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Miscellaneous => The Lounge => Topic started by: Laukev7 on 17 July 2003, 21:11

Title: P2P might become illegal.
Post by: Laukev7 on 17 July 2003, 21:11
http://www.wired.com/news/digiwood/0,1412,59654,00.html (http://www.wired.com/news/digiwood/0,1412,59654,00.html)

Now you won't be allowed to transfer even legal stuff.

But on the other hand, what's the point of using p2p for legal stuff anyway, when you can download the demo/shareware/linux/ on the website anyway.

Edit: I misread the article. It said only for copyright copyright content. So I guess it's still safe to transfer stuff like OpenOffice.

[ July 17, 2003: Message edited by: Laukev7 ]

Title: P2P might become illegal.
Post by: xyle_one on 17 July 2003, 22:08
who transfers legal stuff with p2p? people like a free lunch, and p2p gave the the opportunity to skip out on the bill with ease. The people in power, the money men, need to maintain a level of control, and p2p was loosening their grip. too bad we used it to pirate music and software. oh, im sorry, "sharing" music & software. It was bound to happen. Soon, with firewalls, tcpa, palladium, drm, and illegal p2p. we will have no control over our computers. Maybe that is a good idea since we seem to use the internet only for porn and to get free, well, everything. It should have been used as it was meant to be used. A way to share information. whoops, we did it to ourselves. maybe instead of stealing software, we could have been using the free software, heloing to create better software, or creating music for tpeople to listen to instead of trying to make a buck. it is disgusting. [/pointless, rambling, rant]
Title: P2P might become illegal.
Post by: slave on 17 July 2003, 23:14
Unbeknowest to you all, I have invented a matter-copier that can copy any object using only hydrogen as fuel!  Why just yesterday, ecsyle, while you were out of your house I walked in and copied your Mac.  I'm using it as we speak.  I didn't think you'd mind, since I don't see how it affects you at all.  As a matter of fact I think I'll copy your car and your stereo system next week...  After that I'll use this device to destroy the American capitalist economy by giving away extremely expensive items for free! HA HA HA HA HAHAHAHA!  And nobody can stop me!
Title: P2P might become illegal.
Post by: xyle_one on 17 July 2003, 23:34
quote:
Originally posted by Linux User #5225982375:
Unbeknowest to you all, I have invented a matter-copier that can copy any object using only hydrogen as fuel!  Why just yesterday, ecsyle, while you were out of your house I walked in and copied your Mac.  I'm using it as we speak.  I didn't think you'd mind, since I don't see how it affects you at all.  As a matter of fact I think I'll copy your car and your stereo system next week...  After that I'll use this device to destroy the American capitalist economy by giving away extremely expensive items for free! HA HA HA HA HAHAHAHA!  And nobody can stop me!

word. could you , uh, go and copy me a new acura rsx? i like that car. maybe a new pc too  (http://smile.gif)

wait a minute... is that right? no. not in our world. in our society based on money & profit, it is wrong. but, "we shouldn't live in that society, some of you might say". yes, i agree. but stealing from it will not change it. it will only tighten their grip. we have to make them choose to live our way, and maybe we could even force it on them  ;)  . open source software goes against the way our world works and i love that. it might bring change. good change too  (http://smile.gif)
Title: P2P might become illegal.
Post by: Stryker on 18 July 2003, 00:04
quote:
Originally posted by ecsyle:951:

word. could you , uh, go and copy me a new acura rsx?


It'd be intresting to see them sue you for making such a request.

Some would argue that that is not a copyright issue though, rather a patent issue. Although I do agree with you. Just don't make 10,000 of them and give them away. make 1 or 2 for your friends.
Title: P2P might become illegal.
Post by: Laukev7 on 18 July 2003, 00:26
Not to rain on your parade, but it would not only ruin the capitalistic system, I'm afraid.

You should not forget that we need substance to transform to duplicate matter. One way or another, we would need a system to limit the use of such an invention, or we might end up transfoming the whole planet. If six billion people started reproducing matter, this would happen in no time.
Title: P2P might become illegal.
Post by: Stryker on 18 July 2003, 04:16
quote:
Originally posted by Laukev7:
Not to rain on your parade, but it would not only ruin the capitalistic system, I'm afraid.

You should not forget that we need substance to transform to duplicate matter. One way or another, we would need a system to limit the use of such an invention, or we might end up transfoming the whole planet. If six billion people started reproducing matter, this would happen in no time.


So you are running on the fear that we will run out of mass storage devices?
Title: P2P might become illegal.
Post by: Laukev7 on 18 July 2003, 04:30
quote:
So you are running on the fear that we will run out of mass storage devices?


That was not the point I was making. I was questioning the technical merits of a matter duplicator, which is an entirely different point than the ethics of that practice.
Title: P2P might become illegal.
Post by: Stryker on 18 July 2003, 04:55
We can turn matter into energy (burning it) why can't we be authorized to do the opposite?
Title: P2P might become illegal.
Post by: Laukev7 on 18 July 2003, 05:06
quote:
We can turn matter into energy (burning it) why can't we be authorized to do the opposite?


I already said that I was discussing the technical implications of such a practice (at least for now).

And one is only authorised to burn what belongs to him.

If you must know, if such a device was implemented, we couldn't be certain anymore that we should be authorised to transform a piece of vital ressource (our planet) without a very long debate on that issue.
Title: P2P might become illegal.
Post by: M51DPS on 18 July 2003, 06:21
It was never specified how the matter duplicater actually works. Perhaps it changes the hydrogen fuel into whatever it's duplicating. I prefer the explanation that it works by "magic" myself.
Title: P2P might become illegal.
Post by: Laukev7 on 18 July 2003, 06:36
quote:
Originally posted by M51DPS:
It was never specified how the matter duplicater actually works. Perhaps it changes the hydrogen fuel into whatever it's duplicating. I prefer the explanation that it works by "magic" myself.


It CANNOT work by magic. This breaks Lavoisier's law of mass conservation.

http://dbhs.wvusd.k12.ca.us/Equations/Conserv-of-Mass.html (http://dbhs.wvusd.k12.ca.us/Equations/Conserv-of-Mass.html)

There is no other way to duplicate matter than transforming existing matter into something else. And don't give me your rhetoric about transforming energy into matter; it amounts to the same thing I said above. Anything you transform into matter or energy, you have to take it somewhere.

[ July 17, 2003: Message edited by: Laukev7 ]

Title: P2P might become illegal.
Post by: TheKnifeThrower on 18 July 2003, 18:15
quote:
Originally posted by Linux User #5225982375:
Unbeknowest to you all, I have invented a matter-copier that can copy any object using only hydrogen as fuel!  Why just yesterday, ecsyle, while you were out of your house I walked in and copied your Mac.  I'm using it as we speak.  I didn't think you'd mind, since I don't see how it affects you at all.  As a matter of fact I think I'll copy your car and your stereo system next week...  After that I'll use this device to destroy the American capitalist economy by giving away extremely expensive items for free! HA HA HA HA HAHAHAHA!  And nobody can stop me!



Of course it doesn't affect him. He still has all his stuff. But what about the creators of his stuff? Shouldn't they be paid for all the hard work which went into creating the stuff.
Title: P2P might become illegal.
Post by: mobrien_12 on 19 July 2003, 00:12
quote:
Originally posted by ecsyle:951:
who transfers legal stuff with p2p?


BitTorrent's main use was do allow people to download Linux ISO images.
Title: P2P might become illegal.
Post by: xyle_one on 19 July 2003, 00:59
quote:
Originally posted by M. O'Brien:


BitTorrent's main use was do allow people to download Linux ISO images.

oh. i didn't know that.  (http://smile.gif)
Title: P2P might become illegal.
Post by: avello500 on 19 July 2003, 10:57
could you not use hydrogen to convert matter, then converet some into devices to make more hydrogen?
then eventually have enough materials to goto space?
or at least ensure our survival?
we would need to debate on its use for so long that someone who take control and powertrip.
i know i would be do good things myself.
like an island of pastries. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Title: P2P might become illegal.
Post by: Laukev7 on 19 July 2003, 11:32
quote:
Originally posted by avello500:
could you not use hydrogen to convert matter, then converet some into devices to make more hydrogen?
then eventually have enough materials to goto space?
or at least ensure our survival?
we would need to debate on its use for so long that someone who take control and powertrip.
i know i would be do good things myself.
like an island of pastries. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


NO.

First, consider the astronomous amounts of energy which would be required to transform matter -- way more energy than you could  ever produce with hydrogen with any other means short of cold fusion. And those atoms required for the cold fusion (it could be anything else than H2), you have to take them SOMEWHERE.

Second, you can transform any bloody material you want -- rocks, air, water, or hydrogen, which is the easiest to transform due to its atomic structure. Again, you have to take the material to transform SOMEWHERE.  

Just granting islands of pastries to 6 billion people would require transformation of whole planets much bigger than our own, and would consume as much energy as whole stars bigger than our Sun.

Your theory of transforming matter into energy producers is irrelevant. We won't even need to do this if ever we can transform matter, as we will be able to directly transform matter into energy as well.

Believe me, I am a science student. And at one time or another, there won't be enough planets left to transform or combust. So, again, I repeat: IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DUPLICATE MATTER INDEFINITELY, BECAUSE THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF MATTER IS NOT INFINITE.
Title: P2P might become illegal.
Post by: suselinux on 19 July 2003, 14:55
I wonder what would happen if the coopyright holder uploaded something?

Isn't GPL a form of copyright, because it does have some stipulations, its not entirely open ended


Im no anarchist, but so far only two things drive humanity, War and Money, and the differences between the two are quickly disapating.

I don't like that.
Title: P2P might become illegal.
Post by: Lennon on 19 July 2003, 20:29
There is no way they can stop P2P no matter what laws they impose. People will always have a way of transferring data at ever higher speeds over the internet, if nothing, over MSN or Yahoo. They might be able to shut down networks like Kazaa or the ones Gnutella uses, but they will never stop P2P. If nothing else, we will always be able to use BBS  :D  (if anyone still remembers what that means)

So, they're screwed, they better give up. All the money people I mean. Technology is our freedom, and only culture can stop us from downloading pirated software/music/etc. I mean, whoever likes something pirated they downloaded, they usually go and buy the real thing, even if there is not difference, because they want to thank those who made it. Thats what I do anyway.
Title: P2P might become illegal.
Post by: Lennon on 19 July 2003, 20:33
As for the previous "physics chat", energy can be converted into matter very easily. Look up "Schauberger" and "Implosion" online.
Title: P2P might become illegal.
Post by: M51DPS on 19 July 2003, 23:43
Saying that something works by magic is an excellent description. Screw Lavoisier and his stupid "laws of science". Magic can do anything, just ask my unicorn friend.
Title: P2P might become illegal.
Post by: preacher on 20 July 2003, 00:04
There is no way any law like this could pass, it would do nothing. Here is something people seem to forget, the laws that are passed in the US dont mean shit anywhere else. So if p2p was illegal here, then it wouldnt mean a damn thing, just like the linux dvd css thing. People in the US would still share files using p2p. You cant stop people by passing a law.