Stop Microsoft
Miscellaneous => The Lounge => Topic started by: insomnia on 24 May 2004, 04:43
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(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40187000/jpg/_40187773_michael_moore_203afpb.jpg)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/film/3740939.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/film/3740939.stm)
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I think he looks really proud standing there with the prize and he have every right to be.
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The movie is a good start at exposing the truth behind the Bush family, but it's nowhere what really needs to be done, since it completely fails to bring up that 9/11 was staged by the Bush administration.
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If you look at the posted pic very carefully, it looks like he's breathing smoke out his nostrils. :D
Anyway, what was this movie about exactly? Is it just more blah blah Bush is evil blah blah? :confused:
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It's a very thorough investigation into the details what most people aleady know - that the Bush family has been in bed with bin Laden and the Saudis for decades for their oil business. Also, many details with evidence emerge about what has the Bush administration has been up to since before even taking office in January 2001.
Hopefully, there is also mention of Bush Sr.'s father, Prescott Bush, who financed the Nazis duing WWII.
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I really do not like Bush, but I am very sceptical when people say he staged 9/11. I just really have a hard time buying that.
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quote:
Originally posted by Paladin9:
I really do not like Bush, but I am very sceptical when people say he staged 9/11. I just really have a hard time buying that.
It would not be unprecedented. Do a google search about Operation Northwoods.
Bush was probably complacent, but I don't think he actually planned the attacks. The PNAC people in his government, Perle, Wolfowitz, Dumbsfeld et alia, on the other hand, have probably tried to cover up information about the attacks and facilitated the task for the 'terrorists', who may or may not be affiliated with them.
[ May 24, 2004: Message edited by: Laukev7 ]
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quote:
Originally posted by Paladin9:
I really do not like Bush, but I am very sceptical when people say he staged 9/11. I just really have a hard time buying that.
The hawks of the US government have planned to terrorize their own people before to get them to agree to war, and have actually done. In 1948, the dead President Roosevelt was found guilty of completely allowing Pearl Harbor to take place. Documents unclassified in 1994 proved it.
In 1962 military and wa hungry hawks made a plan to stage a terrorist attack in Florida to justify invading cuba. Kennedy rejected it, possibly a reason for his death. It was proved in 2001 when the Pentagon plan was declassified.
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And to add to your post xeen
www.copvcia.com (http://www.copvcia.com) also state what you mentioned.
here, is a movie about the guy. Well him being a speaker.
http://childb.csolve.net/perfect/software/mov/ (http://childb.csolve.net/perfect/software/mov/)
I have't downloaded that movie yet since i'm in the market of a new ADSL modem because the old one keeps getting cut out. But yea. If I ever do get t hat movi. I'll probably host that too.
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quote:
Originally posted by Laukev7:
It would not be unprecedented. Do a google search about Operation Northwoods.
Bush was probably complacent, but I don't think he actually planned the attacks. The PNAC people in his government, Perle, Wolfowitz, Dumbsfeld et alia, on the other hand, have probably tried to cover up information about the attacks and facilitated the task for the 'terrorists', who may or may not be affiliated with them.
[ May 24, 2004: Message edited by: Laukev7 ]
If that was true, I'm sure the FBI would not be allowing you, or Micheal Moore especially, to tell people about it.
I really liked Michael Moore before he went all political. ;)
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quote:
Originally posted by Claris:
If that was true, I'm sure the FBI would not be allowing you, or Micheal Moore especially, to tell people about it.
I really liked Michael Moore before he went all political. ;)
They did try to stop him.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3719261.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3719261.stm)
And some people actually get death threats for denouncing 911. But the FBI couldn't do much against me since I'm not American (unless you mean the CIA).
At any rate, I doubt the FBI is involved in 911, so I don't see why they would try to stop anyone.
[ May 26, 2004: Message edited by: Laukev7 ]
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im more inclined to think that 9/11 happened because the government is just not that smart.
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I would have been, too, but there is just too much evidence. But then, they aren't very bright even if it is a conspiracy, because it's a rather sloppy one.
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quote:
If that was true, I'm sure the FBI would not be allowing you, or Micheal Moore especially, to tell people about it.
It it's true then don't you think the FBI censoring anyone who made such a claim would strongly indicate their guilt?
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The differnce between this war and the many wars of the past is the fact that knowledge is fa more abundant.
Before, in other wars, there was no internet or freedom of information. Well not like it is now.
I'm very glad that some people have come farward and put out the evedence. So consipiracy theors are much less this time around.
Just by going to
www.comvcia.com (http://www.copvcia.com) (which the fbi tried to cencour.) can be found information that is crediable.
Like one has already said. There is already enough evedence that the goverment new and even planned 9/11!
[ May 27, 2004: Message edited by: -=Solaris.M.K.A=- ]
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It's official now. Fahrenheit 911 will hit theaters June 25!!
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quote:
Originally posted by xeen:
It's official now. Fahrenheit 911 will hit theaters June 25!!
Thanks xeen for the update. Will be looking forward to it
:D
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whoa i saw a commercial for it today.
looks kinda interesting
[ June 15, 2004: Message edited by: The Stiller ]
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only 5 more days to go! :D
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quote:
Originally posted by -=Solaris.M.K.A=-:
only 5 more days to go! :D
Only 135 days to go until John Kerry is (hopefully) elected president!
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quote:
Originally posted by Paladin9:
Only 135 days to go until John Kerry is (hopefully) elected president!
yea, I can't wait for that too! :D I can't wait till that nazi is booted from office! (http://tongue.gif)
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quote:
Originally posted by -=Solaris.M.K.A=-:
...nazi...
and with that, this discussion is now over, thanks to Godwins Law.
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he is cool....in a sad kind of way.
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quote:
Originally posted by Sauron: Troll Warrior:
and with that, this discussion is now over, thanks to Godwins Law.
Quirk's Exception: Intentional invocation of this so-called
"Nazi Clause" is ineffectual.
Sorry, folks. Nice try, though
[ June 21, 2004: Message edited by: -=Solaris.M.K.A=- ]
[ June 21, 2004: Message edited by: -=Solaris.M.K.A=- ]
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quote:
Originally posted by -=Solaris.M.K.A=-:
Quirk's Exception: Intentional invocation of this so-called
"Nazi Clause" is ineffectual.
Sorry, folks. Nice try, though
[ June 21, 2004: Message edited by: -=Solaris.M.K.A=- ]
[ June 21, 2004: Message edited by: -=Solaris.M.K.A=- ]
that exception is for when you say something to the degree of
quote:
OK. Godwins Law. you're a nazi, discussion over.
that exception applies to when the same person who calls nazi with the INTENT of triggering Godwin's Law
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Look, I think Bush is the worst president this country ever had. BUT, I do not think it is fair to call him a Nazi. When you do this, you start to be extreme in a "Rush Limbaugh" sort of way. We do not want to do that.
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quote:
Originally posted by Paladin9:
Look, I think Bush is the worst president this country ever had. BUT, I do not think it is fair to call him a Nazi. When you do this, you start to be extreme in a "Rush Limbaugh" sort of way. We do not want to do that.
ok. He has killed millions of innicent people! Braught about racism in his 'followers,' Braught about facist laws and killed freedom.
Yup I think its VERY fair to call him a Nazi! If he isn't then you might as well say that Hitler was a good guy that made a few 'bad mistakes'
Yea right!
He is what he is and just because someone is 'american' does not mean he can do all the things as the old german nazi did! The fact on what is happening now has already happened then. It should of been obvious that this is WAY wrong.
So why should a 'presedent' be exused when he has done the same things.
The only difference between bush and hitler is that bush IS VERY stupid. Hitler was not.
If his followers and the like don't like that label then don't act like one!
[ June 22, 2004: Message edited by: -=Solaris.M.K.A=- ]
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quote:
Originally posted by -=Solaris.M.K.A=-:
ok. He has killed millions of innicent people! Braught about racism in his 'followers,' Braught about facist laws and killed freedom.
[ June 22, 2004: Message edited by: -=Solaris.M.K.A=- ]
are you really sure its millions?
and most of the people already were pretty racist before the 9/11 thing
and by laws that kill freedom im guessing you mean the patriot act. its not really giving them any power they didn't have before.
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quote:
Originally posted by The Stiller:
are you really sure its millions?
http://civilians.info/iraq/ (http://civilians.info/iraq/)
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and most of the people already were pretty racist before the 9/11 thing
Not to the point that someone could get pulled over for their skin color. Well not here in Canada at least, that did change due to 9/11, or I should say increased indefinatly!
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and by laws that kill freedom im guessing you mean the patriot act. its not really giving them any power they didn't have before.
Oh yea, by before, they could search your house even when you wern't there. They can deny you a lawyer or with hold you beyond the 24 hour limit, by holding a secret court against you without letting them disclose evedence that they have aginst you, to you?
That all happend AFTER bushes term. Not before.
Exsactly why am I explaining this? All of this is so damn evedent! Its as plain as day.
[ June 22, 2004: Message edited by: -=Solaris.M.K.A=- ]
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quote:
Not to the point that someone could get pulled over for their skin color. Well not here in Canada at least, that did change due to 9/11, or I should say increased indefinatly!
actually cops have always done that. cops are assholes. i personally think that every police officer should be elected by the people of the neighborhood.
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Oh yea, by before, they could search your house even when you wern't there. They can deny you a lawyer or with hold you beyond the 24 hour limit, by holding a secret court against you without letting them disclose evedence that they have aginst you, to you?
i believe once american bastard posted somewhere else that he could take a guy in and process him without any lawyers being informed or rights being violated.
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quote:
Originally posted by The Stiller:
i believe once american bastard posted somewhere else that he could take a guy in and process him without any lawyers being informed or rights being violated.
If a person simply did not know their rights then yes a cop could use that advantage and violate them. That is true. However, before the patriot act, those that do know their rights did provent those cops to take advantage of them. Even though it pissess the cops off they still can't do anything to you. Up till now that is.
And that idea of electing cops, is actualy a very good one! It would actualy help!
I totaly agree with you though cops are assholes :D
[ June 22, 2004: Message edited by: -=Solaris.M.K.A=- ]
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quote:
Originally posted by -=Solaris.M.K.A=-:
I totaly agree with you though cops are assholes :D
[ June 22, 2004: Message edited by: -=Solaris.M.K.A=- ]
glad we can agree on something :D
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quote:
Originally posted by Paladin9:
Look, I think Bush is the worst president this country ever had. BUT, I do not think it is fair to call him a Nazi. When you do this, you start to be extreme in a "Rush Limbaugh" sort of way. We do not want to do that.
I agree. Not even Hitler deserves that comparison.
[ June 22, 2004: Message edited by: flap ]
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quote:
Originally posted by flap:
I agree. Not even Hitler deserves that comparison.
[ June 22, 2004: Message edited by: flap ]
LOL good answer!
:D
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quote:
Originally posted by flap:
I agree. Not even Hitler deserves that comparison.
Ha Ha! But seriously, dont get me wrong. Bush is very bad, but he aint no Hitler.
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quote:
Originally posted by Paladin9:
Ha Ha! But seriously, dont get me wrong. Bush is very bad, but he aint no Hitler.
No he isn't 'exactly' like hitler. Like I said at least hitler was smart. Bush is not. But everything else is the same.
[ June 23, 2004: Message edited by: -=Solaris.M.K.A=- ]
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Bush isn't a Nazi - as Nazi is short for National Socialist and there is nothing socialist about Bush.
On the other hand.. he is an absolute Facist.
As for being very unlike Hitler - is Iraq Bush's "Last territorial claim"?
zooloo
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Hitler was an intelligent man. Bush is just an idiot, and a puppet for his fascist friends.
I think comparing Bush to Hitler is actually rude to Hitler, but comparing Hitler to the Bush Administration is right on.
http://www.hermes-press.com/nazification_step3.htm (http://www.hermes-press.com/nazification_step3.htm)
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What a load of crap. Bush isn't a dictator.
And comparing Hitler to Bush and vica versa is stupid, and it's something a crazy conspiracy theorist would do.
If Bush wins the election, it's because the people (are stupid) want Bush to stay.
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It's only stupid because their actions and motives aren't particularly comparable. Hitler was a racial crank, whereas Bush is only interested in securing the power and wealth of the elite of which he's a member. Don't make the mistake of assuming Bush is any less morally bereft than dictators like Hitler simply because he hasn't had the inclination or the ability to do what they did.
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quote:
Originally posted by Refalm:
What a load of crap. Bush isn't a dictator.
And comparing Hitler to Bush and vica versa is stupid, and it's something a crazy conspiracy theorist would do.
If Bush wins the election, it's because the people (are stupid) want Bush to stay.
quoted for awsomeness
if bush wins its probably because they're far more organized. most of the anti-bush folk are pretty young and dont vote.
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quote:
Originally posted by Refalm:
What a load of crap. Bush isn't a dictator.
He is if he puts pressure onto forren countries that do not think, act like him.
Also he is just by the very fact of what he has done in his 4 years in office.
Patriot Act, 9/11, Invasion of Iraq. If he wasn't he wouldn't of done such a thing.
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And comparing Hitler to Bush and vica versa is stupid, and it's something a crazy conspiracy theorist would do.
Accept consipiracy thearoies are just that, urban legands. There is facts to back up that Bush is a tyrant, eliminating the whole 'conspiracy theroy' part.
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If Bush wins the election, it's because the people (are stupid) want Bush to stay.
Not nessessaraly. Got into power due to his 'contacts.' *caugh*daddy*caugh*
[ June 23, 2004: Message edited by: -=Solaris.M.K.A=- ]
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quote:
Originally posted by The Stiller:
quoted for awsomeness
if bush wins its probably because they're far more organized. most of the anti-bush folk are pretty young and dont vote.
Its not just young people that are against bush, but even veterans and the like that actualy fought in the war. Even buisness tycoons and film actors as well as his fellow americans are aginst him. Its only the few VERY uneducated people who are not. The same people that would sit front of their cable box watching CNN and then blabber on the internet hwo they are right while evereyone else is wrong.
Besides even Hitler had followers. That still didn't make it right.
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quote:
Originally posted by xeen:
Hitler was an intelligent man. Bush is just an idiot, and a puppet for his fascist friends.
I think comparing Bush to Hitler is actually rude to Hitler, but comparing Hitler to the Bush Administration is right on.
http://www.hermes-press.com/nazification_step3.htm (http://www.hermes-press.com/nazification_step3.htm)
LOL actualy your right on xeen. One of the most dangerous men in his regime is John Ashcroft. Now there is a guy who is worse than bush.
But it goes with my saying. Bush isn't 'exactly' like hitler evemn though both goverments have done the same thing.
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quote:
Originally posted by zolo:
Bush isn't a Nazi - as Nazi is short for National Socialist and there is nothing socialist about Bush.
Yea, your right. But in Socialism. Its a system where the goverment takes care of some things to keep equality of life for its citizens. For exsample Canada is a socialist contry because we have free health care (Unless your in Ontario.)
But both hitler and Bush don't follow the socialist system but rather their own system that goes along their agenda.
They are a sub sociaty under the main sociaties beliefs and ideas.
Its more about a dictatorship and Fascism where one person(s)
has complete control of everything and what ever that person says goes. Its not for the people but for him and his 'buddies.' Basicaly Fascism
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On the other hand.. he is an absolute Facist.
I agree. He follows the system of Fascism
quote:
As for being very unlike Hitler - is Iraq Bush's "Last territorial claim"?
zooloo
I've been hearing in the news alot about Iran these days. I think that might be his next target on "the war on terror"
[ June 23, 2004: Message edited by: -=Solaris.M.K.A=- ]
[ June 23, 2004: Message edited by: -=Solaris.M.K.A=- ]
[ June 23, 2004: Message edited by: -=Solaris.M.K.A=- ]
[ June 23, 2004: Message edited by: -=Solaris.M.K.A=- ]
[ June 23, 2004: Message edited by: -=Solaris.M.K.A=- ]
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Bush is not a dictator. He sure acts like one, but he is nothing but a puppet. A better term for the current regime would be 'oligarchy' or 'plutocracy'. Bush is certainly a power hungry lunatic, but who's really in charge is the tentacular neoconservative mafia infiltrated in the government and the mass media. One only has to look at the signatures on the PNAC website to get a good sample of those people (though the PNAC is by no means the only organisation to be wary of).
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quote:
Originally posted by Laukev7:
Bush is not a dictator. He sure acts like one, but he is nothing but a puppet. A better term for the current regime would be 'oligarchy' or 'plutocracy'. Bush is certainly a power hungry lunatic, but who's really in charge is the tentacular neoconservative mafia infiltrated in the government and the mass media. One only has to look at the signatures on the PNAC website to get a good sample of those people (though the PNAC is by no means the only organisation to be wary of).
whats the "PNAC"? could you post a link?
:confused:
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So to get back to what I said before.
I can't wait till that nazi is out of office
Means I can't wait till that Nazi and his party gets out of office. But does not mean Bush is Hitler, just a really really dumb puppet. But him being gone would mean people like Ashcroft (Who really is like Hitler) and all the rest of his cronies, rumphiled, condolez rice etc, would be gone too.
Now is that better.
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quote:
Originally posted by Paladin9:
I really do not like Bush, but I am very sceptical when people say he staged 9/11. I just really have a hard time buying that.
me too actually, although i think there is little doubt that the cause of the 9/11 attack was initiated/provoked by the USA's foreign policy in the firstplace, intentionally or not.
also, re: Michael Moore, he makes documentaries and is a very level headed journalist. For this reason i think i can trust him a lot more than more sensationalist "journalists", and sources of propaghanda. Moore makes the effort to go the long way round so that whathe produces is factual and plausible. This is why he makes people angry, because they know that when they disagree with him, it is not because he is biased. He may be biased, but he gives you the straight option to see why in his work, and doesn't misrepresent his opinion as the only truth.
I too am looking forward to this new one. interesting to see that everybody in this thread says the same thing. remember a few years ago you couldn't say you liked michael moore or anything like that without dozens of foaming right wingers shouting about how they died in the war for us ungrateful youths and how we should be grateful the USA saw of the pinkos and made the world safe for us? (take a look around suckers)...
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quote:
Originally posted by -=Solaris.M.K.A=-:
whats the "PNAC"? could you post a link?
:confused:
See the STFW site (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=pnac&btnG=Google+Search) for information.
[ June 23, 2004: Message edited by: flap ]
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quote:
Originally posted by The Stiller:
are you really sure its millions?
so, are you saying it's okay for somebody to be responsible for thousands upon thousands of uneccessarydeaths, just so long as it's not millions?
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and most of the people already were pretty racist before the 9/11 thing
most? really? a majority perhaps, but can you really say with conviction that most people were already racist? (or that they are now?) that is pessimism in my opinion, and is also a generalisation which is unfounded. I say this however with no figures to back me up and no experience living in the states, but it just seems unlikely that the whole nation is filled with people who are mostly racist!
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and by laws that kill freedom im guessing you mean the patriot act. its not really giving them any power they didn't have before.
i suspect this is similar to the anti terrorism act and the terrorism act here in the UK. These acts simply strip away all the civil liberties (yes all, read the acts if you think i am exaggerating!) that we still had after the hideous criminal justice and public order act of 1994. Now, in this country we have no civil liberties at all (no right to free speech, peaceful mass action, freedom of expression, no right to know the name of an officer who stops and searches you etc) because we have no underlying constitution. The govt can simply pass a new law which supercedes any old ones that it contradicts. Perhaps this is one thing the USA's system has in its favour?
i suspect i am digressing...
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No, you are not digressing, Calum. I STFWed for information about the UK Anti-Terrorism Act, and you're right, it's appalling...
http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/resources/articles/pdfs/terrorism-april-2003.pdf (http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/resources/articles/pdfs/terrorism-april-2003.pdf)
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quote:
Originally posted by Laukev7:
No, you are not digressing, Calum. I STFWed for information about the UK Anti-Terrorism Act, and you're right, it's appalling...
http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/resources/articles/pdfs/terrorism-april-2003.pdf (http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/resources/articles/pdfs/terrorism-april-2003.pdf)
WoW! That really is messed! (http://graemlins/thumbsdown.gif)
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bush isnt smart enough to pull off something like 9/11
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quote:
Originally posted by WaWAR_BOB:
bush isnt smart enough to pull off something like 9/11
No, bush can't pull off 9/11 all by his lonsome. But he can with his total goone patrol regime.
Conolez rice, Ashcroft and the like.
Pluse he and his daddy do have connections. So a single person no. But as him being the presedent and the people that follow him, then yes he did! Pluse there is proof now that it was his idea and his making alone.
See ->
URL fixed. (http://childb.csolve.net/perfect/software/mov/The%20Truth%20And%20Lies%20Of%209-11%20-%20911%20-%20New-York%20-%20Wtc%20-%20Cia%20-%20Fbi%20-%20Pentagon%20-%20Nsa%20-%20George%20Bush%20-%20Usa%20-%20Vhs%20Xvid.avi)
[ June 27, 2004: Message edited by:
[ June 27, 2004: Message edited by: Laukev7 ]
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Bush, no. But they (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=pnac&btnG=Google+Search) are.
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....
its things like this that make me stockpile ammo and MREs...
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First of all, Solaris, fix that link. Now.
quote:
Originally posted by Calum is NOT a moderator:
These acts simply strip away all the civil liberties that we still had after the hideous criminal justice and public order act of 1994. Now, in this country we have no civil liberties at all (no right to free speech, peaceful mass action, freedom of expression, no right to know the name of an officer who stops and searches you etc)
That sounds highly unlikely. You don't have any freedom? Yeah, right.
I read some of the PDF Laukev posted. What I think the argument is in there, is that much of the Act leaves things very vague, so that they can *claim* that pretty much anything is terrorist activity. Right?
Well then, that's all speculation. You might not have liberties...but you still might. Go out and try, see what happens.
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What I think Calum meant is that those freedoms are no longer guaranteed, and nothing prevents the people from being screwed by the government whenever and however they please. That in itself is a huge step behind for a major democratic country.
[ June 27, 2004: Message edited by: Laukev7 ]
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Yeah, that's pretty much what I was thinking. However, Calum seems to do what lots of others do: talk about that and make it sound like you live in a police state. It seems to make the case sound more convincing that the government is evil.
Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. ;)
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ok, try this....
http://childb.csolve.net/perfect/software/mov/ (http://childb.csolve.net/perfect/software/mov/)
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That's a 700mb download, it was going at 36k/sec, which would take 5 hours. Too long.
What's it say? If it's about Bush staging 9/11, I've read all about it. Really.
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quote:
Originally posted by WMD:
That's a 700mb download, it was going at 36k/sec, which would take 5 hours. Too long.
What's it say? If it's about Bush staging 9/11, I've read all about it. Really.
yep. Thats about it. It was a movie done by 'from the wilderness.' A speaker explains the connections with documentations and such. Including the background of himself. So you know the credibility of the information given.
Its like Fahrenheit 9/11 but its not like a documentary like that of moore's its basicaly a guy on stage that explains different parts along with interviews with some guests and such. Its a good watch.
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Ok, I'll watch it tomorrow. Started the download again. Damn, this must be hosted from some guy's cable modem: 38.4k/sec, time 5:12:05 left. :D
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Ok, I watched it. The whole thing, it was like 2:17. Happy, Solaris? (http://tongue.gif)
Actually it was quite interesting. The guy's main idea seems to be that 9/11 was staged for drug money that the Taliban was preventing from entering the market. Blimey. Most stuff is just oil stories.
I found a torrent of the video, but my copy doesn't match the torrent (nor will the torrent connect). Ah well.