Author Topic: Distrust tax  (Read 6351 times)

Aloone_Jonez

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Re: Distrust tax
« Reply #15 on: 14 December 2009, 14:09 »
ReactOS has similar memory requirements to XP because it has to effectively emulate XP.

I think there should also be a project to help Linux use Windows printer and scanner drivers using a wrapper. I'm sure it's possible as it's already been done with Wi-Fi and even the NTFS file system driver. Enabling Linux to use more Windows drivers would help combat the lack of hard ware support in some areas.

Quote
Fuck FreeDOS for being too old.
I wouldn't say that, FreeDOS already has a home on my PC under DOSEmu which can run most DOS games and Windows 3.1 faster than DOSBox.

EDIT:
Here's a screen shot.

There seems to be a bug which causes graphics to be overwritten if a window is placed over another window which is being updated.

Installing Inkscape took about five hours to complete and it doesn't even work, clicking on the icon doesn't do anything no error, no BSOD nothing.

ReactOS has a long way to go.
« Last Edit: 14 December 2009, 17:25 by Aloone_Jonez »
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reactosguy

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Re: Distrust tax
« Reply #16 on: 14 December 2009, 22:02 »
Wow, ReactOS has a lot of glitches.


If it takes a long time for them to release the software, why not rework an LXDE esque GUI and simplify it?

davidnix71

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Re: Distrust tax
« Reply #17 on: 15 December 2009, 01:04 »
Worker, you can get XP with the expensive versions of 7 if your chipset supports virtualization.
http://www.petri.co.il/installing-windows-xpm-on-windows-7.htm

worker201

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Re: Distrust tax
« Reply #18 on: 15 December 2009, 05:15 »
^ Or I could pay $80 and install Windows XP virtually on my Mac.  According to live reports, ArcGIS Desktop 9.2 runs better on a Mac running Parallels and Windows XP than it does on Windows Vista or Windows 7.  Proving once again that the best PC to run Windows is a Mac.

Calum

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Re: Distrust tax
« Reply #19 on: 24 December 2009, 12:29 »
hmm, the main issue for me is that buyers of a computer set (ie: computer plus all the peripherals, software together etc) should always be given the choice of NOT paying for the software. ie: if i buy a computer, i do NOT want to pay for a copy of MS Windows on a new PC for example, because i am likely to just wipe it off the drive anyway.

re: FreeDOS and Linux preinstalled, yes, it's a free country, what the market will bear etc, but here's what i think: any linux user should be able and willing to install it him/herself anyway, so getting linux preinstalled is not helpful. Controversial, possibly, but in my opinion computer users need to be more informed than the average windoid. If you can't even install the system yourself, what with the easy peasy installers they have now, then you probably shouldn't be allowed near a computer unsupervised anyway (let alone with an open wallet!)
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Aloone_Jonez

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Re: Distrust tax
« Reply #20 on: 24 December 2009, 14:42 »
I agree with what you're saying in principle: no one should have to pay for an operating system they're not going to use.

However, computers have always shipped with an OS pre-installed, being able to choose is a relatively new thing. Historically the OS was installed on ROM so the user couldn't modify it or install a new OS, it's only since hard drives became people have people had that luxury.

If you feel that strongly about wanting to buy a PC without Windows installed then why don't you just build your own?

The advantage of building your own Linux PC is you can choose hardware that will give you the best performance under Linux.
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_ZeroBeta

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Re: Distrust tax
« Reply #21 on: 26 December 2009, 21:46 »
Apart from video games and the security software on some of my USB keys, there's no reason for me to actually have Windows installed (one of my hard drive's partitions has a paid version of Linux installed in it). The only way you could escape this tax is to take the shipped copy of Windows back for a refund. But if you're an inexperienced user who requires Windows for your software, say, games, MS Office and what have you, where does that leave you?
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Aloone_Jonez

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Re: Distrust tax
« Reply #22 on: 26 December 2009, 21:55 »
MS Office can be easily replaced with OpenOffice.org.

I'm not sure if you can take just Windows back for a refund. I think that you either get refunded for the whole PC or keep it.

It's like saying "I bought my PC and am happy with everything apart from the monitor, can I please have a refund for the monitor and nothing else?"
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_ZeroBeta

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Re: Distrust tax
« Reply #23 on: 26 December 2009, 22:08 »
I thought it was possible to do this if you refused to accept the EULA, at least, if it has not actually been installed for you before buying the system. OpenOffice may be a good alternative (and I use it on a regular basis), but a lot of students and businesses still rely on Microsoft Office for their day-to-day needs.

I can see your point, but I always thought that you could just take the shipped copy of Windows back if you didn't want to use it. I guess it varies between retailers.
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Calum

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Re: Distrust tax
« Reply #24 on: 29 December 2009, 15:59 »
no, it's a terms and conditions thing, not a retailer thing. in principle, you can get a refund directly from microsoft, however they will try everything to delay this and put you off in practice, or so i have heard in previous years on this board from other users.

re: being unwittingly forced to pay for an O/S, the O/S is not equivalent to a hardware part, you might need to update the O/S many times over the lifetime of the computer (or you may want to). Software is not tangible, it is intellectual goods, unlike any hardware component.

re: building your own PC, that was fine back in the days when this was actually cheaper, but now it isn't. It's more expensive and it's more hassle. Plus, the door's closed for this when it comes to laptops. Still, i suppose the "don't like it? do it yourself!" argument is what i had started to get at, but i generally think it should be made easier, ie: give the customer what they actually want, not what they have been told they want. I mean this isn't a new issue. Since i have been using computers in my own home (about ten years) the preinstalled O/S ripoff has been totally normal. Hard drives in computers was a new thing in the early-mid nineties, it's fifteen years later now, and that's being charitable. The only reason more O/S choice isn't the norm is that the majority of home computer owners (ie: they are admins who think of themselves as users, if that) are perfectly willing to take whatever they're given (the latest MS bloatware at high cost) and the rest of us have to deal with the fallout.
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Aloone_Jonez

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Re: Distrust tax
« Reply #25 on: 31 December 2009, 23:49 »
Maybe I was wrong earlier.

The EULA states that the software is separate from the hardware and you are entitled to a refund.

I've done a bit of research on the matter.
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7040
http://www.linux.com/archive/articles/59381
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_refund

I agree in principle, it seems silly to pay for an operating system you don't want and are never going to use.

It's probably worth a try complaining and demanding a refund but I wouldn't bother going to court over it.

I can cope with having to pay for Windows because it might be useful in a VM or to improve WINE compatibility. It's all the other bullshit like MS Works that would annoy me more than anything else. My current PC came with MS Works which was immediately removed and replaced with OpenOffice.org.

EDIT:
I've found a reasonable laptop without any software installed. I don't know how Linux compatible it is because they recommend genuine MS software, unless that's just a statement to discourage piracy.
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/173882

If you're interested, check out the forum or give them a call.
http://forums.ebuyer.com/showthread.php?t=51208
« Last Edit: 31 December 2009, 23:54 by Aloone_Jonez »
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piratePenguin

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Re: Distrust tax
« Reply #26 on: 2 January 2010, 03:52 »
Is dell still selling Ubuntu-loaded computers?
I don't understand why that hasn't exploded to their full range of home computers. Is it early days or was it a flop in the end?
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piratePenguin

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Re: Distrust tax
« Reply #27 on: 2 January 2010, 03:56 »
random notes:

JooJoo looks sexy.

Google Chromium OS has high potential to change how we use computers imo, in years to come whos to say it wont be profitable for google to GIVE (not even rent) computers away? So that more people will use the web = more google users.
"What you share with the world is what it keeps of you."
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a poem by my computer, Macintosh Vigilante
Macintosh amends a damned around the requested typewriter. Macintosh urges a scarce design. Macintosh postulates an autobiography. Macintosh tolls the solo variant. Why does a winter audience delay macintosh? The maker tosses macintosh. Beneath female suffers a double scum. How will a rat cube the heavier cricket? Macintosh calls a method. Can macintosh nest opposite the headache? Macintosh ties the wrong fairy. When can macintosh stem the land gang? Female aborts underneath macintosh. Inside macintosh waffles female. Next to macintosh worries a well.

Aloone_Jonez

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Re: Distrust tax
« Reply #28 on: 2 January 2010, 14:49 »
I think consumer choice is a factor: most people want Windows pre-installed, believe it or not. Netbooks started to be sold with Linux pre-installed but people wanted Widows and Microsoft was happy to sell it as a reduced price for installing on low-spec. hardware.

The trouble is, there are plenty of plenty of people who want to buy computers without an operating system so they can install their own whether it be Linux, BSD or the Windows version of their choice.

I don't know whether Dell still offer a Linux option but it was offered on their low-end machines if I remember correctly so maybe it wasn't very popular?

The should offer the same machine with whatever OS the consumer wants, with the software they want, even if the majority of people choose Windows and MS Office.

I do agree that Microsoft has put unfair pressure on hardware manufacturers not to sell computers without an operating system, even though I agree that doing so would increase piracy. I don't think that buying a computer should also mean that you have to buy certain software. I think manufactures should ship with OpenOffice.org rather than MS Works more, I know that this is already done, my local computer shop already does this.

Maybe Google could give away refurbished PCs  with their operating system pre-installed?

I don't think renting is a sane option because the cost of support could prove probative. Can you seriously imagine renting a PC to people who are clueless?
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Lead Head

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Re: Distrust tax
« Reply #29 on: 2 January 2010, 17:10 »
It has been profitable in the past to "give" new computers away, but it usually entails locking the person in some kind of deal, like they have to keep the computer for X years and have to use the ISP that the company that sold them the computer told them to use. Obviously that ISP gave them kickbacks, which allowed them to give away the computers. I believe these PCs came pre-loaded with a ton of junk too, more so then your average Dell or HP.

My only issue with Chrome OS as far as I can tell, is that it is completely dependent on having a fast internet connection, and well is dependent on being connected to the internet in the first place - which would not work for me.

Apparently these Dell systems are the only ones that you can get Ubuntu with. http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/linux_3x?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs Although I had to do quite a bit of digging to find them.

Edit: What the hell, if I go to the Dell main site, click Studio XPS 13, there is no option at all for Ubuntu. For Ubuntu to be available on the XPS 13, I seem to have to go through that special Ubuntu portal. Hilariously enough, it says "Dell Recommends Windows 7" on the Ubuntu page too.
« Last Edit: 2 January 2010, 17:14 by Lead Head »
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