Does anyone has Microsoft Visual C++ ?

[foobar]

In two years i will probably be goin ' to a school where you can learn to become an admin.
Methinks i'll go buy me one of those fuckmicrosoft.com tshirts for when i go to that school ...  

If they will try to shove any m$ crap through my throat i will just laugh at them and download something open source ....

[DC]

quote:Originally posted by VoidMain:
But I suggest you get GCC from

I don't want to bitch about GCC or anything, it's damned decent at what it does. But it is NO replacement for Visual C++. Emacs + GCC isn't either (it's more usefull though, writing C with echo isn't nice).

What is misses is a GUI and window-designer. Now, if you need that is another question - if you don't, GCC is just fine - but those are main parts of Visual C++.

QT Designer and Kdevelop are 2 replacements for this, by the way. There are probably more.

My school (well, univerity) will use Unix (Solaris) next year   . Well, the Beta part will (Alpha and Gamma parts won't, they have Win, but I study physics). I had to use Win @ school for the last 3 years (DOS before that    ).
Then again, I won't actually learn about computers there (well, I probably will - but that's not what I'm supposed to do there).

Mr. Metasyntactic variable: if they teach MS @ school, you can't just 'shove [it] through [your] throat and download something open source'. Not if you want to get the degree that is.

[Refalm]

Microsoft's new programming language is called: "Microsoft Visual C# .NET" and before that they released the new SDK for "Microsoft ADO .NET".

I have the same problem you guys have. I signed up for an ICT school (ROC MBO, for who's really interested) and I have to learn Microsoft Visual Basic there.
I'm betting that I have to learn Visual C# .NET in a few years... hell, what survival change do I have in the IT world when I can only programme in Visual C# .NET and Visual Basic?
None... man, I'm going to learn real programming languages which does me good, like C++, JAVA, Perl, PHP etc so I don't have complaining custumors who say that my "automated" scripts crash everytime they try to do anything.

[rtgwbmsr]

In 2004 all New York State high schools will change AP Computer science to Javascript classes, instead of the current C++ classes. Someone, somewhere in NY hates M$...

[jtpenrod]

quote:I don't want to bitch about GCC or anything, it's damned decent at what it does. But it is NO replacement for Visual C++. Emacs + GCC isn't either (it's more usefull though, writing C with echo isn't nice).

What is misses is a GUI and window-designer. Now, if you need that is another question - if you don't, GCC is just fine - but those are main parts of Visual C++.

QT Designer and Kdevelop are 2 replacements for this, by the way. There are probably more.

There are a couple of good window designers out there. Qt for KDE and Glade for GNOME. Up till now, Qt was somewhat brain dead as a designer in that all you could do with it was create dialogs, wizards, tabbed dialogs, but not main windows with menus, tool bars, and status bars - these had to be hand coded. The latest version of Qt has corrected this flaw. Glade has always been pretty slick for those writing GNOME apps. However, what you won't find is something that is tightly integrated, such as Visual C++. The UNIX programming aids sacrifice the convenience of this tight integration in favor of cross-platform perfromance. Many of the UNIX programming aids and tool kits, such as Qt, FOX, or wxWindows, can be used to write apps for M$ Windows. Try writing a Linux app with Visual C++ and see how far you get    

Furthermore, if you're serious about learning programming, the best place to learn is on a UNIX system. The tightly integrated development aids that come with Winders are more "convenient", but you won't learn very much from using them. These dumbed down development environments lead to dumbed down developers. After all, how else to explain how some M$ apps have up to 2000% more code in them than they really need? (See the Feature Article for details)
________________________________________

Live Free or Die: Linux

There: now you'll never have to look at those dirty Windows anymore
--Daffy Duck  

[voidmain]

jt, well said.  Don't really need to say much more other than VC++ sucks and GCC is the only way...

[badkarma]

quote:Originally posted by Refalm:
Microsoft's new programming language is called: "Microsoft Visual C# .NET" and before that they released the new SDK for "Microsoft ADO .NET".

I have the same problem you guys have. I signed up for an ICT school (ROC MBO, for who's really interested) and I have to learn Microsoft Visual Basic there.
I'm betting that I have to learn Visual C# .NET in a few years... hell, what survival change do I have in the IT world when I can only programme in Visual C# .NET and Visual Basic?
None... man, I'm going to learn real programming languages which does me good, like C++, JAVA, Perl, PHP etc so I don't have complaining custumors who say that my "automated" scripts crash everytime they try to do anything.

sorry man but ROC MBO informatica is pathetic, we have one interm (stagiere) here from there and he had to unlearn practically everything he had learned. They should call it the M$ farm btw .....

skip MBO, get your HAVO diploma and go to a HBO.....

[ August 05, 2002: Message edited by: BadKarma ]

[badkarma]

quote:Originally posted by jtpenrod:
However, what you won't find is something that is tightly integrated, such as Visual C++.

Borland will release Kylix 3.0 open edition for linux soon, with C++ support. Not that I'm a big fan of borland products, but this seemed pretty interesting to me. Going to check it out when they actually release it  

[ims27_8]

I'm in first year uni doing IT / microelectronic engineering, and at the moment we're doing Java. I did VB at hight school for about a week (and i only went to 1 class   ) but we also did heaps on microsoft access, which is how I got my job. All you anti-microsoft people would love this job - the company makes database management software, basic design is done in access 2000, then it's converted to  VB6, and then eventually it's going to go to .net (I can't believe that thing takes up 4 DVD's)

[Kintaro]

quote:Originally posted by beltorak0:
what's next? add a bunch of services, a "TravelTicket" that remembers all personal info on your local machine, official web based linux-anti-spam-mail, html developer studio (enforcing standards compliance), etc etc etc, and call it ".ORG"?

   

-t.

Have you not heard of .GNU??? I just did browsing on www.gnu.org
http://dotgnu.info/

Thats Linux .GNU

[choasforages]

yup portablie .net, i really like the mono .net project, the opensource community is going to beat microsoft at creating .net i belive, just look at qt# and gtk#, for somereason, i think that microsoft is a bit behind on that one. and the qt, and gtk comunitys will just have anohter languger to go at each other with.

[Refalm]

quote:BadKarma: skip MBO, get your HAVO diploma and go to a HBO.....

No I couldn't... I had trouble finnishing MAVO already, and HAVO seems too difficult anyways...

Do you have some advise of how I can do better than my ROC teachers? (the failures of your stagaire can be very helpfull to me)

[ August 12, 2002: Message edited by: Refalm ]

[slave]

Visual Studio .NET is a dream and well worth the money.  Glade is a punk program for GNOME fantastics  and Kdevelop is slow (dammit QT period is slow)

[Refalm]

quote:Windows XP User #5225982375: Visual Studio .NET is a dream and well worth the money.

The only in Visual Studio .NET programmes I've seen are meanth for cracking, flooding, making trojans...

Nice programmes to play with, none of them are really serious.

[badkarma]

quote:No I couldn't... I had trouble finnishing MAVO already, and HAVO seems too difficult anyways...

:-/

HAVO was a no brainer for me. I flunked once in second grade (can't remember why, dont want to either). But I did absolutely nothing for 6 years but showing up. Homework? What's that? And even the showing up part faded away. My absence in my graduation year totals up to at least 1/5th of the year (I wasn't at school at least once a week) but they couldn't expell me or anything because my grades didn't suffer    

The look on all the teachers faeces errr faces when I walked away with my diploma was worth a million bucks ...

 

quote:
Do you have some advise of how I can do better than my ROC teachers? (the failures of your stagaire can be very helpfull to me)

From what I observed it's nigh on impossible to fail (unless you are a complete retard). Our (stagiare) learned more in 2.5 months with us then in 2 years of school.

I can only judge according to what others have told me though, I've never been there myself. I saw some course material from our (stagiare) and I basically laughed my ass off at how easy it was.

I guess it all depends on what you want though... if you aspire a programming job, don't go there, period. If you want to administer windowze boxes then go there. If you want to have a basic diploma and learn stuff on your own time then go there.

I don't want to tell you not to go to school but if you ask my opinion it's highly overrated. You can learn a lot more practical stuff a lot faster by doing it instead of theorizing about it (this more reflects me on a HBO informatica though, there is not much theorizing done on a MBO informatica    ).

phew ... long post, I'm all done now    

NOTE:

I thought the correct english word for stagiare was interm, but according to kdict interm is no english word and I seem to have misplaced my dictionary  

[ August 12, 2002: Message edited by: BadKarma ]