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Miscellaneous => The Lounge => Topic started by: Pissed_Macman on 11 December 2002, 10:39
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Star Trek Nemesis opens this weekend in the US (not sure about elsewhere) and in Star Trek: the Magazine, Patrick Stewart has urged everyone to go see the movie its opening weekend to show the world how much people love Star Trek. This is our big chance to end the stupid stereotypes about Star Trek and about the people who enjoy it. Spread the message, everyone!
(Paramount really ought to pay me for this)
[ December 11, 2002: Message edited by: Macman: Mac Trekker / BoB ]
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I will be at ArcLight in Hollywood for the public opening of this movie, Friday. I had a chance to go down there for the premier, but I had to go to night class. I heard it was quite wild down there....everyone was all dressed up like Klingons, Romulans, Borg...good times!
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OK... I'm gonna see it on Friday, but not because someone told me to - Nemesis is going to be the LAST 24th century material produced. Period. Rick Berman ruined the franchise. I'd like to see Berman fired and someone else brought in who KNOWS how to direct the storyline for a franchise as big as this... c'mon, who the hell approved Admiral Janeway? she's a friggin WAR CRIMINAL!!! Don't get me wrong, Trek's mostly all good stuff, hell, my username is taken from a Voyager episode, but I honestly believe this movie is going to suck and there wont be any more... and im sorry to see it go.
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Okay, Voyager had its flaws, but think about this: the second or third season of TNG is when Berman took over after Roddenberry's death. That's when TNG started to actually get good. He changed Star Trek completely from the original series and first few seasons of TNG. Maybe some people like the old Star Trek style better (terrible acting, lousy graphics), but I grew up with the new ST and that's personally what I love. If Roddenberry had lived another ten years Star Trek would be completely different and I may not even be a fan right now.
I've heard that most people who've seen the movie so far really liked it and I've heard it compared with First Contact. Even though Insurrection was a total piece of shit I think this could be a really good movie. I could be wrong of course...
You say Janeway's a war criminal? How do you figure?
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quote:
Even though Insurrection was a total piece of shit I think this could be a really good movie.
It is going to be pretty hard to make a more horrible movie than Insurrection. That movie sucked the shit out of a dead man's rotting asshole.
Voyager did have its moments. You can't tell me that those two episodes when Species 8472 came into the scope that those weren't two of the best Star Trek episodes ever made. In fact, those two episodes were the reason I started watching Voyager. Sure, there were some deep voids between episodes, but some were entertaining.
Take a look at DS9. With the exception of like three episodes during the first four seasons, that show was a cure for insomnia. The acting was dull, the plots were boring...it sucked. Once season five came around and the war between the Federation and the Dominion started shaping up, that is when it got real good.
I don't know how far you can really take the TNG storyline. Roddenberry had plenty of time between Star Trek I and Khan...where was the consistency to that? II, III, and IV ran together, but what about V, and VI (V sucked as well.....if you think Berman is a fuck up, just pray that they don't let Shatner direct another movie LOL.)
To be quite honest, I hope this is the last TNG film. There really isn't much else you can do with the storyline. The Borg are finished, TNG and 8472 don't mix..what else would they possibly come up with? If this film is half as good as First Contact, they should just quit while they are ahead.
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quote:
Originally posted by LorKorub / BOB:
I heard it was quite wild down there....everyone was all dressed up like Klingons, Romulans, Borg...good times!
That'll help end those bastard sterotypes.
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janeway violated the temporal prime directive. Archer is gonna show up from the past and shoot her with a pistol.
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Ok... for the sake of argument, lets catalog Janeway's offenses:
1: Handing out Federation tech to the Hirogen (holodeck technology) - Prime directive? what prime directive?
2: Assisting the Borg in defeating an enemy (8472) that was capable of destroying the Borg - and Starfleet's general orders mean what again?
3: Not infecting Seven of Nine with the unresolvable shape virus and sending her back to the Collective: Starfleet general orders again.. although Picard had an opportunity to do this (Hugh) and didnt, its still No Fuckin Excuse!
4: Temporal prime directive violation, Earth 1996: (Future's End) Failure to remove all 29th century technology from Henry Starling's possession and removing Chronowerx from power. Keep in mind Chronowerx was never supposed to have existed, and did only because 29th century technology was stolen by a 20th century thief... whose character was based on Billy himself and his company on Microsoft... need i say more?
5: Temporal prime directive violation, Stardate 54985 (Endgame)... According to Starfleet regulations, Janeway should simply have locked her future self in the brig, destroyed her shuttle, and went on along her merry way. The fact that NOT doing so enabled her to destroy a Borg transwarp network hub was probably the ONLY reason she wasnt cashiered out of Starfleet upon return...
edit 6: Losing her ship TWICE... to the Kazon (Basics) and later to the Hirogen (The Killing Game). Prime Directive, equipment disposition, simple incompetence... not to mention the change to the balance of power in the Delta Quadrant... christ, Janeway cant keep ONE ship under her command, who knows just how spectacularly she'll fuck up the whole fleet????
The collective penalty for all these offenses: promotion to admiral?????? Doesnt make a whole hell of a lot of sense, does it?
[ December 11, 2002: Message edited by: The Rev. Annorax ]
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Janeway made some critical errors and broke Federation directives many times, but as they pointed out many times in the series, they had to change the rules to survive in the Delta Quadrant. I don't know if that's a very good excuse.
Janeway also violated the temporal prime directive by holding on to the Doc's mobile emitter. And the ship was taken another time (third season I think) by those harmless-looking aliens that acted like they didn't know why they were replacing the crew.
Let's get this straight: Janeway goes to the Delta Quadrant and breaks rules for seven years and gets a promotion to admiral when she gets back. Meanwhile, Picard is a war hero before he's even captain, gets command of the Star Gazer for a while, then is transferred to the flagship of the Federation, continually saves the Federation's ass for fifteen years, yet he is still a Captain! And I recall Riker getting promotion offers the second season of TNG. Why is he still a commander fifteen years later??!!
Instead of the unsolvable shape puzzle,
this is what they should have sent to the Borg. (http://www.angelfire.com/mac/macrevolution/artevange/tngscript.html)
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Picard and Riker stayed in their positions for so long because they wanted to - refusing promotions and the like... but I cant see one thing... these are all capable, honorable officers... why the hell werent they all promoted during the Dominion War when captains WERE needed? One would think Riker and Data would have made captain easily... and promotions during war i believe CANT be turned down...
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In Sweden Star Trek is mostly ignored by the "high and mighty". There are of course lots of fans here but to date only one movie has had a premiere here, "Star Trek - the motion picture".
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quote:
Originally posted by The Rev. Annorax:
OK... I'm gonna see it on Friday, but not because someone told me to - Nemesis is going to be the LAST 24th century material produced. Period. Rick Berman ruined the franchise. I'd like to see Berman fired and someone else brought in who KNOWS how to direct the storyline for a franchise as big as this... c'mon, who the hell approved Admiral Janeway? she's a friggin WAR CRIMINAL!!! Don't get me wrong, Trek's mostly all good stuff, hell, my username is taken from a Voyager episode, but I honestly believe this movie is going to suck and there wont be any more... and im sorry to see it go.
Voyager was one of the better Star Treks IMHO. Too bad it's gone...
Nobody mentioned the small detail that Janeway did wipe out the Borg you know...
[ December 11, 2002: Message edited by: The Muffin Man ]
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I DID mention it, dipsmack.
quote:
Originally posted by The Rev. Annorax:
5: Temporal prime directive violation, Stardate 54985 (Endgame)... According to Starfleet regulations, Janeway should simply have locked her future self in the brig, destroyed her shuttle, and went on along her merry way. The fact that NOT doing so enabled her to destroy a Borg transwarp network hub was probably the ONLY reason she wasnt cashiered out of Starfleet upon return...
[/QB]
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quote:
Originally posted by The Rev. Annorax:
I DID mention it, dipsmack.
Well excuse me for not reading every bit of your poorly spaced description.
LOL...Just Kidding ;)
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sorry, guys. Voyager was cheese, and Enterprise is warmed-over cheese.
Deep Space Nine was badass because they had the best actors of any of the new series, they had the best scripts, the best everything. Oh... and they had a coherent story. DS9 blew everything else away. TOS is a close second, and TNG is right after that.
Enterprise and Voyager both had similar things going for them... great actors, great FX, great story concepts. But the writing in each is SO DAMNED BAD that it hurts. Ent has had a few really badass shows, like "The Andorian Incident". It was just TOS with different actors. They need more of that, and less of the soap opera and time travel bullshit. Just stick to "action packed fistfights and shootouts" guys. Archer is too dorky to be the heroic type. Let Reed bomb stuff, Trip hotwire it, and Mayweather fly it. They just need to turn Enterprise into TOS. Have more humorous banter, and less of the deep shit.
Get Rick Berman and Brannon Braga out of there and they'll have something going for 'em.
I've always thought that George Lucas should buy Trek. It might change, but I think it'd rule!
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I see your point, but to a lot of people action isn't just what star trek is about. Back before it had good graphics it was the story concepts that made it good. In my opinion they kept the good stories and added the graphics, which is why I like it. Star Trek is like a really buff guy (the graphics) who is also a genius (the thoughtful story lines).
Voyager is my least-favorite of all of them. The only seasons that are worth watching are the fourth and fifth. After that they ran out of ideas and made all the episodes about the Doc and 7of9.
TOS shouldn't be compared with the rest. Quite enjoyable if you have the right mindset.
DS9: an excellent series, but only if you've seen every episode. Its story-arc made it very good, but not a very good stand-alone series.
And finally Enterprise. I've been impressed with it so far. No Trek was that good its first season. However, it doesn't really evoke the same feeling as the other new series. I don't find that I really care about the characters as much. Maybe it will grow on me.
But TNG is by far my favorite. I watched the first episode when i was a toddler (ok, I sort of gave away my age there...) and watched the thing all the way to the end. Back then in the early 90's the graphics were believable, but they couldn't be depended on, which is why the stories were so good as well. Definitely a well-balanced series. That's probably why I'm so excited about Nemesis.
Well, enough of my ranting.
[ December 12, 2002: Message edited by: Macman: Mac Trekker / BoB ]
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re lucas in trek, it would suck if that hoary old self important money spender got his hands on it.
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george lucas is one of THE WORST directors/writers in the history of film. the only good thing he has done (since star wars episodes 4-6) is ILM.. these new star wars movies are more than crap. look at the fucking tired ass love scene in episode 2, i mean, he used every single "love scene" cliche in the book. the dialog was broing and rusty, the acting sucked more ass than that ass sucker george lucas. the only thing those movies had was special effects, and that doesnt take me very far (even though i am currently studying animation and effects). his directing & writing style consists of old, beat up, used dialog and scenes that were cheesy when the original driector used them. fuck george lucas, unless of course, i can get a job at Industrial Light & Magic... :D (just joking)
as for star trek, i used to be a huge fan, but the newer series suck. ill go watch the movie tomorrow, and i will probably like it, i just hope that it is the last. i do not want to see a movie about ds9 or voyager. that would be pure crap.. these new shows lack an innocence that the old series had, even tng had it.
anyways. i hate george lucas. cheese....
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Lucas already did the Star Trek like thing ... Battlestar Galactica... which lets be honest here left Star Trek looking stale - not that I can think of one episode that offered me anything original in either series. And I really beg to differ here but nothing could make Star Trek suck more than it does now. Except bringing Shatner back again.
TOS was okay except for Shatner. But it was backwards by the literary standards already achieved in SF at that time. The more stuff you read and the further back you go the more you realise that Trek lacks all those attributes you accredited it with, like originality, and good ideas and forsight and high dreams - take it from an Ex. fan Star Trek should have died with Roddenbury, it's become Disneyfied calptrap without a pair of balls to call it's own.
After giving up on Shatners' atrocious acting in the early films I decided to give First Contact a shot and that was that. If that is Star Treks idea of good then I really don't think I can take bad. No I can't see any reason to go and see Nemesis, it will be raved about by fans and they will all go home and amongst themselves they will slag it off, the way every Trek fan I know has done after every film they have made.
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One original thing?? How about Far Beyond The Stars (DS9)? When was the last time a sci-fi show actually addressed racism and equality in a relevant manner? I dont see anyone using Battlestar Galactica in anything resembling a commentary on reality, either current or past... but I gave copies of Far Beyond the Stars to my US History professor, told him to just watch it and don't read anything into it because it's Star Trek... and now he uses it in class...
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Lucas did not do Battlestar Galactica! Don't insult him! That was Glan A. Larson, a real dumbass who tried to capitalize off of Star Wars' success. Throughout most of BSG's run, Larson and Lucas spent a lot of time in court.
EDIT: quote:
george lucas is one of THE WORST directors/writers in the history of film. the only good thing he has done (since star wars episodes 4-6) is ILM.
And don't forget that George started Pixar too, which he sold to Steve Jobs, and that's why they have those cool new bouncing iMac commercials.
[ December 13, 2002: Message edited by: Macman: Mac Trekker / BoB ]
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quote:
Originally posted by Macman: Mac Trekker / BoB:
Lucas did not do Battlestar Galactica! Don't insult him!
Lucas is a poopy head! Lucas is a poopy head! :D
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Star Trek Nemesis has now been open for 3 hours and 12 minutes. Whats taking you guys so long?!
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quote:
How about Far Beyond The Stars (DS9)? When was the last time a sci-fi show actually addressed racism and equality in a relevant manner
Actually, Star Trek TOS was the first sci-fi show -- actually primetime television show, regardless of genre -- that addressed the racism issue in the United States. That episode with the half-black half-white guys made a subtle referrence to the racial situation of the 1960s. We actually studied that episode in Sociology at UNLV, and had to write a report on it.
Star Trek TOS was also the first primetime television show to feature a racially integrated cast. Nichelle Nichols was the first black woman to ever star in a primetime show, and Nimoy and Shatner were the first two Jewish Americans to ever be given a leading star role. It was also the first to feature a Japanese American (George Takei) in a staring role on a primetime television series. It was because of these reasons that many names were attracted to the series, and felt the urge to keep it alive. Guys like Levar Burton (Roots), and Avery Brooks (American History X) are two of the more spoken actors on this subject...especially around these parts (Hollywood.) Personally, I think what Brooks did on some of the better episodes of DS9 was remarkable (once the producers and directors let him improvise.)
And about the "that'll end the stereotypes about Star Trek fans" comment. Dude...this is just Hollywood! People do that kind of shit here regardless of what movie is playing. I've seen about 150 Spidermen when that movie was released, and when Star Wars came out, walking into Goldfingers bar after the show was literally just like walking into that bar at Mos Eisley Spaceport. I think that stuff is what adds to the fun of these movies, and says something about just how powerful they are. You didn't go to those places and hear a bunch of women talking with southern accents after Steel Magnolias...and that is because movies like that are all a dime a dozen, and they all suck.
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Who's seen the movie? What did you think about it?
I just saw it last night and really thought it was good. The beginning was a little slow, but it definitely picked up. It had a lot of the same feel as First Contact. The ending was great. I won't give it away though.
I haven't heard the numbers yet, but I was a little disappointed to see that there weren't too many people in the theater. Who knows, though, maybe everyone went to the early show.
quote:
Originally posted by LorKorub / BOB:
And about the "that'll end the stereotypes about Star Trek fans" comment. Dude...this is just Hollywood! People do that kind of shit here regardless of what movie is playing. I've seen about 150 Spidermen when that movie was released, and when Star Wars came out, walking into Goldfingers bar after the show was literally just like walking into that bar at Mos Eisley Spaceport. I think that stuff is what adds to the fun of these movies, and says something about just how powerful they are. You didn't go to those places and hear a bunch of women talking with southern accents after Steel Magnolias...and that is because movies like that are all a dime a dozen, and they all suck.
I'm just tired of mentioning to someone that I was watching Star Trek and having them say something stupid like, "Haha! Did Scotty get beamed up?" I consider Star Trek to be high-quality with its great graphics and intelligent writing (not all of it though) and if the first weekend's profits catch people's attention I don't think I would get so much crap about being a fan. I get enough of that just being a Mac user. That's all.
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I wasn't trying to be a dick. Just letting everyone know how much fun shows are in Hollywood.
Anyways, I saw the movie on Friday. It was better than Generations, better than Insurrection (big suprise), but I still think First Contact was better.
*************SPOILER ALERT!!!!!*****************
I won't try to spoil it, but during the movie's first hour, a very special quest makes his/her appearence on an encrypted sub-space message. Some people here are going to be very happy about it...LOL
The ending was a huge shock when you know who dies...
Other than that, it was alright. The battle scenes were really cool.
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I heard that Wesley was going to be at the wedding at the beginning, but I didn't spot him. They should have given him a head shot or a speaking part or something. Did anyone see him?
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I like star trek, but porno is better.
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Trek appeals to the brain, porn appeals to the dick... i dont think they can even be compared!!!
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i'm going to have to stop reading this thread, nemesis isn't out till the 4th of january here. and i always wait about a week to avoid the rush... (i bet there will be no klingon suits in the freezing clapham january!
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Highly doubt Klingons... but i wore my uniform to the first showing here... and froze my balls off! The movie was worth it, as were the kids that wanted to have me sign pictures (do they think just because i have a uniform im in the fucking movie or something?) Unfortunately, it looks like the stereotypes are going to die the same time the franchise does... :(
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i kinda liked babylon 5 more myself, untill the very very very very very end of it/*crusade, tnn got greedy and brain drained poor jms*/ the plot was always consistant, everyepisode had continuty, unlike the star trek "hey, lets shit a story out and make an episode from it" B5 was well planed and written. im actally going to buy the expensive dvd set.
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Yeah, B5 was a great show. Too bad fucking TNT wanted to make Crusade into a porn, otherwise JMS wouldn't have had to end it himself like that. A few years ago I was involved in a movement to start Crusade up again about two years after it was canceled. The entire cast was willing to come back, JMS had new story ideas, even Foundation Imaging was eager to start again, we just had to convince the Sci-Fi Channel to pick it up. It would have happened too, but remember that crappy piece of shit Legend of the Rangers? If it had done well there was no doubt that Sci-Fi would have taken Crusade under its wing, but Legend of the Rangers was a complete piece of shit that was over-advertised and really had nothing to do with any legends of any rangers at all! Suffice it to say, as soon as Legend of the Rangers premiered (and it has never been shown again since for some reason!) the entire Crusade Campaign was forgotten and left to rot, thanks to a mixture os TNT's dumbassiness and Sci-Fi Pictures' cheapness and stupidity! Now Crusade really is dead!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Jeez, I sort of got started on a rant there...
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B5 was cool....although i didn't start watching it till a few years after it was done....(it was made in 95, right?)
hmm.....i like legend of the rangers better then crusade...crusade seemed kinda.....boring.
i just want to know if sci-fi is going to make more legend of the rangers soon.....
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Nemesis is lucky if it's as good as Star Trek 3.
I, for one am glad it's over. Rick Berman ruined Trek. Brannon Braga took his debacles and wrote shitty scripts for them. Berman got the best actors, the best FX guys, and the best cinematographers to make the worst Sci-Fi of the last 50 years, aside from maybe Plan 9 from Outer Space.
I think Forbidden Planet was better than Voyager. Yes. One of the worst movies in history was better than a 7 year series with a few actual good eps. Even those few good points couldn't save it. Enterprise might do better since Braga is retiring (call it a mercy killing!) and Majel Barrett-Roddenberry is calling for Berman to leave.
May the Great Bird of the Galaxy have mercy on their souls for ruining his vision. I hope Berman and Braga choke on each others'... oops. Not nice.
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Star Trek Nemesis made 18.5 million dollars (US) last Fri/Saturday in case you were curious.
EDIT: That is:
11.533 Million UK Pounds
18 Million Euros
[ December 18, 2002: Message edited by: The Muffin Man ]
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Pretty sad that the stupid J. Lo movie beat out star trek. At least Nemesis beat the Hot Chick's ass.
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argh. Went to the movies tonite. Drumline was sold out. LOTR wasn't.
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Fett...
If you're seeing LOTR in any theater this week, you are as stupid as some people accuse you of being.
Anyway, I thought it was pretty disgusting that Drumline was getting scalper's attention here and Nemesis barely sold out three shows.
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quote:
Originally posted by The Rev. Annorax:
Fett...
If you're seeing LOTR in any theater this week, you are as stupid as some people accuse you of being.
Please explain your curious post? Are you a Tolkien elitest, or just stupid?
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Not a fantasy fan Annorax?
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Saw it twice the day it came out actually. Spend 6 1/2 hours in the same theater. (though, the 2nd time was a few hours after the first.) Got out at 1 in the morning...
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Trek appeals to the brain, porn appeals to the dick... i dont think they can even be compared!!!
I wish they would get intertwined. I'd love to see Marina Sirtis, with her huge set of funbags, getting railed over the tactical station.
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quote:
Originally posted by LorKorub / BOB:
I wish they would get intertwined. I'd love to see Marina Sirtis, with her huge set of funbags, getting railed over the tactical station.
How about Dax and her past-life's wife getting it on? :D :D :D :D