Author Topic: Socialist or immature  (Read 4066 times)

billy_gates

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Socialist or immature
« Reply #60 on: 25 March 2003, 04:58 »
you think the rich people got rich by spending all of their money.  Maybe this is a message to people in debt.

And rich people do spend money, more than poor people do, just not a greater percent.  They buy their ferraries and boats and aircraft carriers. They buy big houses which has a super direct impact on the uneducated.  Not only does it give lots of construction workers jobs, it also makes all of the houses around that house worth more.  I'm sure you've heard of the trickle down effect.  When Rich people get more money, they spend it, they have no reason to save it.  When they spend it, it goes to the poor people who work, not the poor people who don't work.  See, the richers tax money goes to people that don't work and live for free.

slave

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« Reply #61 on: 25 March 2003, 06:37 »
Ya I'm sure all the workers who built Bill Gates' gigantic house got paid real well.  I've got a better idea: eliminate this system of exploitation that lets people get "rich" in the first place.

And as for people on welfare, they don't do so well.  I live in a very poor rural neighborhood on a dirt road and most of the people around live in little shacks and don't work because they have no freakin' education, and no motivation.  Nobody cares about them, just enough to give them some food stamps so they won't starve to death.  Of course they never spend food stamps on condoms and keep having more kids, who also end up losers, sitting on the front porch evey morning in rags drinking beer for breakfast.  I imagine a country where social engineering would make such a class of people obsolete.

zoolooo

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« Reply #62 on: 25 March 2003, 16:10 »
quote:
Originally posted by Billy Gates: Mac Comrade Captain:
I'm sure you've heard of the trickle down effect.


Yes, and I hear it doesn't work.  If you have examples of where "trickle down" is effective please give them.  You won't because you can't

Why not "trickle up"?

BTW.  Capitalists... how much is your capital and how did you get it?

zooloo

billy_gates

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« Reply #63 on: 27 March 2003, 06:40 »
quote:
Originally posted by Linux User #5225982375:
And as for people on welfare, they don't do so well.  I live in a very poor rural neighborhood on a dirt road and most of the people around live in little shacks and don't work because they have no freakin' education, and no motivation.  Nobody cares about them, just enough to give them some food stamps so they won't starve to death.  Of course they never spend food stamps on condoms and keep having more kids, who also end up losers, sitting on the front porch evey morning in rags drinking beer for breakfast.  I imagine a country where social engineering would make such a class of people obsolete.


That is the exact reason I don't support welfare, they should be allowed to starve to death if they don't work.

I also hate the idea of not letting people get rich.  being rich is something people work for.  Most don't achieve it, but for the few who do, bravo, I aspire to become rich like you.  Even if I have to knock a couple people out of the way, they should have done it to me first.  Even if I lived in a socialist society I would slow everyone down to make me look better.  I think many others would say the same.  You guys here are a minority, people would be stepping all over you because of your "big hearts and want for free stuff" but don't you see, you want to hurt others, you want to take all rich people's riches away.  That is hurting someone just as bad as a rich person screwing some poor person over.  The rich person worked for his or her money, even if they did it in an unfair way.  Luck was on their side.

 
quote:
Yes, and I hear it doesn't work.


Well lets look at it from a rich person point of view. (when I say I, I am referring to a rich person, not to myself)

I make $500,000 a year.  The government takes 40% away, that leaves me with $300,000.  Now they raise taces to 50%, I know only have $250,000 to play around with.  I'm just gonna take a pay cut because I am a nice person and my laborers are hard working.  Fuck No.  I now have 3 choices.  Raise Product Price to the consumer.  Cut spending (Layoffs.)  Or squeeze more time out of them (longer hours, less pay, less vacation, etc.)  Raising prices is the easiest but we lose competitive advantage.  Squeezing doesn't always work and is very difficult.  That leaves me with Layoffs.  There is something easy.  Fire $50,000 worth of people and machinery.  Perfect.  While I'm at it, why not take add a little extra to my wallet.

That is how the trickle down works.

[ March 26, 2003: Message edited by: Billy Gates: Mac Comrade Captain ]


slave

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« Reply #64 on: 27 March 2003, 06:52 »
Here's some RMS quotes that I think are kind of relavent to this discussion:

"We like to think that our society encourages helping your neighbor; but each time we reward someone for obstructionism, or admire them for the wealth they have gained in this way, we are sending the opposite message.


Software hoarding is one form of our general willingness to disregard the welfare of society for personal gain. We can trace this disregard from Ronald Reagan to Jim Bakker, from Ivan Boesky to Exxon, from failing banks to failing schools. We can measure it with the size of the homeless population and the prison population. The antisocial spirit feeds on itself, because the more we see that other people will not help us, the more it seems futile to help them. Thus society decays into a jungle.


If we don't want to live in a jungle, we must change our attitudes. We must start sending the message that a good citizen is one who cooperates when appropriate, not one who is successful at taking from others. I hope that the free software movement will contribute to this: at least in one area, we will replace the jungle with a more efficient system which encourages and runs on voluntary cooperation."

[ March 26, 2003: Message edited by: Linux User #5225982375 ]


billy_gates

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« Reply #65 on: 27 March 2003, 07:37 »
quote:
Originally posted by Linux User #5225982375:
Here's some RMS quotes that I think are kind of relavent to this discussion:

"We like to think that our society encourages helping your neighbor; but each time we reward someone for obstructionism, or admire them for the wealth they have gained in this way, we are sending the opposite message.


Software hoarding is one form of our general willingness to disregard the welfare of society for personal gain. We can trace this disregard from Ronald Reagan to Jim Bakker, from Ivan Boesky to Exxon, from failing banks to failing schools. We can measure it with the size of the homeless population and the prison population. The antisocial spirit feeds on itself, because the more we see that other people will not help us, the more it seems futile to help them. Thus society decays into a jungle.


If we don't want to live in a jungle, we must change our attitudes. We must start sending the message that a good citizen is one who cooperates when appropriate, not one who is successful at taking from others. I hope that the free software movement will contribute to this: at least in one area, we will replace the jungle with a more efficient system which encourages and runs on voluntary cooperation."

[ March 26, 2003: Message edited by: Linux User #5225982375 ]



I want to hear what that means to you.

To me it means that people aren't very good at taking advantage of one another and should improve or face poverty.

zoolooo

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« Reply #66 on: 27 March 2003, 16:42 »
Billy Gates: Mac Comrade Captain,

In the spirit that this thread started...

"You are immature, grow up."

 :D  

comrade zooloo

billy_gates

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Socialist or immature
« Reply #67 on: 28 March 2003, 03:29 »
quote:
Originally posted by zoolooo:
Billy Gates: Mac Comrade Captain,

In the spirit that this thread started...

"You are immature, grow up."

  :D  

comrade zooloo



Of course I am, I'm 16.  I have much Growing and maturing to do.  In the meantime I think my arguments make some sense, but I can see that this post is practically dead now.

publiknotice

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Re: Socialist or immature
« Reply #68 on: 20 February 2006, 18:53 »
Know u just don't want to live in a homoginzed world where there is no option and a big greedy company wants to own and run anything that slightly threatens their shareholders profits.

If we learnt anything from the 1980's its don't allow 1 company to have to much control of any media distribution network.
 
I am sure that Rupert murdoch and bill gates can have their secret orgys without threat of being touched whilst weilding far to much power.
but people are clocking on, and unless you get rid of the 'net nutrallity' (maybe by threating senators and politicians with bad press exposure via (sly) fox or MSNBC unless they get rid of the net nutrallity law! - no shit it could happen.
Anyone who has seen aol's new marketing ploy would be forgiven for thinking that a terrorist pedo are about to jump through their screen any second -NOT TRUE! (all add more to this when there is time).
Anyway, good to see the whole world isn't a bunch of lemmings, there IS hope!

Lead Head

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Re: Socialist or immature
« Reply #69 on: 20 February 2006, 19:01 »
Holy mother thread resurection!
sig.

adiment

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Re: Socialist or immature
« Reply #70 on: 20 February 2006, 19:06 »
wow...this thread actually makes this forum look like it had members!


what happend?

cymon

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Re: Socialist or immature
« Reply #71 on: 20 February 2006, 19:13 »
But one issue to a communist society is the overall negative view of communism by the People. Whenever someone says communism, there's an automatic knee jerk reaction that Communism is evil, just because of countries like the Soviet Union and China. They're about as communist as Bill Gates, just because true Communism requires that everyone is equal. If anything, a communist state would be democratic; because, if everyone is equal, then why shouldn't they be represented equally? A dictatorship is the complete opposite of Communism.

One of the biggest issues to a Communist USA is the whole 'American Dream.' America is a society that takes glamour and wealth as a drug. The whole American dream of a big house, nice car, and a family conficts with the communist principles of equality.

H_TeXMeX_H

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Re: Socialist or immature
« Reply #72 on: 20 February 2006, 20:43 »
Communism is the opression of the poor and middle-class by a rich group of cock-suckers who take everything away from the people and give it to the state a.k.a themselves !!! ... then when the revolution comes they run off with the money and leave the country bankrupt and broken ... case in point: all communist regimes that were ever established !

You might be thinking ... no it's ruled by normal people, not by rich cocksuckers, well you are WRONG ... they put up some poor fool as a facade for their 'for the people' campaign ... just so he takes the blame when the revolution comes. They are the puppetmasters, they always were and always will be ... the rich cocksuckers !

Communism is bullshit ... even more so than Capitalism ... we need a new fucking system !

piratePenguin

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Re: Socialist or immature
« Reply #73 on: 20 February 2006, 20:52 »
Quote from: H_TeXMeX_H
Communism is the opression of the poor and middle-class by a rich group of cock-suckers who take everything away from the people and give it to the state a.k.a themselves !!! ... then when the revolution comes they run off with the money and leave the country bankrupt and broken ... case in point: all communist regimes that were ever established !
If that's the case, then they're not communists.

Communism does indeed suck when the leaders aren't communist. Capitalism sucks when the leaders are capitalist.
Quote
we need a new fucking system !
Any suggestions?
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H_TeXMeX_H

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Re: Socialist or immature
« Reply #74 on: 20 February 2006, 21:00 »
An anti-cheat system ... where rich cocksuckers cannot exist. Basically some system that does not try to make all people equal like Communism, but prevents people from cheating (Bill Gates is a perfect example of a cheater). That way a natural balance is established, rather than forcing people to give up their possesions in order to equate them.

So basically eliminate all possibilities of exploitation and monopolization or even oligopolization. Similar to Communism in that all people will be equal (possesion and money-wise), but removing the ruling class, and preventing people from becoming too rich and powerful ... this includes everyone. Maybe some type of multi-council sytstem, where power is divided among many regional councils, who make decisions for their region. Once in a while elected members of each council meet to decide on the national level. All governmental meetings anywhere must be televised, unedited to the public.

Taxes should be applied exponentially based on income, with absolutely no way to bypass them. The richer you are the more taxes you pay (a lot more). 50 % of all tax income will be re-distributed to the public in a reverse exponential curve ... poor getting most ... rich least. Everyone is requred to work, as slackers would really fuck up the system.

Unlike Communism, you are allowed out of the state, not a prisoner.