest hardware. FOr example... wouldent it be impossible for Linux to run, say, the new Athlon 64 that is coming out that uses 64 bit?
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Ermm, actually Linux is way ahead of the game on M$ on that one. Suse Linux have already released a 64 bit OS. It's their Enterprise Server OS admitedly. I guess their standard offering will also be 64bit soon will follow soon. M$ are way behind on this.
Don't be under the impression that it's M$ that's makes all the innovations or sets the trends here. far from it.
As for Linux over taking OS X, well that's a debate altogether and frankly possibly a persoanl opinion at best. If you want an excellent OS that's easy to use, 1000 times better than anything M$ could ever produce and "mainstream", you can't beat OS X. You also can beat a good Linux.
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Sorry (hope I don't sound patronising) but you do realize that OS X is also Unix based.
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quote:
Originally posted by Zardoz:
.......you can't beat OS X. You also can beat a good Linux.
Bloody hell sorry should read:
".......you can't beat OS X. You also can't beat a good Linux."
We need edit on this board, I need to check my posts better.
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quote:
Originally posted by Zardoz:
Bloody hell sorry should read:
".......you can't beat OS X. You also can't beat a good Linux."
We need edit on this board, I need to check my posts better.
edit is right to the left of the quote button
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I feel stupid now :rolleyes:
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Linux may seem hard at first because it's different. But it's really not any harder to use than Windows or Mac OS. As far as software goes, there's tons of software available. Granted, it's not in the stores right now, but you've got plenty of choices.
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Oh suselinux your right about hostile posts. :mad: :mad:
Windows and Linux both have what are called APIs. API stands for Advanced Program Interface. It's the method that programs use to tell the OS stuff, including graphics and the likes. The Windows and Linux one are incompatible with each other because they are completely different systems. There's no 'feature' to add to Linux short of implementing the Windows API fully (which is a HUGE task that WINE is already trying to do, albeit the Windows API is very bad and proprietary, so its difficult). As for hardware, Linux probably supports more hardware than you've seen in your life. I have never encountered a peice of hardware that is not supported by Linux. Please name some if you have some.
Also it is not the responsibility of Linux developers to make games work in Linux. It's the game developers responsibility. Linux has all the features needed for modern games, full hardware acceleration on most cards that support it, joystick support, full 3d sound libraries (openal), and full support for OpenGL (mesagl). Anything else is undoubtedly supported or in the process of being supported by some 3rd party.
I play a lot of games on Linux. Here's some of em:
Parsec
Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory
Cube
Vendetta (test demo, full isnt done yet)
Vega Strike
All the UT games are ported I believe, if not, they are probably in the process of being ported now.
Postal 2 is being ported also, cant wait.
Loki Games (now defunct) used to port a lot of games like Hexen 2 etc (http://www.lokigames.com)
More and more game developers are supporting Linux.
If you want to help Linux get more games then you should just dual boot Linux and Windows and email all the game developers askign them about Linux ports of the games you want. The more people whine to them, the more they consider Linux porting worthwhile. Make sure to mention that you would gladly pay for the Linux port, they always like getting money (of course) (http://smile.gif) . Although it would be nice if they open sourced it, they probably can't, due to 3rd party licensed code that doesn't belong to them. But if you think they would do it, don't hesitate to ask them about it.
The Linux game market keeps getting bigger, with open source AND commercial ports of software. Never Winter Nights btw is in progress and should be released soon. Try tuxgames.com for that one, they are taking preorders.
The thing that gets game developers to port is knowing that they have people that will play and purchase their games!!! it has nothing to do with OS features, Linux has all the needed stuff.
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quote:
Originally posted by Enquiptor_125:
...and Linux is hard to learn. Im just wondering if Linux will eer step up to a higher level (when) Microsoft dies.
What are you talking about? Have you even tried Linux yet? It's not hard, Stryker's mum, a first-time computer user, used it fine, and thought it was easier than Windows. Are you braindead? Linux isn't designed for braindead people, but people who can say the word 'computer' shoudl be able to use it.
Stepping up to a higher-level? It has. 64-bit computing is already supported in the Linux kernel, it's only a matter of time before the distribution makers release their 64-bit versions of their distros.
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You should read over the package list at debian.org sometime. We have software packages far better than Windows in all areas bar gaming, but even there its not as bad as everyone says. Personally the _only_ game I have that I (a)like and (b)need windows for is Morrowind. And that's getting dull too. On Linux I play a lot of UT2003, Starcraft (Warcraft 3 is *sooo* crap people (although it runs in Linux as well),) and of course half life mods. (Basically just keep the Day of Defeat guys away from the Counterstrike guys and life is rosy.) Oh and I nearly forgot enemy territory, great game there. Needs more levels though. As soon as Doom 3 comes out I'm grabbing that and shoving that on my Linux box too. (If it's made by id software it will run in Linux - John Carmack loves us. ;) ) Oh and that of course includes Quake 3 although my love for quake games has been steadily decreasing since Quake 1. Check out LinuxGaming.org ( <== not sure if thats the right link, but I think someone else already posted it anway.) Speaking of half life mods is anyone else here into "The Specialists?" Im getting a copy of Never Winter nights as well, although I don't think there have been many good RPG games of late on any platform. Even the Final Fantasy series has got dull. Anyway gaming on Linux is entirely possible. Now to see if I can get the Multi Theft Auto GTA3 mod up. ;)
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Oh and we support a broader range of platforms than Windows does. re:64 bit, I would like to see figures on how long Linux actually has supported 64 bit processors - sparc versions have been around for how long now?
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damnit, linux supports 64 bit already, hell, if i had an athlon64 i could be running 64bit linux NOW, not a gazillion years from now when win64 is decent /* winxp64 anybody?.....*/
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If you get a program called winex then you can run some windows games in linux. This program costs money. So I suggest you download a P2P program called emule and search for winex.
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I've got an attitude about chess, when your computer game is around for 1000 years we'll talk.
If you are only interested in games and the latest hardware to play them on, then you should get a console or stick to XP, for a while.
I feel Linux and OSS strength's are in the science/server world. Reading in the Wall Street Journal I note that Oracle (2nd only to M$) is getting its ass kicked by MySQL. The U.S. Dept. of Defense is using Linux, so they should have some of the best games availible in a few years, that reality might be too scary for a armchair worrior.
Microsoft will not die on its own, it will be supplanted by Linux. It will take time, about ten years. Its all about the communal mind developing the next generation of computing and thats a more exciting game.
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quote:
Originally posted by Enquiptor_125:
Hello all,
I have a few questions about Linux.
First off, i love to play the latest games on pc. Is Linux ever going to have a feature where you can play the latest games easily?
Also, im fed up with Microsoft, but the reasons im not switching are because of game problems and
ok, so far great, you sound open minded and enquisitive, and best of all you sound positive, however: quote:
Linux is hard to learn. Im just wondering if Linux will eer step up to a higher level (when) Microsoft dies.
if you do not see that linux is at many higher levels than any of microsoft's offerings in many areas then you have already missed the boat.
i don't have time to explain the whole situation in full sadly, but i am sure other people will. don't take any criticism people might have to heart but do realise that saying things which imply that windows sucks less than linux is like daring a madman with a paintgun to shoot you in the eyes.
welcome to the forums btw.
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Originally posted by TheKnifeThrower:
If you get a program called winex then you can run some windows games in linux. This program costs money. So I suggest you download a P2P program called emule and search for winex.
I thought we didn't encourage warez on these boards.
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No; a lot of people on these boards advocate actually paying for the privilege of having their rights restricted through the purchase of proprietary software.
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I thought we didn't encourage warez on these boards.
You don't have to mindlessly abide by their "policy". Yes; discourage the use of proprietary software in all circumstances, but don't ever discourage copying because the law says it's wrong.
[ July 15, 2003: Message edited by: flap ]
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Actually, a lot of people on these boards advocate giving developpers the priviledge of making a living. And how can you be restricted when you never had the right in the first place?
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but don't ever discourage copying because the law says it's wrong.
But because the law says it is wrong to kill, we should ignore such a stupid rule, right? :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Laukev7:
But because the law says it is wrong to kill, we should ignore such a stupid rule, right? :rolleyes:
So you are saying every law is right? I believe there was a thread about stupid laws. It's wrong for my friend to go into colville (a city on the other side of the state) without ringing a bell up and down the streets declaring his arrival, because he's black. It's wrong for anyone under 18 to own something. It's wrong to carry a license and a permit (2 forms of ID are required in a lot of places). It's wrong to carry a gun without a permit (very stupid law, very debatable). Because the law says so?
There are good laws and there are bad laws. I'm against mass producing something that the author said "dont do that" on. But that statement about murder was just dumb.
no offense or anything.
edit:
And it is NOT wrong to kill. It is wrong to murder.
[ July 15, 2003: Message edited by: Stryker ]
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So you are saying every law is right?
Now, you're generalising here. Not every law is right, but just because you say that does not mean that copying isn't wrong.
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It's wrong to carry a gun without a permit (very stupid law, very debatable). Because the law says so?
You may have noticed, but I live in Canada, so our perceptions may not be the same. Personally, I believe nobody should carry any weapon at all (and the Canadian law agrees with me). I also think that prostitution and marijuana should be legalised, just like in Netherlands, but the Canadian law does not agree with that (yet).
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And it is NOT wrong to kill. It is wrong to murder.
Whatever.
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Switching from copying to murder isn't generalizing?
What's wrong with having a weapon? It helps one's self esteem and makes them feel more secure. Not really on this topic though
With the marijuana and prostituation, it's illegal. Does that make it right? you only proved my point. I agree with you on those aspects, with certain restrictions. Such as... no pot while ur pregnant. Prostitution must be safe sex. I know you were trying to make the same point I am, but you didn't seem to do it very well.
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I DO agree that one should not blindly consider a law right just because it is the law. But you can't prove that a law is wrong simply by labelling it as a quia nominor leo. This was the point I was making when I switched from copying to murder.
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Eh, i'll cut over all the off topic stuff and get straight to the meat and potatoes. I've been a linux maniac since RedHat 6.0, i currently run Mandrake 9.0, and I've had a Linux on every machine I've ever owned. I love its GUI and its overall power and features.
Mind you, the learning curve is pretty steep, but the payoff is excellent. If you have the space whack out a partition, install a distro and start exploring. Ask us if ya have any problems, we whould be able to assist ya with whatever. It's a cool OS, and so far every guy I know that I've given it to has kept it installed and upgraded on their machine.
For most Windows users trying out Linux has had an effect simillar to the effect of chocolate cake to those that only eat bread and water.It's a liberating experience and you will become a believer if you keep and open mind.
And as for games I myself need windows to play on MSN Gaming Zone because i play Mechwarrior 4 Mercenaries. But now if i can get that stupid automount under control i might just try to get Zone and Mercs working on Linux and forego windows entirely. Wish me luck with that :rolleyes:
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Cant remember who it was but it was something to the effect of 'flap always appears when the topic of proprietary/software pirating is brought up'. Yup, and then Laukev fights back at flap and everyone gets involved. I used to pirate anything that costs money. I only pirate software now because they don't support Linux and I don't have Windows to run it on so if it runs in Wine I'll use it. I'm not gonna spend money on something I have to emulate. When Adobe starts releasing linux versions of Photoshop I'll start paying for it because I think that would be extroardinarily forward-looking of them and I would probably respect them more.
I pirated Adobe Photoshop 7 a few days ago to try it in Wine and it works, but of course no emulation is perfect. I do NOT advocate piracy on Windows because the software is guaranteed to work. Okay what I'm saying doesn't really make much sense but whatever.
imho you should obey the law, because it's the law and the general populace agree on it at this time. Just because you disagree with law does not mean you have the right to not obey it. However I see what flap is saying about not obeying just BECAUSE it is the law. You shouldn't like it just because it's the law. My god I'm so rambly today i'm just gonna stfu.
[ July 16, 2003: Message edited by: Fury: Freedom Fighter ]
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You may have noticed, but I live in Canada, so our perceptions may not be the same. Personally, I believe nobody should carry any weapon at all (and the Canadian law agrees with me). I also think that prostitution and marijuana should be legalised, just like in Netherlands, but the Canadian law does not agree with that (yet).
I'd like to pipe in here about a subject I feel extremely strong about. Canadians are not anti-gun pacifists, there are plenty of pro-gun Canadians(I totally agree with Striker that needing a permit is BS, even worse is needing a permit that is extremly difficult to get just for personal protection purposes), it's just that Canadians and firearms are not stereotypical like in the US.
I also agree with Striker about questioning laws.
We shouldn't encourage Warez on these boards, but there ain't much point in discouraging it either. Just keep quiet on the subject, that's all. (http://smile.gif)
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Originally posted by lazygamer:
I'd like to pipe in here about a subject I feel extremely strong about. Canadians are not anti-gun pacifists, there are plenty of pro-gun Canadians(I totally agree with Striker that needing a permit is BS, even worse is needing a permit that is extremly difficult to get just for personal protection purposes), it's just that Canadians and firearms are not stereotypical like in the US.
I also agree with Striker about questioning laws.
We shouldn't encourage Warez on these boards, but there ain't much point in discouraging it either. Just keep quiet on the subject, that's all. (http://smile.gif)
I did not speak for all Canadians, hence the key word 'Personally', and I respect your opinion, Lazygamer. And, as I said before, I never disagreed that we should not question laws; in fact, I do question some of our own. My point was that evocating that truth does not prove a law right or wrong.
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I'm aware that you don't speak for all Canadians, I just felt that the people outside of Canada needed to see that there are canadians on both sides of the issue, just in case they feel Canada is very one sided towards the issue. (http://smile.gif)
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Cant remember who it was but it was something to the effect of 'flap always appears when the topic of proprietary/software pirating is brought up'.
That was me. I do admit that it was quite hypocritical of me to say that. :D
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Originally posted by flap:
You don't have to mindlessly abide by their "policy". Yes; discourage the use of proprietary software in all circumstances, but don't ever discourage copying because the law says it's wrong.
[ July 15, 2003: Message edited by: flap ]
How about discouraging copying because its morally wrong?
Yeah there are white and grey areas, but saying something like "company X sells product Y but you should not pay company X because you can download product Y for free on a p2p network" isn't one of them.
I like Linus' philosophy "What's ours is ours and what's theirs is theirs."
[ July 19, 2003: Message edited by: M. O'Brien ]
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I'm not of the misguided opinion that copying is wrong.
And Linus doesn't have any "philosophy" - he's just an apolitical nerd. He could have done a lot of good for the free software movement but he doesn't particularly believe in it.
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I'm not of the misguided opinion that copying is wrong.
What an overbearing claim. Who are you to dictate what is misguided?
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Immitation is the highest form of flattery. If people didn't copy to some extent we'd never have left the dark ages. The Renaissance would have never happened.
I think there is often confusion between term copying and plagerism.
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"What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done there is nothing new under the sun"
ECC 1:9
So in certain respects the law at the moment is draconian, obviously it has been set up to protect peoples rights and property but I think sometimes lawyers get carried away with it?
[ July 20, 2003: Message edited by: Zardoz ]