Author Topic: Microsoft products in Cuba  (Read 5928 times)

hoojchoons

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Microsoft products in Cuba
« Reply #45 on: 5 June 2002, 18:13 »
This is going to sound a bit harsh, but it's a historical fact that before Castro, Cuba had almost become USA's whorehouse in the south of Florida. To set some things straight. I'm certainly not in favour of absolute or despotic regimes like the one Castro established over the years. But, is Castro the only one to blame for the miserable state Cuba is in today? I don't think so. How about the USA's and other Western countries embargo on Cuba? How about the States assasination plots against Castro? How about Che Guevara's assasination by the CIA? Certainly, Cuba's current state is not the best possible but please let's not be one-sided here. It's certainly more objective to look at both sides of the problem. Don't you think?

Calum

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Microsoft products in Cuba
« Reply #46 on: 5 June 2002, 18:34 »
quote:
Ah, but it's "communist" enough in that the government (a) controls industry, with the upshot that foreign corporations would not be allowed to exploit Cuba's resources, and (b) conducts political repression.

Of course, this definition of "communist" is ideal for propaganda purposes, but I don't think it really justifies assassination plots against Castro and all that other stuff!
Actually political repression is not a requirement of communism despite what you may have read in some people's posts on this and other sites.
The sad reasons that political repression and communism have gone hand in hand in people's perceptions are twofold.

Firstly, the sorts of people who can fight their way into a position where they can set up a communist administration (in a very Darwinist, freemarket kind of a way i might add) also happen to be the kind of scaredy cats who think that political repression is the only way to keep power. Keeping power should not be a priority in a proper communist society, but those people justify it, saying that the ethic of communism would be diluted if they themselves personally are not in charge. Also, they must be well scared that people would vote them out if they were given a choice. If they had implemented real communism, the theory is that everybody would be really content and wouldn't want to vote them out, so this kind of "communism" is clearly not the real thing.

The second reason is entirely down to the witchhunt mentality exploited by people since time immemorial, which riles people into an unrealistic lather over people who are "not like us". The more public instances of this, that i have heard of anyway, tend to be Brit empire, and US type exploitations of people's emotions, from the crusades (especially the children's crusade) through the English and American witch-hunts, McCarthyism, the blind rage that comes with fighting a war, racism towards the Germans, the Japanese, the VietNamese, the Argentinians, the Iranians, conversely the Iraqis and most recently the Afghanis.

Nevermind that all of these stereotyped people are scapegoats. Go to one country and people will hate communists, go to another country and people will hate capitalists, travel again and people will hate blacks, move once more and the whole country will hate whites. What are their reasons? abstracts, nothing more. What has happened is that every government has a propaghanda machine to direct the hate of the people under its administration, since the people would presumably all just hate things anyway, and it's better (in the eyes of the state) for it to be controlled. This means though that the pet hates of the powerful or the influential become the passions of a nation, and reasons to march off to war. After all it keeps morale up, keeps the economy turning, reduces the population boom and keeps people from thinking for themselves.

Amongst the countries of the world with the most money, the US government has the biggest clout. Why? it has the most cunning propoghanda department. Consequently other nations such as Australia and England fall over themselves to back the US because the US markets itself as a winner in all cases. This is very similar to those dumb managers/employees/IT buyers/whoever who blindly plump for Microsoft, and shell out megabux for stuff that never works right.

So, the anticommunism thing is a residue from the post ww2 anti-russia thing, and is framed in the light of the unsophisticated but effective propoghanda of McCarthyism. This method would never work today (remember mass media was a new thing, Hitler had been the first real "media-whore" and the concepts of spindoctoring were not refined until the seventies when everybody had decided to forget peace and love for everybody and just look out for number one) but the knock on effects have been played upon expertly by successive generations of PR experts. The US can afford the best PR, and it has the mentality for it anyway, so it's only natural that they should be world leaders in this period of human history.

Of course this leaves anybody who does not jump on the USA bandwagon firmly on the "wrong" side of the fence in the mind of any "right thinking" citizen of the free world.

So it's all a matter of perspective, and these things like restriction of freedom et cetera are not the exclusive domain of one model of a political structure or another. I could probably argue that capitalism had the corner on repressing people's politics (and certainly the US would be rich in examples).

This is not to say that i think Cuba has a great government, all i'm saying is that they're not a communist government, and that those definitions of communism mentioned in this thread can be applied across the board to all other governmental models to equal effect, depending on perspective.

[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: Calum ]

[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: Calum ]

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Nobber

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Microsoft products in Cuba
« Reply #47 on: 5 June 2002, 21:17 »
quote:
Originally posted by Calum:
Actually political repression is not a requirement of communism despite what you may have read in some people's posts on this and other sites.


Yeah, I didn't mean to imply that it was, but you have to admit that anti-communist types always point to the totalitarian nature of supposedly "communist" regimes in order to denounce communism. They need to learn how to distinguish between theory and practice, of course!
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alied_perez

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Microsoft products in Cuba
« Reply #48 on: 6 June 2002, 04:14 »
quote:
Originally posted by Chooco:
sorry if i sound like a total asshole but wow. i honestly did not know there were computers in Cuba (maybe the government but not normal people). seeing all these things of how poor cubans or and blah blah blah......

i'm surprised Cuba is sucking M$'s dick, some of the less fortunate (not poor, just not rich) are turning to Linux because it's free. Mexico is taking a shining to Linux because it's extremely cheap to run, all they need to pay for is the CD.



In fact, you did.
What do you think Cuba is!? A bunch of indians!!??
It's true that normal people cannot have their own computer(there are other needs) and a computer worth a year or more of salary.

Actually the laptop I have belongs to the bank I work for. There are people who have their own computers (who can pay it or who have an outsider relative who can). Don't believe everything is said about Cuba(neither the good nor the bad ones, they are not all true)

Cuba is "sucking M$'s dick" just because it's free for us. I don't know how M$ software get in here, but no one pays for it(not that I know) and it is very normal to have pirated copies of M$ soft, as I've said on a previous post. The other reason is the same than all the M$ users; for everyday work, it fits their needs; and no one imagines there is other thing. When first PCs entered here, there was MS-DOS, later there was Windows, and so on. So, money is not the problem.

I hope you have understood
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alied_perez

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Microsoft products in Cuba
« Reply #49 on: 6 June 2002, 04:21 »
quote:
Originally posted by Nobber:
Yes, the US government must have some reason for doing such things to Cuba as poisoning its livestock, blowing up its hotels and enforcing an economic blockade, etc. The official reason seems to be that Cuba poses a threat to US national security, but nobody really believes that, surely?


Of course, noone can believe that. There are political reasons. I believe it's because the Miami votes. Every president promesses that he Will defeat the comunism in Cuba, and all the Miami votes are ensured. In the very bottom of this there are economical reasons. The FNCA is very strong economically, and the president will be pleased to have it on his side. Ask G. W. Bush if not.
Windows 95 (win-doz-nin-te-fiv) n. Computer
32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that can't stand 1 bit of competition.

alied_perez

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Microsoft products in Cuba
« Reply #50 on: 6 June 2002, 04:33 »
quote:
Originally posted by Calum:
Actually political repression is not a requirement of communism despite what you may have read in some people's posts on this and other sites.
[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: Calum ]

[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: Calum ]




i just loved your post, Calum (with 1 L)
Windows 95 (win-doz-nin-te-fiv) n. Computer
32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that can't stand 1 bit of competition.

Chooco

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Microsoft products in Cuba
« Reply #51 on: 7 June 2002, 14:17 »
quote:
chooco, do you live in the US? i heard that the US citizens get told a lot of untrue rubbish about Cuba by their government, and how the Cubans are all selfish primitive savages who love Stalinism, except the poor starving peasants and so on...


no sir, i live in Canada. Canada is not part of the trade embargo and it was on a Canadian channel that i saw some stuff. it didn't seem to be obvious propoganda like on CNBC with the report Cabrusa Cabraro girl did. i also saw a fairly good report on 60 minutes about how a lot of cubans depend on money from relatives in the US to live. many government stores do not accept cuban money or the money they make from working is simply not enough to live worth a crap. this brings me to an interesting thought......people always say that stuff on the internet is complete BS but is the internet anymore BS than what you see on TV?

Calum

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Microsoft products in Cuba
« Reply #52 on: 7 June 2002, 15:24 »
i think that the internet is probably a bit less BS than TV, because on the internet individuals get to say what they want to an extent, but the TV is increasingly owned either by AOL Time Warner or by FoxTel, so there's only the sponsored politically correct coverage available.

I bet that stuff you say about Cuba is correct though, I don't know much about Cuba, but i heard that the US has used all the economic power that it can to make life worse for Cuba, just because it wouldn't toe the line, like a good lapdog.
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Calum

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Microsoft products in Cuba
« Reply #53 on: 7 June 2002, 15:31 »
quote:
Originally posted by alied_perez:
In fact, you did.
What do you think Cuba is!? A bunch of indians!!??

Hey! watch what you say about indians! what do you think they are? a bunch of Cubans?  :D
 
quote:
Every president promesses that he Will defeat the comunism in Cuba,
I think this is completely shameful, how dare the leader of one country promise that he will destroy the regime of another country? He should be working with the leadership of other countries instead of crushing them.

Sanctions (like the US vs Cuba) and bombing (like the US vs Afghanistan) only harms the people, not the regime, so neither should be done. Do the US think Cuba will cooperate when the US is being as cruel as possible to Cuba's people?

As you say, Perez, it is all about votes, not change.
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Nobber

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Microsoft products in Cuba
« Reply #54 on: 7 June 2002, 20:11 »
The only good reason I've ever heard for not dropping the sanctions against Cuba is that, at the moment, Cuba is unspoilt by American cultural imperialism - e.g. no McDonald's in Havana - and wouldn't it be nice if it stayed that way?

I could almost be convinced!  :D  

Now, the sanctions against Iraq, on the other hand, are another matter entirely...
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Chooco

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Microsoft products in Cuba
« Reply #55 on: 9 June 2002, 21:53 »
US should just sanction all of the middle east, they hate the US anyway so they can gobble a d***  

SpeeDFreaK

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Microsoft products in Cuba
« Reply #56 on: 9 June 2002, 10:21 »
Well, it's not exactly as if we have tried to be their friends...
"George Bush says 'we are losing the war on drugs'. Well you know what that implies? There's a war going on, and people on drugs are winning it! Well what does that tell you about drugs? Some smart, creative motherfuckers on that side."  --Bill Hicks

Chooco

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Microsoft products in Cuba
« Reply #57 on: 9 June 2002, 12:55 »
well you have a point there......the US almost tried to be the enemy with all the stuff about getting involved in their governments such as helping Saddam Hussein and Muammar Kadafi into power then supporting a war between Iran and Iraq.....

but still, sanction!!! *waves little American flag*  

TheQuirk

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Microsoft products in Cuba
« Reply #58 on: 10 June 2002, 06:53 »
I lived in Russia and Israel (and now the US) and it wouldn't be very nice to destroy the Middle East >=[. Visit Israel when all of this bull shit is over (soon, hopefully) it's a pretty neat place, expecially Tel-Aviv and Jerusalim..

Chooco

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Microsoft products in Cuba
« Reply #59 on: 10 June 2002, 21:18 »
it seems like a nice place with all the beaches and stuff. well don't sanction Israel i guess, they have atually decided to become quaint with tecnhology of the 1900s unlike the other countries such as places like Egypt, Iran, Iraq and Jordan which are living 200 years in the past.

[ June 10, 2002: Message edited by: Chooco ]