Stop Microsoft
Operating Systems => macOS => Topic started by: slave on 25 May 2002, 04:51
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http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/may2002/tc20020522_5198.htm (http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/may2002/tc20020522_5198.htm)
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quote:
Originally posted by Windows XP User #5225982375:
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/may2002/tc20020522_5198.htm (http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/may2002/tc20020522_5198.htm)
Who are you Windows XP User? I must know, your so uterly clueless.
This guy is arguing that iChat and iTunes ar knock offs of third party stuff?
give me a fucking break! iChat is a Chat client, there are dozens, of chat clients. A few are compatible with several standards such as AOL. Likewise iTunes like software has and still does exist. MacAmp anyone?
None the less,
The guy in the article ends up actually praising Apple for makeing better, more stable versions.
Christ dude, get your head on straight.
It's not like Apple claimed the invented the chat client or MP3 player, they just offer their own. And if you don't like it, drag it to the trash and it's gone. Unlike some other OS's I know of.
guess what I did a few days ago.
i threw away IE. And It's gone, not a trace of it on my system.
Good ridance.
EDIT:
Oh ya, not to mention that the writer is an obviously M$ biased windoid as he is a bit cluless as to what goes on in the Have a look at this:
http://osx.hyperjeff.net/ (http://osx.hyperjeff.net/)
Excellent collection of 3rd party stuff that can make your computer do anything short of standing up and tapdancing.
so go shove a M$ laser mouse up your butt and wag the chord like a tail.
[ May 24, 2002: Message edited by: psyjax ]
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Then why do you have this double standard of when Apple knocks off stuff you don't have a problem with it and actually praise them for it, but to this day I still hear Mac users cursing Microsoft for stealing the idea of a GUI from them.. give me a break. And don't get me started on open source... they've never innovated anything.
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quote:
Originally posted by Windows XP User #5225982375:
Then why do you have this double standard of when Apple knocks off stuff you don't have a problem with it and actually praise them for it, but to this day I still hear Mac users cursing Microsoft for stealing the idea of a GUI from them.. give me a break. And don't get me started on open source... they've never innovated anything.
Because unlike M$, Apple actually does make a better product. Dosn't attempt to squeltch all competition, dosn't undermind the makers of 3rd party apps. Often, in the case of iTunes etc., the application goes far beyond third party alternatives and is a total keeper.
M$ will put out crap like Windows, WMP, or IE then force people to use it. Windows was a blatant lift from the MacOS and OS2 warp were they blatantly fucked several companys over to force them down peoples throats not to mention OEM's etc.
Besides, this guy is a dipshit. Back in the days of OS 7 where there was no control strip, I used a 3rd party app that gave me a psudo controll strip. When the new OS came out, I scraped the Ap because apples control strip was better. Not that I couldent use the alternative of cource cuz apple did nothing to prevent me from doing that.
See, it's a matter of choice and ethics. If Apple came out with iTunes, wired it in to OS X, then made it a living hell to throw away or run MacAmp (which I like cuz you can record streming radio with it). Not only that, but apple went after MacAmp with FUD tactics, predetory tactics, and an army of lawyers like M$ does then I would be complaining.
Also, another cool thing, is you don't have to install what you don't want to use. The Installer actually lets you customize the OS down to it's bear essentials!!! WOW what a concept!
So get lost.
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Why do you say IE and WMP are shit? IE is currently the best web browser in the world, it initially wasn't but Netscape was slow and overconfident, and Microsoft worked hard and beat them. And WMP, while not perfect, plays video very well. I personally use WinAmp for audio, however. Quicktime on Windows sucks donkey balls and consumes much RAM; so does RealPlayer which is huge spyware and all that other 3rd party rubbish. Microsoft is where it is because I believe they make the highest quality software. It has taken them a while to get there but Windows XP is a great OS and only a fruitcake would complain about anything in it. If there were something better, people would be using it. The Mac OS may arguably be better but the Mac hardware and price tag sure aren't! And now Microsoft will soon release a service pack to Windows XP that will let you easily install and uninstall all of Microsoft's bundled software.
http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104-922147.html (http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104-922147.html)
It is beyond me why anyone would want to do this, since IE kicks Netscape's ass, and that open-source abomination Mozilla that is buggy as hell and takes 30 seconds to load. However, not everyone wants MSN messenger or WMP installed, I guess. So no more whining from anyone about MS forcing people to use their products; they never have anyway and now they are even letting competitors put their stuff in Microsoft's own OS! I'd like to see Apple even let you buy a Mac that doesn't come with their OS or god forbid buy one from a 3rd party source.
[ May 24, 2002: Message edited by: Windows XP User #5225982375 ]
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#1 Mozilla wipes the floor with IE on OS X.
#2 It sure took alot of court time and littigation to force M$ to let their Iron grip lossen enugh to do something senseible like let the user customize the OS from the getgo.
If you like XP you can have it. Enjoy it, caress it, dream of it when you go to sleep.
I'm not going to bother shooting down all of your little arguments about why M$ is so wonderfull. There are plenty of articles on this site, and elsewhere that go thrugh it.
Im sure other forum members will be happy to.
But a word of advice,
Try another OS for a change, you just might see a diffrence that you didn't expect.
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quote:
Originally posted by Windows XP user 09380821098:
IE is currently the best web browser in the world, it initially wasn't but Netscape was slow and overconfident
Oh man, you really are a computer illiterate. Have you ever tried Mozilla, Konqueror, Opera, Galeon etc etc etc? Perhaps, you even think that M$ invented the Internet as well :eek: !
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..., and Microsoft worked hard and beat them
Oh yeah, they really worked hard didn't they? Perhaps, that's why their infamous web browser has more security holes than swiss fuckin' cheese, right? Boy, they really did work hard also to integrate their superb product into their "equally outstanding" excuse of an Operating System, so that you can't ever get rid of it? Oh, they also worked really hard just to let imbeciles like yourself think they're using the "best browser in the world"!
quote:
Microsoft is where it is because I believe they make the highest quality software
Where are you from anyway? Mars, Pluto, Venus, another solar system? Wherever you're from, keep dreaming!
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hehe... now that you mention M$'s hard work.
IE was born out of Mosaic. A webbrowser M$ stole, yes actualy stole, and whose parent company were subsequently destroyed and consumed by the Borg. Nice inovation M$, Im so glad you worked so hard on somebody elses grave.
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Thanks psyjax, that one slipped my mind ;) . Well, Windows XP user 0808032081274321801320, click on the "Help" button in IE and then click on the "About Internet Explorer" option. Just to give you some directions, so that you won't get lost. :D
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quote:
#1 Mozilla wipes the floor with IE on OS X.
Touch
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We did complain about the Mozilla bug. It was patched in record time. MacOS X is based on an open source OS, freeBSD UNIX. In essense it is UNIX as all *NIX's are pretty much the same in structure.
OS X did not destroy UNIX, like M$ did to mosaic. Nor did Apple try and shirk their obligations under the GPL licence. Darwin, the UNIX core, is open source and free to develop for. M$, a company devoted to illigalizing open source, has stolen OS components from the open source comunity, notably elements of FreeBSD and such. Recently they were even convicted of piracy in france.
As far as bugs, and patching go. Open source does it faster and more efficiently. M$ took forever to patch their most vulnerable bugs while Mozilla did it in under a month. Windows has allways been newutoriously buggy and bloated and M$ has allways draged their ass about fixing it. Then when a bug fix is finaly released they make you pay. Win 95 to Win 98 is everyones fav. example of an overpriced bugfix.
Also, M$'s bundling of IE into the interface, presents an inherant security risk. Because holes, like the one found in Mozilla, have existed and might still exist in IE it putts the entire OS at risk at more time. I can quit Mozilla and end any threat, you can't quit IE even if you tried.
Final, M$'s product activation and retrocative EULA are the most underhanded efforts to control the user experience I have ever heard of.
M$ is not a good company by any streach of the imagination. They live only fo money, and not a desire to actually make good products.
EDIT:
here are a few good links concerning M$'s long history of decite and trechery:
http://www.kmfms.com/ (http://www.kmfms.com/)
http://www.enemy.org/ (http://www.enemy.org/)
[ May 24, 2002: Message edited by: psyjax ]
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quote:
Originally posted by Windows XP User #5225982375:
[QB]
Touch
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quote:
Originally posted by Windows XP User #5225982375:
Why do you say IE and WMP are shit? IE is currently the best web browser in the world, it initially wasn't but Netscape was slow and overconfident, and Microsoft worked hard and beat them. And WMP, while not perfect, plays video very well. I personally use WinAmp for audio, however. Quicktime on Windows sucks donkey balls and consumes much RAM; so does RealPlayer which is huge spyware and all that other 3rd party rubbish. Microsoft is where it is because I believe they make the highest quality software. It has taken them a while to get there but Windows XP is a great OS and only a fruitcake would complain about anything in it. If there were something better, people would be using it. The Mac OS may arguably be better but the Mac hardware and price tag sure aren't! And now Microsoft will soon release a service pack to Windows XP that will let you easily install and uninstall all of Microsoft's bundled software.
http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104-922147.html (http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104-922147.html)
It is beyond me why anyone would want to do this, since IE kicks Netscape's ass, and that open-source abomination Mozilla that is buggy as hell and takes 30 seconds to load. However, not everyone wants MSN messenger or WMP installed, I guess. So no more whining from anyone about MS forcing people to use their products; they never have anyway and now they are even letting competitors put their stuff in Microsoft's own OS! I'd like to see Apple even let you buy a Mac that doesn't come with their OS or god forbid buy one from a 3rd party source.
[ May 24, 2002: Message edited by: Windows XP User #5225982375 ]
Mozilla kicks IE ass on Linux, and on windows. It doesnt take thiry seconds to load in windows if you use the quickstart, and it takes <1 second to load on Linux.
The new service pack just hides the software, which means that it is wasting valuable space on your system storing programs that you cant use.
Linux comes with thousands (literally) of third party apps that you can install while installing. Mac lets you install third party apps and doesnt jam their products down your throat (as psyjax alright mentioned).
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quote:
Originally posted by Zombie9920:
I made a topic pointing out how poorly Quicktime performs in Windows. The example in that topic is on a low quality mpeg. You should see how high the mem usage and CPU usage shoots up to in Quicktime with a high quality video(it exceeds 90%) while WMP still holds it's own at under 15%.
http://forum.fuckmicrosoft.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=000036 (http://forum.fuckmicrosoft.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=000036)
Some OS's can manage the CPU and RAM usage efficiently so that media files wont even crawl on an old machine. I can load up 3 or 4 .mpg's on my old iMac with minnimal speed hit.
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Oh boohoo, Microsoft bundles software with thier OS. It is thier OS so I think they should have the right to bundle whatever they want with it. It isn't like the bundled MS software cripples third party apps, so why piss and moan about it?
Besides..if you know what you are doing you can easily remove any bundled compenent from Windows(Like IE, Windows Messenger, WMP, etc.) without the need of any third party removers. Doesn't Apple bundle Finder with thier OS? Don't they bundle iTunes too?
http://www.ticz.com/homes/users/waltw/removec.jpg (http://www.ticz.com/homes/users/waltw/removec.jpg)
[ May 24, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]
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quote:
Originally posted by psyjax:
Some OS's can manage the CPU and RAM usage efficiently so that media files wont even crawl on an old machine. I can load up 3 or 4 .mpg's on my old iMac with minnimal speed hit.
Ehh, that wasn't no old machine buddy. That pic was taken on an Athlon XP 1600+ w/256MB of PC2100 DDR-Ram. The problem is, Apple doesn't know how to adopt hardware acceleration. Direct Draw 2D hardware acceleration for video playback (which WMP uses)makes a big difference in performance compared to software rendering(which Quicktime uses).
I don't know what Apples' problem is, but they just seem to be clueless on how to program thier stuff to use DirectX.
[ May 24, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]
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quote:
Originally posted by Windows XP User #5225982375:
I know Microsoft developed Internet Explorer out of Mosaic, but they've modified it so heavily it is now mostly Microsoft code.
A quote from "Return of the Jedi" comes to mind when I read this. "He
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quote:
Originally posted by Zombie9920:
Ehh, that wasn't no old machine buddy. That pic was taken on an Athlon XP 1600+ w/256MB of PC2100 DDR-Ram. The problem is, Apple doesn't know how to adopt hardware acceleration. Direct Draw 2D hardware acceleration for video playback (which WMP uses)makes a big difference in performance compared to software rendering(which Quicktime uses).
I don't know what Apples' problem is, but they just seem to be clueless on how to program thier stuff to use DirectX.
[ May 24, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]
I think I phrased that wrong. I was saying that Quicktime under OSX I can open 3 or 4 mpegs on my 233 iMac with a minnimal speed hit. when looking at the terminal QT takes up areound 20% or so of resources.
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quote:
Originally posted by Zombie9920:
Oh boohoo, Microsoft bundles software with thier OS. It is thier OS so I think they should have the right to bundle whatever they want with it. It isn't like the bundled MS software cripples third party apps, so why piss and moan about it?
Besides..if you know what you are doing you can easily remove any bundled compenent from Windows(Like IE, Windows Messenger, WMP, etc.) without the need of any third party removers. Doesn't Apple bundle Finder with thier OS? Don't they bundle iTunes too?
http://www.ticz.com/homes/users/waltw/removec.jpg (http://www.ticz.com/homes/users/waltw/removec.jpg)
[ May 24, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]
ya ya... but to uninstall iTunes or WMP all you do is delete the program. iTunes has a couple of folders in your user directory but thats about it for "hidden/embeded" files. Windows tends to give deep roots to whatever it bundles with their system.
As for the Finder, that basicaly is the OS. That's the window navigator and file browser. That's basically something akin to the program manager back in Win31 (of cource infinitly better).
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quote:
Originally posted by psyjax:
As for the Finder, that basicaly is the OS. That's the window navigator and file browser. That's basically something akin to the program manager back in Win31 (of cource infinitly better).
Just like IE functions as Windows Explorer(and makes Windows Explorer alot better). Personally I don't give a damn what Apple bundles with thier OS(I don't know why you guys worry about Microsofts' app bundling so much since you aren't using Windows)..because it is thier OS and they have the right to bundle whatever they want to bundle with it. The same applies for Windows...but you over zealous MS haters can't seem to understand that Windows is Microsofts' OS(it doesn't belong to no 3rd party) and Microsoft should have the right to put whatever they want to put into THIER software without a big fuss. The 3rd party software makers didn't make Windows, so why should thier apps be bundled with Windows? Microsoft on the other hand *did* make Windows, therefore Microsoft has the right to bundle whatever Microsoft app they want to bundle with thier Microsoft OS. Heck, even Linux has a bunch of crap that comes with it(the apps that are bundled with Linux easily surpasses the space required for MS's few small apps).
To make a long story short, you guys think that it isn't wrong to bundle apps with an OS unless Microsoft is the company doing it. Quit being so hypocritical and go bitch about Apple bundling stuff with thier OS and while your at it..go bitch about Apple selling Macs with MacOS pre-installed. You never see Macs sold with Linux(or any other alternative OS) pre-installed do you?
[ May 25, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]
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There is nothing wrong with bundling software with an OS. What is wrong is making it seem as though that OS needs that software when it doesn't, and making it impossible(or nearly) to uninstall.
Without Finder MacOS would be unusable(except OSX).
But without IE windows works very well. I removed IE from my computer and guess what? I didn't lose much functionality at all. And my system is more stable(unless I run one program I hppen to use alot).
Even MS themselves say that IE is not needed for Windows to work well(internal emails provided as evidence in the anti-trust suit). Even today Explorer does all the work, it gets it's extras(the ones that MS says IE provides) from 2 dll files that IE places in your system directory, as long as they are still there your system will be relatively the same. I know this because I removed IE but left those dll's.
And I don't mind MS bundling Windows Media Player, or MSN messanger, but I'd like to uninstall them(easily, without editing files, they should be removeable like any other program). They arent needed by the OS.
On a mac I can uninstall Quicktime or AOLIM(easily), so why not WMP and MSNIM on Windows?
[ May 25, 2002: Message edited by: Heru ]
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quote:
Originally posted by Windows XP User #5225982375:
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/may2002/tc20020522_5198.htm (http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/may2002/tc20020522_5198.htm)
I clicked that and a Flash advert for Windows and Office XP appeared smack in the middle of my screen. Do Apple even have Flash? quote:
Originally posted by Zombie9920:
I don't know what Apples' problem is, but they just seem to be clueless on how to program thier stuff to use DirectX.
So are id Software (Quake). quote:
Originally posted by psyjax:
Quicktime under OSX I can open 3 or 4 mpegs on my 233 iMac with a minnimal speed hit. when looking at the terminal QT takes up areound 20% or so of resources.
I think Apple know how to program for their own platform, just like Microsoft know how to program for theirs. quote:
Originally posted by Heru:
Without Finder MacOS would be unusable(except OSX).
But without IE windows works very well.
Bad comparison. quote:
On a mac I can uninstall AOLIM(easily)
Good.
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quote:
I clicked that and a Flash advert for Windows and Office XP appeared smack in the middle of my screen. Do Apple even have Flash?
My god your dumb.... Macromedia's site autodetects you and diverts you... Even Linux has flash you fuck.. And apple made the word "Multimedia" you dumb fuck. Microsoft just steal...
quote:
So are id Software (Quake).
Yes real games use OpenGL... but poor people like Goosebury clock have non OpenGL optimized 2mb Trident cards that give him 5fps in 400x300 in cs/hl. Real games with graphics as good as Quake 3 use OpenGL. Fuck off back to runescape you fagget!
quote:
I think Apple know how to program for their own platform, just like Microsoft know how to program for theirs.
So then whats with your gay little site
http://fuckapple.cjb.net (http://fuckapple.cjb.net)
you little shit 12 year old. (maybe 10)
I fucked your forums for you too....
HAPPY BSOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Windows 98 using peice of shit you are.
I will raise the core voltage on this clock-cunts ass and overClock him! (http://smile.gif)
:D
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quote:
About us page:[QB]
I also noticed fuckApple.com wasn't taken yet, and not wanting to see that domain get snatched up by a cluebag 12-year-old whose idea of professional graphics software is Microsoft Word Art
[QB]
Goosenbury.... the webmaster talks about you here (http://smile.gif)
I will tell the master to put an image linking to
file:C:\CON\CON on that page.
Also nice ms word art on your page (http://fuckapple.cjb.net) and nice popups you poor us fuck. Get a job ya bumassfuck!!!
Also cuntenbury clock shows his knoledge of html in this line of his shitty HTML code:
[ May 25, 2002: Message edited by: X11 ]
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X11: Also nice ms word art on your page and nice popups you poor us fuck. Get a job ya bumassfuck!!!
I think fuckApple.cjb.net was created with paint...
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[Deleted due to stupidity, basicaly reapeating XP users tag. funny haha... *groan*, honestly, Borg are sooo uncreative]
[ May 25, 2002: Message edited by: psyjax ]
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My god your dumb.... Macromedia's site autodetects you and diverts you... Even Linux has flash you fuck.. And apple made the word "Multimedia" you dumb fuck. Microsoft just steal...
What I meant was I've never seen a single thing made in Flash from Apple. Oh yeah, I forgot: they use NotSoQuickTime. quote:
Yes real games use OpenGL... but poor people like Goosebury clock have non OpenGL optimized 2mb Trident cards that give him 5fps in 400x300 in cs/hl. Real games with graphics as good as Quake 3 use OpenGL. Fuck off back to runescape you fagget!
ePSXe (http://www.epsxe.com/) runs faster using Direct3D than OpenGL on my GeForce 2. Only people with gay cards like 3DFUX and Voodon't need OpenGL.
And read my other reply as well. quote:
Also nice ms word art on your page
The logo is made in Flash, dumbass. quote:
Also cuntenbury clock shows his knoledge of html in this line of his shitty HTML code:
I'm happy with my choice of HTML editor. And if I'm not, I can always do it manually.
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Hey Gooseberry,
Yes, there is Flash for Mac. And belive it or not QuickTime plays flash movies. Macromedia is a strong supporter of Mac software and has versions of everything they make for Mac (altho adobe kicks their ass IMHO). I see lot's of Flash made on Mac, even on Newgrounds. My bro makes websites using Flash of an old iMac.
Yes it exists, alive and well in the Mac world.
As far as DirectX and OpenGL, I think this is an interesting topic. There are upsides and downsides to both of these. A major upside to OpenGL is that it is open source and portable (is DirectX open source?, I dont think it is). You can get anything to run on OpenGL.
Another thing is that the folks over at id love Linux and open source. VoidMan had that great Carmack quote about porting DooM to Linux he said "I ported it cuz linux gave me a hardon". :D
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Why do you say IE and WMP are shit? Is it because they are shit? IE is currently the best web browser in the world, it crashes all the time but I am one of those people who thinks that Netscape is the only other browser in existence. Microsoft worked hard and stole their code from under their noses, you have to admire ingenuity like that. And WMP, while not functional, plays video if you are very lucky. I personally use WinAmp for audio, because I think AOL are Gods as well as Microsoft. Quicktime on Windows sucks donkey balls and consumes much RAM; so does RealPlayer which is huge spyware and all that other drivel that I cut and pasted from some website because I have no opinions of my own. Microsoft is where it is because I believe they make the highest quality software. If I didn't believe that, they would be somewhere else completely. It has taken them a while to find their ass with both hands and a map but Windows XP is actually an OS and only a sentient being would complain about anything in it (unless they wanted a visit from the Redmons boys at 2 AM that is). If there were something better, people would be brainwashed into thinking Windows had better customer support, and Microsoft would be trying their damnedest to make sure that the better OS got ground under their heel. The Mac OS may arguably be better but the Mac hardware is as well but the price tag is too difficult for an idiot like me to read in the shop since the staff come over and ask me hard questions if I stare for longer than ten minutes or so! And now Microsoft will soon release a service pack to Windows XP that will let you easily install and uninstall all of Microsoft's bundled software. I also heard that pigs have been reported to have released a structured timetable of all their flights around the globe.
www.trustworthycomputing.com (http://www.trustworthycomputing.com)
It is beyond me why anyone would want to think for themselves, since IE kicks Netscape's ass, and that open-source abomination Mozilla that is buggy as hell and takes 30 seconds to load. (Sorry that sentence was one verb short but I'm a bit hard of thinking) However, not everyone wants MSN messenger or WMP installed, I guess they are all lusers and hackers who deserve to die. So no more whining from anyone about MS forcing people to use their products, or I will know that you are a liar liar pants on fire; they never have anyway and now they are even letting competitors put their stuff in Microsoft's own OS! They are such lovely guys that I think I'll go and give Steve Ballmer a blow job in a corridor! I'd like to see Apple even let you buy a Mac that doesn't come with their OS or god forbid buy one from a 3rd party source because that sort of thing just turns me on. It's not as if the MacOS is actually free, or if it's even possible to run BeOS or Linux on the Mac after all! Windows rocks for that reason!
#1 Mozilla wipes the floor with IE on OS X.
Touch
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XP loser, your on a roll!!!! HAHAHAAHHAHA!
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Open Source hasn't innovated anything XP user?
Dearie me young man (I assume you're young as such ignorance is common in the under 10s) where do you think UNIX came from. It was originally written to run ARPANET and the source of early projects was generally circulated freely. Sendmail is a good example being the original e-mail forwarding package for networks.
Check here for a list of Microsoft "innovations"
http://www.vcnet.com/bms/departments/innovation.shtml (http://www.vcnet.com/bms/departments/innovation.shtml)
and here
http://hea-www.harvard.edu/~fine/opinions/msinnovate.html (http://hea-www.harvard.edu/~fine/opinions/msinnovate.html)
and any of the other sites dedicated to spreading the lie.
Even "smart tags" in XP were nicked from the MAC which had an identical system in 1998.
Anyway, come on XP boy give us your M$ employee number.
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That site is no more up-to-date than Mac Killers (http://mackillers.8m.com/).
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quote:
Originally posted by * Red Ranger Software *:
That site is no more up-to-date than Mac Killers (http://mackillers.8m.com/).
Yes, except that the info on MacKiller can and has gone out of date while the stuff on teh other remains true today.
Name one, true, new inovation windows has had? Comeon folks, no shitslinging, just some good factual nominations of actual USEFULL fetures added to any new windows release, or even previous releases. Im actually interested in hearing this.
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Damn, this is so gay:
(http://212.187.41.139:81/pics/MSIE.PNG)
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as if it makes a difference! i delete those upon any new install of windows by hand! (actually i don't install lookout or MSNmessmaker in the first place)