Linux to Over take Apple on Desktop

[lazygamer]

quote:
It costs around $5 million dollars (can get into billions for sequels and high profile) to make a serious 3D action shooter. Then imagine taking all that research and development and not being able to recoop your losses with sales because you made your work open source.

5 million dollars is fucking insane. But billions? That don't sound possible. What's even more insane is that the serious first person shooter that cost 5 million is probably nothing truly revolutionary.  The games industry has been fucked up for quite sometime, and needs a rebirth.

Could open source work for games? Well it might, but it would have to be adapted. Like maybe engines are true free software, any sound, music, art, movies, or levels do not have to be included for free. BUT, in order to use an open source engine commerically, the source and code improvements must be included.

This way small groups of people with devotion and time could make a good game, and not have to worry about making their own engine/paying big bucks to license an engine. Although the small group idea could only work with a change in the way the games industry works. IE :p ublishers exploting developers, developers being forced to go with publishers, games being made for mass market stuff, those corporate dudes fucking things up, marketing being obsessively important.

The result is that code would not have to be continually wasted(scrapping an engine to make a new one), games less buggy, more stable, and faster. Also, obsolescence would not be as much an issue because a large amount of the small developers would use older, but greatly improved game engines.

To all you naysayers(assuming there are any), could open source/free software work for an OS? Nah, of course not! OS's are different from programs.  

[ July 05, 2003: Message edited by: lazygamer ]

[psyjax]

as far as why the variety of programs goes, the confusion arises when you install a tipical linux distro, you usualy get a dozen programs that do the same think, with no simple de-install method, and no real indication as to the quality or usefullness of the particular program.

And don't say you can choose packages on install, your comon user isn't gonna know what half of them do, or even gonna know which ones are the ones that will suit their needs best.

It's not that you can't learn the linux file hiarchy, it's more like Who wants to?

On my mac my hardrive is just my hard drive, it sits on my desktop or in my dock and thats that. An application is just an app, not something dependant on a million smaller components. Installation is as simople as double click and it ALLWAYS works.

I find myself messing with .conf files too often in linux, to do mundane tasks that are easy in other OSs. I know there are GUI configuration tools, but these are never perfect, or fully fetured.

I dual boot with redhat 9, and luckely Redhat updater does all of the kernel and driver updateing for you. Yet installing something not supplied by redhat is often more than a pain.

execuatbles in usr/bin are often burried under tons of files, why dosn't the system just put them somewere the common user can see them at? Why do tehy expect him/her to do teh grunt work?

Why the hell is every system directory named with cryptic alphanumeric three letter names?

Can you learn it? sure.

Am I, a common every day fool gonna want to? Fuck no.

lukely Im not a common everyday fool and enjoy playing with linux    But I wouldent recomend it to the feint fo heart, my grandma, or my girlfriend, they just wouldent take the time to get used to it.

[Stryker]

quote:Originally posted by psyjax: plain 'ol psyjax:
as far as why the variety of programs goes, the confusion arises when you install a tipical linux distro, you usualy get a dozen programs that do the same think, with no simple de-install method, and no real indication as to the quality or usefullness of the particular program.

That's a long sentence... Don't choose full install then. Just choose personal.

edit: and there is a simple add/remove programs feature in linux. very similiar to windows.

 

quote:
And don't say you can choose packages on install, your comon user isn't gonna know what half of them do, or even gonna know which ones are the ones that will suit their needs best.

choose personal, it picks them for you

 

quote:
It's not that you can't learn the linux file hiarchy, it's more like Who wants to?

I dont want to learn the mac one    . Most users aren't even aware that there is a file hiarchy. They just click what they want to open.

 

quote:
On my mac my hardrive is just my hard drive, it sits on my desktop or in my dock and thats that.

feel free to make a shortcut to "/" on your linux desktop.

 

quote:
An application is just an app, not something dependant on a million smaller components.

I'm always finding programs for windows that want me to go search google for something like "MSWINSCK.OCX" to run. I've never made a program that didn't include everything it needed to run, that's just dumb development i think.

 

quote:
Installation is as simople as double click and it ALLWAYS works.

you mean, you couldn't double click an rpm? there are binary installs for linux too. install/upgrade mozilla on linux.

 

quote:
I find myself messing with .conf files too often in linux, to do mundane tasks that are easy in other OSs. I know there are GUI configuration tools, but these are never perfect, or fully fetured.

again, not linux's fault. i'm sure if the developer thought that everyone would want to change certain settings... they'd include it in the app.

 

quote:
I dual boot with redhat 9, and luckely Redhat updater does all of the kernel and driver updateing for you. Yet installing something not supplied by redhat is often more than a pain.

now we're back to the developer thing again. perhaps an example of something you had problems installing?

 

quote:
execuatbles in usr/bin are often burried under tons of files, why dosn't the system just put them somewere the common user can see them at?

because most users dont use those programs directly. most of them are shell programs.
I've never seen someone say, "I want to start an office document, now lets fuck the shortcut that was easily placed on my menu and try to find the actual program"

 

quote:
Why do tehy expect him/her to do teh grunt work?

you mean, clicking a shortcut?

 

quote:
Why the hell is every system directory named with cryptic alphanumeric three letter names?

you man like, C:\WINDOWS\system32\CatRoot2\{127D0A1D-4EF2-11D1-8608-00C04FC295EE} ?

most people dont need to mess with those folders, and the ones that do know what they are doing.

 

quote:
Can you learn it? sure.

do you NEED to? no

 

quote:
Am I, a common every day fool gonna want to? Fuck no.

good, cause you dont need to.

 

quote:
lukely Im not a common everyday fool and enjoy playing with linux        But I wouldent recomend it to the feint fo heart, my grandma, or my girlfriend, they just wouldent take the time to get used to it.

my mom won't take the time to get used to windows or a mac. i set her down with linux and everything else is too confusing. i got my 7 year old cousin to start up games and a word processor. Why couldn't they?

nothing personal, dont get me wrong. i just dont agree with you. what's so hard about linux?

[ July 05, 2003: Message edited by: Stryker ]

[Stryker]

and psyjax, i'm working on a distro that will make things much easier than they currently are. such as, /software /config /system /users /policies /network and such folders. I'll probably make my own desktop manager, have your little hard drive icon on the desktop to help the insecure about their hard drive actually being there. Of course this isn't exactly the advertisement for it    you seem to have decent thoughts, i'd appreciate any advice you may have.

[suselinux]

Sounds cool

When can we see a beta?

[Stryker]

probably late summer, early fall. i'm trying to figure out how to make $PATH recursive... i suppose that'd go in a different thread though.

[psyjax]

Well, windows is a different story     Im talking about what I consider to be the most well designed OS in the world, OSX.  It is very reliable, consistently simple, and very modular.

The add/install in linux dosent work with all programms, but sucha  think shouldent have a necessity in the first place. On the Mac dependancie issues never occur. Also, makeing a shortcut to "/" has little meaning to the common user. On the mac I don't need to know jack about commandline directory syntax, it's all visually organized. The GUI is true WYSIWYG.

RPMs are double clickable, but dependancies are not allways easely resolved. Often RPMs fail, and then you have to compile from source. This sux.

As far as using personal install etc. My only gripe with this, is that a new user may not like some of the pre-picked software. For example, Redhat favors OpenOffice.or and Mandrake KWrite(?), Each programm works diffrently, say the user dosent like OpenOffice or Mozilla as the default program.. Then what is he/or she to do?

She tries to find an alternative amongst litteraly hundreds, and then there is no guarentee that the installation of her new program will go smothly. Don't even tell me that apt-get is simple, because it does have a learning curve and the comman user doesnot want to muck about with a command line. Worse still, is if a user dosn't have apt and would like to install it, that is a hastle and a half! I hope that they will never have to mess with .conf or bash scripts.

So ya, it's confusing, and overwhelming to a new user. Indeed my mom could easely jump on redhat and send an email, brows a site, type a letter on a preconfigd installation, but should she ever want to configure things diffrently shes out of luck.

Some distros like Redhat 9 include minimal system configuration tools (graphical ones that is), Mandrake includes at least 4! How is a common joe gonna know were the fuck to go?

Im not bashing linux, I don't think it sux, I just think that it's structure as curently implimented is at odds with a simple desktop OS.

Im really excited about your project for a more logical linux tho! What's the distro calld? Can you download any? Is it Gobo?

EDIT: I also know that alot of my gripes are probably things that can be resolved with the software developers themselves. The problem is, that alot of them seem to expect you to have some mid-range knowledge of linux so sadly, again, they make things that arent as simple as they could be.

I think that if linux expands beyond the "geek" community, then perhapse it will grow simple out of necessity. But to start that expansion, they must make steps to simplicity as well. They have done this, and are still doing this.

Mandrake and redhat 9 are impresive, Redhat 9 in particular is lightyears ahead of Redhat 8. The jurney to a simple Desktop OS is not over yet tho.. So I still think it's not the best choice for mr and mrs joe blow.

[ July 05, 2003: Message edited by: psyjax: plain 'ol psyjax ]

[Stryker]

i'll pick at your post in a little bit, i'm busy atm.

and i'm working on a utility that will make installing from source easy. (usually, if it's like most sourced up packages)

[Stryker]

quote:Originally posted by psyjax: plain 'ol psyjax:
Im talking about what I consider to be the most well designed OS in the world, OSX.

you were talking about how linux was immature

 

quote:
The add/install in linux dosent work with all programms...

try removing mspaint with the add/remove programs in windows. or notepad... it cant be done. what doesn't the add/remove programs work well with? works fine for me.

 

quote:
...but sucha  think shouldent have a necessity in the first place.

i think it's necessary to be able to add and remove programs.

 

quote:
On the Mac dependancie issues never occur.

can't argue with that.

 

quote:
Also, makeing a shortcut to "/" has little meaning to the common user.

and on a mac it does? you are telling me that there are no shortcuts for programs? that a user has to navigate to them?

 

quote:
On the mac I don't need to know jack about commandline directory syntax, it's all visually organized.

as it is with linux, perhaps you just dont like any of the desktop managers you've used.

 

quote:
The GUI is true WYSIWYG.

something i'm not too familiar with. What are the benefits of this?

 

quote:
RPMs are double clickable, but dependancies are not allways easely resolved.

install the rpms using synaptic

 

quote:
Often RPMs fail, and then you have to compile from source. This sux.

i haven't had rpms fail in a long time, not since i got apt-get. compiling from source doesn't suck. it takes about 3 commands to do. and i'm making a tool to make it easier.

 

quote:
As far as using personal install etc. My only gripe with this, is that a new user may not like some of the pre-picked software.

and everyone just loves wordpad in windows? no reason to go get a better word processor huh?

 

quote:
For example, Redhat favors OpenOffice.or and Mandrake KWrite(?), Each programm works diffrently, say the user dosent like OpenOffice or Mozilla as the default program.. Then what is he/or she to do?

if i used windows...

i dont like wordpad, i'll go buy a better word processor.

 

quote:
She tries to find an alternative amongst litteraly hundreds, and then there is no guarentee that the installation of her new program will go smothly.

that has nothing to do with the operating system, doesn't support "linux isn't mature" at all.

 

quote:
Don't even tell me that apt-get is simple, because it does have a learning curve and the comman user doesnot want to muck about with a command line.
[/QUOTE[

get synaptic

Worse still, is if a user dosn't have apt and would like to install it, that is a hastle and a half!

it comes in 1 rpm, which i have never had failed dependencies with.

 

quote:
I hope that they will never have to mess with .conf or bash scripts.

most .conf stuff is for serious system settings and server settings... nothing a normal user will have to mess with. programs do tend to have preferences dialogs.

 

quote:
So ya, it's confusing, and overwhelming to a new user.

my mom never used a computer before, she is a new user. she started with linux, got it right away...

 

quote:
Indeed my mom could easely jump on redhat and send an email, brows a site, type a letter on a preconfigd installation...

so you agree, it's not hard.

 

quote:
...but should she ever want to configure things diffrently shes out of luck.

everything she would want to change she could easily... what can't she?

 

quote:
Some distros like Redhat 9 include minimal system configuration tools (graphical ones that is), Mandrake includes at least 4! How is a common joe gonna know were the fuck to go?

documentation comes with most distros.

 

quote:
Im not bashing linux...

perhaps, but it sure does sound like it.

 

quote:
...I don't think it sux, I just think that it's structure as curently implimented is at odds with a simple desktop OS.

ok. i think you are wrong.

 

quote:
Im really excited about your project for a more logical linux tho! What's the distro calld? Can you download any? Is it Gobo?

thanks. it's calyptos. a website is in development at http://calyptos.com. There will be 2 versions. workstation/personal and server. They installations will be different, obviously server will be more complex and have more options, while personal is basicly "click next". "Can you download any?" i dont understand that. it's not released yet, still in it's early stages. what the hell is Gobo??

 

quote:
EDIT: I also know that alot of my gripes are probably things that can be resolved with the software developers themselves. The problem is, that alot of them seem to expect you to have some mid-range knowledge of linux so sadly, again, they make things that arent as simple as they could be.

any suggestions for adjusting this are most welcome.

 

quote:
I think that if linux expands beyond the "geek" community, then perhapse it will grow simple out of necessity. But to start that expansion, they must make steps to simplicity as well. They have done this, and are still doing this.

I really dont think it needs too much more growing, it's very easy, user friendly, and complete. Very small adjustments are needed, wait until the next redhat release i'm sure. (or wait until mine, wish me luck)


 

quote:
Mandrake and redhat 9 are impresive, Redhat 9 in particular is lightyears ahead of Redhat 8. The jurney to a simple Desktop OS is not over yet tho.. So I still think it's not the best choice for mr and mrs joe blow.

again, i disagree. I had my mom read this and she laughed. most of the stuff she didn't understand... which is a good clue that it doesn't matter.

[ September 25, 2006: Message edited by: Stryker ]

[psyjax]

quote: you were talking about how linux was immature

As a desktop platform. I was refering to windoze, that windoze is cryptic and illorganized is a point that I more than agree with.

 

quote: try removing mspaint with the add/remove programs in windows. or notepad... it cant be done. what doesn't the add/remove programs work well with? works fine for me.

Programms that you install independantly from source, or in odd directories are not necissarly picked up by it.

 

quote: i think it's necessary to be able to add and remove programs.

Belive it or not, an Add/Remove utility is not necessary on OSX, since everything is self contained. You drag an app to the trash it's gone. Any files the app may have used is kept in the system->library directory. That's it, no hunting around for obscure files, and no depndancy on a separete program to keep track of it for you. Its consistent, no hastle, allways easy, and 100% guaranteed to work.

 

quote: and on a mac it does? you are telling me that there are no shortcuts for programs? that a user has to navigate to them?

On the Mac, makeing an "Alias" as they are called is as simple as clicking on the application icon, and selecting make alias. Put said alias werever you want, anywere, at any time, and it ALLWAYS knows what it points to. Not only that, but you can move around whatver it is it points to to anywere on your hardrive and not only will that application work flawlessly, all of the aliases will too.

But aliases are not allways necisary, considering that programs are totaly self contained in their own folders, or icons. You can drag them to the desktop if you use them often, or you can put them anywere else on your hardrive for that matter, bury them six levels deep in a folder, they will still work, the aliases will still work, and nothing is disturbed.

Windoze dosen't even have this right yet.

 

quote:as it is with linux, perhaps you just dont like any of the desktop managers you've used.  

I have used KDE, GNOME, WindowMaker, IceWM, and Enlightenment. And I beg to differ, you do need to know at least a little bit about how the files are named and organized in Linux to use any of the window managers.

I recal a case in KDE were I had to actually add a \zip folder under my usr\dev directory, and then add a few things to some .conf files to get it to recognize it. Same goes for my vfat partition. This occured in Redhat 8, but Mandrake 9 and Redhat 9 recognized both with no problem so kudos there  

Yet, Im sure I will run into a similar situation down the line.

On a Mac, storage devices, are not kept in an obscure folder. They are universal system icons. and are represented as what they are. I don't need to make folders to representthem or shortcuts to them for that matter.

 

quote: something i'm not too familiar with. What are the benefits of this?

WYSIWYG, What you see is what you get.

Meaning that if I see an application icon, that icon IS the application, not some symbolic alias to a grupe of files scattered across my directory tree. I can move that icon around anywere I want, and it is not dependant on a dozen little files in it's directory, and it knows how to access whatever it needs anywere else in the system. If I see a hardrive, that IS the hardrive, not a folder  witha  funny name under dev.

That sort of thing, it liberates one from having to memorize and get your brains around abstractions. Makes things simple and imediatly understandable.

 

quote:install the rpms using synaptic  

Never used it. Ill look into it thanks  

 

quote:i haven't had rpms fail in a long time, not since i got apt-get. compiling from source doesn't suck. it takes about 3 commands to do. and i'm making a tool to make it easier.  

Remember, teh command line makes joe blow run in the other direction. And usually it takes 3 commands, unless there is some sort of conflict, and then you have to pass some extra flags, or maybe even open some headerfiles and edit some macros. It can get harry. But a tool to make it easyer sounds fantastic!

Again Im not knocking any of this stuff, just pointing out that it's pretty rough around the edges, Joe Blow dosn't care if it works %90 percent of the time, if he has a hard time once, hes running the other way.

 

quote:and everyone just loves wordpad in windows? no reason to go get a better word processor huh?  

heh. I use openOffice under windows    and on my Mac, the TextEdit app is a fully fetured lightweight word processor. It's actually a pretty darn good program.

I just ment that the stuff in the personal install is pre-picked so you can never be sure if the stuff you get works to your likeing etc.

So it becomes hard for a newb to figure out what he wants in teh first place.

 

quote:that has nothing to do with the operating system, doesn't support "linux isn't mature" at all.  

As far as I see it, an OS is only as good as the software for it. If teh variety of software does not meet the majorities needs or is to plentifull to sort thrugh the junky stuff, then it becomes overwhelming for the first time user.

 

quote: most .conf stuff is for serious system settings and server settings... nothing a normal user will have to mess with. programs do tend to have preferences dialogs.

I had to edit one when X11 unexpectedly keeld out.

...

Darn my girlfriend is on the phone  

Ill be beack  

[solo]

I have been reading this thread and psyjax, I'm sorry, but I wonder about your sanity as of this moment. I have suggested Linux to a lot of my friends and those that have had the opportunity to install it have completely been able to use it. Don't tell me the user interface is bad (tho xfree sucks) because it does not, we have full anti-aliased fonts with alpha-blended PNGs for graphics and most distros come with a theme to die for. Don't tell me KDE/GNOME are hard to use because they most definitely are not. In Windows to add a shortcut on the desktop I right-click, click New and wait about 20 seconds as it loads that crap, and click New Shortcut. Then I add the command line and name options. In GNOME I right click the desktop, click New Launcher add the information and click OK. In Mac it's the same.

Don't tell me application installation is hard. I downloaded apt which took me about 1 minute, double-clicked it, RPM installed it, no dependency problems at all. Went to Redhat->Run Program and typed apt-get install synaptic and then clicked Redhat->System Tools->Synaptic. Then I downloaded massive hordes of software and when I didnt have a certain needed dependency it would tell me and mark it for auto-install. I would then click Proceed and it all goes quickly and easily.

How about games? Linux supports OpenGL completely, and nVidia and ATI provide their own binary 3d-accelerated Xfree driver. A lot of the other 3d  xfree project drivers are already accelerated. Bottom-line on driver support is that the number-one person responsible for missing drivers are the companies themselves. The second would be Xfree for not adding the functionality in quick enough. As for do we have any games? You are very very funny. I can play UT2k3, RTCW, Quake3 Arena, RTCW:Enemy Territory, Unreal, Unreal Tournament,
Quake 2, Duke3D, Vendetta (its in beta stages tho), and a lot of games are supported in Wine[X]. I would not be whining if I was a gamer and I had Linux because RTCW:ET keeps me satisfied *alone*. Not to mention Linux has a lot of very-fine games, take a look at Frozen Bubble as a very small example. That thing is tripped out! Talk about high-quality production. Not saying its the most powerful or addictive game but undeniably it's a very well-designed game.

 

quote:
I recal a case in KDE were I had to actually add a \zip folder under my usr\dev directory, and then add a few things to some .conf files to get it to recognize it. Same goes for my vfat partition. This occured in Redhat 8, but Mandrake 9 and Redhat 9 recognized both with no problem so kudos there

!! WOW! With all-due-respect (to which there is plenty of respect due), you really are stereotyping Linux *to* *death*. If you want to add a Zip *file*, you just open up Ark (Redhat->Accessories) and add your files, click File-Save and save it as a zip. If you are talking about a zip drive, Zip drives are automatically detected, just go to /mnt/ if a link to it isnt on your desktop already. Redhat has a very robust filesystem finding mechanism. And also, if it does not work in Linux it is not Linux's fault it is Iomega's fault for not supporting Linux. Don't tell me they don't want to open source their code because I have a non-GPL kernel module in my kernel called `nvidia' right now and it works just as well as all the other ones.

Hmm how about uninstalling an application. I have two choices. I can go to Redhat->System Settings->Add/Remove Applications, which provides a nice GUI with descriptions and real names (not just package names). Or I can go into Synaptic and get the exact same thing. So not only does Redhat COME with an easy way of uninstalling software, but if I have a distro that doesnt (albeit that uses RPM) I can just use synaptic. I wouldnt be complaining child.

What about the kernel? Isn't it monolithic and very core-centric and unmodular? Any programmer can write a Linux kernel module. Any of them. Of course they may not be able to write a secure or useful one, or may not know how to access kernel internals but that infos all there and developers can learn. I have a basic grasp on Linux kernel concepts myself...
As for it being "monolithic", Tell me how a kernel supported by computing enterprises world-wide, that supports more hardware types than almost any OS available, and has been deemed many times as a great solution for enterprise computing? I think the only thing that Linux is missing that you are truly whining about is Aqua. Trust me, that's coming, but make sure to breathe before you see it in the news because there's still a long way to it.

 

quote:
Not to mention the fact that a kernel update is needed like every other day due to bugfixes and new drivers.

I have *never* had to update my kernel in my entire life. I *have* updated my kernel, but I have had no reason to. Mostly because I never see or experiences bugs in the kernel at all. In fact, I never even come close to hearing about as many security fixes as I see on Windows and even Mac because I never see any at all. Sure bugs are fixed but none of them are major obviously.
For instance the only time I have ever had a kernel panic was when my hard drive was not plugged in correctly and i was booting from a boot disk. But obviously Windows would have a problem with that too *IF* windows could fit it's kernel onto a floppy disk. Same with Mac, altho I bet Macs *could* get their kernel onto a floppy disk but they dont have floppy disks so oh well. The only reason I have a boot disk at all is because theres something wrong with my hard drive that wont let the MBR work right, I have an NTFS partition but its useless because it couldnt get the XP boot stuff to work right and it just said error loading NTLDR.

Installation? Puh Lease. Not only is Linux the easiest thing to install since putting a candy bar on the counter but it's the fastest. I installed RH9 in 25 minutes on my pretty 1.7ghz processor with a western digital. It took about 20 minutes to get the base XP stuff on my hdd (of course i couldnt continue install because the mbr's fucked and wouldnt get into windows to continue). Also, all my hardware is detected, the only thing I have problems with is my audio card being really quiet on my altec speakers but im not all too sure thats a linux problem. Everything installed perfectly, with no setup at all. It found my mouse and selected it for me. Sure it asked me 'is this right' but i didnt need to change anything, just clicked next.

To date, the only thing that I cannot get to work is my Gravis Xterminator Dualshock. The joystick driver says its supported but I can't get it to work.

As for multiple apps for multiple purposes: in Redhat/KDE, the KDE programs mostly get preference over GNOME ones in the KDE menu. in Redhat/GNOME, the GNOME apps get preference over the KDE ones in the GNOME menu. So it's all a matter of which set of tools you like better (that is *if* you chose to install KDE, otherwise *one* set of tools is installed, just like on Windows and Mac).

How about apps looking differently? Sure this is slightly annoying but I'm sure you've noticed that Redhat includes Bluecurve for GNOME,Metacity,KDE,Kwin,GDM, and even XMMS for fuck sake!! A default install of Redhat, everything looks very similiar. Albeit there are slight differences, especially with Mozilla but please, mozilla doesnt look the same on *any* platform.

im tired of typing too

[suselinux]

I was gonna be mean and quote all of that

but any way, Right on dude!

I'm one of these idiots who never reads the how to's

I just do it and Linux is great for that, its a very logical system

I think the reason that people see it as being confusing is that everything is so customizable.

so many choices can bog down a person, but the more you get into it the more you learn to appriciate it.

its like cars

 luxury cars have always been stereotyped as having the entire dash clutered by switches and gizmos, making it too hard to pick out the clock the gas and the speedo.

and hey, the faster the car, the harder it is to drive  

[jasonlane]

Wow! this has to one of the fastest threads I've ever seen on this board. Don't have time to read through all the 'arguments'..... So, yes great, I hope it does. OS X in my opinion is great, so is Linux.


Touch

[excyle-the-art-fag]

Well I would like to point out that Free Software is litterally unstopable. And it opposesses capitalism very much.

Image what we could do if what had a Free Music Foundation, share music and make really cool shit. A Free Porn Foundation ( ), a free internet foundations, a free industry foundations, as these could form we could turn capitalist markets into socialist markets, slowly converting the world.

Thats what we could do.

Because all the things are what people want, if we take them all and make the more innovative, better we could be ahead millions of years. The world would be right again.

Its not going to take effect now, or next year, but if we do what is right for our fellow human, if we share, give and help oneannother we can change the world and convert it into a open and perfect enviroment.

[suselinux]

That was beautiful