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Miscellaneous => Applications => Topic started by: Annorax on 20 September 2005, 09:39

Title: Free Opera, No More Registration Bullshit
Post by: Annorax on 20 September 2005, 09:39
http://my.opera.com/community/

Opera's all free as of version 8.5. Now the reason for teh free keys is that much clearer...
Title: Re: Free Opera, No More Registration Bullshit
Post by: skyman8081 on 20 September 2005, 10:07
I said fuck yeah!
Title: Re: Free Opera, No More Registration Bullshit
Post by: Aloone_Jonez on 20 September 2005, 13:25
[GNU_fanboy]Yes it may be free (as in beer) but it's not trully free, I'll never use Opera because it still sucks as it's still proprietary $oftwarez.[/GNU_fanboy]
Title: Re: Free Opera, No More Registration Bullshit
Post by: Refalm on 20 September 2005, 16:05
I'm not sure how Opera is being financed in that way, but Opera has been my browser of choice for like 6 months now! It's amazing!
Title: Re: Free Opera, No More Registration Bullshit
Post by: WMD on 20 September 2005, 18:33
Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
[GNU_fanboy]Yes it may be free (as in beer) but it's not trully free, I'll never use Opera because it still sucks as it's still proprietary $oftwarez.[/GNU_fanboy]

You couldn't just wait for PiratePenguin to stop by? :p
Title: Re: Free Opera, No More Registration Bullshit
Post by: piratePenguin on 20 September 2005, 19:24
Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
[GNU_fanboy]Yes it may be free (as in beer) but it's not trully free, I'll never use Opera because it still sucks as it's still proprietary $oftwarez.[/GNU_fanboy]
No, the opera developers suck.

And I'll never use Opera as far as I can see, because it's a grand total of zero inconvenience points to use Firefox instead.

Quote from: WMD
You couldn't just wait for PiratePenguin to stop by?
Well, I wouldn't have said a word.

Thank you Aloone_Jonez, for inviting me to this thread. Now we can have a nice civil ten page long flame.

I'll speak for myself in future. :fu:
Title: Re: Free Opera, No More Registration Bullshit
Post by: worker201 on 20 September 2005, 19:33
I'll continue to use Firefox, just because.
Title: Re: Free Opera, No More Registration Bullshit
Post by: MarathoN on 20 September 2005, 22:10
Yeah, I'm currently using Firefox again after formatting.

I prefer to have the best of both though. :)
Title: Re: Free Opera, No More Registration Bullshit
Post by: Aloone_Jonez on 20 September 2005, 22:17
Quote from: piratePenguin
No, the opera developers suck.

Yes, of course they suck for being so fucking evil and keeping their precious source code that they've invested for themselves.

Quote from: piratePenguin
And I'll never use Opera as far as I can see, because it's a grand total of zero inconvenience points to use Firefox instead.

Urm inconvenience points ay? You're obviously not very good at spotting these, I hop I can help you as I can think of many of these:

(1) No decent download manager.
(2) No zoom.
(3) No saving of sessions.
(4) Slower.
(5) Higher memeory and resource usage.

I could think of more but these are the bigest inconvenience points.

Quote from: piratePenguin

Quote from: WMD
You couldn't just wait for PiratePenguin to stop by? :p

Well, I wouldn't have said a word.

Thank you Aloone_Jonez, for inviting me to this thread. Now we can have a nice civil ten page long flame.

I'll speak for myself in future. :fu:

Well technically I didn't invite you, but none the less thank you WMD and piratePenguin for complementing me on the quality of my impression. :thumbup:
Title: Re: Free Opera, No More Registration Bullshit
Post by: piratePenguin on 20 September 2005, 22:37
Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
Yes, of course they suck for being so fucking evil and keeping their precious source code that they've invested for themselves.
Quite right.
Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
Urm inconvenience points ay? You're obviously not very good at spotting these, I hop I can help you as I can think of many of these:

(1) No decent download manager.
(2) No zoom.
(3) No saving of sessions.
(4) Slower.
(5) Higher memeory and resource usage.

I could think of more but these are the bigest inconvenience points.
(1) The download manager does me rightly.
(2) How inconvenient!
(3) Wrong.
(4) I've always found it very fast. I'm using Firefox 1.5 beta 1 ATM and it's even faster than 1.0.6 was at rendering.
(5) I've never had any problems with memory or resources, even with my 256mb RAM.

Does this mean that alot of GNU/Linux distributions will be shipping with Opera? Are they allowd to now?
Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
Well technically I didn't invite you, but none the less thank you WMD and piratePenguin for complementing me on the quality of my impression. :thumbup:
I think everybody got it.
Top notch stuff.
Title: Re: Free Opera, No More Registration Bullshit
Post by: Aloone_Jonez on 20 September 2005, 23:01
Quote from: piratePenguin
Quite right.

Well that's the only bad thing about the developers, in fact the Opera developers are more skill innovative being able to pack more features into a smaller package, while all the Mozilla team try to do is copy them.

Quote from: piratePenguin
(1) The download manager does me rightly.

But too bad when the Internet connection fails or there's a power cut and you loose your download.

Quote from: piratePenguin
(2) How inconvenient!

It is when you're running 1600x1200 and you view a page designed for 800x600.

Quote from: piratePenguin
(3) Wrong.

How do you do this in Firefox then?

Quote
(4) I've always found it very fast. I'm using Firefox 1.5 beta 1 ATM and it's even faster than 1.0.6 was at rendering.

I haven't tried the new beta, I might though, just to see if it still sucks just as much.

Quote from: piratePenguin
(5) I've never had any problems with memory or resources, even with my 256mb RAM.

Neither have I with Opera and this is with 248MB and I'm running Windows XP which as you know is a lot heavier than Slackware.

Quote from: piratePenguin
Does this mean that alot of GNU/Linux distributions will be shipping with Opera? Are they allowd to now?

If they obide with the terms of the licence I don't see any reason why not, and I hope they do start to distribute Opera.
Title: Re: Free Opera, No More Registration Bullshit
Post by: piratePenguin on 20 September 2005, 23:35
Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
But too bad when the Internet connection fails or there's a power cut and you loose your download.
Yea, too bad.
There's always the mighty wget. I used to use it for downloading big files on dialup.
Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
How do you do this in Firefox then?
http://kb.mozillazine.org/SessionSaver
Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
I haven't tried the new beta, I might though, just to see if it still sucks just as much.
What sucks about Firefox then?
Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
If they obide with the terms of the licence
That's what I'm asking: does the licence allow it.
Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
I don't see any reason why not, and I hope they do start to distribute Opera.
Alot of them will. And alot of them won't (of which a subset (e.g. Ubuntu) will refuse it simply because it's not free software (then again it'll probably end up in a non-free Ubuntu/Debian repository), and others because it's hardley worth it.).
Title: Re: Free Opera, No More Registration Bullshit
Post by: worker201 on 20 September 2005, 23:40
It took me a crazy long time, but I finally found a copy of the Opera EULA.

Just so you know:
Quote
You shall not modify, translate, reverse engineer, decompile or disassemble the Software or any part thereof or otherwise attempt to derive source code or create derivative works therefrom.

You are not allowed to remove, alter or destroy any proprietary, trademark or copyright markings or notices placed upon or contained with the Software.


Thanks, I'll stick with Mozilla-based browsers.

As far as dropping Opera into a Linux distro, doubtful.  Many distros will not include anything that is not GPL-ed - remember X11?  Also, my understanding is that if installing your Linux requires you to agree to a license (for example SuSE), then Opera can't be included, since:
Quote
You may not sell, rent, lease or sublicense the Software, without the explicit written consent of Opera Software ASA.
(bold mine)
So don't bet on it.
Title: Re: Free Opera, No More Registration Bullshit
Post by: xyle_one on 20 September 2005, 23:46
Proprietary does not equal evil.
Title: Re: Free Opera, No More Registration Bullshit
Post by: worker201 on 20 September 2005, 23:55
Quote from: xyle_one
Proprietary does not equal evil.


Of course not.  Opera is good software.  But I am Mozilla, and that's all there is to it.  I was pointing out the source-specific parts of the EULA so that Aloone_Jonez and PiratePenguin can go at it.

By the way, finding the Opera EULA at all was a pain in the ass.  Finding a copy of the Windows EULA is hard too.  But on GPL programs, it is easy - not to mention that the license is on the web to browse as well.  You would think it would be the other way around.
Title: Re: Free Opera, No More Registration Bullshit
Post by: Aloone_Jonez on 20 September 2005, 23:57
Quote from: piratePenguin
Yea, too bad.
There's always the mighty wget. I used to use it for downloading big files on dialup.

Why bother when Opera will do the job of two pieces of software?

Quote from: piratePenguin
http://kb.mozillazine.org/SessionSaver

Oh know you don't need any extentions with Opera.

Quote from: piratePenguin
What sucks about Firefox then?

It's inferior to Opera, less features mean you need to add extentions while Opera is smaller but still has more features.

Worker_201,
I'm sure they will be happy for them to distribute Opera, wow its going to be hard for them to seek permission, not all that'll be require is an email explaining how Opera will be bundled and the licence of the distro.
Title: Re: Free Opera, No More Registration Bullshit
Post by: skyman8081 on 22 September 2005, 07:30
then again worker:
Quote
YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE SOFTWARE IS NOT INTENDED FOR USE IN (I) ON-LINE CONTROL OF AIRCRAFT, AIR TRAFFIC, AIRCRAFT NAVIGATION OR AIRCRAFT COMMUNICATIONS; OR (II) IN THE DESIGN, CONSTRUCTION, OPERATION OR MAINTENANCE OF ANY NUCLEAR FACILITY.
I'm not so sure now....

If it isn't good for Airplanes or Nuclear Reactors, how good can it be? ;)
Title: Re: Free Opera, No More Registration Bullshit
Post by: Kintaro on 22 September 2005, 16:15
I think Linux distro's just might, seeing that they used to ship Netscape in the pre mozilla days.
Title: Re: Free Opera, No More Registration Bullshit
Post by: worker201 on 22 September 2005, 19:27
Quote from: skyman8081
then again worker: I'm not so sure now....

If it isn't good for Airplanes or Nuclear Reactors, how good can it be? ;)


I saw that, and I was wondering what sort of license has stuff like that in it?  I haven't read many licenses, I guess.  I find this shocking.  Are there people who would use Opera to control a nuclear reactor?  I doubt those things are .net yet!
Title: Re: Free Opera, No More Registration Bullshit
Post by: piratePenguin on 22 September 2005, 19:33
Quote from: worker201
Are there people who would use Opera to control a nuclear reactor?
No, you have to use Internet Explorer for that.

Just stick it on the reactor and crack it from anywhere!
Title: Re: Free Opera, No More Registration Bullshit
Post by: Aloone_Jonez on 22 September 2005, 22:46
Quote from: worker201
I'll continue to use Firefox, just because.

Just wondering, why?

Is it becuase you (like piratePenguin) dislike Opera's licence? If so why because you support Apple Mac OS X which is also closed source.

What do you have against Opera?

Why is Firefox so great?

What main advantages does it have over Firefox (apart from the licence of course)?
Title: Re: Free Opera, No More Registration Bullshit
Post by: worker201 on 22 September 2005, 23:02
As a financial supporter of the Mozilla project, it would be stupid of me to use another browser.  Additionally, I have been using Mozilla products for like 4 years now, and they have grown on me.  You know how it is, sometimes you just feel incredibly comfortable with something, it feels like home.  Opera is neat, but it doesn't really do anything that I am too impressed with - your specific complaints about the download manager have never been an issue for me, since I use a T1 line most of the time.

My browser sitch right now is crazy - I use Safari when I'm on the Mac.  In Linux, I use SeaMonkey for regular surfing and Firefox for porn browsing (some of those extensions are unbeatable).  Occasionally, just to make sure it's working, I run DeerPark too.

Eventually, if I come up with a neat idea, I would like to build some extensions for Firefox.  It's nice to know that the license allows me to do that.  But that's really the only way in which the license has a "real" effect on my choice of browser (it has all kinds of "fake" effects :D).