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Miscellaneous => The Lounge => Topic started by: Great_Satan on 3 September 2003, 06:46

Title: A peaceful religion?
Post by: Great_Satan on 3 September 2003, 06:46: Is Islam a peaceful religion?

http://www.masada2000.org/islam.html (http://www.masada2000.org/islam.html)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2829059.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2829059.stm)

http://embark.to/AMS (http://embark.to/AMS)

http://atheism.about.com/cs/islamandviolence/ (http://atheism.about.com/cs/islamandviolence/)

http://www.twin-towers.net/al-farooq_photos.htm (http://www.twin-towers.net/al-farooq_photos.htm)

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/southeast/08/17/martyr.culture/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/southeast/08/17/martyr.culture/index.html)

http://muslim-quotes.netfirms.com/jihad.html (http://muslim-quotes.netfirms.com/jihad.html)

http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/amil30611.htm (http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/amil30611.htm)

http://www.domini.org/openbook/home.htm (http://www.domini.org/openbook/home.htm)

http://www.persecution.org/news/PR_2002/alert2002-08-16.html (http://www.persecution.org/news/PR_2002/alert2002-08-16.html)

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=9583 (http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=9583)

http://www.sciencemadness.org/scipics/HowEastWon3.PDF (http://www.sciencemadness.org/scipics/HowEastWon3.PDF)

[ September 02, 2003: Message edited by: Great_Satan ]
Title: A peaceful religion?
Post by: billy_gates on 3 September 2003, 06:51: there are no peaceful religions. Religions are the cause of nearly every war... ever.
Title: A peaceful religion?
Post by: hm_murdock on 3 September 2003, 06:54: Islam is hardly peaceful.

Christianity is hardly peaceful.

Judaism is a little more peaceful then them, but still, hardly peaceful.
Title: A peaceful religion?
Post by: Laukev7 on 3 September 2003, 07:46: quote:
Originally posted by Jimmy James is COOL:
Islam is hardly peaceful.

Christianity is hardly peaceful.

Judaism is a little more peaceful then them, but still, hardly peaceful.

*cough* Zionism *cough*

[ September 02, 2003: Message edited by: Laukev7: Defender of Canada ]
Title: A peaceful religion?
Post by: Great_Satan on 3 September 2003, 07:53: See what Daniel Pipes says.

http://www.danielpipes.org/ (http://www.danielpipes.org/)
Title: A peaceful religion?
Post by: Laukev7 on 3 September 2003, 08:00: I briefly skimmed through those sites. Sorry, but this is utter rubbish. I won't go into details, unless you want me to, but many of these sites present a bunch of claims without supporting them with actual or reliable facts, or even citations from the Qu'ran.
Title: A peaceful religion?
Post by: Great_Satan on 3 September 2003, 08:57: The ones who can give you the passages from the Quran are here.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/index.php (http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/index.php)
Title: A peaceful religion?
Post by: Great_Satan on 3 September 2003, 21:02: Look what this cleric says about the Quran.

quote:

During the trial el-Faisal argued that his words were taken from the Koran, the Muslim holy book, and that he had been misrepresented.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2829059.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2829059.stm)

[ September 03, 2003: Message edited by: Great_Satan ]
Title: A peaceful religion?
Post by: Great_Satan on 3 September 2003, 21:10: Mark Gabriel gives you the exact passages from the Quran. Thanks for reminding me.

Here's some pages from Mark Gabriel's book 'Islam & Terrorism' in pdf format. You can download Adobe Acrobat Reader for free if you don't have it already.
http://www.adobe.com (http://www.adobe.com)

The book was written by a former professor (Mark A. Gabriel a former Muslim) of Islamic history at Al-Azher University in Cairo, Egypt. He was imprisoned for arguing peace vs. terrorism as discussed in the Koran. When he was released from prison a pharmacist later gave him a bible which he read which led to him converting to Christianity. His father tried to shoot him to death when he discovered his son converted to Christianity. Mark Gabriel went on the run, immigrated to the west and wrote this book.

http://www.sciencemadness.org/scipics/Chapter4.pdf (http://www.sciencemadness.org/scipics/Chapter4.pdf)

http://www.sciencemadness.org/scipics/Chapter5.pdf (http://www.sciencemadness.org/scipics/Chapter5.pdf)

http://www.sciencemadness.org/scipics/DeceitChapter6.pdf (http://www.sciencemadness.org/scipics/DeceitChapter6.pdf)

http://www.sciencemadness.org/scipics/MuslimPastorCh7.pdf (http://www.sciencemadness.org/scipics/MuslimPastorCh7.pdf)

http://www.sciencemadness.org/scipics/3StagesJihadCh11.pdf (http://www.sciencemadness.org/scipics/3StagesJihadCh11.pdf)

Islam and Terrorism:
http://cbw.strang.com/c.cgi?ProdID=8847&Source=CNSITE (http://cbw.strang.com/c.cgi?ProdID=8847&Source=CNSITE)

other books:
http://cbw.strang.com/c.cgi?ProdID=9568&Source=CNSITE (http://cbw.strang.com/c.cgi?ProdID=9568&Source=CNSITE)

http://cl.strang.com/pdfs/9568.pdf (http://cl.strang.com/pdfs/9568.pdf)

http://cbw.strang.com/c.cgi?ProdID=4167&Source=CNSITE (http://cbw.strang.com/c.cgi?ProdID=4167&Source=CNSITE)
Title: A peaceful religion?
Post by: TheQuirk on 3 September 2003, 21:30: quote:
Originally posted by Laukev7: Defender of Canada:

*cough* Zionism *cough*

[ September 02, 2003: Message edited by: Laukev7: Defender of Canada ]

Yeah! What an EVIL ZIONIST! Good thing we're smart enough to see through his OBVIOUS LIES concerning Palestine and...

...oh wait...
Title: A peaceful religion?
Post by: Laukev7 on 3 September 2003, 21:33: http://www.geocities.com/freedomwarrior5000/nastyxverses.htm (http://www.geocities.com/freedomwarrior5000/nastyxverses.htm)

http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/darkbible4.htm (http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/darkbible4.htm)
**** THIS ONE IS A MUST-READ. ****

http://www.islam101.com/terror/bibleT.htm (http://www.islam101.com/terror/bibleT.htm)
(biased source, but he does have a point)

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0103/bibleviolence.html (http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0103/bibleviolence.html)

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31080 (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31080)

[ September 03, 2003: Message edited by: Laukev7: Defender of Canada ]
Title: A peaceful religion?
Post by: Great_Satan on 3 September 2003, 21:43: A couple of news sources tell the same story. They are coming to Canada, too.

http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/egyptisan.htm (http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/egyptisan.htm)

http://www.herald.ns.ca/stories/2003/04/29/f203.raw.html (http://www.herald.ns.ca/stories/2003/04/29/f203.raw.html)

http://www.command-post.org/gwot/2_archives/000270.html (http://www.command-post.org/gwot/2_archives/000270.html)

http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=6400 (http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=6400)
Title: A peaceful religion?
Post by: mobrien_12 on 3 September 2003, 10:06: Islam is a religion. It like many others has been perverted and used as a tool by those who seek power.

Great_Satan, if your point is that there are a lot of nutcase muslims in the world, there is no question. That doesn't mean the religion is bad. Christianity has been horribly perverted times through history:

1) the crusades
2) the inquisition
3) the KKK (yeah them's all God fearing boys)

Personally, I like the crusades. Look at the sacking of Constantinople: christian terrorism on a massive scale against a christian city!

Don't judge a religion or a people based on a few nutcases and power hungry manipulators.

Like Claremont wrote
"God Loves, man kills."

[ September 03, 2003: Message edited by: M. O'Brien ]
Title: A peaceful religion?
Post by: cahult on 4 September 2003, 00:16: Even Buddhism has had its share of bloodshed. I don
Title: A peaceful religion?
Post by: HibbeeBoy on 4 September 2003, 00:26: There is nothing really wrong with religion (well other than it's a crock of shit), it's the fundaMENTALists that are the problem.
Title: A peaceful religion?
Post by: jasonlane on 4 September 2003, 01:19: Ideas are great, there flexible, they can change. If you have an idea and you acquire knew knowledge you can modifiy your idea to reflect that truth.

Beliefs on the otherhand offers no such flexibility. This is only aggrevated by the fact that so called Christians and so called Muslims, infact so called in just about every faith think there doing the right thing. The facts are that for example in both the Bible and Quaran it says don't kill. Period. need we say more....

So religion is flawed from it's very onset by flawed participants. Flawed people with a belief are something to be very wary of.
Title: A peaceful religion?
Post by: Calum on 4 September 2003, 13:21: quote:
Originally posted by jeffberg: Mac Capitalist:
there are no peaceful religions. Religions are the cause of nearly every war... ever.

mine is peaceful:

http://www.polytheism.org.uk/ (http://www.polytheism.org.uk/)
Title: A peaceful religion?
Post by: flap on 5 September 2003, 18:05: quote:
Originally posted by TheQuirk:

Yeah! What an EVIL ZIONIST! Good thing we're smart enough to see through his OBVIOUS LIES concerning Palestine and...

...oh wait...

What does that mean?
Title: A peaceful religion?
Post by: Calum on 5 September 2003, 19:18: it's sarcasm, but i can't tell what direction it leans because i can't tell if laukev is saying that zionism is peaceful or not in the first place.

also it's even harder to figure out since both israel and the us seem to have an irrational and immoral hatred of the palestinians which is the sole cause of the prolonged situation of tension in the middle east.
(but it keeps oil prices low, yes?)
Title: A peaceful religion?
Post by: Faust on 5 September 2003, 23:15: I do hope we all know the Koran specifically forbids either being an aggressor or even so much as "growing a substance that is harmful to your fellow man." (The taliban used the last to declare that no farmer in afghanistan could grow poppies and killing people who did, thus destroying afghanistans heroin output.) By the way I have read sections of the Koran and it doesn't seem too bad to me.
Title: A peaceful religion?
Post by: HibbeeBoy on 6 September 2003, 00:59: quote:
Originally posted by Faust:
I do hope we all know the Koran specifically forbids either being an aggressor or even so much as "growing a substance that is harmful to your fellow man." (The taliban used the last to declare that no farmer in afghanistan could grow poppies and killing people who did, thus destroying afghanistans heroin output.)

Like fuck they did !! They only did it when they were bribed with money from the US government. Not only that, they continued to grow it and turn a blind eye when it suited them. Where do you think the money came from to pay for their Toyota 4x4?

As you imply, there is nothing wrong with the koran and there is nothing wrong with islam, it's the fundamentalist crack pots that hijack it that are the problem.
Title: A peaceful religion?
Post by: Laukev7 on 6 September 2003, 02:09: quote:
i can't tell if laukev is saying that zionism is peaceful or not in the first place.

Not peaceful.
Title: A peaceful religion?
Post by: psyjax on 6 September 2003, 02:27: Ive come to the conclusion that all major organized religion is a form of destructive mind control, that provides an easy means for men to justify their actions, weather good or otherwise.

If there is a God, he likely dosn't care very much what we are running around doing here, considering that we are a very small component of this great universe.

Oh, and no, the Bible nor the Koran have been perverted by men, they are both infact hevely laden with violent self richeous rehtoric.

Don't belive me? Read up on Moses's little rampage in the Desert. Numbers 31:1-17 ought to clear up any missconceptions about the great morals tought in the Bible. For those with out that silly book, here is the passage:


quote:
Num 31:1     And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

    Num 31:2     Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites: afterward shalt thou be gathered unto thy people.

    Num 31:3     And Moses spake unto the people, saying, Arm some of yourselves unto the war, and let them go against the Midianites, and avenge the LORD of Midian.

    Num 31:4     Of every tribe a thousand, throughout all the tribes of Israel, shall ye send to the war.

    Num 31:5     So there were delivered out of the thousands of Israel, a thousand of [every] tribe, twelve thousand armed for war.

    Num 31:6     And Moses sent them to the war, a thousand of [every] tribe, them and Phinehas the son of Eleazar the priest, to the war, with the holy instruments, and the trumpets to blow in his hand.

    Num 31:7     And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.

    Num 31:8     And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; [namely], Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.

    Num 31:9     And the children of Israel took [all] the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.

    Num 31:10     And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.

    Num 31:11     And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, [both] of men and of beasts.

    Num 31:12     And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which [are] by Jordan [near] Jericho.

    Num 31:13     And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.

    Num 31:14     And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, [with] the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.

    Num 31:15     And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?

    Num 31:16     Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.

    Num 31:17     Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

    Num 31:18     But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

This same philosophy reins suppreme today in both the Zionist mindset and in all Fundamental religion. The idea that somehow God likes you a whole lot more than everyone else, and anything you do in his name is hunkey dorie.

Same reason the Isrealies think it's ok to wipe out the palestinians. Hey, what would you think if the founding tenet of your religion is that God gave you that land? That you have devine right to it. Fuckit, kill everyone and take the goods.

Same with Islam and christianity. The list goes on.

[ September 05, 2003: Message edited by: psyjax: plain 'ol psyjax ]
Title: A peaceful religion?
Post by: TheQuirk on 6 September 2003, 04:17: quote:
Originally posted by Calum:
it's sarcasm, but i can't tell what direction it leans because i can't tell if laukev is saying that zionism is peaceful or not in the first place.

also it's even harder to figure out since both israel and the us seem to have an irrational and immoral hatred of the palestinians which is the sole cause of the prolonged situation of tension in the middle east.
(but it keeps oil prices low, yes?)

Heh. The definition of a zionist:

"A Jewish movement that arose in the late 19th century in response to growing anti-Semitism and sought to reestablish a Jewish homeland in Palestine. Modern Zionism is concerned with the support and development of the state of Israel."

The word was just misused.
Title: A peaceful religion?
Post by: psyjax on 6 September 2003, 04:38: Well, the early Zionist movement is a very interesting topic. They initially had nothing to do with anti-semitism, they simply belived it was their God given right to own israel.

After WWII, the jewish diaspora floked to the zionist movement, and the Anti-semitism card was playd in order to gain worldwide backing for a Jewsih homeland.

Brittain was the first to give a small portion of isreals coastline to the Jews. Using foreign money (mainly US and northern Europe were the bulk of these Jews came from) they slowley bought up palestinian land, farmland, buissnesses etc. The palestinians coulden't compeat with this economic takeover since they were so poor and before they new it the Jews had most of the power and were far overstepping their bundaries.

This culminated in a massive riot which the Brittish army had to quell. The story gets much longer and more horrible than this and you don't have to go far to read it. Just pick up a copy of the Encyclopedia Brittanica and lookup Isreal. It's all there, factual, and ugly, just like it really happend.
Title: A peaceful religion?
Post by: Great_Satan on 11 September 2003, 06:27: Here's some pages from Mark Gabriel's book 'Islam & Terrorism' in pdf format. You can download Adobe Acrobat Reader for free if you don't have it already.
http://www.adobe.com (http://www.adobe.com)

The book was written by a former professor (Mark A. Gabriel a former Muslim) of Islamic history at Al-Azher University in Cairo, Egypt. He was imprisoned for arguing peace vs. terrorism as discussed in the Koran. When he was released from prison a pharmacist later gave him a bible which he read which led to him converting to Christianity. His father tried to shoot him to death when he discovered his son converted to Christianity. Mark Gabriel went on the run, immigrated to the west and wrote this book.

http://www.sciencemadness.org/scipics/Chapter4.pdf (http://www.sciencemadness.org/scipics/Chapter4.pdf)

http://www.sciencemadness.org/scipics/Chapter5.pdf (http://www.sciencemadness.org/scipics/Chapter5.pdf)

http://www.sciencemadness.org/scipics/DeceitChapter6.pdf (http://www.sciencemadness.org/scipics/DeceitChapter6.pdf)

http://www.sciencemadness.org/scipics/MuslimPastorCh7.pdf (http://www.sciencemadness.org/scipics/MuslimPastorCh7.pdf)

http://www.sciencemadness.org/scipics/3StagesJihadCh11.pdf (http://www.sciencemadness.org/scipics/3StagesJihadCh11.pdf)

Islam and Terrorism:
http://cbw.strang.com/c.cgi?ProdID=8847&Source=CNSITE (http://cbw.strang.com/c.cgi?ProdID=8847&Source=CNSITE)

other books:
http://cbw.strang.com/c.cgi?ProdID=9568&Source=CNSITE (http://cbw.strang.com/c.cgi?ProdID=9568&Source=CNSITE)

http://cl.strang.com/pdfs/9568.pdf (http://cl.strang.com/pdfs/9568.pdf)

http://cbw.strang.com/c.cgi?ProdID=4167&Source=CNSITE (http://cbw.strang.com/c.cgi?ProdID=4167&Source=CNSITE)
Title: A peaceful religion?
Post by: Faust on 11 September 2003, 08:29: Oh my lord... please dear fucking god think before you open you mouth. How about putting down some of *YOUR* reasons for disliking the islamic faith rather than blindly parroting (in this case linking to) some other guys obfusucated illogical rant. When a group starts dropping the names of "experts" rather than trying to put their case themselves its almost always a bad sign - it also implies you dont understand the points they make well enough to paraphrase them in your own arguments.
Title: A peaceful religion?
Post by: Faust on 11 September 2003, 08:55: Wow, love that link to the book review. One mans unverifiable opinion. Certainly helped me make my mind up. :rolleyes: