Stop Microsoft
Miscellaneous => The Lounge => Topic started by: Pissed_Macman on 25 May 2003, 08:59
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EDIT: There, no one can see the article anymore! The French are fine for crying out loud!
[ June 06, 2003: Message edited by: Macman: HAS 1000 POSTS ]
edit: i don't agree with censorship, for reference, the original post said:
quote:
Originally posted by Macman: HAS 1000 POSTS:
http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=6909 (http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=6909)
hahaha serves em right!
[ June 09, 2003: Message edited by: Calum ]
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How does it serve them right?
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I hate Republican
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quote:
Originally posted by fett101:
How does it serve them right?
HERE HERE
MES is about free speech and the fight AGAINST repression
what are you about Mac man?
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quote:
Originally posted by Refalm:
I hate Republican
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My government sucks. They're now filled with stupid Conservatives and Liberals. We also have a prime minister who looks like Harry Potter, and is just as a spoiled brat as him.
A month ago, Neo-Nazi's had permission to hold a march, but when Anarchists (like me) requested to hold a march against facism, it was refused.
So, my government is perfectly okay with people who are worse that UnixSucks.com (a member who repeatedly said that Niggers are evil), but my government is not okay with an political movement that comes close to socialism. Fuck the government, and esspecialy fuck that stupid bitch called our queen (you can actually get arrested here when you edit a photo of the queen and hang it on your window).
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Ridiculous.
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It's ok to dislike another country, but Americans are acting like morons! Freedom fries, wasting perfectly good b00ze, holding long lasting grudges because someone disagrees with an INSIGNIFICANT war? It's called being a pussy! Are Americans pussies? I thought they were tough mofo's!
I only hate the American government, the people are to be excused, but sometimes I have trouble with this. Sometimes the American people really do give themselves a bad name(as opposed to the government). But at the same time, no matter what the people are up to, there is many Americans that are good people who realize what is wrong with their country.
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quote:
Originally posted by lazygamer:
It's ok to dislike another country, but Americans are acting like morons! Freedom fries, wasting perfectly good b00ze, holding long lasting grudges because someone disagrees with an INSIGNIFICANT war? It's called being a pussy! Are Americans pussies? I thought they were tough mofo's!
I only hate the American government, the people are to be excused, but sometimes I have trouble with this. Sometimes the American people really do give themselves a bad name(as opposed to the government). But at the same time, no matter what the people are up to, there is many Americans that are good people who realize what is wrong with their country.
This is what people don't get about us canadians
we don't hate American people we just hate their government.
besides its not like the people voted this government in anyway.
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if you guys think it's bad on the outside... imagine the shit we have to put up with as citizens. being an american means that you have two keepers... Washington, and Corporate America.
Bush really is a poor president... if it weren't for Powell and Rumsfeld, this whole "war on terror" would consist of monkey boy George lobbing nukes at everybody who doesn't bow down to us and our every decision.
Americans are also the most ignorant people in the world. I'd definitely consider myself to be pretty damn open minded, well educated, and... well... most unlike the sheep. Then I see all the folks from Europe, or Austrailia... or... anywhere... and I realize that I've still got a long way to go.
I hope the republicans and the democrats both choke on fried chicken bones. our government is a joke with it's "two party system"... but then, I think everyone's government is a joke these days. business has its hand in everything nowadays... it's getting hard for people to even live without having to deal with bullshit at least five times a day.
Hey, to all the Englishmen... mind if I come hide out over there? This place is a motherfucking joke.
As for disallowing the French to come to E3... can someone explain to me... WHY?!? I don't think that every Frenchman came together and decided that they, as a collective nation would give us the finger. Why this then? Let's all act like grownups here and get along.
Bickering little kids
[ May 25, 2003: Message edited by: Jimmy James: Mac Commando ]
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This is pretty fucked up right here.
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quote:
Reporters Without Borders today protested against the detention of six French journalists on arrival a week ago at Los Angeles international airport to cover a video games trade show and their forcible repatriation after being held at the airport for more than 24 hours.
"These journalists were treated like criminals - subjected to several body searches, handcuffed, locked up and fingerprinted," Reporters Without Borders secretary-general Robert M
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The whole anti-French thing is dumb, I agree, but it is a lot of fun to make fun of them and call french fries freedom fries. The worst part of this whole thing is that a lot of French restaurants have gone out of business. What people don't think about though, is that those are Americans they are putting out of business.
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Do you know what the worst thing of all this is? That some people are willing to hold a grudge for weeks and months just because a government didn
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Blair was wrong. UK's song was really shit. The only song that was good, came from Belgium. Oh, and the one from Russia kicked arse (http://tongue.gif)
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quote:
Originally posted by Refalm:
I hate Republican
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quote:
Originally posted by Faust:
This is pretty fucked up right here.
Hehehehe, You live near howard, haha
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ok...ill admit it...im american BUT I DONT WANT TO BE
now, most of ever, im ashamed to live here...and i cant move yet. im not 18...stupid laws.
i have ideas about a government that would actually work...too lazy to type. i must say that about the Neo-Nazi march (see above)...i dont understand why anarchists cant march against it. you have a voice too. i would like to be an anarchist, but in an ideal world, it would never work; especially in a large country. libertarian ideas are good except for that there are no laws protecting people from rape and murder. if there is a goverment that can place laws against rape and murder, and is still libertaian, then it can work out.
i think that the whole freedom fries thing is the stupidest thing that ive ever heard. next thing will be freedom vanilla and freedom kisses. GROW UP AMERIKER.
and they wont choke on chicken bones, theyll choke on pretzle ;) stupid bush and his pretzle, it shoulda killed him
REPRESS THE REPUBLICANS
when im 18, ill meet you in canada...2 years...cant wait
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What I wonder is, does Canada have almost as bad a government system as the US, and the people just don't realize it?
[ May 27, 2003: Message edited by: lazygamer ]
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I don't like the american government (or should I say planet vampires?) at all. I'm ashamed of it and would rather be refered to as simply being a member of the human species, governments are silly to begin with.
quote:
The main difference between the Republicans and Democrats is the speed with which their knees hit the floor when the corporations come knocking.
--Ralph Nader, Green Party
[ May 27, 2003: Message edited by: M51DPS ]
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One thing I think we can learn from all this: humans are scum that cannot be governed because we infest and corrupt every part of our own society.
I hate politicians and I hate people for believing what they say over and over again. None of the politicians want to make things better, they just want to hold the job for the next poor sap that gets elected. In most US states its perfectly legal to drink yourself into a stupor and hurt yourself and the ones around you, but can you smoke weed? nope. Teenagers can have ten kids before they're twenty if they want, and abandoning and destroying their lives (creating a cycle which will also destroy the next generation) is perfectly within the law. But can you park a rusty old car on your front lawn? nope. If you're a woman you can marry a man and then divorce him for no reason and he'll have to hand over half of what he earns to you for the rest of your life. What stupid, idiotic creatures we are.
(btw this thread was started as a joke, I don't hate the French)
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All of you: Do you know what I hate? I hate political discussion on FuckMicrosoft.com. I disagree with anti-americanism. I think Bush isn't a bad President, I think our government is very good, and I love living here. That's all I'm gonna say and please no one flame me for having my opinions. I don't think political discussions have place here because they SEPERATE US. I have no negative views against France, Canada, Germany, Netherlands or any of the countries people on FMS are from. Why can't we get down to it and put our beliefs in government aside. I do believe whatever happened to the French journalists shouldn't have happened but this topic is off topic.
I absolutely love my country very dearly. When I hear someone saying they hate my country--not dislike, *hate*--it scares me. It makes me not want to comment here anymore because I don't want to get into political discussions. If we are going to seperate ourselves, than please, I say please, let's seperate ourselves based on what distro we use, what desktop environment we use, what editor we use, what platform we like, or the reasons we hate Microsoft. I would never condemn political discussions anywhere, because I believe in the right of free speech which my country started, but I strongly ask you not to. I don't want to fight over different views.
I'm not a Christian, but if I was, it would scare me if someone was sitting next to me saying:
"I *hate* Christians, their beliefs are wrong and they should be more like the Jews or Buddhists"
edit: took out some implying stabs that would cause flame, srry about that
[ June 01, 2003: Message edited by: Solo ]
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Well hate your country is not true, the country is the people, not the government, and it's not just limited to Bush either. Hate is a strong word indeed, but dislike just seems too weak, they really piss me off... and not just because of that Iraqi war either.
Pro/anti Americanism is one of those issues where people on both sides of the fence look at those on the otherside, and wonder what the hell is wrong with them.
Although in the end I have put my differences aside, because your nationality and beliefs will make no difference towards what I think of you. In MES it's actions and knowledge that makes the person, as beliefs and knowledge are seperate.
It's just that the lounge is the garbage dump, and wierd, offensive, stuff happens. Let concern only be raised when the garbage overflows into non-garbage dump threads... often.
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hmm...this will take awhile to sift through all the bullshit you people are posting, but i'll try (whether you want me to or not :-p )
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How does it serve them right?
cause the french public and government are pussies. not litterally, figuritively and extremely bias with resentment towards the french.
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You US people should really start to vote Green, Socialistic or Libertarian.
it's bad enough as it is...we don't need to compound the problems by introducing politians with even less common sence. if any of the 3 you mentioned run the government, human society will be in for a lot of trouble. let us pray they don't.
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Try living beside 'em
if i wan't an american, i would definatly want to live next to america. i can't imagine living anywhere else. you people suck (for example, the one here who can't modify a picture of your queen...you need to get your rights back of something...you're screwed)
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A month ago, Neo-Nazi's had permission to hold a march, but when Anarchists (like me) requested to hold a march against facism, it was refused.
that's fucked up
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It's ok to dislike another country, but Americans are acting like morons!
who? dach-hole? gebhart? clinton (the bastard or the bitch?) ?
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there is many Americans that are good people who realize what is wrong with their country.
yup...too many people in our government are like you people: ignorant
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besides its not like the people voted this government in anyway.
HAHA
i'm sorry, i just find this hilarious. you people really are ignorant
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if you guys think it's bad on the outside... imagine the shit we have to put up with as citizens. being an american means that you have two keepers... Washington, and Corporate America.
i'm sorry...can you explain a little further? i'm not quite getting the connection to my life here... my life has very little direct connection with washington and of course i know of Corporate America...do you want to go back to they days where you were fully self-sustained? no specialization? i don't. i like Corporate America. some of the rules/laws are stupid, and the government doesn't seem to want to do anything about it, but eh. who cares. if you are smart, you can work around it, and if not, you dissearve what you get.
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Bush really is a poor president... if it weren't for Powell and Rumsfeld, this whole "war on terror" would consist of monkey boy George lobbing nukes at everybody who doesn't bow down to us and our every decision.
give me evidence of him being a poor president. as far as i know, we haven't shot any nukes, nor are we planning to do so. you're full of shit (besides, even demo-rats know of the consequences of launching nukes. no politician is stupid enough to do that in the US--not even Al bore)
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Americans are also the most ignorant people in the world. I'd definitely consider myself to be pretty damn open minded, well educated, and... well... most unlike the sheep. Then I see all the folks from Europe, or Austrailia... or... anywhere... and I realize that I've still got a long way to go.
yes, the majority of america is stupid. and this can not be fixed, in our lifetime. i am open-minded too, but not to bullshit. and yes, you DO have a LONG way to go!! good luck
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I hope the republicans and the democrats both choke on fried chicken bones. our government is a joke with it's "two party system"... but then, I think everyone's government is a joke these days. business has its hand in everything nowadays... it's getting hard for people to even live without having to deal with bullshit at least five times a day.
ya, every time i turn on CNN or Fox News, or read articles online, or read a newspaper, or ANY source of informtion available (btw, i can read through CNN bullshit), i see (mostly) morons who don't know what they are talking about, who are trying to convince those of lesser intelligence (no short supply in USA) that they know what they are doing and it's better for all of us.
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Hey, to all the Englishmen... mind if I come hide out over there? This place is a motherfucking joke.
what's the joke? i'm sorry, i'm not seeing it. actually,i'm not sorry.
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As for disallowing the French to come to E3... can someone explain to me... WHY?!? I don't think that every Frenchman came together and decided that they, as a collective nation would give us the finger. Why this then? Let's all act like grownups here and get along.
nah..i'm happy about this. fuck the french. let them pay cause i (and many others) don't like them. :-D
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Bickering little kids
i doubt there are many 10-year-olds who follow the political world
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So Chirac failed to ask: "How high?" when His Bushness told him to jump. Is no one allowed to disagree with His Bushness now? Was questioning the propriety of Bush's war such an overt act of hostility that it justifies this harrassment of any and all French. How did they know that these guys didn't support the war? After all, not everyone in France is in total agreement on this. What's next? Vigilantes going around shooting French poodles?
couldn't hurt
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How quick they are to forget. Those French folks in Paris who were genuinely sorry that the WTC was attacked and destroyed. The French lady who said that "...today, we are all Americans". (Contrast the French reaction to 9-11 to that of the Arabs.) Or that the very same Jacques Chirac who's now so villified was the very first foreign leader to visit "Ground Zero" in NYC?
doesn't excuse him for pissing on us.
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Some days, I am just so FUCKING proud to be an American.
i would have been just as sarcastic 3 years ago when Clinton was still in office. but now, i AM proud to be an american
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And we buy into their lies every time. If it
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I hope you do not mean what you said about France. It would be very sad if you have condemned yourself to hating a whole nation because their government did not to choose to participate in a war with your nation.
I understand some of the things people said in this post riled you, but really are you going to hold the Iraq thing against France forever?
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Oh yes. I love America! The land of the FREE! Where people can FREELY express their opinion, as LONG as the others LIKE it. If they don't then FUCK THEM. FUCK FRANCE, FUCK GERMANY, FUCK GREECE, FUCK EVERYONE.
Oh, and FUCK YOU TOO!
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quote:
Originally posted by Panos:
Oh yes. I love America! The land of the FREE! Where people can FREELY express their opinion, as LONG as the others LIKE it. If they don't then FUCK THEM. FUCK FRANCE, FUCK GERMANY, FUCK GREECE, FUCK EVERYONE.
Oh, and FUCK YOU TOO!
lol. fuck this thread (http://smile.gif)
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Please! Some moderator kill this thread. It's unhealthy. So now we should waste time arguing about who's country is better? YOU PEOPLE BICKER LIKE CHILDREN. If you live in my country and don't like it, leave it. It's one of the human rights given to us. For those of you who are whining because you don't like America, save it for a political forum. I think the worst threat to this forum that could make it end up 'fucked' is political discussion.
I vote for thread kill.
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I created a monster!!
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quote:
Originally posted by Macman: HAS 1000 POSTS:
I created a monster!!
si
yup...i hate it when political threads show up here. it just makes us hate each other. most people here have beliefs drastically different then mine, and i can't stand those ideals not being challanged, so i just keep posting and pissing people off.
i vote BIN this thread
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Siplus you were posting some of the most offensive garbage I have ever seen. You actually admitted that you think killing dogs to teach the French a "lesson" would be a good thing. Think about this. Think long and hard. I'm not even going to comment on the stupidity of the rest of your points because really it speaks for itself. Quite frankly if this thread should be binned then your post is the reason why.
What is wrong with people voicing their concerns about the US governments actions? We have concerns : we are exercising our freedom of speech in voicing them. There is no problem here, unless some people either start ranting instead of talking; or if they get overly upset at others opinions. There are good posts here, and there are troll posts. How about we just ignore the last type?
Solo, there is nothing wrong with your country itself - but some of it's governments actions disturb me and a *lot* of other non Americans (and Americans it seems.) Surely you can see that banning a countries journalists entry into your country because they "dared" to dissent is wrong?
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Oh and I saw a quote a while ago which has some relevance:
quote:
"Participating in flame wars is like running in the special olympics - even if you win you're still retarded."
Note that that was "flame" not "discussion."
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Faust just reinforced my vote: PLEASE BIN!
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Isn't it "arguing on the internet"? Could be both I suppose...
Ok the thing is, just because a thread gets a little messed up, does that mean people gotta run in fear and cry "BIN!". Bin should be for the most pointless threads, like when a random troll starts creating various troll threads.
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Good point. I still haven't had my original question anwered : is there *ANYONE* here who thinks that French journalists should be baned access to America on the basis of their countries choices?
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Oh yeah I haven't seen the news lately have the Americans found those WMD's yet?
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What's WMD?
I've decided that although I want to see if there is any good responses to this thread, I'm starting to see the light about why we shouldn't talk about, let alone argue/debate about, politics at MES. It tears us apart when it gets really heated, and those tears don't heal the moment the thread is over. What would Billy want us to do eh? But it begs the question, how far do we go not debating, just because something is painful to talk about?
I actually had a response to Siplus, but for some strange reason the post just won't post, same with this other response for that computers thread. I can't figure out why. I click the Add reply, and although it acts like it's sending the data and loading, NOTHING happens and it eventually just gives up. Seeing as I've had a change of heart, it does not matter what I have to say, but the computers thread matters! Is there a known bug with post content, that prevents it from being posted? Note: I am copying and posting from wordpad, but that shouldn't make a difference...
[ June 04, 2003: Message edited by: lazygamer ]
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Do any mods even look in here anymore? BIN IT DAMMIT!!!
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quote:
Originally posted by Macman: HAS 1000 POSTS:
http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=6909 (http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=6909)
hahaha serves em right!
that's fucking pathetic, you yanks should be ahsmaed of yourselves.
if i have ever heard a good argument for the bomb, this is it.
and for those of you still wondering, WMD are what Iraq never had, and what the USA are now saying is irrelevant.
odd because originally they said "we can't find any weapons of mass destruction in iraq, so let's tear the place up looking for them" (they should try looking for those weapons in the fucking USA, they'd damn well find them then), but now they seem to be saying "well, we still haven't found them, but who cares, we won, so let's stop looking, we are confident they are around here somewhere anyway".
The logical flaw in this is that if the US really did believe there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq it would be doing it's DAMNEDEST to find them before somebody else does. it's all PR BS.
And i won't be checking this thread again so all you jerkoff warmongering i'm-alright-so-who-cares cunts can just fuck right off before you open your sordid lard filled mouths.
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quote:
Originally posted by Solo:
Please! Some moderator kill this thread. It's unhealthy. So now we should waste time arguing about who's country is better? YOU PEOPLE BICKER LIKE CHILDREN. If you live in my country and don't like it, leave it. It's one of the human rights given to us. For those of you who are whining because you don't like America, save it for a political forum. I think the worst threat to this forum that could make it end up 'fucked' is political discussion.
I vote for thread kill.
i disagree with both of your conclusions and i posit that the only reason americans think the rest of the world hates america is because
a) they are all paranoid due to too much coffee and propaganda
b) the rest of the world does hate america
of course the important thing to note is that the world hates america, not americans. Americans only get hated by the rest of the world in passing because they do not seem to care about changing the fact that the USA is the most immature bully in the world playground. Of course all of this paragraph is lost on most americans, see reason a) for more info about why.
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I mean jeebers they had big pictures of chemical and biological weapons, Colin Powell showed us on big photos. I mean to me I had no idea that they were showing weapons, my untrained civilian eye only saw factories and little blotches which could have been people walking around. But I trusted the American government to tell their own people and the rest of the world the truth. After all it's not like they would lie to justify bombing the hell out of another country is it!
Saddam got it wrong. You can't dictate over a populace his way for long. As Bush shows us all, you first have to make the people *want* to be lied to.
Bah bah, let's all vote away our rights so that we feel all safe. And in twenty years we won't care that the American government will still be treating it's citizens and the world like cattle, because it's not like we care now. And by then it will be "normal" and only a few left wing "radicals" will stand up for rights that most Americans don't even want nor abide by.
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"My country can kick your country's ass." :rolleyes:
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quote:
Originally posted by Siplus: *Capitalist*:
couldn't hurt
Yes it would! I have a poodle!
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Siplus you were posting some of the most offensive garbage I have ever seen. You actually admitted that you think killing dogs to teach the French a "lesson" would be a good thing.
ever hear of "sarcasm" ?? it wouldn't hurt to take everything so serious ya moron. ya, like i'm going to go out and kill as many poodles as i can. THINK about that for a second
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I'm not even going to comment on the stupidity of the rest of your points because really it speaks for itself.
wow. by ur standards i must be stupid cause i don't see stupidity in what i stated.
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Quite frankly if this thread should be binned then your post is the reason why.
don't single me out. many people here have posted nonsence. oh, and i enjoy being offensive :-D
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What is wrong with people voicing their concerns about the US governments actions?
there is nothing wrong with voicing your opinion. it's lying that i don't like. we suffered through 8 year's of Clinton's bullshit lies, that resemble yours a lot. (didn't follow his entire presentcy, however, because i was in elementary school when he took office)
quote:
Oh and I saw a quote a while ago which has some relevance:
quote:
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"Participating in flame wars is like running in the special olympics - even if you win you're still retarded."
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Note that that was "flame" not "discussion."
look here: http://www.geocities.com/siplus01/pictures/arg.html (http://www.geocities.com/siplus01/pictures/arg.html)
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Surely you can see that banning a countries journalists entry into your country because they "dared" to dissent is wrong?
ya, we shouldn't ban them, but it's funny.
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it's only funny if your brain cells are so few that when they meet they are surprised to see each other.
<sarcasm>
and your picture really convinces me you are right. oh yes. i am very impressed by your superior yankee reasoning. i can't think of anything to counter your well thought out points.
</sarcasm>
[ June 04, 2003: Message edited by: Calum ]
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Having travelled through LAX MANY times, I can confirm that the INS are a bunch of petty c**ts, mostly. I can't determine if these French guys received anything out of the ordinary because they were French or not. It is typical that if you try to enter the USA without a valid visa, it's going to be tough on you. The other problem is that it can be arbitrary, some of these guys in immigration are c**ts and will try and dick you around even when you do have valid visas. I don't think it serves them right but if they didn't have valid visas, could well be that no entry to the US is allowed and back you go on the next available flight and you are detained until then, regardless of nationality. I assure you, these were not the only guys refused entry to the USA at LAX that day.
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quote:
Originally posted by HibbeeBoy:
Having travelled through LAX MANY times, I can confirm that the INS are a bunch of petty c**ts, mostly. I can't determine if these French guys received anything out of the ordinary because they were French or not. It is typical that if you try to enter the USA without a valid visa, it's going to be tough on you. The other problem is that it can be arbitrary, some of these guys in immigration are c**ts and will try and dick you around even when you do have valid visas. I don't think it serves them right but if they didn't have valid visas, could well be that no entry to the US is allowed and back you go on the next available flight and you are detained until then, regardless of nationality. I assure you, these were not the only guys refused entry to the USA at LAX that day.
Yeh when I was in the US the people at the airport were real bastards but i suppose it wasn't too far on from September 11th. Well, the people at Chicago were pricks but at Detroit they were cool. Even when the woman had to search my bag because they saw a... comb! she was cool about it.
Still though I think their nationality will have played a part, all of the anti-french feeling that is being stirred up.
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quote:
Originally posted by Tux:
Yeh when I was in the US the people at the airport were real bastards but i suppose it wasn't too far on from September 11th. Well, the people at Chicago were pricks but at Detroit they were cool. Even when the woman had to search my bag because they saw a... comb! she was cool about it.
Still though I think their nationality will have played a part, all of the anti-french feeling that is being stirred up.
I wouldn't read too much into the anti French sentiment. In general, it's mostly confined to media hype and attention seeking whores pulling crazy stunts like pouring wine down the sink or "freedom fries" bullshit or stupid talk radio tossers.
I came through US immigration in Toronto airport a few years ago and the INS guy there was a c**t. I nearly let fly at him but I knew I would come worse off out of any verbal exchange. It was down to the way my wife had filled out the customs form. I was fizzing mad and opted for a couple of Labatts. They're not all bad but when you get a c**t with a chip on his/her shoulder, lookout !
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OK fine DONT bin the thread. I don't care.
Calum: you are a troll. I used to think you were the most respectable person here but that was uncalled for. I thought you would have more respect for others opinions YOU SACK OF MAGGOT-INFESTED IGNORANT SHIT. Note that was in response to your direct words against me and my beliefs in government you FUCKING PRICK.
I AM NOT SAYING I DONT CARE WHAT BUSH DOES. I AM SAYING THAT I DONT WANT TO DISCUSS IT _*HERE*_.
I heard on Fox News the other day (the only one I enjoy watching) that Bush and the administration have been kind of trying to get out of the WMD thing, that there never was WMDs. Ok, that interests me. I don't like Bush and the gang lying, but I still am glad Saddam Hussein is on the way out. Wouldn't you? Or don't you think there is something WRONG about a country with *no* opposition to the leaders whatsoever. Despite what you all are thinking in your heads, don't you dare say it's because "They all agree because Iraq is perfect" because that cannot be true of any country. Some people by _nature_ dislike governments, and the only way to repress that is just that. repression.
In response: I do care very much about the political world. But if you want to talk about politics, let's make a Political forum where killing poodles can be discussed.
I absolutely love talking about technology and discussing Microsoft and Microsoft's weaknesses, but this doesn't fall under anything that this site is about. Can we theme things a bit more and leave apples to apple trees and political messages to political forums?
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WMD=Weapons of Mass Destruction, that makes sense now. Why did I miss that? (http://smile.gif)
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quote:
Originally posted by Solo:
[QB]OK fine DONT bin the thread. I don't care.
Calum: you are a troll.
no. i am not a troll. i post rarely on these forums because they are full of shit. that's the total opposite of a troll. i post useful and helpful (hopefully) articles and comments in other forums and news sites. that is the opposite of a troll. You however have proved beyond any doubt in my mind that you are a fuckass, and possibly a dipshit too, if you can't stop yourself from resorting to empty insults. at least my insults have meaning. quote:
I used to think you were the most respectable person here but that was uncalled for. I thought you would have more respect for others opinions YOU SACK OF MAGGOT-INFESTED IGNORANT SHIT.
yes right, i can see you lead by example. If you want to take my comments personally then go for it. Note however that like any and all of my posts, the only reason you might want to take my comments personally is if you have a guilty conscience. now if anybody else is feeling any animosity towards me i urge you to get off your fat asses and do something about your guilty consciences instead of posting shitty insults all over the forums. quote:
Note that was in response to your direct words against me and my beliefs in government you FUCKING PRICK.
oh yes right. whatever. again i point out that if you took it personally, it's your problem. i shan't resort to any pointless insults today i don't think.
quote:
I AM NOT SAYING I DONT CARE WHAT BUSH DOES.
do i care? even if you put it in capitals? no. what you say is not always the same as what you do. If white america realised how far the wool has been pulled over its eyes it would be doing something about it. but since it chooses not to realise that, we have the USA, and the world, that we all have to live with today. quote:
I AM SAYING THAT I DONT WANT TO DISCUSS IT _*HERE*_.
That is quite obviously a lie. You remind me of void main in this respect. it is the only area where i disagree with him. you and he both appear to think it is okay to mouth of your bigoted political opinions and then in the same breath insult anyone else for raising their opinions, bigoted or not, by saying you don't like talking about politics in the forums.
I have only this to say to you and your ilk:
if you don't want to talk politics, then SHUT THE FUCK UP
Feel free to take this personally, although that's not how it was intended. the only person's time you will be wasting will be your own.
I said i wouldn't be reading this thread and i have let myself and everyone else down by reneging on that promise. i will try not to let it happen again.
PS: I have nothing against free speech on the internet. in fact i champion it. I would like to know what you think a site called fuckmicrosoft.com would be like if there were no politics allowed. I think censorship is evil, and so should anybody with any sense at all. The thing that pisses me off most is simply that of all the people who have said they do not want to talk about politics in here, every single one of them has talked about politics at length themselves. hypocrisy is another thing i am not too keen on on the whole...
[ June 05, 2003: Message edited by: Calum ]
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All you antiAmericans out there. Move out of the U.S. I don't want you here, you don't want you here. So just move. If you move to mexico you don't even have to become poor, in Mexico you would be rich. Move to the freedom taking countries. Where freedom of speech is not true, and no probable cause is needed for an arrest. Go to a place where you will not have a quick and speedy trial. Go to a place where they have stupid laws to hide the country's bad past (In germany Swastikas are illegal, In America I can still wear a cowboy outfit if I wish). Go to a country where there is no separation of church and state. Go to a country where you cannot have old cars because they do not meet smog regulations. Move to a country..... well, I think I've made my point.
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as usual, you americans miss the whole point.
as you may or may not know i am not in the USA, and have never been there. it is entirely possible that the land of the brave and home of the free will never grant me access purely because of the fact that i exercise my right to free speech.
Tell you what, if america is so big on free speech, how come every fucking american in this thread is telling people to get out of their country? do you really think you'd have a better time if only people exactly like little george bush clones lived in your illegally hijacked (from the native americans, in case you're wondering) land? if you are so in favour of taking in the tired and the hungry and standing up for human rights and all that i suggest you stop mouthing off your "put up or shut up" totalitarian opinions all over the place. i know you've all become very complacent recently but sooner or later somebody important will realise the double standards behind your empty bullshit.
edit: i really don't know why i bother. i can be as eloquent as i like, but i know from bitter experience that if an american wants to (as many appear to do) all he (yes those who argue with me are always male) needs to do is ignore what i am saying and put my words down as "anti-american commie". I don't know how americans do this, they blindly respond, sometimes with whole essays of diatribe, without even reading, much less understanding, the substance of the other person's points of view. Maybe this is why americans put such a low value on free speech, they assume that nobody would listen to each other anyway.
edit: christ i know i am shooting myself in the foot here but: quote:
Go to a place where you will not have a quick and speedy trial.
how does a speedy trial have anything to do with freedom and justice? a speedy trial usually means the court cannot be bothered to hear the facts, and often means that stereotypes and prejudices, rather than the real facts, will decide the case. I for one prefer to live in a country where the death penalty has been abolished for being too barbaric, and where people do not put their trust in the ability of their firearms to kill and maim each other.
edit: quote:
In America I can still wear a cowboy outfit if I wish
irrelevant but true: not in California you can't, in California it is illegal to wear cowboy boots unless you own at least two cows.
[ June 05, 2003: Message edited by: Calum ]
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quote:
Originally posted by Billy Gates: Mac Comrade Captain:
Move to the freedom taking countries. Where freedom of speech is not true, and no probable cause is needed for an arrest. Go to a place where you will not have a quick and speedy trial. Go to a place where they have stupid laws to hide the country's bad past (In germany Swastikas are illegal, In America I can still wear a cowboy outfit if I wish). Go to a country where there is no separation of church and state.
Huzzah! to do all that, I wouldn't have to move at all! (http://smile.gif)
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quoting jeffberg: Mac Comrade Captain :
*Move to the freedom taking countries. Where freedom of speech is not true, and no probable cause is needed for an arrest. Go to a place where you will not have a quick and speedy trial. Go to a place where they have stupid laws to hide the country's bad past (In germany Swastikas are illegal, In America I can still wear a cowboy outfit if I wish). Go to a country where there is no separation of church and state. Go to a country where you cannot have old cars because they do not meet smog regulations. Move to a country..... well, I think I've made my point.*
Welcome to Russia then.
In Russia I can wear a cowboy outfit too, but I'll look like an idiot. I can wear a KGB uniform - the reaction would be the same anyways.
Sure, all other countries are anti-democratic. You know, we have a joke left from old USSR slogans - it sounds like "Soviet trains are the trainest trains of all other trains". Now change the word "Soviet" on "US" and "train" on "democracy" - reminds of anything?
You don't like anti-americanism (or how it's called)? And what if I tell you I am damn pissed off by US gvrmnt acting on Chechnya "problem", huh? your government didn't admit the Chechnya terrorists to be terrorists before 9.11. and that happened when you needed Russian support in the war against international terrorism. You guys got used to a simple formula - "When an American is killed - it's a crime, when a Russian is killed - it's a fight for independence". And who supplied Afghanistan terrorists with Stingers and other weaponry to fight USSR? Me? And now they're using these AA missiles (or rockets? correct me if I'm wrong) against you. What an irony. hehe.
And you still think your country is the best?
PS By the way, does the US of A want ME in My country? (http://smile.gif)
PPS And I can't move out of the US - I don't live there. hehe
PPPS phew... I don't usually write such long posts (http://smile.gif)
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quote:
Originally posted by Billy Gates: Mac Comrade Captain:
All you antiAmericans out there. Move out of the U.S. I don't want you here, you don't want you here. So just move. If you move to mexico you don't even have to become poor, in Mexico you would be rich. Move to the freedom taking countries. Where freedom of speech is not true, and no probable cause is needed for an arrest. Go to a place where you will not have a quick and speedy trial. Go to a place where they have stupid laws to hide the country's bad past (In germany Swastikas are illegal, In America I can still wear a cowboy outfit if I wish). Go to a country where there is no separation of church and state. Go to a country where you cannot have old cars because they do not meet smog regulations. Move to a country..... well, I think I've made my point.
You are having a laugh mate. :confused:
The entire American political system has to be the most corrupt organization (american spelling) on the planet ruled by big business. And while fuckwits like you continue to support that system and believe in that system, well, it's just what you deserve.
And another thing, there is no US English, it's just fucking English. Organisation !!!
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Can I be a troll as well? Please.. :D You know, one like Calum! (http://tongue.gif)
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(http://home.midsouth.rr.com/fett101/troll.gif)
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hmm..i didn't finish my post last time--my programming period was ending so i had to just post what i had. whether you want me to or not, i'm going to continue my "offensive" posts here.
[i'm having problems posting my reply, i will try tonight when i have cablemodem connection access]
[ June 05, 2003: Message edited by: Siplus: *Capitalist* ]
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quote:
as you may or may not know i am not in the USA, and have never been there. it is entirely possible that the land of the brave and home of the free will never grant me access purely because of the fact that i exercise my right to free speech.
Calum: we aren't talking about you. Stay in the game.
Oh and I don't care if you give your political opinions or not, and I am not a biggot. I am just trying to show any who think that their view is the common view that they are wrong and that others believe strongly in the U.S. All I am asking is that we no longer discuss politics at Fuckmicrosoft.com, because it is off-topic.
As for the free speech thing, *get* *real*. In America you can say Whatever The _Fuck_ you want. If you hate our government, go out and tell everyone, send emails and mails to your congress.
go to the police station and say it. They will be like, "Okay... And you're telling us this why?"
How about this. Would it be hard for the webmaster to add another forum for political discussions, so that when we all figure, hey I'm bored let's go flame in the political forum, we just have to click one link?
Calum, is it possible for you to be wrong? That my government is *not* that bad, or if it is, I don't mind it because I know if it gets bad enough it can be changed? Is it okay for you people to leave us alone and if you have complaints with our government making attacks on other countries to contact your government representative and tell him not to support us? Is it possible that we can drop this all from FMS and talk about getting rid of Microsoft instead of about whether Bush sucks or not?
If these forums are as fucked as you call them Calum, then is it possible to help unfuck them up by all of us just stopping? Is it possible that if you, one of the most persuasive and respected people here (in mine and many other opinions) could help to unfuck it by not calling people with other ideas names?
The only reason I called you names is to just show you how uncalled for, stupid, and troll-like it was. Trolls don't just mean that they are here a lot, it's that they post troll comments, comments that are just intended to create flames and make people angry. I have tried to be as fair and biased on this site as possible up to now but I think I'm just gonna leave if it's pointless to be here. Maybe the webmaster should just stop the forums if they are so fucked. I'm going to register on void-main's forums right now. Because somehow I don't think my words will be taken seriously, but instead twisted.
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stupid fucking people. First of all, do not talk shit about Calum. He is one of the few members here who actually posts valid, um, posts. And for anti-american views. I do not care. I am an american, but i am not going to tell you to 'git out my damn darn here landz. Most of the time I agree with Calums views on Americans, because, sadly, he is usually correct. It seems this country is overrun with arrogant, selfish morons, and alot of them have stepped on his toes. I have not read this entire thread, only peices here and there, so i will stop typing...
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quote:
I actually had a response to Siplus, but for some strange reason the post just won't post, same with this other response for that computers thread. I can't figure out why. I click the Add reply, and although it acts like it's sending the data and loading, NOTHING happens and it eventually just gives up. Seeing as I've had a change of heart, it does not matter what I have to say, but the computers thread matters! Is there a known bug with post content, that prevents it from being posted? Note: I am copying and posting from wordpad, but that shouldn't make a difference...
ya, i get the same thing. are you using Mozilla? i get a "document contains no data"
quote:
that's fucking pathetic, you yanks should be ahsmaed of yourselves.
why should i be ashamed? i hate the french. i find this amusing
quote:
and for those of you still wondering, WMD are what Iraq never had, and what the USA are now saying is irrelevant
are you so sure there are no WMD in iraq? give the US time to see for sure. they have already found the 'mobile weapons labs' that they claimed iraq had
quote:
odd because originally they said "we can't find any weapons of mass destruction in iraq, so let's tear the place up looking for them" (they should try looking for those weapons in the fucking USA, they'd damn well find them then), but now they seem to be saying "well, we still haven't found them, but who cares, we won, so let's stop looking, we are confident they are around here somewhere anyway".
funny...i don't remember them saying they are going to tear up iraq. they removed sadam and his loyalists, freed the nation from tyranny (temporarily, cause i'm sure they will allow another dictator to take saddam's place eventually), and are trying to setup a new government (which is taking FOREVER). oh, and yes, we do have WMD in USA, they are called atomic bombs. it is legal for us to have them because we don't have the entire world trying to get us to prove we have distroyed all of them. i also never heard the second quote--where do you keep getting these from? i sure hope your not missquoting. that would be lying. i also find this amusing: you people (liberals, french, most of western Europe) kept saying 'give the inspections more time, give sadam more time, just give more time damnit.' yet now, with only a few months, you are being WORCE then we were before this 'war'. you want it NOW, and only NOW. hypocrits. we waited for a LONG time before we went in, perhaps you could show the same pacience?
quote:
of course the important thing to note is that the world hates america, not americans.
that statement makes no sence. Americans make up America, so if you hate one, you have the other. are you practicing your doublethink perhaps?
quote:
Americans only get hated by the rest of the world in passing because they do not seem to care about changing the fact that the USA is the most immature bully in the world playground.
first, give me an example of our immaturity! if we find a problem we can fix, we don't bitch about it for the next 4 decades, we FIX the problem!! NO, i DO NOT want to us to change our ways. if the rest of the world is too spineless to fix their own problems, then thank god we are here to fix them for you.
oh, and i hate coffee
quote:
Bah bah, let's all vote away our rights so that we feel all safe. And in twenty years we won't care that the American government will still be treating it's citizens and the world like cattle, because it's not like we care now. And by then it will be "normal" and only a few left wing "radicals" will stand up for rights that most Americans don't even want nor abide by.
i'm astonished. as far as i can see, it is the liberals (or, lefties, if you so disire) trying to take our rights away. such as the gun issue: demorats want to remove our right to own a gun that is given to us in our 2ed amendment. Right-wingers are trying to assure us of our rights, and that is why i think of my self as conservative and NOT liberal: because i value freedom
quote:
it's only funny if your brain cells are so few that when they meet they are surprised to see each other.
ha. ha. that was funny :rolleyes:
quote:
<sarcasm>
and your picture really convinces me you are right. oh yes. i am very impressed by your superior yankee reasoning. i can't think of anything to counter your well thought out points.
</sarcasm>
that picture was not trying to convince you of anything. was i saying anything that you would convinced of anything with? no, you're just a dumbass. i posted that b/c i remembered that picture when someone mentioned that quote. nothing more.
quote:
no. i am not a troll.
hmm..you are posting bullshit. trolls post bullshit. let's put 2 and 2 together now...
quote:
yes right, i can see you lead by example.
yes, he WAS trying to be respectable at first, but then our continued ramblings pissed him off. solo: i'm sorry for adding fuel to their flaming and continuing this pointless debate
quote:
That is quite obviously a lie.
how is that a lie?
quote:
You remind me of void main in this respect.
ya, you're right, he does.
quote:
if you don't want to talk politics, then SHUT THE FUCK UP
there is a difference between debating politics and posting bullshit. most of these "political" thread here are the latter.
quote:
I think censorship is evil, and so should anybody with any sense at all.
so you think that exposing 3-year-old children to porn, violent movies, foul language, and immoral people is not wrong? you have problems...censorship is not evil, but there are degrees of censorship that should never come into existence.
quote:
The thing that pisses me off most is simply that of all the people who have said they do not want to talk about politics in here, every single one of them has talked about politics at length themselves. hypocrisy is another thing i am not too keen on on the whole...
yup, i don't want to talk about politics here, but i CAN NOT LET your bullshit go unchallenged. i CAN NOT STAND reading what you people post, and i must do all that i can to stop it. staying silent will not help. i admit that what i'm doing isn't either, but it is better then remaining silent.
quote:
Tell you what, if america is so big on free speech, how come every fucking american in this thread is telling people to get out of their country?
because we don't like them. we don't want them here, they don't want to be here, so we are merely suggesting something that will make both of us happy. we are not goign to force them to leave. we are not goign to show upto their homes with guns and forfully kick them out of america. we are suggesting and hoping they will agree to it. it would still be their choice.
quote:
edit: christ i know i am shooting myself in the foot here but:
quote:Go to a place where you will not have a quick and speedy trial.
how does a speedy trial have anything to do with freedom and justice? a speedy trial usually means the court cannot be bothered to hear the facts, and often means that stereotypes and prejudices, rather than the real facts, will decide the case. I for one prefer to live in a country where the death penalty has been abolished for being too barbaric, and where people do not put their trust in the ability of their firearms to kill and maim each other.
hmm...where do i begin? a speedy trial: meaning that we will not have to rott in jail for years before we are brought before a judge? is that what you mean? if that is the case, then i want a speedy trial. oh, and the death penilty: i do not want ANY portion of my taxmoney going the expenses of housing, food, clothing, health, or any other aspect of a mass murderer!! why pay for them the rest of their lives? they are not contributing to society being in jail, and we can not trust them IN society, so i think they should leave our world to burn in hell, instead of rotting in jail.
quote:
rrelevant but true: not in California you can't, in California it is illegal to wear cowboy boots unless you own at least two cows.
LOL. haha, that's stupid. but i'm sure that it is NOT enforced. if it is, you can always challenge it in court, and i'm sure that the law would be declared unconstitional
quote:
Sure, all other countries are anti-democratic. You know, we have a joke left from old USSR slogans - it sounds like "Soviet trains are the trainest trains of all other trains". Now change the word "Soviet" on "US" and "train" on "democracy" - reminds of anything?
no. it doesn't. not "all" other countries are undemocratic. that is not true. but we do have third-world countries like iran, sudi arabia, cuba who are all undemocratic.
quote:
You don't like anti-americanism (or how it's called)? And what if I tell you I am damn pissed off by US gvrmnt acting on Chechnya "problem", huh? your government didn't admit the Chechnya terrorists to be terrorists before 9.11. and that happened when you needed Russian support in the war against international terrorism. You guys got used to a simple formula - "When an American is killed - it's a crime, when a Russian is killed - it's a fight for independence". And who supplied Afghanistan terrorists with Stingers and other weaponry to fight USSR? Me? And now they're using these AA missiles (or rockets? correct me if I'm wrong) against you. What an irony. hehe.
And you still think your country is the best?
i like my country better then yours. i'm saying that it IS better then russia, i just like my country better. oh, and we supported afghanistan back then, we just didn't help them rebuild after the war and now they hate us.
quote:
The entire American political system has to be the most corrupt organization (american spelling) on the planet ruled by big business. And while fuckwits like you continue to support that system and believe in that system, well, it's just what you deserve.
there are more corrupt organizations. think of MS, Saddam's former government, cuba, N. Korea, oh, and can't forget the biggest communist state: china
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quote:
i'm astonished. as far as i can see, it is the liberals (or, lefties, if you so disire) trying to take our rights away. such as the gun issue: demorats want to remove our right to own a gun that is given to us in our 2ed amendment. Right-wingers are trying to assure us of our rights, and that is why i think of my self as conservative and NOT liberal: because i value freedom
When it comes to firearms, you Americans are totally on the right track! Well at least some of you are.
About liberals VS conservatives. What does it mean to be a conservative? To me, being a conservative means being some stuck up, middle-aged/old, "moral", unchanging, Christian person. I despise people like this, but maybe alot of conservatives don't fit this description.
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Hey everybody shut up!! This political crap is a waste of time. We're all from a variety of different places, meaning we have a variety of different opinions and since humans are stubborn, ignorant bastards, none of you will every convince each other of anything. And even if you do convince one person of your opinion, what do you really get? American gun-totin' rodeo-ridin' meatheads, shutup and all you foreign hippy likes-to-hold-the-fact-that-our-system-sucks-and-
we're-uneducated-just-because-we-make-you-look-
puny-even-though-Americans-and-Europeans-are-
basically-the-same, SHUTUP!!!!!!! :mad: :mad:
(http://l337images.com/images/picture1.jpg)
EDIT: And Calum, if you'd read through the thread you'd know that I was JOKING when I started this topic, so don't quote things you don't know about.
[ June 06, 2003: Message edited by: Macman: HAS 1000 POSTS ]
edit: Macman, i edited your long hyphenated word because it was ruinging the page scansion. I'd like to point out i haven't edited anything else though since that's what free speech is all about.
[ June 06, 2003: Message edited by: Calum ]
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I notice that a lot of you seem to want to censor this thread. I also noticed that during the bombing of Iraq a lot of you started quoting John Stuart Mill as "proof" of the justice of your actions. Maybe some of you should actually read On Liberty (particularly the parts on censorship.) Especially considering it is one of the most crucial backbone pieces for any liberal democracy.
Siplus what is the similarity between porn and politics please? Don't use bad analogies. Oh btw the problem isn't that we can see kiddy porn - the problem is that there is kiddy porn. Censorship doesn't fix problems, it just sweeps them under the carpet.
To the "don't like it you can leave people." Get a fucking clue. I'm sure that the underclass in America can really afford to move too. How about if during Americas fight for independence from the British the British had said "don't like it? then leave." I'm "so" sure you would listen then.
Or how about the fact that America has now passed Russia in percentage of it's population in prison? Despite this you are still one of the most violent countries in the world. Have a look at the percentage of gun deaths per capita you have in America. In Australia I can own pistols. I can own rifles. I can defend my home, I can shoot animals. But in America if you want to buy a replica M16 go the fuck ahead! Oh and what was it that the Washington sniper used? In Australia we don't get mad snipers with replica M16's because we have the intelligence to tell redneck hicks to shut up when they start talking about rights. After the last violent murder in Australia we banned all guns that could be used for that sort of thing. After a shooting at a Melbourne University we banned non-sporting handguns. Why do you need a glock or an automatic to defend yourself? Shoot a burglar once or twice and he's either dead or not going anywhere. Your home is not a battleground for Gods sake! Oh wait this is America... At the end of the day as an Australian I don't have the freedom to own a gun I don't need. I also don't have the freedom to rape or to murder. Not all freedom is good.
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quote:
All you antiAmericans out there. Move out of the U.S. I don't want you here, you don't want you here. So just move. If you move to mexico you don't even have to become poor, in Mexico you would be rich. Move to the freedom taking countries. Where freedom of speech is not true, and no probable cause is needed for an arrest. Go to a place where you will not have a quick and speedy trial. Go to a place where they have stupid laws to hide the country's bad past (In germany Swastikas are illegal, In America I can still wear a cowboy outfit if I wish). Go to a country where there is no separation of church and state. Go to a country where you cannot have old cars because they do not meet smog regulations. Move to a country..... well, I think I've made my point.
Wow I think you just passed Siplus in stupidity.
Move to the freedom taking countries...
Like the US. The highest percentage of it's population in prison.
Where freedom of speech is not true
Like the US. How many of you want to censor this thread?
and no probable cause is needed for an arrest.
Like the US. It's the "homeland defense bill"
Go to a place where you will not have a quick and speedy trial.
Ha ha ha! Do you have any idea how backed up your courts are? The latest attempt to try and speed up death penalty cases was to ban appeals. 1 in 8 death penalty victims are later found innocent and you want to ban appeals? Stupid.
Go to a place where they have stupid laws to hide the country's bad past (In germany Swastikas are illegal
America doesnt need laws it just needs right wing "holocaust deniers." And your comments about Germany are offensive. They banned the swastika so that the neo nazis could not use it. Do you have any idea how many museums Germany has dedicated to remembering the holocaust? How many shrines to the dead cover Auschwitz? Entire concentration camps have been left standing so that the German people could never forget and would never repeat their actions. Did you have any idea that in Germany it is illegal to deny the holocaust? Hiding the past huh? How many Amricans care that you tried your own genocide wit h the native Americans? At least in Australia the government is still under pressure to formally apologize to our native population. At least some of us still care.
Go to a country where there is no separation of church and state.
This just gets better. Seperation of Church and State? In AMERICA???
Go to a country where you cannot have old cars because they do not meet smog regulations.
I wonder why the USA is so polluted... I wodner why Los Angeles is still a smog covered hell hole... And before you make comment yes I have been there.
well, I think I've made my point.
Yep, point being that you are a red neck retard.
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Oh and to the Russian. You fucking hypocrite. I admit that my country has done evil things how about you?
What happened after Chechs occupied a Russian museum? Hey! Lets roll the tanks into Chechoslavakia again!
The reason why the US gave weapons to the Afghanis was so that they could fight for their survival and freedom against the Russians. Yes the Taliban ended up controlling those weapons. But at least the Afghani people got the Russian occupiers out of their country.
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quote:
Originally posted by Solo:
Calum: we aren't talking about you. Stay in the game.
actually you were talking directly to me and i was responding. i think perhaps i am staying in the game, but you have decided to change the rules.
quote:
Oh and I don't care if you give your political opinions or not, and I am not a biggot. I am just trying to show any who think that their view is the common view that they are wrong
and you are not a bigot? nobody can say that the common view is wrong with such huge absolutism! quote:
and that others believe strongly in the U.S. All I am asking is that we no longer discuss politics at Fuckmicrosoft.com, because it is off-topic.
ok, ask, but be assured that the best you can do is stay out of political discussions which will invariably crop up in a free forum with intelligent people in it. If you don't want to talk about politics, then don't. You choose to do so however, just the same as everybody else here, so stop going on about how it shouldn't happen.
quote:
As for the free speech thing, *get* *real*.
right, i'm convinced. quote:
In America you can say Whatever The _Fuck_ you want. If you hate our government, go out and tell everyone, send emails and mails to your congress.
go to the police station and say it. They will be like, "Okay... And you're telling us this why?"
How about this. Would it be hard for the webmaster to add another forum for political discussions, so that when we all figure, hey I'm bored let's go flame in the political forum, we just have to click one link?
Calum, is it possible for you to be wrong? That my government is *not* that bad, or if it is, I don't mind it because I know if it gets bad enough it can be changed?
ok, you make reasonable points here, of course i can be wrong, just like you can (i suppose that did occur to you?) but you fail to take the deep rooted apathy that the US has had drilled into it for the last 60 years or so into account. My point is, from the outside of the USA all the evidence appears to show that things definitely *are* that bad, at least for many of those of you who aren't rich honkies, so why aren't you changing things? the same reason 40% of you see no point in voting, APATHY. Admit its existence and fight to get rid of it, that's if you're not scared of the social revolution it *may* cause. quote:
Is it okay for you people to leave us alone and if you have complaints with our government making attacks on other countries to contact your government representative and tell him not to support us?
NO it is NOT and i will tell you why now. hang on, this deserves a paragraph of its own:
The only time you will EVER see me making comments which US citizens think are "anti-american" (whatever that means) but which the rest of the world see as my expression of free speech, those comments are ALWAYS in response to something a US citizen has said. I NEVER cast the first stone in this stupid insult flinging contest that you yanks appear to love so much. If the USA would shut the fuck up first, i would be happy to leave you alone on the other side of the ocean to get on with it yourselves, but you don't. Your people are always mouthing off on public boards and often you make racist and bigoted comments about non US people, like the one macman made in the first post of this thread for example. instead of standing up for your right to laugh at others when they are unfairly treated by your own immigration "officials", why not grow a social conscience, like a citizen of a mature country? Show me that the USA has the maturity to participate in the international community. Then and only then will i stop making what you term "anti-american" comments in response to you, because once your country finally grows up, it will no longer be necessary to make those comments any more. quote:
Is it possible that we can drop this all from FMS and talk about getting rid of Microsoft instead of about whether Bush sucks or not?
again, of course it is, but if you are that bothered about it, stay out of the political threads. that's it. you cannot have it both ways. politics exists, if you want to ignore it (like many US citizens do) then fine, that's your right, but do NOT try to impose your opinion of what you want onto what other people should want for themselves. If you don't like people talking about politics, you do not have to listen. Is this clear?
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If these forums are as fucked as you call them Calum, then is it possible to help unfuck them up by all of us just stopping? Is it possible that if you, one of the most persuasive and respected people here (in mine and many other opinions) could help to unfuck it by not calling people with other ideas names?
for the third and final time, i did NOT start it. I was thoroughly shocked at firstly the barbarity of macman finding the ill treatment of frenchmen "funny" and even more appalled to see other people agreeing with him. This is a social injustice and any who stand by it should, in my opinion, be shot. Harsh words, but i am a political radical in many senses. It is nothing personal, i would much rather people stop holding bigoted, possibly fascist beliefs, and where possible i will attempt to use reason to get them to do it. I personally will not be shooting anybody because i do not think i have that authority (and neither does anybody else, another thing many of you americans don't agree with). That aside, shocked as i was, my response contained a certain amount of invective which i do not regret, but which i may not have used had i had time to calm down from the original offensive post.
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The only reason I called you names is to just show you how uncalled for, stupid, and troll-like it was.
what was? the name calling? i didn't call you any names by the way (until you called me some), you claimed i made a personal attack on you, and while i don't think it's a big deal who called who what, i hadn't made a personal attack on you. i simply pointed out (in a colourful way) how a lot of US citizens are bigots and how this was barbaric, you, like many US citizens would, failed to read what i was actually saying beyond the fact that i was disagreeing with you, and you took it as a personal attack. This is basic psychological development here. Some people don't take the time to do it. that's their choice, but i think everybody should try to pay attention to how they react (including me, i am particularly volatile, which is why i am aware of this "reaction to stimulus" phenomenon). quote:
Trolls don't just mean that they are here a lot, it's that they post troll comments, comments that are just intended to create flames and make people angry.
so, you just defined trolling? as you can see, that is again the total opposite of what i am trying to do. i am simply trying to hold up a mirror to people, or present my views in a novel way so that people think for themselves and become active in the world instead of living their life as if death was their only goal. In the broadest sense, my expression of my own opinions is supposed to help instigate social change, and whether you agree with me or not, i deeply resent people who attempt to silence free speakers because the only alternative to change is stagnation. quote:
I have tried to be as fair and biased on this site as possible up to now but I think I'm just gonna leave if it's pointless to be here.
i know what you mean, i should never have come back here. Void's forum is a good one for this because he forbids politics, i also hang out there and i do not discuss politics there, because that is one of the rules. However free speech is one of the rules here and until that changes, i will be making full use of the freedom that gives me. Incidentally you said just then that you were biased, when i think you were trying to say unbiased. no big deal, i am just pedantic. quote:
Maybe the webmaster should just stop the forums if they are so fucked.
he hasn't, and he is a huge proponent of free speech, for which i applaud him. i wouldn't stop the forums if i were in his place no matter how fucked they got. quote:
I'm going to register on void-main's forums right now. Because somehow I don't think my words will be taken seriously, but instead twisted.
nice parting shot, shame you are so wrong, i feel i have responded in a full and unbiased way to your words, feel free to continue this argument but after a post or two, name calling becomes meaningless. as i said though, if you really do want to keep politics out of it, go to void's forum, or simply stay here and don't post in the ocassional political threads. If you do decide to take part in political discussion in a free forum though, do remember though that if you are allowed to pour your opinions out here, then so can everybody else. This is something that i do not think US citizens really realise, which is another indicator that perhaps they are not used to true free speech. Your police guys (in your example) saying "whatever) or whatever they said) is not an example of free speech, simply an example of how apathetic those police officers are. Try being black and phoning up a police station to say you are being racially abused and threatened and you will probably get the same response ("yeah, whatever"). This is not freedom of speech.
That's all for now, i have to read and respond to the other replies now because it seems despite my best intentions, i just get drawn into political debate, possibly because there's so much in the world that people take for granted which they should actually spend some time considering for themselves.
[ June 06, 2003: Message edited by: Calum ]
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quote:
Originally posted by Faust:
Oh and to the Russian. You fucking hypocrite. I admit that my country has done evil things how about you?
stop right there. The BIG problem here, which i have pointed out time and time again is that many US citizens cannot tell the difference between the individual and the state. This does not seem to be a purely US issue however as you seem to have had this misunderstanding too.
Do you think this particular russian ordered such and such an atrocity to be commited? an individual russian is as guilty of for example the 1953 incident in East Germany where they used tanks to put down a people's uprising and imprisoned some of the demonstrators for years (look it up, it happened on 17th of June 1953) as i am guilty of the massacre of glencoe! (hint, i am not to blame for that massacre, i am not related in any way, through blood, time or anything other than nationality to those who commited that slaughter, i say this for the benefit of those who don't perhaps have much of a grasp on history or geography).
bottom line: A person is NOT their country... until they start believing they are. I have nothing against a US citizen, not until he starts standing up for the grotesque things his country has done, and more importantly is still doing. I have nothing but applause for a US citizen who speaks out and says "this is not justice, lets make our will known", i have no respect for US citizens who stand up for the status quo simply because they are frightened of social change.
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The reason why the US gave weapons to the Afghanis was so that they could fight for their survival and freedom against the Russians. Yes the Taliban ended up controlling those weapons. But at least the Afghani people got the Russian occupiers out of their country.
great. and what gave the great benevolent US, gods of the mortal universe the right to go selling weapons round the world in the first place? i put it to you that that reason is BULL SHIT. that's a reason fed to you by the US spin machine (or possibly the John Howard fan club). The real reason the US sells weapons is because
IT WANTS THE MONEY
get it? i think it's pretty simple and pretty obvious. I for one do NOT believe and will not believe that it never occurred to the US that selling a huge amount of weaponry to a third world country might mean that a terrorist organisation would get hold of the weapons.
of course nothing personal as usual etc, i just get kind of pissed off at everybody justifying all this shitty treatment of other human beings.
[ June 06, 2003: Message edited by: Calum ]
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quote:
Originally posted by Siplus: *Capitalist*:
why should i be ashamed? i hate the french. i find this amusing
that's my point. to be amused at somebody else's suffering is as bad as hating somebody you have never met for abstract reasons which have been made up in the heads of other people you have never met and injected intravenously into your consciousness purely for the sake of keeping your economy ticking over.
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are you so sure there are no WMD in iraq? give the US time to see for sure. they have already found the 'mobile weapons labs' that they claimed iraq had
i'm not sure. to be honest if there are weapons there then i'd rather the US found them than some other group, i am just pissed of at how the US and UK (not sure about other nations) are handling the whole affair in terms of PR, it's very arrogant in my opinion to treat the mass populace as cattle, and it is infuriating to see that tactic actually working.
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funny...i don't remember them saying they are going to tear up iraq. they removed sadam and his loyalists, freed the nation from tyranny (temporarily, cause i'm sure they will allow another dictator to take saddam's place eventually), and are trying to setup a new government (which is taking FOREVER).
oh yes, and in the meantime, there's a US controlled "peace" keeping "force" there. No wonder it is taking so long. have you ever heard of oil? I will be happy when the US gives Iraq back to its people with no strings attached. Then and only then will Iraq be freed from tyranny. Until that happens i will remain unconvinced that money and oil are not the prime motivators for the Iraq action. quote:
oh, and yes, we do have WMD in USA, they are called atomic bombs. it is legal for us to have them because we don't have the entire world trying to get us to prove we have distroyed all of them.
oh right, so that's okay then. Also i have no concerns that the man responsible for the largest store of nuclear weapons known to humanity was a C student at college, only recently gave up his drink habit and has been described by Nelson Mandela (one of the most respected world leaders in this century or the last) as "a president who has no foresight, who cannot think properly". (in January 2003 (http://www.seeingblack.com/2003/x022803/mandela.shtml)) quote:
i also never heard the second quote
it's not a quote, is this your main contention? that you think these are not quotes? well put it to bed, they are not quotes. i am paraphrasing. How can the US physically be quoted as saying something? If it were a quote i would have put the name of the person who said it, and possibly a URL and the date too, as it happens i could most likely dig out very similar quotes from members of the US military, so why pursue it? As i said i am paraphrasing. Go and do your own research, you might learn something. quote:
--where do you keep getting these from? i sure hope your not missquoting. that would be lying.
christ, are all americans this simple? (i know they are not, that was a deliberately inflammatory remark) it would not be "lying" it would be "paraphrasing". As i said i cannot be bothered to run around for quotes on the net to satisfy your obstreporousness, i am confident i could find suitable quotes, but you could do a better job yourself, since you would be more likely to believe your own results if you got involved a bit yourself. quote:
i also find this amusing: you people (liberals, french, most of western Europe)
ho hum quote:
kept saying 'give the inspections more time, give sadam more time, just give more time damnit.'
is that right? i sure hope you are not misquoting me because that would be lying. actually you will find if you do a search through my back posts on this forum that i always said a nice clean CIA style assasination (you know, like they did the Kennedys) of saddam hussein would be the best bet. I said the same thing about milosevic in fact. quote:
yet now, with only a few months, you are being WORCE then we were before this 'war'.
worce (sic) in what way? quote:
you want it NOW, and only NOW.
want what now? quote:
hypocrits.
right. not going to bother explaining your criticisms then? i still haven't a clue what you are on about. quote:
we waited for a LONG time before we went in, perhaps you could show the same pacience?
patience with what? what are you talking about? what is it that you think i want from you? you apparently completely misjudged my opinion before this little escapade, so i have no idea what you think my opinion is now.
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that statement makes no sence. Americans make up America, so if you hate one, you have the other. are you practicing your doublethink perhaps?
no. however you have conveniently illustrated in a couple of lines exactly what i meant. what i meant was that americans are people, the USA is a big homogenous country run by a bunch of elected and unelected officials (for want of e better word). Most americans feel so secure in their "democracy" that they do not bother to vote, or if they hear that other people's votes are being miscounted or "lost" they do not mind because they know they have a "democratic" country and that nothing really bad could ever happen in america. You choose to pull the woll over your own eyes. No country is ever free unless its citizens are active in the decision making process. Your citizens are some of the most apathetic in the world, hence you are some of the least free people to ever live in a democracy.
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first, give me an example of our immaturity! if we find a problem we can fix, we don't bitch about it for the next 4 decades, we FIX the problem!! NO, i DO NOT want to us to change our ways. if the rest of the world is too spineless to fix their own problems, then thank god we are here to fix them for you.
"we know best", another paraphrase there, but quite frankly i reject your opinion that you know best. Your country behaves in a stupid and selfish way because your citizens are too apathetic to make their views known. Those of you who speak about politics would rather defend your nonexistant democracy than fight to regain control of your nation. If somebody other than the US has a problem, then the US has NO JURISDICTION and should be advised that the only correct thing for them to do would be to FUCK OFF.
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i'm astonished. as far as i can see, it is the liberals (or, lefties, if you so disire) trying to take our rights away. such as the gun issue: demorats want to remove our right to own a gun that is given to us in our 2ed amendment.
democrats are NOT left wing. In fact in many ways they are more right wing than your republicans. quote:
Right-wingers are trying to assure us of our rights, and that is why i think of my self as conservative and NOT liberal: because i value freedom
conservatives only value freedom if freedom is already inherent in your nation. as i said before, you have been deluded into believing that freedom is there when i do not believe it is. Thus a conservative in such a country would actually be fighting to retain the lack of control that they do not realise has been imposed upon them. This is not pinko doublethink, but i despair of your ability to follow the reasoning past the first logical step, much less admit the possibility that it might be true.
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that picture was not trying to convince you of anything. was i saying anything that you would convinced of anything with? no, you're just a dumbass. i posted that b/c i remembered that picture when someone mentioned that quote. nothing more.
and so you posting that picture proves i am a dumbass? riiiiiiiight...
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hmm..you are posting bullshit. trolls post bullshit. let's put 2 and 2 together now...
hmm, what's wrong with this picture, lets see who is posting bullshit... This has lowered to pure namecalling now. i am getting bored. got anything better?
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yes, he WAS trying to be respectable at first, but then our continued ramblings pissed him off. solo: i'm sorry for adding fuel to their flaming and continuing this pointless debate
oh right, so now free speech is anti american? deary me i should have shut up and lowered my eyes, sorry massa!
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there is a difference between debating politics and posting bullshit.
a difference you and many others seem hard pushed to distinguish.
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so you think that exposing 3-year-old children to porn, violent movies, foul language, and immoral people is not wrong?
oh do i? well for your information i do not think those things, however i DO NOT agree with censorship in any form there is a difference between exposing, pushing, selling, etc. you on the other hand want to put a gun in the hand of every criminal and a gag round the mouth of everyone you disagree with. quote:
you have problems...censorship is not evil, but there are degrees of censorship that should never come into existence.
censorship is evil. and i do have problems, but my stance on social justice is not one of them.
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yup, i don't want to talk about politics here, but i CAN NOT LET your bullshit go unchallenged. i CAN NOT STAND reading what you people post, and i must do all that i can to stop it. staying silent will not help. i admit that what i'm doing isn't either, but it is better then remaining silent.
now who's the hypocrite?
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because we don't like them. we don't want them here, they don't want to be here, so we are merely suggesting something that will make both of us happy.
all of what you just said was bigoted, and bordering on racism. It completely disregarded people's ability to be individuals in their own right. quote:
we are not goign to force them to leave. we are not goign to show upto their homes with guns and forfully kick them out of america.
is that right? check again in maybe ten years and say that. quote:
we are suggesting and hoping they will agree to it. it would still be their choice.
give me your tired and your hungry... do you even know what that means? it means about as much as "to serve and protect".
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hmm...where do i begin?
probably up your own arse, that's where you usually begin. quote:
a speedy trial: meaning that we will not have to rott in jail for years before we are brought before a judge? is that what you mean? if that is the case, then i want a speedy trial. oh, and the death penilty: i do not want ANY portion of my taxmoney going the expenses of housing, food, clothing, health, or any other aspect of a mass murderer!!
in our country people are innocent until proven guilty. i think you will find that legally that is still the case in your country too, however different the reality may seem. Interesting how it only took a couple of dozen words for someone to become a "mass murderer". That aside, i agree that the legal system is not nearly as expedient as it should be in many cases however it seems the usual way to speed it up is to ignore some of the facts, which is the last thing you want to leave out of a "fair" trial. quote:
why pay for them the rest of their lives? they are not contributing to society being in jail, and we can not trust them IN society, so i think they should leave our world to burn in hell, instead of rotting in jail.
who's "them"? the estimated twenty percent (and rising) of wrongly sentenced criminals who burn in your inhumane electric chairs? this is a new subject you have broached, and it is one i am in no way conclusive about, because i do not think it is my right to say yea or nay to whether to end someone else's life or not. I do see and understand most of the reasons for doing so though, given a perfect justice system.
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LOL. haha, that's stupid. but i'm sure that it is NOT enforced. if it is, you can always challenge it in court, and i'm sure that the law would be declared unconstitional
you reckon? the fact is, it's the law. go to california and find out sometime, why don't you?
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no. it doesn't. not "all" other countries are undemocratic. that is not true. but we do have third-world countries like iran, sudi arabia, cuba who are all undemocratic.
but there are worlds of difference in what can be considered "democracy". Most of the world's major countries these days are one form of democracy or another. the "united" kingdom is a liberal democracy, meaning that you can do anything you like unless there is a law against it. the laws are maintained by a house of elected reprasentatives, and then passed or rejected by an unelected house. These houses are officially apointed by the queen of england who in reality has no right to an official political opinion. In reality the involvement of royalty is ludicrous in a democracy, the voting system we have hear is medieaval and insures that the majority of votes are not counted, and almost 30% of voters do not turn out at the polls anyway (our old friend apathy). I say this because other democracies are totally different. In Australia they have over 98% turnout rate at the polls, because voting is a legally enforced requirement. In Germany they have a voting system that allows everyone's vote to be counted towards an actual result. Not all democracies are fair, in fact i suspect there are not any which are fair. I don't have that much of a better idea for what else to use though as a system of government, other than to try and make our current democracies fairer for the people, rather than the administrators.
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there are more corrupt organizations. think of MS, Saddam's former government, cuba, N. Korea, oh, and can't forget the biggest communist state: china
actually i almost totally agree with you here, except that china is communist in name only. human beings have an inherent greed which makes them into capitalists. i think it is unlikely that the idealogy of communism can ever be implemented for this reason.
[ June 06, 2003: Message edited by: Calum ]
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quote:
Calum: human beings have an inherent greed which makes them into capitalists.
Please explain that. I happen to have another opinion.
(http://www.anarchosyndicalism.org/img/rgifs/commune.gif)
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Are they in a majority Refalm? Or just a few free thinkers who will be drowned out by the teeming masses? :(
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quote:
Faust: Are they in a majority Refalm? Or just a few free thinkers who will be drowned out by the teeming masses? :(
Anarchism in Australia (http://www.infoshop.org/inews/stories.php?topic=29)
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luckily there are many different opinions in the world and that's what makes life interesting, but to be honest if you disagree with me that humans are inherently capitalist, then how do you explain the USSR? and in a more abstract way, how do you explain the USA?
PS, the dutch in your signature is just a little too difficult for me to understand, what's it mean in english please?
[ June 06, 2003: Message edited by: Calum ]
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Communism is flawed. It gives ordinary people no voice into the government. And without a rule which stops bosses from gaining more power, what's there to stop them? If it's too easy for a few people to play boss over someone for a long period of time, like what happened in the USSR, then this is what you get eventually: capitalism.
Anarchism is pure democracy, there are no bosses, and in an Anarcho-Syndicalist eviroment, there is no point in trying to play boss (people who like to play boss, are childish in my opinion).
Oh yes, translation of my sig:
"Because the government protects it's investment. Computercriminality has the priority in the de-criminalisation. In the process of the modernisation, led by the automatisation, pisses me off."
It's by the Dutch rapper "Raymzter" from the album "Rayalistisch".
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Calum, I'd just like you to know that I respect you alot, and I thank you for taking the time to respond to things like this. Apathy, and especially apathy for internet discussions, make it very easy to choose not to get involved in threads like this.
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SO SHUTUP!!!!!!
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Hey Macman, you can't come in here and spark a debate by posting links to such articles and then tell people to shut up! Then why did you post it in the first place? What did you really expect?
Now, I won't bother answering to 16 year old kids that haven't even crossed their own state's borders yet. Have a look around, visit more countries, get to know more people and cultures and then come back here to post.
If only you knew where you'd be without the French! You seem to be forgetting that it's because of the French that you're now enjoying your so-called freedom.
That's all..
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I SAID I WAS KIDDING!!!!! I DON'T HATE THE FRENCH FOR THE FIFTEENTH TIME AND THIS WHOLE DEBATE IS RETARDED!!!!!! I WAS MAKING FUN OF THE PEOPLE WHO MAKE FUN OF THEM BUT NOW I SEE YOU GUYS ARE ALL A BUNCH OF HUMORLESS NITWITS!!!!!!!!!!! (no offense)
[ June 06, 2003: Message edited by: Macman: HAS 1000 POSTS ]
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quote:
Originally posted by Macman: HAS 1000 POSTS:
I SAID I WAS KIDDING!!!!! I DON'T HATE THE FRENCH FOR THE FIFTEENTH TIME AND THIS WHOLE DEBATE IS RETARDED!!!!!! I WAS MAKING FUN OF THE PEOPLE WHO MAKE FUN OF THEM BUT NOW I SEE YOU GUYS ARE ALL A BUNCH OF HUMORLESS NITWITS!!!!!!!!!!! (no offense)
[ June 06, 2003: Message edited by: Macman: HAS 1000 POSTS ]
lol :D I know you were kidding. I was just pulling your leg :D
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quote:
Originally posted by Panos:
lol :D I know you were kidding. I was just pulling your leg :D
grrrrrrrrrr.... (http://www.akgames.net/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_evil.gif)
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There's pee in the elevator. It doesn't smell like it should.
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::sigh::
Alright, for the sake of trying to save FMS' forums I apologize. Siplus has stated much of what I would say so I won't repeat it. Calum, I'm sorry about calling you a troll, I suppose our definitions of a troll differ somewhat. I of course value all of the opinions at FMS, political, technological, moral. However we come from [stress]so many[/stress] different places that political discussion seems to just get us all pissed off at each other. Faust took a stab at the russion dood now, so we are beginning to branch.
I understand your negative feelings about my country's government and only ask of you that you consider my outlook, from the inside of the country. I in turn of course understand what you are saying. I don't like some of the Bush/9.11-powered bills sent through Congress lately either, but we can always challenge the law, and I'm sure the Supreme Court would declare it unconsitutional if they deemed it to be. As for corruption in the U.S. government, we have strict laws against exchange of money from entities to spokespeople of the government, and if that's found it is punished. And how many cases of corruption have you witnessed?
Life in America is great. I cherish my right to vote, and think it absolutely essential to have an opinion on political matters at hand and current events.
I just think it would make more sense to have rules on political discussion: not as strict of void main's rules because this site is about free speech . Something to the point of "Please refrain from political topics outside of the Political forum".
In the U.S. there is a very popular game series introduced in recent years. It's called Grand Theft Auto. Perhaps you've heard of it.
I play GTA3 and GTA: Vice City a *lot*. That says something in itself for whether I believe in censorship.
So in closing, I am sorry for any references in this post that you do not agree with, if any. I have always respected Calum's views and always will. I believe in freedom of speech and hate censorship. I love living in America, and love politics. I love debating whether the war is right, etc. I just don't like doing it here, where it is so *fierce*. I'm offended when people say my country sucks, it makes me not like them (dont flame me for being like that: i can't help it). I don't want to not like any of you. I love posting at FMS (notice I think I've posted about 90 posts in the last week, half of everything I've posted here--not because of this discussion, but because of all the fun anti-microsoft pro-linux stuff going on).
[Comedy]
I love you all
[/Comedy]
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hmm...i had a very long reponce i was going to post (but couldn't because my connection would timeout, i was going to post it tomorrow when i get my cable modem), but i guess solo just made a very good closing post--and i wouldn't want to disturb that closing with adding more fuel to the fire.
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quote:
Originally posted by Panos:
lol :D I know you were kidding. I was just pulling your leg :D
yeah man, don't take it so seriously! christ! don't you have a sense of humour? :D :D :D
and to solo:
interestingly i agree with you about everything you said. the only thing i can possibly contend with you about is this: quote:
but we can always challenge the law
why don't you then?
sorry i know it sounds like i am pissing on your bonfire after you wrapped it up so nicely, as i said i agree with everything else you said. I just think that the feeling that we are free to change our govt if we don't like it is a false sense of freedom, as it breeds apathy.
Sigh. we could go on forever like this if it were to continue.
[ June 09, 2003: Message edited by: Calum ]
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Calum: thanks. As for the law thing: eh I'm to lazy. When it hurts me I'll get pissed and try to start a movement and all that but until then just let me be the frog in slowly heating water
hehe dont take what im saying now seriously, its only lukewarm (http://smile.gif)