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Miscellaneous => The Lounge => Topic started by: cahult on 19 October 2004, 21:59

Title: USA - a police state
Post by: cahult on 19 October 2004, 21:59
Maybe you don
Title: USA - a police state
Post by: Laukev7 on 19 October 2004, 17:57
It is very disturbing, indeed, when a country is led by PNAC (http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm) lunatics bent on world domination. Unfortunately, yes, the US has become like the Soviet Union. and may very well collapse (http://www.americanfreepress.net/08_31_03/On_the_Verge/on_the_verge.html) the same way it did in the near future. And as I pointed out in another thread, it has already become fascist as well.

We don't need a dominant country. I think that, on the contrary, a multipolar world would be much more interesting than an unipolar one.

The EU would be a good candidate, if it does not become a world monopoly like the US. Any lone superpower is potentially dangerous.

[ October 19, 2004: Message edited by: Laukev7 / BOB ]

Title: USA - a police state
Post by: WMD on 22 October 2004, 05:25
A few things:
 
quote:
There are police everywhere

As a citizen of the US, I can assure you, that isn't true.  Except for airports and huge events (thousands of people), I don't see any more police than there was before.

 
quote:
people are encouraged to report "suspicious activities",

Doesn't everyone do that?  Besides, it's up to the people what "suspicious" is, in this case.

 
quote:
Everyone speaking out against this is called a traitor or lunatic.

Utterly false.


They're called "kooks."  :D

 
quote:
Ignore USA and let it become more like Ray Bradbury
Title: USA - a police state
Post by: Refalm on 22 October 2004, 12:26
Doesn't all matter anymore in 100 years, when North America and Europe will contain 3rd world countries.

[ October 22, 2004: Message edited by: Refalm / BOB ]

Title: USA - a police state
Post by: Laukev7 on 22 October 2004, 17:22
quote:
They're called "kooks."  


Whatever it is, that's a label designed to shut up and discredit opponents. Anti-intellectualism, like using labels such as 'conspiracy theorist' or 'liberal' as an insult to stifle dissent is a specific characteristic of fascist regimes.

 
quote:
Disclaimer: I no longer support either of the establishment parties.


I'm glad to hear that.  (http://smile.gif)
Title: USA - a police state
Post by: WMD on 23 October 2004, 04:04
quote:
Whatever it is,

I only used that line as a joke, although, that seems to be more widely used now then what cahult suggested.

 
quote:
I'm glad to hear that.  (http://smile.gif)

Yeah I'm sure you are  (http://tongue.gif)   (Badnarik for President)
Title: USA - a police state
Post by: Laukev7 on 23 October 2004, 04:40
quote:
I only used that line as a joke


Yeah, I wanted to make my point.  ;)  

 
quote:
(Badnarik for President)


I've watched him debate with David Cobb on a C-SPAN video (first link, watching the second one right now):

http://www.c-span.org/search/basic.asp?BasicQueryText=cobb+badnarik (http://www.c-span.org/search/basic.asp?BasicQueryText=cobb+badnarik)

I don't completely agree with his policies, but he's a much better choice than the Republicans, especially for economic conservatives. Either he or Nader or Cobb are good choices, as they all want to reverse the current lunacy.
Title: USA - a police state
Post by: WMD on 23 October 2004, 04:50
Yeah I've seen that first one.  The second, I haven't...

 
quote:
he's a much better choice than the Republicans, especially for economic conservatives.

That's how I've always felt.

Speaking of Badnarik, he got a commercial spot on Fox News earlier today.  I was shocked.  :eek:   FNC is pretty damn popular, I hope this helps him if even the slightest bit.
Title: USA - a police state
Post by: Laukev7 on 23 October 2004, 05:37
FOX News? I'm surprised... they're very right-wing, and not in a good way. Why would they want to divide the right wing vote? Badnarik's views are not even close to their agenda, and we all know FOX has an agenda.

And NO, it's not because FOX is 'fair and balanced'. FOX is NOT FAIR, NOR BALANCED.
Title: USA - a police state
Post by: skyman8081 on 23 October 2004, 06:53
Everyone is slanted.

FOX just tilts in a slightly sifferent direction.

Hell, I've seen Pro-Kerry ad's on there.  1st amendment applies to all.  And money is money, whether it be from swiftboat vet's for tru7h, bush, kerry, badnarik.
Title: USA - a police state
Post by: WMD on 23 October 2004, 07:37
Fox wanting to divide the right-wing vote...I'm just as confused as you are.

 
quote:
FOX is NOT FAIR, NOR BALANCED.

We distort, you decide!  :D   I must say though, I watch them all the time.  They have very high programming quality, in terms of it being TV.  I know what I know, though, so I filter it out.  ;)

I'd say the closest thing to a "fair" corporate news channel is MSNBC - run by our favorite company, go figure.  (http://tongue.gif)   Sure, they have Pat Buchanan - but you should hear him now.  He ain't Buchanan '92 any more.
Title: USA - a police state
Post by: skyman8081 on 23 October 2004, 10:38
I watch Fox News, and I lesten to NPR. so I can make up my own damn mind about things.

A lot of republicans claim that most major media has a liberal bias to it.  Of course most sides always make that claim that everyone is against them.  I have seen evidence of major media outlets having bias one way or another.

The question is, were they lying and distorting the truth, or were they lied to and had a distorted truth given to them?
Title: USA - a police state
Post by: Laukev7 on 23 October 2004, 16:51
quote:
The question is, were they lying and distorting the truth, or were they lied to and had a distorted truth given to them?


Outfoxed by MoveOn has shown interviews by former FOX employees that show how they distort information and send memos outlining how the information should be presented. Even if you don't believe that necessarily makes FOX slanted, if that respects the First Amendment, then I'm Adolf Hitler.

I've seen conservative media that's much more 'fair and balanced' than FOX News, thank you very much.
Title: USA - a police state
Post by: Stilly on 23 October 2004, 22:31
quote:
Originally posted by WMD:

(Badnarik for President)


HELL YEAH
(free bumper sticker: http://badnarik.org/supporters/bumpersticker.php (http://badnarik.org/supporters/bumpersticker.php) )

[ October 23, 2004: Message edited by: the stiller ]

Title: USA - a police state
Post by: mobrien_12 on 24 October 2004, 03:03
Economically, the US is not looking healthy.  We are hemorraging jobs to other countries.   Our debt is increasing at a phenomenal rate.  I've lost any hope that we will ever pay it off.
Title: USA - a police state
Post by: bedouin on 24 October 2004, 08:00
I received my absentee ballot a few days ago and voted for Nader.  Unless some very fundamental changes are made the US is headed for disaster, and neither parties seem to be willing to address that.  Then again, the people aren't aware of it themselves, so what do you expect.  The only way this country can salvage itself is through the legitimization of third-party alternatives, and that will never happen unless people start voting for those alternatives instead of whining about how X candidate "will never win."  That's not the point.

Was my vote for Nader a vote for Bush?  Absolutely not, since if it weren't for third-parties I wouldn't vote at all.  Kerry never had my vote in the first place.  Bush didn't start America's plunge, he just accelerated it.  Now, you can die a slow, agonizing death with a the democrats, get it over with in a blazing fury with the republicans, or just vote for the good guy.  And so I did, and my conscious is clear.

The only difference I see between republicans and democrats is that one is direct about screwing you over, and the other more cunning.  Keep in mind that under Clinton:

Not to mention neither candidate is wiling to reconsider their blind support of Israel.  

Years ago the abolitionist party was accused by the whigs of spoiling the election, and allowing the (then pro-slavery) democrats to win.
Title: USA - a police state
Post by: skyman8081 on 24 October 2004, 08:28
bedouin, read my sig.

different candidate, same message.

Of all the candidates on the ballot, I would vote lib. HOWEVER, if it was only between bush and kerry, then I would vote for president bush.  Because, I don't trust Kerry at all, and President Bush has the least amount of douchebaggery behind him, of those two.

If I was one year older(17 currently) I would be voting Badnarik.
Title: USA - a police state
Post by: WMD on 24 October 2004, 21:24
Terrific post, bedouin.  (http://smile.gif)
Title: USA - a police state
Post by: Laukev7 on 24 October 2004, 21:30
quote:
Because, I don't trust Kerry at all, and President Bush has the least amount of douchebaggery behind him, of those two.


At least with Bush, you know when he's lying, because he does it all the time.
Title: USA - a police state
Post by: Orethrius on 24 October 2004, 13:12
quote:
Originally posted by Laukev7 / BOB:


At least with Bush, you know when he's lying, because he does it all the time.



Amen.   :cool:
Title: USA - a police state
Post by: JanusChrist on 24 January 2005, 13:13
I wouldn't go so far as to say America is a police state in the way the USSR or Nazi Germany was. But do I feel it has the potential? Damn right I do!

Positive notes for recent times:

Ashcroft quit
Colin Powell quit
Michael Powell is quitting
Charlie Graner got 10 years for Abu Ghraib
George Bush can't run for re-election again

In a more oppresive society these things wouldn't happen. I appreciate my freedom and if worse comes to worse, I will kill for it and I will die for it. But at the same time, I'm not about to make mountains from mole hills.
Title: USA - a police state
Post by: Refalm on 24 January 2005, 19:10
There still a matter of the number one news channel in the United States that every American believes and loves:

(http://www.cursor.org/venturawatch/oreilly.jpg)

Welcome to 21th century propoganda TV.
Title: USA - a police state
Post by: JanusChrist on 25 January 2005, 02:16
Hey refalm, check this out:

http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=bill_oreilly (http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=bill_oreilly)
Title: USA - a police state
Post by: Orethrius on 25 January 2005, 11:31
Meh, I flip between Fox and CNN, and I manage to sort out the truth between the lies on the right and the rampant douchebaggery on the left.   :D
Title: USA - a police state
Post by: Refalm on 25 January 2005, 12:33
quote:
Originally posted by JanusChrist:
Hey refalm, check this out:

http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=bill_oreilly (http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=bill_oreilly)



I've seen all Maddox pages already, but thanks. I like Maddox, except for his vegetarian, Smashing Pumpkins and 3rd Rock From The Sun (awesome comedy) bashing.
Title: USA - a police state
Post by: Laukev7 on 25 January 2005, 19:00
quote:
Originally posted by JanusChrist:
I wouldn't go so far as to say America is a police state in the way the USSR or Nazi Germany was. But do I feel it has the potential? Damn right I do!

Positive notes for recent times:

Ashcroft quit
Colin Powell quit
Michael Powell is quitting
Charlie Graner got 10 years for Abu Ghraib
George Bush can't run for re-election again

In a more oppresive society these things wouldn't happen. I appreciate my freedom and if worse comes to worse, I will kill for it and I will die for it. But at the same time, I'm not about to make mountains from mole hills.



Ashcroft has been replaced by Alberto Gonzalez, who drafted the framework for Guantanamo, and is just as extremist in many respects.

The fact that Colin Powell had to resign is actually something to worry about, since he was one of the only moderates in the Bush administration.

That Michael Powell leaves the FCC doesn't mean anything. Many oppressive regimes switch people around once in a while to give an illusion of accountability. They are usually replaced with other people who arre considered more loyal.

Charlie Graner getting 10 years for Abu Ghraib is nothing but a facade. The real culprits are Donald Rumsfeld and Alberto Gonzalez, possibly with the permission of the president himself, as the memos from the ACLU have revealed.

As for George Bush, he has already violated constitutional laws by declaring an illegal war to Iraq and passing the PATRIOT Act. It is therefore not much of a stretch to expect him to consolidate more power in four years using the war on terrorism as an excuse.

The point is not that the US is like Nazi Germany in 1940, but like Nazi Germany in 1933 at its beginnings. You might want to check out the 14 characteristics of fascism by Lawrence Britt:

http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/britt_23_2.htm (http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/britt_23_2.htm)
Title: USA - a police state
Post by: JanusChrist on 29 January 2005, 13:10
quote:
Originally posted by Refalm / BOB:


I've seen all Maddox pages already, but thanks. I like Maddox, except for his vegetarian, Smashing Pumpkins and 3rd Rock From The Sun (awesome comedy) bashing.



No matter who you are, Maddox will offend everyone on at least one point.
Title: USA - a police state
Post by: cahult on 30 January 2005, 00:55
"I am not a crook"!

Anyone remember who said that and what party he represented?
Title: USA - a police state
Post by: Refalm on 30 January 2005, 01:04
quote:
Originally posted by cahult:
"I am not a crook"!

Anyone remember who said that and what party he represented?



Nixon, Republican Party.