Author Topic: Firefox myths  (Read 12036 times)

H_TeXMeX_H

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Re: Firefox myths
« Reply #90 on: 23 June 2006, 18:44 »
Will ya stop feeding the troll ?

Aloone_Jonez

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Re: Firefox myths
« Reply #91 on: 23 June 2006, 22:25 »
He isn't a troll as he isn't posting this shit just to piss off people, he's posting it because he believes it to be true!

My beef isn't with what his Firefox myths page says, but with what it doesn't say.
This is not a Windows help forum, however please do feel free to sign up and agree or disagree with our views on Microsoft.

Oh and FUCKMicrosoft! :fu:

H_TeXMeX_H

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Re: Firefox myths
« Reply #92 on: 24 June 2006, 01:10 »
Ok then ... I think he's a troll, cuz he pisses me off, I can't even start to read his posts without feeling intense anger ... but, maybe it's just me. But, I can say one thing ... he is full of shit ! overflowing with it.

Mastertech

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Re: Firefox myths
« Reply #93 on: 24 June 2006, 01:34 »
Quote from: Canadian Lover
Even at the 128 level, a whole lot of stuff is ran from the page file, slowing everything down. Maby there's a reason everyone else recommends 256?
Is it? Has anyone here actually ever tried this instead of just guessing? People make all sorts of recommendations usually much higher claiming Windows will not be useable with less, pure BS. Yes more RAM is better but it has nothing to do with what Windows XP will run on. And don't confuse the requirements of XP with third party applications.

Quote from: piratePenguin
Oh so you can't think for yourself no?

EDIT: I sent them a feedback thing to see my post.
Irrelevant, I have yet to see them confirm it is a security exploit.

Quote from: piratePenguin
What a surprise!
Nothing to do with the Firefox Myths page.


Quote from: Lead Head
I've ran firfox on a 200Mhz Pentium running windows XP with 64MB of ram. It ran pretty damn well considering the outrageous specs of the machine.

EDIT: Ive run firefox on a 133Mhz Pentium running Win98 with 32MB of ram, even then it still ran better then IE on the 233Mhz Pentium running XP
Sure... Please provide documented reproduceable proof of your claims. I see this all the time people making unfounded claims.

Quote from: Canadian Lover
If IE is as safe as Firefox, why can I do this in IE?



(code actually loads onto the page, here's the link: http://www.openopen.org/old/ie/open-cd-ie.html)

It did nothing on my fully patched version of IE 6.

piratePenguin

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Re: Firefox myths
« Reply #94 on: 24 June 2006, 01:50 »
Quote from: Mastertech

Irrelevant, I have yet to see them confirm it is a security exploit.
Does my post describe a security vulnerability with Opera or not? Try thinking independently for once please.
Quote

Nothing to do with the Firefox Myths page.
So what?
"What you share with the world is what it keeps of you."
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a poem by my computer, Macintosh Vigilante
Macintosh amends a damned around the requested typewriter. Macintosh urges a scarce design. Macintosh postulates an autobiography. Macintosh tolls the solo variant. Why does a winter audience delay macintosh? The maker tosses macintosh. Beneath female suffers a double scum. How will a rat cube the heavier cricket? Macintosh calls a method. Can macintosh nest opposite the headache? Macintosh ties the wrong fairy. When can macintosh stem the land gang? Female aborts underneath macintosh. Inside macintosh waffles female. Next to macintosh worries a well.

Orethrius

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Re: Firefox myths
« Reply #95 on: 24 June 2006, 01:58 »
Quote from: piratePenguin
Does my post describe a security vulnerability with Opera or not? Try thinking independently for once please.

Actually, I agree with Mastertech here.  If it's not on Secunia, it can't be a real exploit.  You probably just imagined it.

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Mastertech

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Re: Firefox myths
« Reply #96 on: 24 June 2006, 02:34 »
Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
Your artical doesn't provide all the facts and thus doesn't allow the reader to make an informed decision about their choice of browser.
IT IT NOT SUPPOSED TO! Wake up. This is not a comparison guide. It is not a review of Firefox. It is only a Firefox Myths page. The information is provided so people do not fall for the Myths when making that decision. Every single Fanboy/Anti-Microsoft user is incapable of understanding this.

Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
The I suggest you read the US CERT article again.
I've read it. In recommendations like this that is because ActiveX can be used to exploit the vulnerability NOT because the vulnerability is due to ActiveX.

Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
But that doesn't stop it becoming re-enabled.
You can say that for any setting. But SP2 provides a better solution.

Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
Of course it's rellevant, you're debunking myths about Firefox right?
No it is NOT. IE's security and Opera's in the context of the Myth "Firefox is Secure" are both irrelevant.

Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
Firefox is a web browser so why is it not rellevant to compare it to another web browser like Opera? You've already compared it to Internet Explorer.
This is NOT a comparison guide. Just because certain Myths use comparisons does not change this fact. The page only debunks Myths. I have not compared it to IE in the sense of a comparison guide. I have stated Myths that just so happen to be comparisons. That is the nature of Firefox Myths. Some of the Myths people spread are incorrect comparisons with misinformation.

Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
You need to make sure your readers understand that security is relative, and it's a fact that Internet Explorer is insecure relative to Firefox which is insecure relative to Opera.
This isn't a Browser security page. It isn't a comparison page. Regardless both IE and Firefox are insecure. Nothing is relative about it. This page is a Firefox Myths page for the 5000 time.

Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
I'm not making any excuses - I'm merely filling in the gaps.
No you are making clear excuses. You have to as do all the Firefox Fanboys and Anti-Microsoft users. I don't make excuses.

Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
Yes does.
Are you kidding me? Your emotional reasoning for IE and standards has absolutely nothing to do with Firefox Myths. It is your attempt to pile on the excuses. TOO BAD. I will NEVER add excuses period.

Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
Have you ever tested Firefox on hardware lower than the minimum requirements? If so you'll find that it actually works, these are recommended minimum requirements not absolute minimum requirements like MS states for it's products.
I have tested everything I claim. FF's performance severly declines below those requirements. Mozilla clearly states they are the minimum and also includes recommended requirements. Microsoft includes no mention of the word absolute,

Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
What you've stated is true, Microsoft's minimum requirements are just that minimum requirements but some other software vendors bais their minimum requirements to is required to give reasonable performance.
Microsoft does as well.

Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
And you can't understand the fact that Firefox is more secure than Microsoft Internet Explorer.
According to the current vulnerability count it is slightly more secure but still clearly insecure. Again this is irrelevant to the Firefox Myths page.

Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
Wait a second, even US CERT recommends you should use a diffenent browser!
This is a common recommendation by security companies during the time any critical vulnerability for any browser is unpatched.

Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
Of course it is and it's exactly why your page totally blows. You can't discuss page rendering and compatability without mentioning standards support which very important.
That was in response to the Unix vulnerability Distro statement. Anyway to reply to this new statement. Page Compatibility has little to do with W3C standards support since so many pages do not conform to W3C standards. This is one of the biggest things clueless people do not get. IE is the standard of which many pages are coded.

Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
[list=1]
  • Apart from the start-up speed the other differences are neglidgable.
  • These tests don't feature web pages containing a variety of content i.e. each test just looks a one type of content.
  • Not in my experiance, for example Firefox renders hotmail faster than IE, Firefox renders this forum faster than IE.
  • It doesn't even mention download speed.

* They are clearly faster in IE. Either way it debunks the Myth

* That is the only way to get an idea how a browser is faster. Since FF is faster in only script speed a test full of scripts would make FF look like it is faster when it is clearly not.

* Where is your documented reproduceable proof of this. Every Firefox Fanboy/Anti-Microsoft user makes these claims yet provides NO proof.

* Download speed of what? A file? That has nothing to do with the browser. It has to do with your bandwidth limit of your internet connection.

Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
Well you've proved to me that IE is actually worse than I thought it was before I read your post!
No it just proves Opera is well coded and the nonsense about components of IE loading at Windows startup is irrelevant.

Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
So what?

You quite rightly raise the point that Firefox doesn't pass the Acid2 test, well done! But wouldn't it be more fair to compare it to IE as well as Opera?

Wouldn't that be providing the reader with more relevant information so they can make a more informed choice?

It's one of those relative things again, something you don't seem to understand.
What part of FIREFOX MYTHS IS NOT A COMPARISON GUIDE do you not comprehend? There is no Myth IE passes this test and if there was it would not be on the Firefox Myths page. You want to add in excuses that are irrelevant.

Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
I'm not making any excuses.
Yes you are. You keep making comparisons to IE with the attempt to excuse Firefox any time a Firefox Myth is debunked.

Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
But you're neglecting the all important standards debate again - something very important if you want your reader to become more educated.
This is not s page that debates the relevancy of standards. It debunks Firefox Myths. The reaon you think this has anything to do with the page is because you don't understand how to state something without including excuses.

Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
Bullshit, Mac OS is both easy to use and secure, ease of use and security can go hand in hand but obviously Microsoft has lead you to believe otherwise, I pitty you.
I really don't care, honestly I don't have any security problems with Windows or IE. This debate has nothing to do with the Firefox Myths page.

Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
On the contrary, bussinesses should continiously evaluate different products and use the one that suits them best - they might be able to make considerable savings.
Again off topic. Businesses that actually stay in business will always use the most reliable and compatible solution to what they are using. Which in this case is Microsoft Office. Compatibility issues cost them money.

Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
I agree, and if you have money to spare there's always other alternatives like Star Office and Corel Office.
Considering Star Office is based on Open Office and I the main reasons to use Microsoft are compatibility and ease of use I do not believe Corel has much of a chance.

H_TeXMeX_H

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Re: Firefox myths
« Reply #97 on: 24 June 2006, 02:44 »
All I can say is that your posts are truly infused with logic oh great Mastertech ... I can see the light now ...

I was gotta quote some of your logic, but I realized that I'd have to quote everything, cuz it's pure logic ... the purest I've seen in a while.

piratePenguin

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Re: Firefox myths
« Reply #98 on: 24 June 2006, 02:47 »
Quote from: H_TeXMeX_H
All I can say is that your posts are truly infused with logic oh great Mastertech ... I can see the light now ...

I was gotta quote some of your logic, but I realized that I'd have to quote everything, cuz it's pure logic ... the purest I've seen in a while.
He's a lean, mean, logic machine!
"What you share with the world is what it keeps of you."
 - Noah And The Whale: Give a little love



a poem by my computer, Macintosh Vigilante
Macintosh amends a damned around the requested typewriter. Macintosh urges a scarce design. Macintosh postulates an autobiography. Macintosh tolls the solo variant. Why does a winter audience delay macintosh? The maker tosses macintosh. Beneath female suffers a double scum. How will a rat cube the heavier cricket? Macintosh calls a method. Can macintosh nest opposite the headache? Macintosh ties the wrong fairy. When can macintosh stem the land gang? Female aborts underneath macintosh. Inside macintosh waffles female. Next to macintosh worries a well.

Lead Head

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Re: Firefox myths
« Reply #99 on: 24 June 2006, 02:55 »
Quote from: Mastertech

Sure... Please provide documented reproduceable proof of your claims. I see this all the time people making unfounded claims.


/Sighs...your actually gonna make me dig up a socket 7 mobo, a pentium , some SD-RAM and a hard drive just to prove it..? I dont even have another PSU...Even test it yourself, FIREFOX WILL RUN A 133Mhz pentium w/ win98 fairly well.
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Mastertech

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Re: Firefox myths
« Reply #100 on: 24 June 2006, 03:06 »
Oh it will probably run but so will IE and there is no proof of the ridiculous claims that on that Hardware the memory leaking (I mean memory caching) Firefox will run better than IE.

Lead Head

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Re: Firefox myths
« Reply #101 on: 24 June 2006, 06:42 »
Quote from: Mastertech
Oh it will probably run but so will IE and there is no proof of the ridiculous claims that on that Hardware the memory leaking (I mean memory caching) Firefox will run better than IE.

Herm...lets see here, firefox adjust's how much memory it uses to cache based on your total systems mem.
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Dark_Me

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Re: Firefox myths
« Reply #102 on: 24 June 2006, 07:06 »
Quote
I have tested everything I claim. FF's performance severly declines below those requirements. Mozilla clearly states they are the minimum and also includes recommended requirements. Microsoft includes no mention of the word absolute,

Quote
Sure... Please provide documented reproduceable proof of your claims. I see this all the time people making unfounded claims.

You ask everyone else to prove their claims but provide no proof of yours.
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Orethrius

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Re: Firefox myths
« Reply #103 on: 24 June 2006, 07:32 »
Quote from: Dark_Me
You ask everyone else to prove their claims but provide no proof of yours.


Oh leave him alone already, he's more than earned his stay in our Pity Parlour.  Having said that, I find it rather disturbing that one man can be so convinced of his own self-worth that everybody else is considered to be next to scum - requiring others to provide proof of their standpoints without sufficiently  establishing his own first.  Let those who live in glass houses be the first to throw stones, I say.

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Aloone_Jonez

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Re: Firefox myths
« Reply #104 on: 24 June 2006, 15:45 »
Quote from: Mastertech
IT IT NOT SUPPOSED TO! Wake up. This is not a comparison guide.


This is the biggest problem with your page.

If it isn't supposed to be a comparison guide then why do you compare Firefox to other browsers, even when they myth you're addressing isn't comparative?

For example:

Quote
Acid 2 Browser Test

Myth - "Firefox fully supports the most important W3C Standards"


You then compare it to Opera, but not Internet Explorer

Quote
It is not a review of Firefox. It is only a Firefox Myths page. The information is provided so people do not fall for the Myths when making that decision.

Yet you ingnore the fact that in order for the reader to make an informed decision it needs to be a comparison guide.



Quote
Every single Fanboy/Anti-Microsoft user is incapable of understanding this.

Don't gerneralise, I understand this the only thing is it doesn't inform the reader of all the facts.

Quote
I've read it. In recommendations like this that is because ActiveX can be used to exploit the vulnerability NOT because the vulnerability is due to ActiveX.

Either way, the vunerability can't be exploited it ActiveX is disabled.

Quote
No it is NOT. IE's security and Opera's in the context of the Myth "Firefox is Secure" are both irrelevant.

No because you only make comparasons when it suits you.

Quote
This is NOT a comparison guide.

It is but only when it backs up your arguement.

Quote
Just because certain Myths use comparisons does not change this fact.

Read the above.

Quote
The page only debunks Myths.

Also comparing Firefox with other browsers when it suits you.

Quote
I have not compared it to IE in the sense of a comparison guide.

No because that would make IE look bad, oh sorry you only compare it on the points where IE is slightly stronger, and that's when it's convenient for you of course.

Quote
I have stated Myths that just so happen to be comparisons. That is the nature of Firefox Myths. Some of the Myths people spread are incorrect comparisons with misinformation.

And you've also made comparisons when dealing with those that aren't, but that's only when it suits you.


Quote
According to the current vulnerability count it is slightly more secure but still clearly insecure. Again this is irrelevant to the Firefox Myths page.

Alright then how is Opera bieng the most secure browser relevant to your Firefox myths page? Yet you've included it, why?

Quote
This is a common recommendation by security companies during the time any critical vulnerability for any browser is unpatched.

Go on, show me a page from a respected security body that recommends you shouldn't use Firefox.

Quote
I have tested everything I claim. FF's performance severly declines below those requirements. Mozilla clearly states they are the minimum and also includes recommended requirements. Microsoft includes no mention of the word absolute,

Microsoft does as well.


Bullshit!

From the same source as your site:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/ie6/evaluation/sysreqs/default.mspx

Quote
Windows XP:
32 MB of RAM minimum
Full install size: 12 MB


However XP requires a minimum of 64MB of RAM!

Quote
Page Compatibility has little to do with W3C standards support since so many pages do not conform to W3C standards. This is one of the biggest things clueless people do not get. IE is the standard of which many pages are coded.

Which desrves some explaination if you want your reader to be informed.

Quote
* Download speed of what? A file? That has nothing to do with the browser. It has to do with your bandwidth limit of your internet connection.

And your browser.

Quote
No it just proves Opera is well coded and the nonsense about components of IE loading at Windows startup is irrelevant.

True it does prove how well Opera is coded and yes the IE components are loaded at startup but it isn't the fastet starting browser - there's no excuse for that.

Quote
What part of FIREFOX MYTHS IS NOT A COMPARISON GUIDE do you not comprehend?

Well you obviously don't understand that youself since you make comparisons totally irrelevant to Fierfox myths, when it suits you of course.

Conclusion
You're clearly a pro-IE person (alright Avant but it still uses IE's core). You're sick of hearing various myths spread about by misinformed Firefox supporters and in a bid to readdress the ballance you've written a page to debunk these. Being an IE supporter you've biased  your page to support your view by making comparasons when they back-up your arguement and ignoring the ones that don't.
This is not a Windows help forum, however please do feel free to sign up and agree or disagree with our views on Microsoft.

Oh and FUCKMicrosoft! :fu: