Author Topic: Is it just me...  (Read 5357 times)

Zombie9920

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Is it just me...
« Reply #45 on: 27 February 2002, 20:44 »
Name calling is alright, editing peoples' posts to make them look bad is lame.

Ha, verbal flaming is actually quite fun sometimes. ;P

voidmain

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« Reply #46 on: 27 February 2002, 22:45 »
quote:
Originally posted by Zombie9920:
Name calling is alright, editing peoples' posts to make them look bad is lame.

Ha, verbal flaming is actually quite fun sometimes. ;P



I agree that it is pretty lame, but funny.  And besides, sticking up for MS is just as bad as what the post was changed to.  I don't think that Webmaster is the *only* person who can edit the posts. If he has any moderators assigned, they would be able to edit it, and of course the person(s) that are hosting the site could surely modify anything.  It's not a good feeling though, like when someone impersonated me and wrote a bunch of crap.

[ February 27, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]

Someone please remove this account. Thanks...

Gonusto

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« Reply #47 on: 28 February 2002, 01:11 »
Zombie9920 -

I don't know about anybody else, but I visit this site because I'm frustrated.  To be more specific, I'm frustrated with Microsoft . . . frustrated with thier operating system,  frustrated with their business practices, frustrated with their total lack of ethics.  And because I'm frustrated (as well as angry) with Microsoft, I don't come to a site named www.fuckmicrosoft.com to hear people praise them!  Consequently, anybody who does come here praising Microsoft poses a very convient target.  Don't blame me for putting yourself in a position to get flamed.

Who are you trying to convince anyways?  If you haven't been able to tell from the site name and its mission statement (not to mention the vast majority of the posts), this is a site against Microsoft.  Thus its safe to assume that the majority of people who frequent this site are opposed to Microsoft as well.  Now, considering the monopoly that Microsoft has, it is also safe to assume that almost everybody (who uses computers) has had some kind of interaction with some version of Windows.  Conversely, because Microsoft has such a monopoly, it is also safe to assume that it is unlikely that most people have tried an operating system other than Windows.  Therefore it is almost impossible for you to accurately state that the people at this forum are closed-minded, since (as we established earlier) almost everybody has used Windows to some extent, thus giving them the appropriate background with which to say "Windows blows!"  If anybody is closed-minded, it is the die hard Windows fans, since as we (also) established,  the majority of them have have probably not tried an alternate operating system, meaning that they lack the appropriate knowledge with which to say "Everything else sucks!"

And if you happen to be someone that has tried an alternate operating system and opted to return to Windows, then fine.  You're entitled to your opinion.  But don't forget so is everyone else.  As we concluded earlier, the *majority* of people who frequent this site already have a grudge with Microsoft and that their opinions can hardly be considered uninformed.  So why are you even bothering to try and change their minds?  They obvioiusly already have them made up.  Which returns us to my unanswered question: "Who are you trying to convince anyways?"  I think you're trying to convince yourself that Windows is great, because believing otherwise would mean that you've made a terrible mistake.  And we know how hard of a time most people have admitting their mistakes . . . but that's just my opinion.

So I'm proposing a solution.  You stop advocating Microsoft and we'll stop calling you names.  Easy as that.  And if you still feel like contributing to this site, then why don't you stick to helping people who are having problems Windows (and what ever operating systems you may have a knowledge of)?

On a different note, while the editing of your post was a bit tasteless, it was extremely funny.        And like I said earlier, when you come to a site opposed to Microsoft and proceed to shower them with praise, you're just asking to get flamed (amongst other things).  Even though I had nothing to do with it, my sincerest apologies for what happened.


-Gonusto

[ February 27, 2002: Message edited by: Gonusto ]


Calum

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« Reply #48 on: 28 February 2002, 13:52 »
yes, i think it's bad news that your post got edited, and i don't think it should happen to anyone.
Also, i do agree with everything in that last post, except i reckon you should be able to say what you like, or we'd all just be saying the same thing which *would* be a bit boring.
BUT i reckon your attitude is puerile and immature, Zombie47538957320, all you do when pissed off about something is come and shoot yr mouth off all over the place.
Try LISTENING to people and DISCUSSING things RATIONALLY.
You might get some benefit from this forum, instead of just abuse. I suspect your attitude is deliberately designed to engender abuse, so that you can believe in your own mind that we're all bastards here.
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Gonusto

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« Reply #49 on: 28 February 2002, 22:10 »
I wasn't trying to say that Zombie9920 shouldn't be allowed to speak his opinions.  I agree with you Calum, things would get very boring around here.  I was simply suggesting he might not get flamed as much (since he has such a strong dislike of it) if he wasn't always talking about how good Microsoft was.  Another solution would be for him to just be less sensitive.  I was just trying to help the poor fellow out . . .


-Gonusto

lost

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« Reply #50 on: 8 March 2002, 03:54 »
quote:
Originally posted by Xenoran:
Needle Dick? Fucktard? This is clearly futile... goodbye!


Someone seems butthurt, o must be that dick in your ass.  Futile, i think so.
If ignorance is bliss, why aren't there more happy people?

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theangelofdeath69

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« Reply #51 on: 4 April 2002, 09:10 »
Well, well.

It seems everyone's jumped on this wagon, huh.  By the way, HOW THE HELL can anyone actually DEFEND Microsoft?  Yes, I am qualified to say that, I use Windows (much though I hate it.)

No matter.  I seem to have started a pretty good argument here!
Specifications are for the weak and timid!
You question the worthiness of my code? I should kill you where you stand!
Indentation?! - I will show you how to indent when I indent your skull!
What is this talk of 'release'? Klingons do not make software 'releases'. Our software 'escapes' leaving a bloody trail of designers and quality assurance people in its wake.
Klingon function calls do not have 'parameters' - they have 'arguments' - and they ALWAYS WIN THEM.
Debugging? Klingons do not debug. Our software does not coddle the weak.
A TRUE Klingon Warrior does not comment on his code!
Klingon software does NOT have BUGS. It has FEATURES, and those features are too sophisticated for a Romulan pig like you to understand.
You cannot truly appreciate Dilbert unless you've read it in the original Klingon.
Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!

iustitia

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« Reply #52 on: 4 April 2002, 15:55 »
quote:
Rely completely on the GUI without any command line dependancies  

NOT REGISTERED in referance to windows

Oh really?  Try renewing dhcp leases and finding dhcp and wins servers as easily as is done with ipconfig.  Try doing a tracert, ping, or pathping or even a finger for that matter on that GUI of yours.  Try discovering all incoming connections, as well as ip, icmp, tcp and udp statistics with a GUI app better than dos netstat.  Try using telnet.  and I didn't even mention arp and nbtstat.  And don't try to tell me that in the windows 9x systems you can get a GUI version of telnet and ipconfig.  Anyone that is experianced enough to use telnet but not enough to use the command line is definitly an anomaly in the world of computers.  The same goes for winipconfig, like anyone w/o basic knowledge of the command line would know what dns, dhcp, wins servers were, or even what ip addys are.  MS made those programs for nobody.
Congratulations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You have found the trillionth easily preventable bug in a Microsoft OS.  You have just won the privlage of being frustrated with an over priced, unreliable OS that makes you conform to its standards.  How does that make you feel?


Calum

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« Reply #53 on: 4 April 2002, 16:43 »
hey now, hey now!
don't be so harsh on poor old windows!

i have a dual boot setup with red hat and winME, and i have to say that my windows ME does at least provide a command line as well as a gui.

Of course it's totally true that there is NO information and there are NO help files for the command line, but hey.
Also several DOS programs that are run from said command line fail to initialise my sound card, even though the gui can use the card fine. Also some programs don't even run on that command line they have in winME.
plus there is the minor fact that you can't actually do ANYTHING of USE from the command line (like create a letter in a decent word processing format, or write a CD, or even play a CD, i think, though i haven't tried that.
Oh yes, there's also that minor fact that the command line interface ISN'T EVEN a real DOS prompt! it's a "virtual machine" which means it's a Microsoft coded DOS emulator! we'll that's a step forward i must say!
so compared with win98, which had a working, but impotent command line with no help or encouragement, we now get a dodgy cobbled together, possibly nonfunctional, but impotent command line with no help or encouragement.
whoop
dee
doo.

That said, i like the command line...

the linux one on my red hat system.
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iustitia

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« Reply #54 on: 4 April 2002, 16:47 »
quote:
The real issue is clearly ignorance, most novice users aren't even aware of what the operating systems is, I know a lot of them who used to think that "Windows is the PC"... And with that being the issue ...could you imagine what those people would be like on Linux? However, there should be an option to purchase the system without an OS for more advanced users who know what an OS is and how to install one.  


I know I'm going to get reamed for this, but I think that he has a point.  I'm not saying it's right or anything, but it's the way things are.  People are not going to take time out to learn the specifics of computers.  It's all about marketing, and the tactic that microsoft and most notorioussaly AOL (gasp) employ is ease of use. (I rolled on the floor for nearly 10 minutes when I saw the aol icon said "double click to use").  They want access to the internet, (most notably email and instant messaging) while still knowing the least about it that they possibly can.  No one is going to take the time to learn the command line.  Plus they have all those training cd's and books and courses.  And they are all geared toward windows and M$ office.  Easy will always win out on the novice user.  That's why Mac and Windows are supreme in that domain.  There will always be comp repair guys to bring the computer to to do simple tasks such as re-installing the dredaded OS.  There is nothing we can do about it.  The relm of computing has movied into the domain of idocy.  And to say that the novices aren't allowed to use the computer is just not fai...  well it is fair but they don't think so.  After all, I'm sure at least one of the younger of you have been raised on windows systems, as I have.  Future generations of programers and technitions will all be introduced that way, there is no escaping it.  I'm trying to think of analogy, but I can't even come close to the one about the bread and penut butter is to the comp and os one.  By the way, Don't let it be said that I like the way it is, or that I am defending microsoft. I wish just as any hacker does that the mouse and GUI were never invented.  I'm just saying it like it is.  

BTW  Does anyone else get the feeling that they want to puke when they see an AOL comercial?  Does anyone ever feel like Nick Burns, Your company's computer guy from Saturday Night Live?  And a note on hardware:  I can't buy a drive, nic, or any other kind of computer card w/o getting detailed instructions on how to exactly configure it.  These companies assume you know nothing.
Congratulations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You have found the trillionth easily preventable bug in a Microsoft OS.  You have just won the privlage of being frustrated with an over priced, unreliable OS that makes you conform to its standards.  How does that make you feel?


psyjax

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« Reply #55 on: 4 April 2002, 21:03 »
WOW! Well aren't you Holier than thou. What the hell man?

I have said this once and I have said it a thousand times. How do you expect people to get in to the more complicated aspects of computing if they can't even use the machine to begin with.

I wasn't born a hacker, I was raised on Apple II's and Commodor 64's. Just because I only knew the standard file navigating command-line functions, and not the more detailed technocal bits, didn't religate me to the realm of idiot.

I know plenty of Linux and UNIX people who know the OS and aren't programmers. Does that make them idiots? Are they more inteligent because they can memorize a more archaic or complicated OS?  Are they stupid because they only use the OS to run specific aplications and have no aspirations to deleve in to the programming or hardware aspects?

Your logic is as flawd as a mechanic claiming that no one who dosn't know how to repair an automobile should ever touch a screwdriver because they are to stupid to use it, and aren't aware of the power it truely wields.

Besides, no one should be able to dictate who and who shouldent use a computer. It's not your place.

I have been using Computers all my life. When I first stated I didn't know jack, today I can take apart my machine and tell you what every pice is and does. I know asembly, I can go in and out of the GUI and can do anything I want.

I would have never gotten that far had I not had a simple starting point to get me hooked and interested. Despite all this however, I still mostly use my computer for duble clicking around, browsing the net, and doing my homework. Man I must really be a moron   .

Hell, the old UNIX days, people would log time on the mainframes to run certain aplications. The people who used those programms werent necessarly techheads who knew the machine and OS inside and out. They new the program, they used it as a tool. This dosn't make them stupid.

Wake up. You knowing more about computing dosn't make you more special or inteligent than anybody else, Im sure you werent born with a technical manual in your mouth.
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Kintaro

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« Reply #56 on: 4 April 2002, 21:43 »
quote:
Originally posted by Xenoran:
As much as I dislike participating in this, I will outline 5 things that Windows (2000/XP will be versions in question) can do that Linux can't.

1) Host a Microsoft Exchange Server, an invaluble reasource to any corporation who relies heavily on the Microsoft Office Suite.

My dads office rely on bloated crap, and there
server runs solaris.


2) Utilize advanced 3D accelerators at their full potential through DirectX, for the most part Linux is limited to OpenGL optimizations and is unable to use the built in DirectX optimizations.

I use windows and Linux
What was Q3A twice as fast in linux (Red-Hat 7.2)
You may have linux but YOU CANT USE IT.

3) Rely completely on the GUI without any command line dependancies. The X GUIs such as KDE and Gnome have come a long way in making Liux more user friendly, but high level vital functions still require the use of the command line (the terminal if X is running). Without any command line knowledge, Linux can still be used through KDE but it will basically be limited to being a word processor / web box.

My Red-Hat 7.2 install is just about gui'd all the time. And i only use the shell because i'm soo
l337. My mum office now has moved to linux.
And she says she hasnt had her computer crash yet.
It used too crash all the time!!!

4) Use a driver certification system, through the use of WHQL driver certification, drivers can be guarenteed to be stable in the OS they are certified for. This is very valuble for less skilled users, with that system in place Windows can be set to reject any non-WHQL drivers and prevent a less skilled user from installing faulty drivers.

When you can view the Source of a driver, and can
see how it works its much better.
You seem to look as if you are a member of the Microsoft team.

5) Support the majority of hardware and software out on the market. This is a major plus for consumers, through all of the support Windows has throughout the hardware and software industries the users will be open to a much broader range of products that will work with their system.

Thats because they pay Hardware vendors to ONLY make there hardware for windows, and the same with software. Thats WHY we hate them and thats why there a MONOPOLY and thats why they wont be around
much longer.

And while I've completed my list, I would like to point out a few things in your list.

That one was correct... Linux is definately THE platform for programming.

Now, in closing I think I should clear a few things up on where my opinions stand. First, when I defend Windows, I am only defending the NT variations of it, Win9x was without a doubt a horrible OS, almost the the point of being unusable. Second, I do not hate Linux, it simply doesn't fit my needs for anything other than my HTTP/FTP/IRC server, I feel it's an excellent OS for most servers and for programming, it just leaves a lot to be desired in the feild of general desktop usability. And finally, Apple... Apple is a company I strongly dispise, they depend  heavily on hype and aesthetics, neither of which matter in terms of real performance and as a company, they engage in some very childish mudslinging.

You "sort of" have a point.
I actually like windows 2000.
But Red-Hat linux is just the same.

I paid $30 for Red-Hat
And Windows was $300 when my mum got it
(5 user licence) and now she use's ONLY LINUX
at her bissness (which she runs)
She also says she happy that Red-Hat is cheap and
she is allowed too intall it on more than 5 machines.
This allows small bisnesses to reach greater goals. My mumz work is the best example of
"The funcional Office"
And compare prices of GNUcash and quickbooks.

Oh and red-hat came with star office.

Price per fuctioninal office workstation software running linux  : $30 for the first machine.
        windows: $1000+ per machine

WIndows price include MicroSith office, windows 2000, Quicken Quickbooks, And more.


Well, that's my two cents...

[ February 07, 2002: Message edited by: Xenoran ]


Brent

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« Reply #57 on: 4 April 2002, 22:48 »
Very interesting debate.  One thing I did notice was that at no time did "not registered" call any one he may have dissagreed with a childish name like "fucktard" or "needledick".  I believe he conducted himself in a very MATURE manner which is more than I can say for some.  Most of the arguements are far beyond me because I am only as I admit, an "average user" The more I read on here, the more I believe that Linux is basically a programmer/IT professionals system. The average person doesnt know or even care about 95% of the stuff you were talking about.  
He is right about one thing I do understand and that is What in the hell are you people doing that caused your windows systems to crash every 5 minuts????  I have yet to have a crash with xp and had very very few with 98se.  You guys get one debater on here that discusses things in an ADULT manner and you trash him by calling him childish names until he simply gives up in frustration.  That is winning a debate?? I dont think so...
My turn... call me names.. I dont particularily give a shit.  Wake up guys and gals... stop kneeling at the alter and realize that there is a world beyond linux.  If this site does not encourage open debate, it should state that fact. The childishness of some on here, almost makes me puke. It would be interesting to have a poll and see what the average age of the participants is. Linux experience and life experience are obviously 2 different things. Calling people who dissagree with you stupid names may be considered fun to some, but to others, it may be insulting and considered reason enough to dismiss you as being not worthy of intellegent debate.  He is also correct about close mindedness. Other than organized religion, ive never seen so much close mindedness and narrow mindedness.. Some of you are obviously very well trained as programmers, or some other type of IT professional. Is this indicative of the quality of people in the profession?  I sure hope not.

Brent

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« Reply #58 on: 4 April 2002, 23:20 »
When I first came on this site, it was because I was getting very disgusted with the business practices of Microsoft.  
What this site seems to consist of is this...
A group of people have found a "GOD" There is a core group here that continuously worship their God and re-affirm one anothers beliefs.  It is so close to organized religion that it is astounding. Trash anyone elses beliefs... I suppose in a sense it is justified to do that because of the title of the site "fuckmicrosoft" Im not pleased with the way MS does business either but ranting childishly about crashing 5 times an hour and getting paranoid about "big brother watching" ect is silly..It may seem convenient to blame all the problems in the computer software industry on Bill and company, but seperating fact from paranoia is not something that seems to be on anyones agenda. Flaming people may be fun.. But you may just end up driving people away from Linux, because they wont anyone to think they are as immature as some on here (educated, obviosly) but immature.  If this is just a fun, name calling site, why bother getting technical??

Calum

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« Reply #59 on: 4 April 2002, 23:39 »
it's a good job you don't mind being called a fucktard, so called 'average user' because that's what you are.

There's no 'god' here, this site is anti Microsoft and pro choice.
If you are against choice, and that is the god you refer to then fuck off. i have no time for a moron who doesn't appreciate the value of choice.

If on the other hand you are not anti choice, and you are just telling us all how much better you are than everybody else, then fuck off. everybody is equal to begin with, and debatably everybody stays equal until they die.

Basically if you are going to be a fucktard about it, then fuck off.

Nothing personal, but in MY opinion a debate is a debate if it contains content, regardless of whether expletives are used. When it becomes vacuous malodourous pompous self righteous tripe, as many try to make it (under the guise of being 'mature' and 'sensible', it is no longer worth carrying on the discussion.

When i say 'fuck' it is not to intimidate people, as you say yourself, you don't care if i call you a fucktard so why does it even matter?

answer: it doesn't.
so stop making a big deal about it.

and take a look at the name of this site too, you might be shocked.
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