Apple and Linux Beneficial to Each Other?

[slave]

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,851874,00.asp

article:

January 29, 2003
A Mac Angle on Linux
By Matthew Rothenberg

One of my favorite recent experiences as Mac tour guide was when I escorted my buddy (and Microsoft reporter extraordinaire) Mary Jo Foley to Jacob Javits Center for her first Macworld Expo and a bracing dose of Dr. Steve's keynote patent medicine.

A veteran observer of Windows gatherings, versed in the stylings of Messrs. Gates, Ballmer et al., Foley was pleasantly impressed by the vitality of my little corner of the desktop market. She earned some kudos from Mac users for her subsequent remarks that Mac technology and its adherents can still teach the Microsoft majority a thing or two despite the numerical gulf between them.

Mary Jo may not be ready to cash in her ThinkPad, but this industry veteran did come away from the event with a new appreciation for the finer points of the Mac as a computing platform and a cultural touchstone. (She's even made it back for a couple of subsequent Macworld installments.)

I had a similar cross-cultural experience at last week's LinuxWorld here in New York, where I spent a few pleasant hours walking the floor and talking to the enthusiastic attendees about Linux's desktop prospects, the role Mac hardware can play there and the chances of peaceful co-existence between Linux and Mac OS X.

It bore out a lot of what I've been hearing from fans of both platforms: These are communities that can work and play well together on the desktop.

My longstanding creed of desktop heterogeneity has always seen creative possibilities in the perennial competition between the main commercial desktop OSes -- Windows with 90-something percent of the market and the Mac with most of the rest.

The vibe seems decidedly different when it comes to the current Linux-Mac relationship: The OSes' shared Unix underpinnings and Apple's partial embrace of the open-source principles on which Linux is founded spells a more permeable, symbiotic relationship between the two environments. What's more, the availability of Linux distros for the PowerPC platform means that many Linux advocates have happily adopted Apple's hardware

[cahult]

I like that article a lot. Here

[Crunchy(Cracked)Butter]

Beneficial to each other when Apple ports at least one fucking app that people want to use on linux!

QUICKTIME!!!

As far as i see it (as much as i like apple), they to me are merely using OSS as a rescource and bringing very little back, they are doing it to their advantage.  WOW KDE get KHTML code back, big frills.

It would be far better if we get Quicktime for linux, it free already anyway, if they think its not worth the expense then let OS developers do the work anyway.

Its not hard, its just apple.

I'm still buying one of their ibooks though.

[Calum]

i agree 100% with you, butter, if apple gave a shit about anybody but themselves, they'd port quicktime to linux. as it is they lick windows' dick in this fashion but they won't even answer linux' 'phone calls.

The only reason apple give any code back is because they're legally obliged to. Apple is a manic schizophrenic company. their stuff is excellent, but i am not much less wary of them than of microsoft. they are a company after all, and they are more monopolistic than microsoft, it just doesn't show because they have the mouse's share of the market.

[ January 31, 2003: Message edited by: Calum: Member # 81 ]

[Pantso]

So you're telling me that if Apple released Quicktime for Linux then you would all be a lot happier and less wary of them! Jeese!!   :mad:  

What you constantly seem to be forgetting is that the core of OS X is FULLY and TRULY Open Source. What about that, huh? What about all those future improvements in KHTML and subsequently Konqueror, that Apple shares with the Open Source community. I guess that even that is not enough for you people!!

[Calum]

is it? show me where i can get the source code for OSX, and then tell me why it has not been ported by individuals or an independent to other platforms (eg x86).

and i think you oversimplify. i for one would not be less wary of apple were they to release quicktime for linux (i am still well wary of realplayer, but i trust my firewall more in linux than i did in windows) however i think apple's refusal to bring out a linux quicktime, while they lick gates' balls on a regular basis by bringing it out for windows just symbolise their commitment to ripping off the open source community by keeping their enemies close.

[flap]

Well he was actually just saying that the core is "open source".

Do you use realplayer in linux? If so your firewall isn't protecting you from it spying on you (if that's what you meant)

[slave]

My stance:

Although Apple could be more of an open company when it comes to certain things, (quicktime, aqua, etc.) I also don't think they do any harm to the open source community either.  It's not like they are out to *kill* open source.

[Calum]

that's very true.
 

quote:Originally posted by flap:
Well he was actually just saying that the core is "open source".

Do you use realplayer in linux? If so your firewall isn't protecting you from it spying on you (if that's what you meant)

why not?????

[flap]

Well what firewall are you using? iptables/chains? How is it stopping realplayer from talking to the internet?

[Calum]

as i understand it i am currently using ipchains, set at a mandrake default of 'high' and allowing nothing to act as a server.

my firewalling knowledge ends right there which is why i wanted to know how realplayer could spy on me.

[flap]

oh right. well ipchains is a packet filtering firewall, which means it allows/denies packets to go in and out of your machine based on things like their dest/source IP addresses, dest/source ports, which network interface they're going out of/coming into etc. They're not concerned with which application they're bound for/coming from. With iptables there is some way to do application specific filtering but it's a bit of a hack really. If you want to stop a particular app from accessing the network it should be achieved on the user permission level rather than the packet/firewall level, despite what windows "personal firewalls" like zonealarm would have you believe.

So in summary, your firewall will usually be primarily concerned with stopping incoming connections to your machine rather than outgoing ones. I'd recommend you write your own iptables/chains script so you know what it's doing. A basic one would literally only be a few lines. Typically this would just block all incoming connections to your machine (unless you want to run servers on your machine, of course)
So if RealPlayer wants to spy on you, I'm sure your firewall hasn't been stopping it.

[Doogee]

goto LinuxIso.org and look for "GNU/Darwin" there is your Apple core (no pun intended)

[Crunchy(Cracked)Butter]

The core of OSX is open source, okay, useless to me because i don't have a machine running on a PPC platform.  Advantage = Apple, if people from OS community work on it saving apple some time.  Even if i did want to code for them, i need a mac machine anyway.

Quicktime on linux would piss off microcunt but apple doesn't want that to happen oh no, that means linux gains in popularity and people might not switch to apple because linux gains recognition from the public if major apps from apple are ported across .  Alot of things may be open sourced but apple gain from it the most(which is what apple really wants).

The reason why i mentioned quicktime was because its one of those little apps people want on linux, if apple and Linux WERE "beneficial" to each other then linux would gain more than just KHTML,core or kernel code.  They would get at least one little fucking application in FULL just like apple is going to get when they fully implement X11 on OSX.

Basically in a few years time we could be looking at the mac platform and it will be running every single damn app designed for linux, created by the open source community.  But in return linux gets code back (only because the license says they have to) and not one FULL application back in return.  They are not going out of their way to help linux are they?

What i think they are trying to do is getting everything to run on their platform and show linux users or possible windows switchers that Apple has everything from the 3 OS'es.  While Linux as usual will have to work for themselves without anybodies real help.

Codeweavers could go apple along with WINex for example.  Who would care if MS don't port Office for the mac anymore, apple would just use the MS windows version using x11 with codeweavers. It also negates the need of having Virtual PC (VPC) which costs alot more needs an installation of windows to work.  Advantage = Apple, no more MS code on their platform and performance is given a boost because there is no VPC needed anymore.

People say Linux lacks simplicity but apple have loads of that in their OS, what would happen if apple has all the apps linux has with the simple design and feel of OSX?  It has all the advantages of linux/UNIX but doesn't suffer from bad UI design or anything that is to technical for newbies to linux.  Plus all this with the brand awareness apple has.

Who would need linux?  It makes apple so much more powerful, i'm not saying that this could happen but its not as though it cannot either.  I would buy apple if this came true but i'm buying anyway, it would have everything.

The point i'm trying to make is that Apple and Linux ISN'T beneficial to each other.  It only would be if linux got back something of equal value like at least 1 native fucking Mac app like Quicktime.  Its the smallest thing to ask for but that isn't even done for linux.

So the title of this topic is untrue.

[Calum]

yes, again i agree 100% with you, butter.
 

quote:Quicktime on linux would piss off microcunt but apple doesn't want that to happen oh no, that means linux gains in popularity and people might not switch to apple because linux gains recognition from the public if major apps from apple are ported across . Alot of things may be open sourced but apple gain from it the most(which is what apple really wants).

sound like any other big company you might have heard of? why is it by the way that apple do not see their pandering to microsoft as harming their own business, but releasing software for the fastest growing operating system is harmful to them? it amounts to the same thing from a money perspective, unless they are smart enough to make the openness work for them (if they are not smart enough, and it is beginning to look that way, then they will hopefully go down the crapper with microsoft).

 

quote:The reason why i mentioned quicktime was because its one of those little apps people want on linux, if apple and Linux WERE "beneficial" to each other then linux would gain more than just KHTML,core or kernel code. They would get at least one little fucking application in FULL just like apple is going to get when they fully implement X11 on OSX.

absofuckinglutely!

yup, looks like apple is walking in the footsteps of its hero, microsoft. mac users might not like it, but it's there for everybody to see.