Stop Microsoft

All Things Microsoft => Microsoft Software => Topic started by: noob on 14 October 2005, 17:25

Title: had to post this
Post by: noob on 14 October 2005, 17:25


 The bit i like is highlighted red.


 

Designed for Microsoft Windows XP Logo

  Hardware (http://HELP=glossary.hlp%20TOPIC=hardware_def) and software products  displaying the Designed for Microsoft Windows XP logo have been tested  for compatibility with Microsoft Windows operating systems through use of  Microsoft-provided testing procedures. For the best performance, Microsoft  recommends using hardware products that display the Designed for Microsoft  Windows XP logo on the external packaging and on the device (http://HELP=glossary.hlp%20TOPIC=gls_device)  itself.

 (http://ms-its:NTArt.chm::/US1SysdmXPLogo.gif)  Software for hardware products with the Designed for Microsoft Windows  XP logo has a digital signature (http://HELP=glossary.hlp%20TOPIC=gls_digital_signature) from  Microsoft, indicating that the product was tested for compatibility with Windows  and has not been altered since testing. For the latest updates, including  security fixes, service packs, new Help files, and device drivers, see Windows Update (http://hcp://services/centers/update) in Help and Support  Center. You may also  want to contact the hardware vendor directly and ask for a device  driver (http://HELP=glossary.hlp%20TOPIC=gls_device_driver) that has met the Designed for Microsoft Windows XP logo  requirements. For more information, visit the Microsoft Windows  Logo Program (http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=346) (go to http://www.microsoft.com/ and  search for "Windows logo program") on the Microsoft Web  site.

  (http://ms-its:c:%5Cwindows%5Chelp%5Cntshared.chm::/warning.gif) Warning

 
Title: Re: had to post this
Post by: Orethrius on 14 October 2005, 22:57
...however, if you're using Linux, you may safely ignore this warning, and pretty much EVERYTHING ELSE we ever say.  :D
Title: Re: had to post this
Post by: Narf Man on 14 October 2005, 23:17
It's nice to see that I'm not the only person who thought the wording in that "warning" looked a little ominous.
Title: Re: had to post this
Post by: WMD on 15 October 2005, 01:36
Device drivers that install viruses...while I bet it can be done, it'd be much harder to program than just the typical "FREE CELEBRITY SCREENSAVERS.exe".
Title: Re: had to post this
Post by: noob on 15 October 2005, 10:34
well i have moved my server back to linux and my dekstop would follow, but the slight problem of being a gamer means i cant.
Title: Re: had to post this
Post by: toadlife on 15 October 2005, 19:56
What's the big deal. Drivers require admin permission and can be used as root kits.
Title: Re: had to post this
Post by: mobrien_12 on 15 October 2005, 21:37
My experience with MS signed drivers is that their stamp of approval is worthless.  I had a MSHQL signed driver that crippled a win 9x box long ago.  

This is just MS trying to control their customers lives more and more. Do they charge companies for the MSHQL certification?  

Can you see the day when MS tries to abuse this?  "Hmmm, Nvidia... your latest drivers include OpenGL.  You need to release DirectX only to earn our MSHQL signiture."
Title: Re: had to post this
Post by: WMD on 15 October 2005, 22:50
Quote from: mobrien_12
Can you see the day when MS tries to abuse this?  "Hmmm, Nvidia... your latest drivers include OpenGL.  You need to release DirectX only to earn our MSHQL signiture."

Better yet, "You're going to release Linux drivers too?  You really want that MSHQL certification?"
Title: Re: had to post this
Post by: piratePenguin on 15 October 2005, 23:20
Quote from: WMD
Better yet, "You're going to release Linux drivers too? You really want that MSHQL certification?"
"Err, no thanks. Now gimme a billion dollars or I'll alert the media."
Title: Re: had to post this
Post by: Aloone_Jonez on 15 October 2005, 23:40
LOL! I had this sort of message appear when I installed an old NT Cannon printer driver (there was no XP version) and it works with no problems. I think Windows users should ignore it too.
Title: Re: had to post this
Post by: Narf Man on 16 October 2005, 01:32
I live only 30 minuets from the M$ HQ, and I know several people who work at M$, so I get to hear rumors from time to time (most of what I hear is bull, but once in a while it pans out). Anyway, I have heard the rumor that upcoming versions of windows will only use MSHQL drivers, and ignore ones not certified for "stability reasons".

I hope that's not the case! I'm the tech guy for my family and I really don't want to fight the machine to make my uncle's Lexmark printer work.
Title: Re: had to post this
Post by: skyman8081 on 16 October 2005, 02:27
Quote from: Narf Man
Lexmark
That's your problem right there.  No need to blame MS for that one.
Title: Re: had to post this
Post by: Narf Man on 16 October 2005, 02:32
Pffft! Not my printer!

Talk to my uncle about that one. In my family, cheap=good (which usually ends up in headaches for me when x doesn't work).
Title: Re: had to post this
Post by: skyman8081 on 16 October 2005, 02:51
Quote from: Narf Man
Pffft! Not my problem!
fixt.
Title: Re: had to post this
Post by: WMD on 16 October 2005, 06:10
Quote from: skyman8081
That's your problem right there.  No need to blame MS for that one.

My Lexmark Z52, plugged into a Windows 95 box, "broke" two years ago.  A couple months ago, I plugged it into my Linux box, and, somehow, it started working (just needed new ink).

I've always loved that thing....
Title: Re: had to post this
Post by: noob on 16 October 2005, 12:06
drivers suck ass. linux has them, but atleast it works first time (in my experiance).
Title: Re: had to post this
Post by: Aloone_Jonez on 16 October 2005, 14:15
In my experiance Windows and Linux can both have problems with drivers. Linux drivers are often semi-functional and  Windows drivers are often semi-stable that's just the way it is.
Title: Re: had to post this
Post by: themacuser on 17 October 2005, 12:12
Saitek Cyborg 3D joystick: (real experience)
On a Mac: (mine) Plug it in and launch X-Plane. Enjoy your flight.

On Windows: (a friend's) Plug it in and launch X-Plane. Note that the joystick is not recognised. Put in the driver CD and be forced to listen to crappy music and watch some 1 minute flash demo about how good this software is. Watch the installer crash half way through the install. Restart and repeat. Try again and it works. Launch X-Plane and watch as the system BSODs. Restart and it BSODs again. Swap the joystick and the keyboard USB plugs. It works!? Fly for a few hours, but the joystick is slightly laggy. Unplug the keyboard and mouse, and it's fixed... but no keyboard/mouse.

Have someone cause another BSOD by tripping over the joystick cable, ripping it out of the sockey. Plug it back in and restart. Continue flying. Then unplug the joystick. Start up the machine later and it BSODed. Remove the drivers in safe mode. Then repeat this process next time you want to use the joystick. Oh, and apologise to the friend who'se computer you had to do this all on.
Title: Re: had to post this
Post by: noob on 17 October 2005, 18:17
microsoft are lame when it comes to stability. if a driver is written badly, let the driver crash, not the whole system.
Title: gurlax
Post by: Narf Man on 17 October 2005, 18:28
Quote from: noob
microsoft are lame when it comes to stability. if a driver is written badly, let the driver crash, not the whole system.

Sorry man... that makes too much sense. "Logical" isn't in the M$ vocabulary.
Title: Re: had to post this
Post by: Aloone_Jonez on 17 October 2005, 20:24
Quote from: noob
microsoft are lame when it comes to stability. if a driver is written badly, let the driver crash, not the whole system.

Duh bad Linux drivers can crash Linux to you know. Drivers run in ring 0 so a bad driver on any OS can bring down the entire system whether it be Linux Windows, BeOS or even BSD.
Title: Re: had to post this
Post by: piratePenguin on 17 October 2005, 20:39
Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
Duh bad Linux drivers can crash Linux to you know. Drivers run in ring 0 so a bad driver on any OS can bring down the entire system whether it be Linux Windows, BeOS or even BSD.
Not on the Hurd :p

EDIT: and with userspace drivers (which are getting more popular on GNU/Linux and I think there's some out there for FreeBSD and friends too).
Title: Re: had to post this
Post by: Aloone_Jonez on 17 October 2005, 21:01
How come the whole system crashed when my X driver fucked up then?

I suppose it does depend on the driver, I have a feeling that even Windows printer drivers run in user space as my system has never crashed due to a dodgy printer driver, it's just refused to print or printed garbled.
Title: Re: had to post this
Post by: piratePenguin on 17 October 2005, 22:04
But your X driver wasn't in ring 0, was it? (I don't quite understand this ring stuff (I have an idea, but that's basically it))
Title: Re: had to post this
Post by: Kintaro on 19 October 2005, 05:14
Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
How come the whole system crashed when my X driver fucked up then?

I suppose it does depend on the driver, I have a feeling that even Windows printer drivers run in user space as my system has never crashed due to a dodgy printer driver, it's just refused to print or printed garbled.


The whole system could have fucked up if it was related to AGPGART. It depends what and how it fucked up, its not all black boxes. What was the actual error?
Title: Re: had to post this
Post by: skyman8081 on 19 October 2005, 06:28
Quote from: piratePenguin
Not on the Hurd :p
I can see how a vaporware system can never crash. :-P
Title: Re: had to post this
Post by: WMD on 19 October 2005, 06:52
Quote from: skyman8081
I can see how a vaporware system can never crash. :-P

Hurd DOES exist, although not in a truly released state.  They just have snapshots, or whatever those Hurd people do.  You can download it right now (although you can't do all that much with it without compiling software out the ass, and even then)...
Title: Re: had to post this
Post by: Aloone_Jonez on 19 October 2005, 11:11
Quote from: kintaro
The whole system could have fucked up if it was related to AGPGART. It depends what and how it fucked up, its not all black boxes. What was the actual error?

I had changed my monitor from a crappy old 1024x768 CRT to a 1200x1600 TFT, I though it would still work with the lower resolution (Windows did) but when I booted to Vector Linux X started up as usual then after a couple of seconds it just locked up, so I rebooted with Knoppix and edited some configuration file (can't remember which one) to  change the driver to a generic VESA, I rebooted it worked. I was going to change the driver to a better one more suited to my graphics card but I ended up installing Ubuntu in the end. I'm thinking about changing again but I don't know what to try, I'd like something fairly small, preferible nom more than one CD.
Title: Re: had to post this
Post by: piratePenguin on 19 October 2005, 22:24
Quote from: WMD
You can download it right now (although you can't do all that much with it without compiling software out the ass, and even then)...
Well there's Debian GNU/Hurd (http://www.debian.org/ports/hurd/) and it should have everything you need (note: need) in the repositories.
I was using it alot a while back, but my (nvidia) network card doesn't work (only cards that work in linux 2.0 work, as gnumach took it's drivers from linux 2.0). They have some really really cool stuff going on.

There used to be a Gentoo GNU/Hurd distribution, but it didn't last long. Some Ubuntu guy wanted to release an Ubuntu GNU/Hurd distribution, but I doubt it'll happen. There's also talk of an official distribution release.

Checkout the livecd (http://www.superunprivileged.org/hurd/live-cd/), after reading a bit, if yer interested.