Stop Microsoft
Operating Systems => macOS => Topic started by: slave on 31 January 2003, 21:28
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http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,851874,00.asp (http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,851874,00.asp)
article:
January 29, 2003
A Mac Angle on Linux
By Matthew Rothenberg
One of my favorite recent experiences as Mac tour guide was when I escorted my buddy (and Microsoft reporter extraordinaire) Mary Jo Foley to Jacob Javits Center for her first Macworld Expo and a bracing dose of Dr. Steve's keynote patent medicine.
A veteran observer of Windows gatherings, versed in the stylings of Messrs. Gates, Ballmer et al., Foley was pleasantly impressed by the vitality of my little corner of the desktop market. She earned some kudos from Mac users for her subsequent remarks that Mac technology and its adherents can still teach the Microsoft majority a thing or two despite the numerical gulf between them.
Mary Jo may not be ready to cash in her ThinkPad, but this industry veteran did come away from the event with a new appreciation for the finer points of the Mac as a computing platform and a cultural touchstone. (She's even made it back for a couple of subsequent Macworld installments.)
I had a similar cross-cultural experience at last week's LinuxWorld here in New York, where I spent a few pleasant hours walking the floor and talking to the enthusiastic attendees about Linux's desktop prospects, the role Mac hardware can play there and the chances of peaceful co-existence between Linux and Mac OS X.
It bore out a lot of what I've been hearing from fans of both platforms: These are communities that can work and play well together on the desktop.
My longstanding creed of desktop heterogeneity has always seen creative possibilities in the perennial competition between the main commercial desktop OSes -- Windows with 90-something percent of the market and the Mac with most of the rest.
The vibe seems decidedly different when it comes to the current Linux-Mac relationship: The OSes' shared Unix underpinnings and Apple's partial embrace of the open-source principles on which Linux is founded spells a more permeable, symbiotic relationship between the two environments. What's more, the availability of Linux distros for the PowerPC platform means that many Linux advocates have happily adopted Apple's hardware
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I like that article a lot. Here
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Beneficial to each other when Apple ports at least one fucking app that people want to use on linux!
QUICKTIME!!!
As far as i see it (as much as i like apple), they to me are merely using OSS as a rescource and bringing very little back, they are doing it to their advantage. WOW KDE get KHTML code back, big frills.
It would be far better if we get Quicktime for linux, it free already anyway, if they think its not worth the expense then let OS developers do the work anyway.
Its not hard, its just apple.
I'm still buying one of their ibooks though. (http://smile.gif)
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i agree 100% with you, butter, if apple gave a shit about anybody but themselves, they'd port quicktime to linux. as it is they lick windows' dick in this fashion but they won't even answer linux' 'phone calls.
The only reason apple give any code back is because they're legally obliged to. Apple is a manic schizophrenic company. their stuff is excellent, but i am not much less wary of them than of microsoft. they are a company after all, and they are more monopolistic than microsoft, it just doesn't show because they have the mouse's share of the market.
[ January 31, 2003: Message edited by: Calum: Member # 81 ]
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So you're telling me that if Apple released Quicktime for Linux then you would all be a lot happier and less wary of them! Jeese!! :mad:
What you constantly seem to be forgetting is that the core of OS X is FULLY and TRULY Open Source. What about that, huh? What about all those future improvements in KHTML and subsequently Konqueror, that Apple shares with the Open Source community. I guess that even that is not enough for you people!!
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is it? show me where i can get the source code for OSX, and then tell me why it has not been ported by individuals or an independent to other platforms (eg x86).
and i think you oversimplify. i for one would not be less wary of apple were they to release quicktime for linux (i am still well wary of realplayer, but i trust my firewall more in linux than i did in windows) however i think apple's refusal to bring out a linux quicktime, while they lick gates' balls on a regular basis by bringing it out for windows just symbolise their commitment to ripping off the open source community by keeping their enemies close.
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Well he was actually just saying that the core is "open source".
Do you use realplayer in linux? If so your firewall isn't protecting you from it spying on you (if that's what you meant)
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My stance:
Although Apple could be more of an open company when it comes to certain things, (quicktime, aqua, etc.) I also don't think they do any harm to the open source community either. It's not like they are out to *kill* open source.
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that's very true.
quote:
Originally posted by flap:
Well he was actually just saying that the core is "open source".
Do you use realplayer in linux? If so your firewall isn't protecting you from it spying on you (if that's what you meant)
why not?????
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Well what firewall are you using? iptables/chains? How is it stopping realplayer from talking to the internet?
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as i understand it i am currently using ipchains, set at a mandrake default of 'high' and allowing nothing to act as a server.
my firewalling knowledge ends right there which is why i wanted to know how realplayer could spy on me.
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oh right. well ipchains is a packet filtering firewall, which means it allows/denies packets to go in and out of your machine based on things like their dest/source IP addresses, dest/source ports, which network interface they're going out of/coming into etc. They're not concerned with which application they're bound for/coming from. With iptables there is some way to do application specific filtering but it's a bit of a hack really. If you want to stop a particular app from accessing the network it should be achieved on the user permission level rather than the packet/firewall level, despite what windows "personal firewalls" like zonealarm would have you believe.
So in summary, your firewall will usually be primarily concerned with stopping incoming connections to your machine rather than outgoing ones. I'd recommend you write your own iptables/chains script so you know what it's doing. A basic one would literally only be a few lines. Typically this would just block all incoming connections to your machine (unless you want to run servers on your machine, of course)
So if RealPlayer wants to spy on you, I'm sure your firewall hasn't been stopping it.
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goto LinuxIso.org and look for "GNU/Darwin" there is your Apple core (no pun intended)
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The core of OSX is open source, okay, useless to me because i don't have a machine running on a PPC platform. Advantage = Apple, if people from OS community work on it saving apple some time. Even if i did want to code for them, i need a mac machine anyway.
Quicktime on linux would piss off microcunt but apple doesn't want that to happen oh no, that means linux gains in popularity and people might not switch to apple because linux gains recognition from the public if major apps from apple are ported across . Alot of things may be open sourced but apple gain from it the most(which is what apple really wants).
The reason why i mentioned quicktime was because its one of those little apps people want on linux, if apple and Linux WERE "beneficial" to each other then linux would gain more than just KHTML,core or kernel code. They would get at least one little fucking application in FULL just like apple is going to get when they fully implement X11 on OSX.
Basically in a few years time we could be looking at the mac platform and it will be running every single damn app designed for linux, created by the open source community. But in return linux gets code back (only because the license says they have to) and not one FULL application back in return. They are not going out of their way to help linux are they?
What i think they are trying to do is getting everything to run on their platform and show linux users or possible windows switchers that Apple has everything from the 3 OS'es. While Linux as usual will have to work for themselves without anybodies real help.
Codeweavers could go apple along with WINex for example. Who would care if MS don't port Office for the mac anymore, apple would just use the MS windows version using x11 with codeweavers. It also negates the need of having Virtual PC (VPC) which costs alot more needs an installation of windows to work. Advantage = Apple, no more MS code on their platform and performance is given a boost because there is no VPC needed anymore.
People say Linux lacks simplicity but apple have loads of that in their OS, what would happen if apple has all the apps linux has with the simple design and feel of OSX? It has all the advantages of linux/UNIX but doesn't suffer from bad UI design or anything that is to technical for newbies to linux. Plus all this with the brand awareness apple has.
Who would need linux? It makes apple so much more powerful, i'm not saying that this could happen but its not as though it cannot either. I would buy apple if this came true but i'm buying anyway, it would have everything.
The point i'm trying to make is that Apple and Linux ISN'T beneficial to each other. It only would be if linux got back something of equal value like at least 1 native fucking Mac app like Quicktime. Its the smallest thing to ask for but that isn't even done for linux.
So the title of this topic is untrue.
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yes, again i agree 100% with you, butter.
quote:
Quicktime on linux would piss off microcunt but apple doesn't want that to happen oh no, that means linux gains in popularity and people might not switch to apple because linux gains recognition from the public if major apps from apple are ported across . Alot of things may be open sourced but apple gain from it the most(which is what apple really wants).
sound like any other big company you might have heard of? why is it by the way that apple do not see their pandering to microsoft as harming their own business, but releasing software for the fastest growing operating system is harmful to them? it amounts to the same thing from a money perspective, unless they are smart enough to make the openness work for them (if they are not smart enough, and it is beginning to look that way, then they will hopefully go down the crapper with microsoft).
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The reason why i mentioned quicktime was because its one of those little apps people want on linux, if apple and Linux WERE "beneficial" to each other then linux would gain more than just KHTML,core or kernel code. They would get at least one little fucking application in FULL just like apple is going to get when they fully implement X11 on OSX.
absofuckinglutely!
yup, looks like apple is walking in the footsteps of its hero, microsoft. mac users might not like it, but it's there for everybody to see.
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If Apple were smart, they would use Linux as a tool to crush Microsoft on the x86 platform. But perhaps they don't want to do that. Maybe they like Microsoft because Microsoft has always given them their "niche" in the market.
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If Apple were smart, they would use Linux as a tool to crush Microsoft on the x86 platform. But perhaps they don't want to do that. Maybe they like Microsoft because Microsoft has always given them their "niche" in the market.
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quote:
Originally posted by Linux User #5225982375:
If Apple were smart, they would use Linux as a tool to crush Microsoft on the x86 platform. But perhaps they don't want to do that. Maybe they like Microsoft because Microsoft has always given them their "niche" in the market.
Apple are smart thats why they are doing this, they know Linux at its pace will have tons of windows software running natively on a UNIX platform very soon, apple probably wants some of this, its something Apple cannot do other than by using VPC.
Mind you a benefit of this would be nobody would need to port software to the apple platform! If everything that runs on windows runs on linux and then runs on Apple whats the point in making different ports?
I don't think Apple are thankful that they have been given their "niche", i think they hate the fact that MS gave them finacial support in 97 because they were nearly bankrupt. Its Apples own fault they have this niche anyway, had they lowered prices when they were infront (when their OS was superior at a time when windows 1.1 was around) they could of had a larger market share early on. But they priced themselves out of a market and thus lost out through no fault of their own.
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The core of OS X is Darwin and yes it is Open Source and freely downloadable if that makes any difference. It's also being slowly ported to the x86 platform.
About Quicktime, be patient. You might see it being ported to Linux some time in the near future. I believe that Apple is slowly trying to cut the strings with M$, which is not by any means an easy job.
[ January 31, 2003: Message edited by: Panos ]
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Stop bickering, guys. I have the perfect solution to your arguments: Just click here (http://www.angelfire.com/mac/macrevolution/buckup.html)
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Originally posted by cahult:
I like that article a lot. Here
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Its funny how the mac and linux relationship benefits mac users more than linux users. Suddenly mac users can use XFree86 and other *nix applications, but linux users still cant use mac applications. As soon as linux begins to benefit from this by being able to run mac applications, things will be better.
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yeah, and it's funny how apple and linux are 'beneficial' to each other so long as apple gets the lion's share of the benefits, isn't that right?
i wonder if we'd have quite so many mac advocates telling us to sit down and shut up if linux was the one benefiting most? of course we wouldn't. they'd all be up in arms about how linux wasn't really open, and apple would be sending their lawyers out on seek and destroy missions.
quote:
Originally posted by Panos:
About Quicktime, be patient. You might see it being ported to Linux some time in the near future. I believe that Apple is slowly trying to cut the strings with M$, which is not by any means an easy job.
<scoff> easy for you to say. i am sick of waiting for literally years for some vapourware that's coming out 'real soon now', thank you very much.
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The reason I told you to be patient is not because I work for Apple or have any inside information about Quicktime, but rather because I believe that Apple will embrace Open Source more in the future for the benefit of both "parties".
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quote:
Originally posted by Panos:
I believe that Apple is slowly trying to cut the strings with M$, which is not by any means an easy job.
Slowly trying to cut strings? Serious understatement. Releasing a web browser, and a counterpart to PowerPoint isn't exactly gradual action.
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quote:
Originally posted by The Muffin Man:
Slowly trying to cut strings? Serious understatement. Releasing a web browser, and a counterpart to PowerPoint isn't exactly gradual action.
Well, it was gradual until the release of Keynote and Safari or maybe wasn't it? :confused:
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OK for a start Mac OS X is not opensource. Darwin is, and there is a x86 version (Darwin homepage (http://developer.apple.com/darwin/projects/darwin/)) you can download it in binary or source form. This is also available over a cvs server.
What is not open source is basically nothing to do with the opensource community. It was all created internally at Apple.
So quite your whinging.
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Not whining, merely pointing out that anything that is "beneficial" is to Apple only and not Linux.
So read the comments properly butt munch. (http://smile.gif)
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Oh yes, you are whining. (http://smile.gif) Now, if you want QuickTime in Linux so much (I know I never needed it), then all you have to do is write to Steve Jobs at [email protected] ([email protected]) and explain your problems. Just joking. (http://smile.gif)
[ February 03, 2003: Message edited by: Panos ]
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that's not a joke! are you saying people who require a piece of software should just shut up and go away, accepting anything that they are spoonfed? maybe you should go and buy a nice new copy of windows XP.
Butter has said nothing but the gods' unvarnished 100% truth, so get over it, apploids! ;)
as for quicktime it's not a matter of needing it (even i have got mplayer + win32dlls to play quicktime files), it's the principle of the situation. it's dissapointing that the posters on this forum of all places cannot see the difference between personal greed and a matter of principle.
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quote:
Originally posted by Calum: Member # 81:
that's not a joke! are you saying people who require a piece of software should just shut up and go away, accepting anything that they are spoonfed? maybe you should go and buy a nice new copy of windows XP.
Butter has said nothing but the gods' unvarnished 100% truth, so get over it, apploids! ;)
as for quicktime it's not a matter of needing it (even i have got mplayer + win32dlls to play quicktime files), it's the principle of the situation. it's dissapointing that the posters on this forum of all places cannot see the difference between personal greed and a matter of principle.
If I knew that you would take my post so seriously, I wouldn't write it in the first place. As I have replied in a previous post, it is my belief that soon QuickTime will be available for Linux and that's all it is. Just a simple opinion. I don't know if my English is so bad that you cannot understand what I'm trying to say and I'm sorry if my opinion can't get through to you or anyone else here.
I also do not understand how this became all of a sudden a matter of principle to you and to other Linux users in these forums. I'm not here to speak on behalf of Apple. I'm just a very satisfied user of OS X and a long-time user of Linux who has never had similar problems and worries. Jeese, I'm just writing my opinions here and don't have to apologize on behalf of Apple. I really don't know how you got that idea!
PS I don't like being called an apploid, linuxoid or windoid (even worse). That would mean that I'm a shortsighted person, which I definitely am not.
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quote:
Originally posted by Panos:
I'm not here to speak on behalf of Apple.
Well tough shit i've decided that you are. ;)
Hey i even wouldn't mind if Apple ported the pro version and had to pay, as long as they do it.
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i didn't mean to offend you panos, it;s just that i am a bit sick of applemac users turning one way or the other just when it suits them. you never know if they will be extolling the virtues of unix or ruthlessly bashing 'PC' users.
i don't trust apple and i don't trust those who stick up for them blindly, and i am sorry if i portrayed you as somebody who is blindly following apple. and there's nothing wrong with your english either.
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quote:
Originally posted by Crunchy(Cracked)Butter:
Well tough shit i've decided that you are. ;)
Hey i even wouldn't mind if Apple ported the pro version and had to pay, as long as they do it.
Hehe. (http://smile.gif) Believe me I agree with you guys. I too would like to see more software being ported to Linux, including QuickTime and many more apps that worth it.
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EDIT: What the hell am I talking about??
[ February 03, 2003: Message edited by: Macman: LITERALLY a genius / bob ]
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quote:
i didn't mean to offend you panos, it;s just that i am a bit sick of applemac users turning one way or the other just when it suits them. you never know if they will be extolling the virtues of unix or ruthlessly bashing 'PC' users.
I know and I assure you that I'm not one of those people. (http://smile.gif)
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i don't trust apple and i don't trust those who stick up for them blindly
Neither do I, believe me. It's almost impossible for me also to trust blindly any big corporation (including Apple) for various reasons let alone stick up for them blindly.
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Or how about an anti-Windows ad campaign?
That would be nice, but you must have heard the following saying: "Don't bite the hand that feeds you". :D
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First off, as someone pointed out Apple is severing the ties with M$. They are not M$'s bitch, infact quite the contrary, now that Apple has the OSS community on it's side it's basically telling M$ to go shove it. They don't need them.
Safari is going to be the default browser, bye bye IE, KeyNotes will replace PowerPoint, and OpenOffice is rapidly aproaching Final status.
It is becoming clear that Apple sided with OSS not to somehow "steal" from it, but rather to sever the ties to the evil empire. That's a major reason.
And as far as giving back...
Well, first off you are not restricted to PPC for Darwin. There is an X86 version. Also, you can get it to run on custom made PPC boxes like the ones being offered over at www.yellowdoglinux.com. (http://www.yellowdoglinux.com.)
Third of all, why are you bitching at Apple to give back to the open source community, it has, there are dozzens of Open Source PPC and Mac developers now. Tons of little projects on sourceForge etc. Just because they are PPC only dosn't make them not OSS or GNU! What about AmigaOS, do you complain about them not giving back to the x86 platform?
What the hell did Mandrake ever "give back", or "Debian", etc. Yet you don't complain, it's the little OSS programmers that make the goods, not the company compiling the distro.
Should us Mac users complain that WINE hasn't been given to us in the PPC market? Should we complain that Gnome hasn't ported it's Desktop environment to Aqua? Or that Xmms dosn't even work on PPC's!
I wan't the RedHat package manager on my Mac, shit, I guess Linux hasn't given me smak, grrr... grumble... grumble ... RPMs rock! grrumble
If that's not a convincing argument, then why not complain about Sun developing it's OS only for the SunSparc processors. Or the dozens of "wierd" chips out there that linux/*NIX has been ported to. You don't bitch about those companies having to give back.
And fuck! If you don't think Apple has "given back", show me the fucking applications and code you have contributed to the OSS community lately? I bet you Apple has given back a damn site more than you leaches....
ooooo... struck a nerve....
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quote:
Originally posted by psyjax: plain 'ol psyjax:
Third of all, why are you bitching at Apple to give back to the open source community, it has, there are dozzens of Open Source PPC and Mac developers now. Tons of little projects on sourceForge etc. Just because they are PPC only dosn't make them not OSS or GNU! What about AmigaOS, do you complain about them not giving back to the x86 platform?
Im complaining because I dont see how linux is benefiting from Mac OS joining the open source community. Yes mac developers are creating open source projects, but they are only for Mac Os, not for linux or any other OS. A lot of open source projects for linux also have windows and mac ports.
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What the hell did Mandrake ever "give back", or "Debian", etc. Yet you don't complain, it's the little OSS programmers that make the goods, not the company compiling the distro.
What did Mandrake give? It gave us a powerful set of software preconfigured to run together and be secure and easy to use, all of this for free. As for innovation, the people at MandrakeSoft created a lot of the configuration utilities, the installer, they added a lot of custom drivers to the kernel to support a lot more hardware than the stock linux kernel, and all for free. The same for Debian, including the fact that they created the great apt-get package management system. All for free. They give thousands of man hours and dollars of work away for free. You ask what they give back, the answer is more than Apple ever will.
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Should us Mac users complain that WINE hasn't been given to us in the PPC market? Should we complain that Gnome hasn't ported it's Desktop environment to Aqua? Or that Xmms dosn't even work on PPC's!
Actually you can probably use gnome on mac os X. Look here http://www.apple.com/macosx/x11/ (http://www.apple.com/macosx/x11/)
Also Im pretty sure you can get xmms working on your ppc too using fink. Check out http://sourceforge.net/projects/fink/ (http://sourceforge.net/projects/fink/)
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I wan't the RedHat package manager on my Mac, shit, I guess Linux hasn't given me smak, grrr... grumble... grumble ... RPMs rock! grrumble
You want rpm's on your ppc? Guess what, Yellow Dog Linux is based on Red Hat, so its not as hard as you think.
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And fuck! If you don't think Apple has "given back", show me the fucking applications and code you have contributed to the OSS community lately? I bet you Apple has given back a damn site more than you leaches....
ooooo... struck a nerve....
Actually I did help in the development of the open source project BZFlag, I havent seen anything from Apple other than Darwin itself, which is nothing special at all since we have linux, the BSD's, and more.
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@Psyjax
Somebody assumes that some of use are leeches and don't give anything to the OSC.
I can code in java (only java) however i'm not fluent enough so instead of contributing code which would be useless, i give money instead, not only do i make donations but i also purchase the distros i use.
Also the argument about Apple porting WINE to their platform. They can if they want because its free, this is what i was saying before. Apple can access nearly everything that is linux and add it to OSX while linux gets the extra code a modifications back. But linux has to wait until APPLE decides to port something like quicktime.
YOU read my fucking post or what sunshine! (http://smile.gif)
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psyjax, you make some good solid points, but i do tend to agree with preacher and butter as well.
i'll be happy if apple go the way you say they are (and you know more about it than me i know) but i am always wary of a company. i am wary of mandrake continually saying their backs are against the wall and asking for spare change (like bill gates did in the late seventies) while they still are pumping out cutting edge linux distros, i am wary of red hat and its RHCE (read: MCSE++) stuff, not to mention that they are the open source microsoft of the world (by choice or not) and i am wary of lindows, the company that would have been microsoft if it had been born 20 years earlier.
Still, all those companies might be saints and angels, i'm just a paranoid cynical bastard.
"sure, i'm paranoid... but am i paranoid enough?" - Unknown.
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quote:
Third of all, why are you bitching at Apple to give back to the open source community, it has, there are dozzens of Open Source PPC and Mac developers now. Tons of little projects on sourceForge etc. Just because they are PPC only dosn't make them not OSS or GNU!
What do they have to do with apple?
All Apple have done to 'contribute' to the community is to take free software, adapt it to form their OS core and then licence the finished result under their "Open Source" but restrictive and non-free APSL.
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What the hell did Mandrake ever "give back", or "Debian", etc.
I'm thinking the Debian and Mandrake GNU/Linux distributions, for a start.
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Should us Mac users complain that WINE hasn't been given to us in the PPC market? Should we complain that Gnome hasn't ported it's Desktop environment to Aqua? Or that Xmms dosn't even work on PPC's!
No-one is expecting Apple to do their work for them. If you have the specifications for a file format or source code for an application you can easily develop free software to use that file format or port the software to another platform. No-one is *deliberately preventing* Mac users or Apple themsevles from porting any of those programs you list. You can't say the same about Apple's proprietary software.
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then why not complain about Sun developing it's OS only for the SunSparc processors
Well, actually, there's an x86 version but...
But yes, I would say "Fuck Sun" just as I say "Fuck MS" and "Fuck Apple"; they're all fundamentally as bad as each other as far as their software development ethics go.
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well said
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No-one is *deliberately preventing* Mac users or Apple themsevles from porting any of those programs you list. You can't say the same about Apple's proprietary software.
here's the pivotal point about which i disagree with most applemac users. i agree with this statement and anybody who doesn't is obviously wrong.
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Well, just because Apple makes proprietary software dosn't make them evil. IBM makes proprietary software it runs on their Linux servers, Maya for RedHat is proprietary. Those companys aren't necissarly Satan.
I think what I was really getting at is that OSS comes from the developers. Dick and Jane programmer who contribute, not the company. And I think you guys are being a bit unfair to say that because most of the OSS being contributed runs only on PPC that somehow it's inherently bad. Sounds like sour grapes to me. Shit I can name dozens of x86 stuff I wish the Mac had.
Furthermore it IS OSS. So you can try to port it if you wan't.
As far as Apple benifiting from Linux, anyone can build a PPC box, or an x86 box and run darwin and benifit from all the OSS. But people don't, because "darwin is to limeted", well, that's the point isn't it! Get the code and make it grow.
You don't like Apple's software policy? Reverse engeneer the .mov format and make your own QT player.
Also, Safari is full OSS, and is advancing KHTML, maybe there will be more projects like this.
Finaly, maybe it dosn't benifit Linux directly, but I think Apple and OSX have made people more aware of OSS and the GNU. I know I didn't know much about it till I got into OSX.
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quote:
Well, just because Apple makes proprietary software dosn't make them evil.
I disagree.
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And I think you guys are being a bit unfair to say that because most of the OSS being contributed runs only on PPC that somehow it's inherently bad.
Who's saying that? What we're saying is that Apple have taken Free Software and got the benefit from that but not given their proprietary software back.
And Apple has not made anyone more aware of GNU, they've just made people more aware of "Open Source", which further degrades general awareness of GNU. Apple would never have licenced Darwin under the GPL.
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again, good points, while i still agree with butter and preacher.
i do think apple are not being deliberately malicious, just keeping their own interests at the front of their minds, that's all. plus, you are well right about people finding out about non-M$ alternatives now that MacOS is *ix based.
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Ok Im lazy, and I got class in a few minutes, but in order to enlighten this discussion I thought it may be benificial to weirgh the APSL licence agains the GPL
http://www.opensource.apple.com/apsl/ (http://www.opensource.apple.com/apsl/)
Any takers?
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http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/apsl.html (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/apsl.html)
To quote from that:
quote:
Apple has grasped perfectly the concept with which "open source" is promoted, which is "show users the source and they will help you fix bugs". What Apple has not grasped--or has dismissed--is the spirit of free software, which is that we form a community to cooperate on the commons of software.
[ February 04, 2003: Message edited by: flap ]