Stop Microsoft
All Things Microsoft => Microsoft Software => Topic started by: doublefresh on 17 November 2002, 17:42
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I agree 100% Bill gates is Satan and his software is full of spyware. I also know Linux is open source and runs most of the webservers on the net.
Where I disagree with many of you is that you have to badmouth MS for crashing and not working and in general sucking ass when it's just not true.
I run 6 computers on my desk with a KVM switch 24/7 All but one of them are Microsoft products. They run for months at a time without crashing. I edit audio and video, I do graphical manipulation with very large files, I scan the web for interesting things and my computers do not crash.
I install millions of programs, I delete millions of programs I surf thousands of websites and still my computers do not crash.
The features and resource hogs that ship by default from MS I turn off. My slowest machine is an old 300A Celeron that has been overclocked to 450 MHZ for 5 years, My fastest is a dual 500 with a raid 5 setup running W2k Advanced Server.
Why are you having so many problems with Microsofts products? I don't.
Other than Bill Gates trying to rule the world and spyware I have no problem with MS Products.
Maybe it's just that you are computer morons and don't know enough about MS products to run them properly :)
Seriously, why does my Windows work and yours dont?
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quote:
Seriously, why does my Windows work and yours dont?
Because you have a Satanic pact with Bill Gates?
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Now to actually comment...
Look, everyone knows w2k/xp doesn't generally crash a lot; nobody is going to argue with you there. The reason people say it sucks is because so what if it doesn't crash as much as Win 9x? *Nothing* should crash that much as it is. People see Linux as a better solution because not only does it not crash but it comes with hundreds of applications for free and it fits well with many people's philosophy. I use Windows XP and Linux, and really I don't see a ton of things XP does that I'm not able to do in Linux. I can play all my games in both OSes (except Morrowind, but oh well) and sometimes it's nice to surf the internet and do email without the slightest fear of getting a virus. (My friend uses XP and sometimes gets thousands of Nimda viruses every day - and he has Norton too) My brother had a trojan in his machine that must have come from some crack he downloaded of Kazaa (which is full of such shit) and Norton didn't detect it until he manually scanned the file out of suspicion a few days later. (He got suspicous because the windows task manager had two instances of "Microsoft Windows" running with the unibomber for the icon. Ouch!) And sure, the XP interface is nice and I really can't ask for much more, but Linux's isn't so bad either, especially RH8.
You say you have 5 computers all running Microsoft software, and one is advanced server. What does that come to, 2000 dollars or something for the software alone? Really, I'm not sure how smart a person can be if they choose to shell out that kind of money for a Windows server. And if you pirated it, well, that just tells me you think MS's products are too crappy to pay for.
[ November 17, 2002: Message edited by: Windows XP User #5225982375 ]
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Actually I'm a network administrator and my company has 600+ licensed copies of MS products. As one of the IT guys I don't have a problem running MS products at home to learn to be a better network admin. I guess you could call it pirating but I prefer to call it training for work.
Again I did not say a single bad thing about any other OS. I agree Microsoft has evil built in but the OS itself is stable and does everything most people need it to.
If people need to badmouth MS do it for the real reason of Spyware and closed source. Don't bash it for crashing and being a crappy OS. It's just not true. Win 98 did crash every now and then but It's not 1988 any longer. MS corrected it's crashing problems.
If you want to compare Linux to Win 98 make sure you use a version of Linux from 1988.
And I have to say Linux in 1988 was not a user friendly system for begginers. I had to try 4 distros in 1988 before I found one that would work on my computer.
I just installed Mandrake 9.0 on this computer 5 minutes ago and I like it so far but I can't compare it to win 98 because as I said win 98 was made almost 5 years ago when a P233 was the fastest processor on the market.
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quote:
Actually I'm a network administrator and my company has 600+ licensed copies of MS products.
Your company is the reason why Bill Gates is so rich (http://tongue.gif)
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Oh, now it's my fault bill gates is rich. LOL
600 copies at $200 each is less than $120,000
While I agree this is a huge sum of money it is not enough to make Bill rich.
It certainly was not my decision to buy this software either.
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Well, I guess you're special...
One of the guys at work runs XP and normally only reads e-mail and uses m$ access. This computer has suffered from complete corruption SEVERAL times, and there is no explanation. It is a Dell, tech support says the hardware is fine, and they have actually blown us off because they have run every possibly diagnosis, and they conclude that it is a software problem. Software being win XP, outlook, office 2000, Norton AV 2002.
Hmmm.....I remember Double Fresh's first post...who would've known he was just a windoid troll.
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quote:
Originally posted by doublefresh:
Actually I'm a network administrator and my company has 600+ licensed copies of MS products. As one of the IT guys I don't have a problem running MS products at home to learn to be a better network admin. I guess you could call it pirating but I prefer to call it training for work.
Again I did not say a single bad thing about any other OS. I agree Microsoft has evil built in but the OS itself is stable and does everything most people need it to.
If people need to badmouth MS do it for the real reason of Spyware and closed source. Don't bash it for crashing and being a crappy OS. It's just not true. Win 98 did crash every now and then but It's not 1988 any longer. MS corrected it's crashing problems.
If you want to compare Linux to Win 98 make sure you use a version of Linux from 1988.
And I have to say Linux in 1988 was not a user friendly system for begginers. I had to try 4 distros in 1988 before I found one that would work on my computer.
I just installed Mandrake 9.0 on this computer 5 minutes ago and I like it so far but I can't compare it to win 98 because as I said win 98 was made almost 5 years ago when a P233 was the fastest processor on the market.
Hey, here's a hint: The "98" in "Windows 98" means that it was released around 1998, NOT 1988. And I will gladly compare any linux distro from 1998 to Windows 98, just to show you it's a piece of shit.
Linux was always stable - Windows 98 (or any Windows, for that matter) still has code from Windows 3.1.
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Your assumption is that we are morons because our computers crashed when we used to use Windows. That is funny. An experiment I did maybe a year and a half ago on my win98se box. I turned the computer on and did absolutely nothing to it. I ran no programs and touched nothing except those that started at boot time. I let the computer sit for days trying to see if I could get a super high uptime. After 7 days I come home from work to find a BSOD has occured. Im able to get out of that, but I notice that my computer is running very slow and the hard drive light just stays on. So I decide to get on the internet, and I find to my amazement that my modem no longer is detected. Im pissed at this point, so I decide to open up control panel to see what I can do when another BSOD occurs. This time nothing can free me and I reboot. After the reboot everything is fine again. Keep in mind other than trying to connect to the internet and look at the control panel, I did nothing. Shortly afterwords I switched to linux and found that after 66 days uptime, everything still ran perfectly smooth. I guess Im just a moron though.
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i have windows xp installed at work on a daul athlon 1.2ghz, 1gig registered ddr, geforce 4, 2ibm scsi drives, blah blah blah, and it is not stable. it crashes alot. i think i have reinstalled the os on that system about 7 times since i got it (september 2001). on my windows machine at home, i finally took xp off because of the crashing, i put 2000 on it. it still crashes, just not as much.
my parents are always calling bitching that their computer crashed. my girlfreinds windows machine crashes alot. one of my freinds is a systems administrator, he swears his sytems do not crash, but i was over at his house and he tried to show me a video, insted we got to see a windows blue screen. all of the computers at work crash regularly. our "server" (running windows 2000) has actually been up for *gasp* 35 days now. that is our record.
now, my redhat 8 install has never crashed, nor did my mandrake 8 or 9 install, or suse 8. they ran fine on a machine that windows couldnt run on.
my mac has not crashed. sometimes i have a program error in linux or mac, but they have never crashed.
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This link is from webmasterworld.com
www.webmasterworld.com/forum9/3646.htm (http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum9/3646.htm)
It seems to me you are the only MS user who isn't familiar with the BSOD.
I used to use MS stuff for graphics and it crashed at least daily.
zooloo
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I was the senior systems and network engineer for a company that ran 4000 Microsoft desktops. I don't think you are going to tell me anything I don't already know about Microsoft. And by the way. I *rarely* touch an M$ OS any more. I'm nearly 100% Linux at home (I do run Win2k advanced server in VMware just for connectivity testing). Don't get so uptight. Get Linux instead.
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With Linux i dont ave to worry about apps being downloaded in my computer with out me knowing it. Yes I got the weather app, that gator crap and date manager downloaded and installed with out me having the chance to say yes or no.
You will say I should be carefull then where I go. Well here is the thing, why the hell I should be carefull. M$ claims to have a browser that is very secure.
Secure my ass.
With Linux i roam around like a blonde smoking a doobie leaving all the wurms and viruses for the REAL blondes. The Windos users.
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quote:
Originally posted by ThePreacher:
After 7 days I come home from work to find a BSOD has occured.
Mah Kazaa/FTP Win 98 box' uptime (http://home.midsouth.rr.com/fett101/ss.gif)
I wouldn't consider your test a good experiment. If it was, you would implement controls and maybe some variables. Maybe different. updated versions of Win98. Maybe different hardware configurations. Different amounts of ram. Etc. Etc.
quote:
Originally posted by bazoukas :
With Linux i dont ave to worry about apps being downloaded in my computer with out me knowing it. Yes I got the weather app, that gator crap and date manager downloaded and installed with out me having the chance to say yes or no.
Best check your IE security options then.
"Other people that had higher security settings on MSIE would not get the automatic download without first knowing about it. Those people would get a popup confirmation box that would ask for permission to download. The person could cancel the download." [source (http://www.thiefware.com/info/data.gator.shtml)
It is also possible that it was installed with some other shareware or freeware. Imesh and Kazaa often do that, even if you tell them not to.
[ November 17, 2002: Message edited by: fett101 ]
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I flinch everytime I hear that if a person wants to get rid of most of their windows problems, they should upgrade to the next latest and greatest....
I don't think so!!! I'm taking my business elsewhere.
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I'll admit that Win2K crashes very little, but it does crash. At work we had a small network of 3 servers all running streaming servers, all with win2000. Yeah, they lasted a long time, I think they went flawlessly for over 6 months. But finally one crashed, and that caused great pain and suffering for about a day, in which we had to come up with a good excuse. Then we decided to set it up so it would auto reboot every 6 weeks to prevent another error. All of our other servers are running Red Hat linux, mostly 7.3, and not one has ever crashed. Windows may work, but Linux does work alot better dispite costing much less. The hardware necessary to run is costs less too. Maybe when there is a crash in windows, its caused by an application. But even errant applications cannot crash linux. If you are happy with win, go for it, but in the long run you will be far better off if you switch.
V
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Until I'm 100% comfortable using Linux I'll be running both.
I know how to use a lot of MS programs and I have little experience with Linux.
Something that I know how to do with MS may take me all day to figure out with Linux.
Even all the commands are different rather than IPconfig /all it's ifconfig. It's going to take me a while to get used to but I'm learning slowly.
In the last few days I've got an Apache server running, Samba working, and a neat little program called webmin to ease the configuration of my servers. I still can't get wine to work and I've been fighting with Gnome to install some new themes.
With 6 computers at my desk I don't have to pick one or the other. I run them all :)
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BTW,
I had Mandrake 8 and now 9 on this Computer and it crashes after 4 hours of inactivity. Am I to judge Linux for doing this to this machine? W2K works just fine for months at a time on the same box.
No, I'm not that shallow. I'm sure it's hardware not that Linux sucks rabbit testicles :)
Peace
2X
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quote:
Originally posted by doublefresh:
Even all the commands are different rather than IPconfig /all it's ifconfig. It's going to take me a while to get used to but I'm learning slowly.
We'll be glad to help you out on your learning. It's interesting you bring up "ipconfig" vs "ifconfig". It's a typical example of how Microsoft did not conform to the standards of all of the other OSs thus making your life harder when you want to try something else. It's been "ifconfig" in almost all UNIX systems I have used for the last 12 years. It wasn't until *NT that "ipconfig" showed up in Windows. Why couldn't they just have used "ifconfig" like everyone else? But I think you will pick things up quickly. Webmin is a great utility. It's good to learn what is really happening at the OS level though so can just use it as an extra tool rather than a crutch.
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Hmm...I'll give you half credit. From someone I know:
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The biggest downer has been XP. I have a laptop with XP now, as well as my desktop. And BOTH have crashed in the last week and needed to be totally reinstalled - and the programs etc all reinstalled as well .... so much for XP being an advance on previous OSes!! Never had this with Win 2k!!
XP is definately worse than 2k. I will agree that certain things DO cause XP to crash more often, such as Graphics work (I would know, I do loads of it).
My uptime records and how the record stopped.
XP: 7 days, 7 hours, 13 minutes. BSOD Crash ironically after exiting SiSoft Sandra to check the uptime. Typically crashes in Maya and Bryce (especially while exiting or rendering).
Mac (7200): 44 days, 17 hours. The hard drive died, and I didn't have RAID at the time.
Linux (Slackware) 58 days. The UPS couldn't handle 3 hour power outage (http://smile.gif) .
Windows 2000: 10 days. DoS attack + Nimda, had to be shut down.
[ November 18, 2002: Message edited by: The Muffin Man: Mac Commando ]
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I honestly don't understand why your windows operating systems crash so much. My Windows 2000 advanced server only gets shut down when I switch hardware or if there is a lightning storm. My XP box has been on for months and other than it having a SCSI drive that is going bad it has no problems. Ocasionally I give the box a kick to get the SCSI drive spinning again but the OS itself has been wonderful. About a year ago I was heavily into working on a web site. 14+ hours a day for three months straight. Photoshop, Cold Fusion, Dreamweaver, WSFTP, notepad, frontpage, outlook, winamp and a few bulk mailers all running day in and day out with no problems.
And you people claim that yours crash on you just from using e-mail and the internet???
I'd blame Dell, Gateway, Compaq, your ISP and AOL for 75% of your problems.
I've had to re-install NT4 to solve problems but never XP or W2K
Again my disclaimer. No operating system is perfect, I realize MS is not open source and full of spyware.
This has not stopped me from getting pop ups while using Linux on the web or nag screens while installing linux software.
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You need to install Squid proxy with Ad Zapper and point all of your clients to it. It blocks 99.9% of all advertizements and a lot of popups. Popups can be disabled completely in Mozilla and Konqueror (as well as all the other browsers on Linux that I am aware of).
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quote:
Originally posted by doublefresh:
I honestly don't understand why your windows operating systems crash so much. My Windows 2000 advanced server only gets shut down when I switch hardware or if there is a lightning storm. My XP box has been on for months and other than it having a SCSI drive that is going bad it has no problems. Ocasionally I give the box a kick to get the SCSI drive spinning again but the OS itself has been wonderful. About a year ago I was heavily into working on a web site. 14+ hours a day for three months straight. Photoshop, Cold Fusion, Dreamweaver, WSFTP, notepad, frontpage, outlook, winamp and a few bulk mailers all running day in and day out with no problems.
And you people claim that yours crash on you just from using e-mail and the internet???
I'd blame Dell, Gateway, Compaq, your ISP and AOL for 75% of your problems.
I've had to re-install NT4 to solve problems but never XP or W2K
Again my disclaimer. No operating system is perfect, I realize MS is not open source and full of spyware.
This has not stopped me from getting pop ups while using Linux on the web or nag screens while installing linux software.
You can kill the pop ups. Do a little search and you will find out how. This might help you. Galeon. It might be in Mozilla too i havent checked. Here is the nice part of it. You dont need to Dload another app to do it for you. Its built in the browser.
Plus you do some adjustements and you are worry free from scripts running on your web browser. IE has yet to fix problems like that 9even with security settings up high).
[ November 18, 2002: Message edited by: bazoukas ]
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quote:
Originally posted by doublefresh:
I'd blame Dell, Gateway, Compaq, your ISP and AOL for 75% of your problems.
Virtually no one here uses Dell, Gateway, Compaq or AOL, so that argument is a bit moot.
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And *nobody* here uses AOL. I would use it before I used MSN though. (http://smile.gif)
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me wants to forget my AOL days 2-3 years ago :(
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I think you have that backwards. Microsoft lacks software compatibility.
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I use AIM thrugh iChat :D
It's good. No spyware, just chat. Nifty interface too.
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quote:
Originally posted by Ex Eleven / b0b 2.1:
I use AOL thru gAim, and MSN thru amsn ( amsn.sourceforge.net )
why dont you just use MSN through Gaim??
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I worked as tech support for Dell 2 years ago. Our required solution to 80% of the problems was to re-install the operating system. This was not because the Operating sytem was flawed outrageously but because the callers were not bright enough to click on the right buttons to solve the problems.
It could take 15 minutes just to walk someone through clicking (start) -> (run) -> (msconfig)
People are stupid.
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quote:
Originally posted by doublefresh:
I worked as tech support for Dell 2 years ago. Our required solution to 80% of the problems was to re-install the operating system. This was not because the Operating sytem was flawed outrageously but because the callers were not bright enough to click on the right buttons to solve the problems.
It could take 15 minutes just to walk someone through clicking (start) -> (run) -> (msconfig)
People are stupid.
Last time I checked reinstalling the Windows operating system takes longer than 15 minutes. Maybe that's why they fired you. But here is a simple solution. Just create a web page that will reformat their hard drive when they click on a link:
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/11/19/174214 (http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/11/19/174214)
http://www.jmu.edu/computing/security/info/iehot.shtml (http://www.jmu.edu/computing/security/info/iehot.shtml)
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woopsy do, you have Windows handling 100 computers and it doesnt crash. Wooohooooo look ma i can ride a bike.
How come Windows Server 2000 crashes when registration starts at my college? It did today, and it did again the previous semester. Open registration=Heavy traffic on the Network.
The graphic arts students have to wait till tomorow untill they can bring back to life the database for them.
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quote:
Originally posted by doublefresh:
I worked as tech support for Dell 2 years ago. Our required solution to 80% of the problems was to re-install the operating system.
if you don't see anything wrong with this, then i cannot in any way begin to answer your queries, no matter how civil and well worded.
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Everyone has different expecineces using windows,and its not, this guys fault that its not crashing on him every so often, he must have a really good combination of hardware to pull that off. i see windows problems left and right here where i work and i know it blows, so lets not call him a windoid troll just yet, he needs to experience the horrors or multiple BSOD's before he can realize what crap pragramming they really have.
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Thanks, and BTW I was not canned. I took the job to save cash for a vacation and quit a month later. My month long vacation to the west coast was beautiful. I drove my Jeep from Delaware to Portland Oregon and hung out with friends for a week then drove down to Tahoe California. I spent a week in Moab Utah mt. biking then another week in Michigan sailing. I began working for Dupont when I returned. I obviously don't use Dell as a reference and I certainly realize their support is terrible. I used them for quick cash and don't care because they are not much better than Microsoft when it comes to screwing people.
As far as the 15 minutes comment blow me :)
It would take some of them 30 minutes to type in a web address.
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I ran 95 on home-built hardware and it NEVER crashed. I ran OS/2 on the same hardware and it never crashed.
I upgraded to 98 and it crashed its ass off while OS/2 kept plugging away. Then came Red Hat 5, and it was badass for stability.
I went to NT 4 and it was rock solid, just like OS/2 and Linux, then I upgraded the hardware again, and everything was fine. Then I got 2000 Pro, and it was stable. Then I upgraded, ending up with some dubious hardware. 2000 would gimme BSODs all the time. Linux and NT 4 were fine.
I've had XP Pro running on my mom and sister's computers for a year with zero problems. I've had Mac OS X running for a year with no problems. My dad's had a file/print server running with Red Hat 6.1 since early 2000... not one hiccup. He also runs 2000 Pro on a Dell P2 350 and a Compaq Deskpro P2 450. He put XP Pro on a K6-2 550 'book and it's good.
I think we've gotten to the point where any OS is rock solid on the right hardware. I've seen XP be shit and be badass. I've seen OS/2 be super, then crap out suddenly when you change hardware. I've seen Linux do it. I've seen OS X be superfly on my iMac, but be a bitch on the G4 that I bought and sold within a month.
I still ain't got anything against XP aside from spyware. But I still hate MS. They might finally be hiring competent programmers, but they still need to DIE.
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:D
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quote:
Originally posted by bob:
Didnt know you could?
You need to enable the plugin. there are lots in there.
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quote:
Originally posted by fett101:
Best check your IE security options then.
"Other people that had higher security settings on MSIE would not get the automatic download without first knowing about it. Those people would get a popup confirmation box that would ask for permission to download. The person could cancel the download." [source (http://www.thiefware.com/info/data.gator.shtml)
It is also possible that it was installed with some other shareware or freeware. Imesh and Kazaa often do that, even if you tell them not to.
[ November 17, 2002: Message edited by: fett101 ]
Damn your uptime is so high!!! Wow, you must be a God!!!! Oh well I can never compare to your almighty box.
sorry! X11 told me we had to link to all our images in case he's on dialup (http://www.badconnections.net/misc/uptime1.png) - send him a private message about it (http://forum.fuckmicrosoft.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=private_message&u=00000625) if you don't like it.
[ November 22, 2002: Message edited by: Calum ]
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quote:
I worked as tech support for Dell 2 years ago.
Our required solution to 80% of the problems was to re-install the operating system. This was not because the Operating sytem was flawed outrageously but because the callers were not bright enough to click on the right buttons to solve the problems.
It could take 15 minutes just to walk someone through clicking (start) -> (run) -> (msconfig)
People are stupid.
I think it's because wind0ze problems can be complex sometimes. There is likely many a n00b that can re-install their OS if told exactly what to do, but they may get a little lost otherwise.
In fact re-installing an OS is easy, because you don't even have to format it or set up partitions, just install away!
Then there is people like me who aren't 1337 with their comp, but could solve almost ANY problem if you gave me guranteed to work step by step instructions. Even just on a piece of paper I could probably handle most problems. The problem is getting a problem solver who doesn't have problems solving your problems to write down really good how to solve your problems that you normally have a problem solving. (http://smile.gif)
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It's not the OS reinstall part that is that bad. It's having to reinstall all of your apps again, reconfiguring everything back to the way you liked it (good luck), etc, etc, etc... It shouldn't be this way, and doesn't have to be.
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AGREED! Just out of curiosity, is it possible that you could set up Linux so that the entire OS is re-installed as if it were fresh, yet all your links and applications are intact? Of course that may be impossible, because "fresh" means getting rid of dead links and such, and you either have your old structure, or you have something fresh and clean. Or am I thinking too much like wind0ze?
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I believe you are thinking too much like Windows. To be honest I don't remember ever having to "reinstall" Linux in the last 8 years. That's the truth. But I also know more about Linux and UNIX than your average user so any problem I ever had I was able to recover from without a reinstall. But I also back up my stuff, which has the added side effect of making your system never crash. It will only crash if you don't have backups. This is covered in Computers 101.
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the MacOS never has these problems. You re-install everything stays intact. Only the system is redone :D
At leat in Classic, OSX may be diffrent now. Woulden't know, havent had to re-install it.
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hey i resent that none of us use AOL. i use it when i use windows. but it is b/c the damn ebay will not let me change my password without a credit card. but i do have cable internet so i really use that
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quote:
Originally posted by psyjax v6.9 /Dave: Mac Zealot:
Wouldn't know, havent had to re-install it.
Me neither! :D
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i did a reinstall when i first got my mac. only because i wanted to see what the install process was like (http://smile.gif)
i cant count how many times i reinstalled windows.
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This is bs.
Let's say I buy a new great awesome
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quote:
Originally posted by Dressler:
This is bs.
Let's say I buy a new great awesome